judy: good evening, i am judy woodruff. on the newshour, the ongoing war. cornered ukrainian soldiers in mariupol make a desperate last stand against russian troops as the exodus of civilians continues. then, decoding putin. one of his most prominent critics discusses his motives and unwavering desire to maintain his grip on power. and a fuel for the future. major advancements in hydrogen power offer a possible alternative to fossil fuels in the fight against climate change. >> the good news for hydrogen batteries is the technology

exists. this is an engineering exercise. judy: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- ♪ >> moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> cfo, caregiver, eclipse chaser.

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more information at macfound.org. and with the ongoing support of these institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. judy: russia intensified its onslaught across easter ukraine, raining a barrage of artillery and airstrikes that marks a new stage of the war. ukraian officials are calling at the battle of theawn voss. in mariupol, the last ukrainian forces remain trapped and under intense fire from a massive plant. kyiv says it is ready to negotiate with russia over the fate of the city without conditions. amna: from inside mariupol, a plea for help. >> this could be the last plea

of our lives. we are probably facing our last days, if not hours. amna: ukrainian commanders speaking from the steel plant one of the city's last strongholds. >> we appeal to all world leaders to help us. we ask them to use extraction and take us to the territory of a third party state. amna: today, another russian ultimatum to surrender expired. smoke billowed from the plant today, where ukraine says more than 500 soldiers were wounded and 1000 civilians are sheltering. the city's plans to evacuate civilians were stalled after ukraine accused russia of failing to observe a cease-fire. the lucky few who boarded buses to leave the city described weeks of horror and finally relief. >> we need a break after the shelling, the nightmare. we have been hiding for 30 days.

amna: the deputy mayor warned not to trust moscow when it came to humanitarian support. >> do not believe any words from ia. amna: u.s. officials say russian forces continue to press across eastern ukraine. russian troops are advancing south into the donbass region. moscow continues to strike front-line cities, stretching far west. the u.s. says russia's next stage is conventional warfare in the donbass, away from rural spaces and into urban terrain. president putin says russia launched a new intercontinental ballistic missile, something he said his enemies wouldn't be able to match. also today add a kremlin event, the russian president delivered

a contradictory message of peace for eastern ukraine. >> the tragedy happening and donbass forced russia to start this military operation everyone knows about now. the goal is to help people living in donbass. amna: for the people of donbass, this is the reality of putin's war. a journalist filmed the remnants of a school hit by russian missiles. for weeks it has been under deadly attack. now it is nearly empty. those who chose to stay brave daily attacks. this person volunteers at a charity to supply many of the elderly residents with food. >> we are not prepared for them to attack or invasion. we can't go away and i don't want to. we are not prepared for an attack. amna: president zelenskyy

overnight made another call for arms and said history will judge russia's more. >> the russia army is writing itself into history as the most barbaric and inhumane in the world. amna: the u.n. reports 5 million people have left ukraine since the invasion began with more than 2.8 million first fleeing to poland. victoria is one of them. from her refugee camp, she shows pictures of her home, unclear when she will ever return. >> we all have the feeling there is nowhere to go, nowhere to run. that is very scary. amna: in the east, soldiers wounded on the front line sought treatment. sirens a constant reminder of war, but alexander is fixed on what is ahead. >> i think in the near future everything will be fine. amna: as the united states and

nato ramp up billions in military aid, there are risks, namely russia's military reaction. we turn to john manzano. he had a career in the u.s. marine corps and served as senior positions in the nato headquarters. he is currently a professor at the national defense university. welcome to the newshour. thank you for making the time. the russian invasion began on february 24. they failed to capture kyiv quickly, moved to strikes across the country. we are moving into two months and a new phase of war. what should we expect to see? >> it shows the russians, who often perform poorly at the beginning of military campaigns, are able to learn lessons. instead of having five axes,

they have consolidated their forces under the command of general devorah nick of, a ruthless commander and veteran of the syrian intervention by russia. they have stabilized their lines. they have brought their forces online in territory that is fit for a and mechanized warfare. they are not going to take the risk they did early with small units moving independently across the country who are subject to attack by ukrainian light forces. amna: some folks say this will look more like a world war ii, higher casualties. do you agree? >> i think the russians may be will suffer fewer casualties during this phase. i'm sure there is direction from

high in the russian command to use firepower to their advantage, so i think what the russians will do, like world war ii, is move methodicallynd when they meet resistance, they will use artillery and mortars and close air support to overwhelm the ukrainians. amna: let me ask about the u.s. military support. recent shipments include heavier rapidly -- heavier weaponry. is the u.s. and our nato countries providing everything ukraine needs to match russia in this new phase? >> that's tough because what they need and want are different than what the united states and other allies are willing to provide. the white house is playing this very well. they are carefully walking a

line where they are providing weapons to the ukrainians so they can defend themselves and inflict maximum pain on the russian forces. they don't want to cross that line with putin. you mentioned his statements today telling the unitedtates to think twice about providing the ukrainians with weapons. the intercontinental ballistic missile that putin launched signals a danger. the white house i believe is walking allies up to that line carefully, but putin is not a rational actor so it is difficult to determine where that line ends. amna: if you look at the map, you know weapons are going in from the western part of the country, but they have to make their way across ukraine to the

east. what worries you about that movement? >> it's a long logistics line and the russians will seek to interdict that line. i am concerned they will strike the logistics line and some strikes will move close to the border, especially with poland. it wouldn't take much to imagine a missile or bomb from an aircraft that goes errant and lands in polish territory. this is a dangerous part of the war with that equipment. it's also going to be difficult as the russians suffered with long lines of logistics, the ukrainians will suffer with long lines of logistics. moving tens of thousands of artillery rounds, or the fuel

required, that in itself a massive challenge. amna: is there any concern about those weapons as they move, potentially falling into the wrong hands? >> this is a concern of mine, that these shoulder fired antiaircraft missiles and antitank weapons systems, they are extremely effective, very lethal, and i'm sure the united states has strong protocols to track those weapons and prevent them falling into the wrong hands. on the battlefield, it's unpredictable. i worry about ukrainian unit being overrun and weapons being captured by russians and ending up somewhere else in the hands of some warlord or terrorist. it is a concern and i'm sure the

united states is doing everything possible. you have to remember who gave the buja hadid similar weapons during the 1980's and that was carefully controlled. amna: thank you so much for your time. >> my pleasure. judy: a wildfire in arizona is growing rapidly, nearly tripling overnight, and forcing the evacuation of more than 750 homes and 1000 animals. the fire is on the outskirts of flagstaff. winds pushed flames as high as 100 feet, burning grass, shrubs, and pine trees in its path.

the weather improved today, but stronger winds are expected to return tomorrow. workplace safety regulators in new mexico have fined the "rust" film production company nearly $140,000 over firearms safety violations on the set. in october, actor alec baldwin pointed a prop gun that unexpectedly went off, killing the film's cinematographer halyna hutchins. an investigation found that the film company ignored multiple safety lapses, including two rifle misfires in the days before the incident. inquiries into possible criminal charges are still ongoing. china has allowed 4 million more people to leave their homes in shanghai today, as the city continues to ease its covid-19 lockdown. now about half of the city's 25 million people are able to venture outside. but a shanghai health official today said some neighborhoods are still under lockdown to help slow the spread of the virus.

>> [translated] the closed off management areas should strictly abide by the requirements on home quarantine, carry out environmental disinfection and ventilation. in those areas, people who need to go out for things like medical treatment should report to the communities and then take specially arranged vehicles to the destinations. judy: meanwhile, the international monetary fund has lowered its forecast for china's economic growth this year from 4.8% to 4.4%. that's due to the covid lockdowns. and this late news -- the u.s. centers for disease control and prevention said today it asked the justice department to appeal a federal judge's ruling declaring the transportation mask mandate is unlawful. sri lanka's president today promised an impartial investigation into police clashes with protesters that killed one person yesterday. it came amid weeks of demonstrations over the asian nation's worst economic crisis

in decades. thousands of protesters filled the streets again today. some used vehicles to block key roads. they demonstrated against the government and yesterday's shooting. two underground methane explosions at a coal mine in poland have killed at least five people and injured more than 20. seven people are still missing. some of the wounded were taken to a nearby hospital for life-threatening injuries. the incident comes as poland is trying to wean itself off of russian energy sources in response to the ukraine invasion. back in this country, sales of previously owned homes are slowing down amid record-high prices and a rise in mortgage rates. the national association of realtors reported existing home sles fell 2.7% from february to march. that's the slowest pace since june of 2020. meanwhile, the median home price is up 15% from a year ago to a

record $375,300. and stocks were mixed on wall street today, after another choppy day of trading. the dow jones industrial average gained 249 points to close at 35,161. the nasdaq fell 166 points. the s&p 500 slipped three. still to come on the newshour, john kerry discusses the intersection of global finance and climate change. we examine former president trump's role in last year's capitol insurrection as the investigation continues. new jersey becomes the latest state to legalize marijuana as the issue remains deadlocked in congress. plus, much more. >> this is the pbs, from w eta studios in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite

school of journalism at arizona state university. judy: the biden administration announced steps it is taking to crackdown on russia for you baiting sanctions by cracking down on a russian bank, a cryptocurrency mining company and an oligarch named konstantin malofeyev. all this is another reminder of the criminal lengths vladimir putin has gone to over the years to outlast his enemies. in a new book, bill browder, who invested heavily in russia until he watched putin amass a vast fortune and eliminate, literally, his adversaries, describes in detail how putin operates. i's titled "freezing order: a true story of money laundering, murder, and surviving vladimir putin's wrath." i spoke with browder a short time ago. thanks for joining us. the term freezing order, what does that refer to? >> it refers to freezing the

assets that belong to somebody who has obtained them through criminal means. that's one of the tools we used to go after people who profited from sergei magnitsky's murder and people in the putin regime. judy: what is so gripping is it is one close call after another. you have moments that have to be seared into your memory. >> i was going to spain to meet with the chief anti-corruption prosecutor because we found money connected to sergei magnitsky going to spanish properties. he wanted me to give formal evidence. on the day of my meeting with the prosecutor, walking out of my hotel room, there are two spanish police officers there to arrest me on a russian interpol warrant. one branch wants me to give evidence, another branch wants to arrest me on behalf of the russians i am giving evidence against.

it was shocking. i tweeted out the whole incident as it was happening. by the time i got to the police station, there had been 50 calls to interpol and the spanish interior ministry. if they had sent me back to russia, i would have been killed. that's how much putin hates me. judy: when you first went to russia, this was in late 1990's, putin was coming into power and you were close to him for a few years before he started to turn on some very powerful business people. what was it about him initially that made you think he could be good for russia? >> he came in to replace a man named boris yeltsin. boris yeltsin was the original president after the fall of the soviet union. boris yeltsin was a crazy guy,

sort of drunk, and he allowed the oligarchs, these 22 oligarchs, to steal 40% of the country. the rest of the russians were living in destitute property. i and everybody else in the country were desperate for somebody to restore order. putin presents himself as a modern technocrat. he wasn't drunk, he was slim, he spoke english. he remembered things from meeting to meeting. for the first couple of years, he behaved kind of like a boring technocrat, no personal charisma at all, and we thought he was going to be getting rid of the oligarchs. it turned out he wasn't interested in getting rid of the oligarchs, he wanted to become the biggest oligarch himself. there is an expression that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and

that was the story of putin. he became immensely corrupt and powerful and it got worse and worse until 22 years later, he is the richest man in the world, has a net worth north of $200 billion, and doesn't care about anything, including invading foreign countries and killing tens of thousands of civilians. judy: explain in a nutshell, how does vladimir putin hold onto the power he has? you've described corruption, spoken about the threats, but how does it work? >> it's very simple. he pretends there is a democracy, but anybody who wants to become a challenger to him gets killed. a man named boris numb solve gets imprisoned. alexei navalny. there is no competition.

anybod who wants to run against him looks at these examples and says, i don't want to do that. if he is ever starting to worry about the people in russia getting tired of him, he starts a war. this is the third ward. one was in jordan in 2008, one in crimea 2013. every time he starts a war, his approval ratings rise, almost automatic. that's how he stays in power. judy: given what you know about him, what do you believe he wants now? the ukrainians have put up much fiercer resistance than the russians expected, by all accounts. how long do you think he is going to continue to push to try to take over ukraine? >> he is never going to stop. vladimir putin is in this war to be in this war.

he doesn't care about ukraine per se. he cares about having a foreign enemy. he cares about the people in russia rallying against the foreign enemy and around him. he doesn't want to be in a losing war, and he is losing based on the things the ukrainians are doing. there is only one thing to do, become more brutal, kill more civilians, and create more heartbreak because that's his modus operandi. judy: where do you see this war going? >> three outcomes. the ukrainians win, the best outcome, not a high probability. another outcome is that putin wins, somehow gets ukraine, in which case he will be at the baltic border, estonia, lithuania, maybe poland, challenging us with nato. i wouldn't put that at a very high probability because the ukrainians are doing a good job.

the most likely scenario, 70%, is this carries on and on in the most heartbreaking way. judy: the book is "freezing order: a true story of money laundering, murder, and surviving vladimir putin's wrath." thank you, we appreciate it. let's turn to the challenge of climate change and energy sources. our science correspondent miles o'brien is asking, can alternative energy sources really help? >miles:t's a toyota m.r.i. fille -- fuel-celvehicle. jack is director of the national fuel-cell research center at the university of california irvine. he is convinced a future that runs on hydrogen like this car

is finally around the corner. how's the performance? >> it's nice. you can design a fuel-cell engine just as fast as any battery engine. miles: a fuel cell generates electricity by relying on the attraction between hydrogen and oxygen molecules. a membrane allows positive hydrogen particles to pass through to oxygen supplied from ambient air. the negative particles are sent on a detour, creating a flow of electrons, electricity to power the motor. after the work is done, all those particles reunite to make water, which is the only tailpipe emission on these vehicles. >> the main benefit is you can go farther, and hydrogen is light, so you can put a lot of hydrogen on board. miles: until now, fuel cells have had a bumpy, sporadic right. first imagined in 1839, they

finally moved into a real-world application in the 1960's when nasa developed them as a wayo generate electricity on apollo spacecraft. 40 years later, president george w. bush pledged more than $1 million in federal funding to spur widespread adoption of fuel-cell cars. >> our scientists will overcome obstacles to taking these cars from left laboratory so that the first car driven by a child born today could be powered by hydrogen and pollution free. miles: when people looked under the hood, they were less impressed. after all, most hydrogen is produced with methane, so there really was nothing climate friendly about hydrogen. >> you could say it was greenwashing. >> i would agree. it tainted hydrogen a bit as

something that enables fossil to keep going. miles: they never stopped going here and now are drawing renewed atteion and funding. the reason, cheap and increasingly plentiful wind and solar generation make it possible to employ renewable electricity to split water molecules, making hydrogen carbon free, so-called green hydrogen. is there currently a hydrogen renaissance? >> absolutely. almost all jurisdictions that have objectively considered, how do we achieve zero emissionin all and uses, they have realized hydrogen is required for making all those sectors zero emission. miles: required because batteries alone will not get us there. planes, trains, ships, and trucks need less weight and longer-range then batteries will likely ever provide. at the port of los angeles, toyo is road testing fuel-cell

powered trucks. veteran driver danny gamboa gave me a spin. he has been evaluating hydrogen fuel cell trucks for the past five years. >> this truck is different. it is a lot quieter, has a lot more tore and power, and doesn't pollute. the only thing coming out of the tailpipe is water. miles: four gamboa, this project is personal. on an average day, 16,000 trucks haul water out of the port of los angeles. he and his family lived nearby and all his kids have asthma. >> children have the burden of the truck emissions and get very little help. if i can push the needle, i'm going to do it. miles: toyota made its first big bet on hydrogen vehicles 30 years ago. >> this is a fuel-cell garage.

we take a look at the vehicle on a deep level. miles: craig scott is the general manager of toyota's fuel-cell solutions group in gardena, california. >> the good news is the technology exists. this is not a fundamentals of physics problem, this is an engineering exercise and development of resources and bringing scale. when you are moving from the income bit that's been around hundreds of years, there are costs. miles: california provides incentives. jack brower took me to one of the 45 hydrogen filling stations in the state. hydrogen is energy dense but also the lightest element on the periodic table, so it must be highly compressed or liquefied to be distributed. >> it will always be more expensive than gasoline to move around. that's why infrastructure is key.

if we can have these built and make a bunch of liquid hydrogen and deliver it this way, it will become less expensive. miles: getting to that point is driving a lot of work at the renewable energy laboratory in golden, colorado. the bipartisan infrastructure bill includes $9.5 billion in federal funding for hydrogen technology development. the department of energy an effort to seed the market with hydrogen distribution hubs across the country. >> to get to a national hydrogen network, government incentives and partnership are critical. this is the energy systems integration facility. miles: mechanical engineer keith wiki runs the fuel-cell and hydrogen technology laboratory. what are you working on that's going to make this happen? >> the number one goal is to make hydrogen cost less to produce. there is a goal to get down to

one dollar per kilogram in one decade. solar and wind took 30, 40 years to get to where they are now. miles: they are refining every aspect of hydrogen production. here they are testing new techniques to improve the performance of devices called electrolyzers that can pull hydrogen out of water. >> how do you do that with the least electricity possible? miles: they are building an extensive wind and solar farm to power hydrogen electrolysis. hydrogen can be used for grade level energy storage, providing power when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining. hydrogen can enable them to all renewable grid. >> absolutely. hydrogen can enable a huge penetration of renewables and not needing the power plants using combustion today. miles: hydrogen is again seeing

a moment in the sun. this time the technology and urgency may spark a more positive reaction. for the pbs newshour, i am miles o'brien at the port of los angeles. judy: staying with climate change, i spoke earlier today to john kerry, president biden's special envoy for climate, at an event sponsored by the center r global development. here are some edited excerpts from our wide-ranging conversation. i asked whether he still believes congress will arove more money to help poorer countries adapt to climate change, given the political divisions and high oil prices. >> i have hopes that still congress can pass climate legislation, and i know folks are talking even now in these next days, and i remain hopeful

we can get a climate bill. it is hard to fathom that the senate i served in for 28 years, when we used to deal with each other on a bipartisan basis to get things done, that now they are a group of people that don't accept the science that is settled and we are not able to move forward. every economic analysis that has been peer-reviewed over the last 15, 20 years documents that it is far more expensive to not respond to climate. if we respo, we can win this battle. we can create millions of jobs around the planet. we can have cleaner air. we are talking about reducing pollution.

methane is pollution, co2 is pollution. 10 million people a year die from this pollution, yet we are increasing at. if you want a definition of insanity, it is the behavior the world is falling into a not responding to this crisis. we can have a healthier, cleaner, more secure planet if we do the things on the table to have clean energy. judy: it has been reported you told the white house national climate advisor that a new u.s. commitment on fossil fuels needed to be at least 50% reduction by 2030 four the u.s. to be a credible negotiator. is that still a goal? >> gina mccarthy didn't need me to suggest a level. she is very savvy and knows exactly what we needed to do. she did an incredible job

pulling all the efforts of the united states together to come up with a ballistic target. we did not want to put something phony out there. we wanted to know this was something we could reach. gina and her team all agreed that a 50% to 52% reduction was something we could achieve. it's realistic, more than a lot of otherountries. canada is not at that level, japan, others. but others are doing what they can. judy: you are saying the u.s. is on track for that 50% reduction? >> we were, i don't think we are at this instant because of ukraine and the additional production that needs to take place to deal with geopolitical economic realities. there has been a delay in implementation to some degree. the ipcc report a few weeks ago

made it clear that we still have the ability to achieve what we set out to do. it's a hard choice we have to make, which is how do we do this in a way that deals with the immediate needs of fulfillg power, transportation requirements but not something but out so long it is adding to the problem long-term. judy: you mentioned backsliding by others, given what's going on in ukraine, given the current political, economic environment. some of that backsliding has, on the part of the biden administration. new ethanol rules, the opening of many acres of federal lands for drilling. there are other decisions being made right now. how much of a setback is that inside your own administration? >> i don't think it's a setback

because i don't think a lot of it is going to produce -- oil companies have massive numbers of leases today. opening something to a lease and they buy the lease, that's not a well. that doesn't produce drilling. as i said, gas over the next few years, as long as you have a plan for capturing emissions as you go forward, that can be mitigated. there are a vast number of leases held by these companies and they are not drilling. this is a demand curve driven event and what you are going to see around the world is more and more technologies coming on line producg cleaner and less expensive fuels. solar and wind are less expensive than coal or oil or gas, they just are. i think people are going to make choices based on economics.

i don't think it's going to amount to a setback in the long-term. the president needs to stabilize economies. the world needs to have stabilized economies. unfortunately that requires a temporary effort to make sure there is enough supply of fuel, enough supply of the essential ingredients of that economy, that you stabilize and are not pricing everybody out of the market. if you price everybody out, you are going to have either an implosion economically or a revolution as people rebelled against prices they are not able to pay. there are some realities you have to enter into. i don't think the president has walked -- has blocked that one iota. he has reluctantly had to make some tough decisions. ultimately this will smooth out. judy: sec. john kerry, who has been working on these issues for

a number of years, now the u.s. special representative, presidential envoy for climate change. thank you very much. the effort to understd how the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol last year happened is a question congress, reporters and the american people have been confronted with for the past 15 months. lisa desjardins is here with a new look. lisa: radicalized extremist groups. law enforcement bowing to pressure. and the encouraging words of president trump himself. it's all part of a new podcast called "will be wild" that explores the leadup to the january 6 attack. andrea bernstine is an investigative journalist who covers trump's legal troubles for npr and is the cohost of the challenge. the name of your podcast is a reference to something president

trump wrote in a tweet before the january 6 rally, prepping people for it. he wrote, it will be wild. i want to ask at you learned about president trump's role or influence on what happened on january 6. andrea: at this point it's not just what we found. a federal judge ruled the former more likely than not committed a crime in the run-up to january 6. we wanted to take a long look not only at the trump administration but at the years prior and we found a trend both of radicalization and the government turning away from white supremacist violence that was accelerated during the trump years. both the radicalization of people from the country and also the hollowing out of federal law enforcement agencies designed to protect against domestic terrorism.

as a journalist, i covered september 11 and its aftermath and was completely baffled by january 6. how could there be a whole federal agency set up to prevent this kind of attack that didn't work? what we found as we began to look as there had been a churn at the department of security. there had been six secretaries or acting secretaries, people in and out of important positions. people who tried to confront domestic terrorism were told by the white house, do not do that. when president trump's sent that tweet and thousands of supporters came to washington, it was like pushing over the barricades with a feather because the reinforcements supposed to defend democracy had been weakened by four years of president trump. lisa: you spoke to different security analysts, fbi

officials, homeland security officials. one was a former department of homeland security analyst and he talked about what was going on inside the trump administration, the problems he saw. >> that administration mainstreamed some of the extremist narratives that i saw on kkk message boards and neo-nazi websites -- building a wall, banning muslims from the country, mass deportation of latino immigrants. this was the first time in the trending i looked at that these right wing extremist group thrived under a republican administration. lisa: can you help connect the dots on how our security apparatus missed this, this long look you are talking about? andrea: johnson is a very interesting person because he actually tried to warn, as far

back as the obama administration , that radicalization was taking place in the military and domestic terrorism was on the rise, and was somebody whose warnings were not heeded. during the trump administration, there were officials, for example elizabeth newman, who had worked in homeland security since bush, reluctantly came to the trump administration believing she could make things better. when she tried to raise the alarm and mobilize the country against the rise of domestic terrorism, she found constant pushback from the white house. what many experts we spoke to came to conclude was that the white house didn't want to fight white supremacist groups gathering because it saw those people as among the former president politicabase. the former president saw it in his interest to rile up these

groups. the disastrous consequences came together on january 6, when people died, more than 100 police officers were injured, people feared for their lives, the temple of democracy was deseated. we are still living with that, not just the consequences, but all the forces tt came into play, the radicalization and distrust in government. that's what we are trying to explore in the podcast, how these forces remain in play and what it means for upcoming elections, 2022 midterms and 2024 presidential race. lisa: among those forces, the thousands of trump supporters who were there on january 6. one you talked to was a woman named natalie of idaho. she didn't end up inside the capital but she told you

interesting things about why she went. she said it was because of her election doubts. >> it's like these feelings continue to compound, of frustration. we have the right to a free and fair election and it continued to become less free and fair. it got to a place of, what can i do to be part of a movement to represent how we are feeling? lisa: courts have ruled the election was free and fair. i want to ask you, what did you gather about what drove those people to the capitol that day and what they still believe today about that? andrea: this is one of the disturbing things we are dealing with. immediately after the election, as we know, former president trump said, frankly, i did win. his allies began to pump out

disinformation. we traced directly during the course of this podcast how people heard that and believed there was some civil war coming and they had to follow the suggestion of their commander-in-chief and go to washington to defend democracy, when in fact they were attacking democracy. that is one of the disturbing legacies, that millions of people still believe that. former president trump is still saying the results of the election were fraudulent and it is still a motivating force so that right now the majority of republicans do not believe joe biden is a legitimately elected president. that is not an interesting factoid, that is an active trend that will be confronting uss soon the elections in the fall. lisa: the podcast is will be wild. thank you for talking to us.

judy: tomorrow, new jersey will become the latest state to allow the sale of recreational marijuana to people over 21. it's one of 19 states where such sales are legal, or about to begin. but as william brangham reports, these states are legalizing cannabis, a substance that remains illegal under federal law. william: roughly 40% of americans now live in states where marijuana is legalbut because of the drug's federal status, cannabis businesses struggle with banking, and pay extremely high tax rates. so, will lawmakers here in washington address this divide? joining me now is natalie fertig, who covers marijuana licyit p f--co politi. new jersey is making this move, joining these other states.

the house has passed a bill that would legalize marijuana. what is it status and what would it do? natalie: technically it would decriminalize marijuana. it would make it federally legal to possess and use marijuana but would leave it up to the states if they want to legalize cannabis and allow people to produce, sell, and tax it. similar to ameri's alcohol laws. the bill would expunge some cannabis related records and create social equity programs that would give funding to people who want to get into the industry who have been disproportionately hurt i marijuana laws to this point. william: does this have any chance of passage? is the senate going to take it up? natalie: it is a complex question. we are sitting here in april 2022. this is something democrats talked about when they ran in 2020, and we don't have a lot of

congress left for the senate to work on it. senator schumer has said this is a priority but has also said he is not going to have a bill until just before the august recess. that leaves an even smaller amount of time for the senate to deal with something that is an incredibly complex problem to solve. william: there is another piece of legislation about banking that seems to have more bipartisan support. what would that do and how likely is it to pass? natalie: where decriminalization doesn't even have all democrats on board, the banking bill has republicans on board. the problem with the banking bill, which would let cannabis businesses access small business loans and get bank accounts, which currently because it is federally illegal, they can't do.

that bill has support from republicans but not all progressive democrats. senator schumer and cory booker have said, we don't want this bill to pass unless there are other elements incorporated that would help people who have been hurt by the war on drugs. there is this growing concept within the democratic party, especially progressive democrats , that came out of everything that happened in 2020 with george floyd and increased focus on criminal justice reform, that you can't allow people to make money off cannabis without helping people who have been put in jail previously for making money off cannabis. that is where this divide has come down to and is holding up the banking bill. william: if the federal government were to act cohesively on this and give states the green light, is there

a sense that more states would become like new jersey and jump on board? natalie: it'possible. there is definitely states that use federal illegality not to legalize. it's unclear whether they would just find another excuse or if there are truly lawmakers that are just waiting for the federal government to give them the green light. i think states will still have to deal with the same issues the federal government is dealing with and those issues tend to hold up cannabis legalization even in states that really wanted. we saw this in new york, which tried multiple times to legalize cannabis but the details held them back. i don't think we would see 15 states legalize weed the minute the federal laws changed. william: before states started to legalize, there was a lot of concern that teenagers are suddenly going to be using a lot of marijuana, that there are

going to be accidents because everyone is stoned and driving. is there evidence any of those fears have come to pass? natalie: that's a complex question because there is not great data.we have small points on each of those things from different states but in almost every circumstan, there is another data point or caveat that conflicts with the data. a lot of that is because cannabis is not federally legal. a lot of the data we need to understand the impact of cannabis on a national level would take the resources of the federal government to understand. while the guy has not fallen in, there are not tens of thousands of new teenagers, not six-year-olds smoking joints on the street corner. we don't really know the full extent of impact on the things you just mentioned, which is

unfortunate given it has been almost 10 years. william: thank you for being here. judy: very helpful to have that update. that's the newshour for tonight. i am judy woodruff. join us later tonight and tomorrow evening. please stay safe and we will see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- >> for 25 years, consumer cellular's goal has been to provide service that helps people communicate. we offer a variety of no contract plans. to visit more, visit consumercellular.tv. the ford foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions.

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