judy: good evening. on the newshour tonight, the ongoing war. cornered ukrainian soldiers in mariupol make a desperate last stand against the advance of russian troops as the exodus of civilians continues. then, decoding putin. one of the russian president's most prominent critics discusses his motiand his unwavering desire to maintain his grip on power. and a fuel for the future. major advancements in hydrogen power offer a possible alternative to fossil fuels in the fight against climate change. >> the good news, really, for both hydrogen and batteries is the technology exists. this is not a, you know, a fundamental of physics problem. this is an engineering exercise.

judy: all that and more on tonight's "pbs newshour." i♪ >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- ♪ >> moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf. the engine that connects us. >> cfo. caregiver. the clips chaser -- the clips

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and with the ongoing support of these institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting, and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. judy: russia intensified its onslaught across eastern ukraine today, raining a barrage of artillery and air strikes that marks a nestage of the war. ukrainian officials are now calling it "the battle of the donbas." in the besieged city of mariupol, the last ukrainian forc remain trapped and under intense fire at a massive steel plant. kyiv now says it's ready to hold negotiations with russia over the fate of the city, without conditions. amna: from inside mariupol, a

plea for help. >> this could be the last appeal of our lives. we are probably facing our last days, if not hours. amna: a ukrainian commander speaking from what he said was the azovstal steel plant, one of the besieged city's last strongholds. >> we appeal and plead to all world leaders to help us. we ask them to use the procedure of extraction and take us to the territory of a third party state. today, another russian ultimatum for these final ukrainian forces to surrender mariupol expired. plumes of smoke billowed from the plant today, where ukraine says more than 500 soldiers were wounded, and at least a thousand civilians are sheltering. and city plans to evacuate 6000 civilians were largely stalled after ukraine accused russia of failinto observe a ceasefire. the lucky few who boarded buses to leave the city described weeks of horror, and now relief. >> we need a break after the shelling, after all this

nightmare. we've been hiding in basements for 30 days. amna: deputy mayor sergei orlov warned not to trust moscow when it came to humanitarian support. >> me, personally, do not believe in any trust or any words from russia, and i'm absolutely sure they are not going to take their word. amna: u.s. officials say russian forces continue to press across eastern ukraine. russian troops are advancing south from izyum into the donbas region, near sloviansk and kramatorsk. moscow continues to strike frontline cities, stretchingar west to mykolaiv. the u.s. says russia's next stage is conventional warfare in the donbas, away from urban spaces and onto rural terrain, using tanks, artillery and planes. in moscow, president putin said russia test-launched a new intercontinental ballistic missile, something he said his enemies wouldn't be able to match. but also today, at a choreographed kremlin event for nonprofits, the russian president delivered a contradictory message of peace for eastern ukraine.

>> the tragedy that was happening in donbas, including the luhansk people's republic, forced russia to start this military operation everyone knows about now. first of all, the goal of this operation to help our people living in donbas. amna: but for the people of donbas, this is the reality of putin's war. in kramatorsk, a journalist filmed the remnants of a school hit by russian missiles - now reduced to scattered shrapnel. for weeks, kramatorsk has been under deadly attack. now it's nearly empty. those who chose to stay brave daily attacks to secure basic supplies. ella vinnikova volunteers at a charity to supply many of the remaining elderly residents with food. >> we are not prepared in any way for an attack or an invasion. we can't go away. actually, i don't want to go away. we are not prepared for an

attack. amna: president zelensky in his overnight address madenother call for arms, and said history will judge russia's war. >> the russian army in this war is writing itself into world history forever as the most barbaric and inhumane army in the world. amna: the u.n. reports more than 5 million people have left ukraine since the invasion began, with more than 2.8 million first fleeing to poland. viktoria is one of them. from her refugee camp, she shows pictures of her home in mariupol, unclear when she'll ever return. >> we cry, we all have the feeling that there is no home. there is no idea where to go, what to do, where to run. that is very scary." amna: but back in ukraine's east, soldiers wounded on the frontlines sought treatment in sloviansk. sirens outside a constant reminder of war, but alexander is firmly fixed on what's ahead. >> i think that in the near future -- and i came here only yesterday -- i think that in the near future everything will be

fine. amna: as the united states and nato ramp up billions of dollars in military aid to ukraine, there are risks to consider, mainly russia's military reaction. to examine that, we turn to john manza. he had a 20 year career in the u.s. marine corps, and then served in senior civilian positions at nato headquarters, most recently in charge of operations, a post he held until january. he's currently a professor at the national defense university. thank you for making the time. the invasion began on february 4. they failed to capture kyiv quickly. they moved to a series of strikes across the country. we are now in almost two months and a new phase of war. what should we expect? john: it shows that russians who often perform poorly at the beginning of military campaigns are able to learn lessons. what they have done, instead of having five axes of and typical

command-and-control, they have consolidated their forces under the command of their ruthless commander and veteran of the syrian intervention by russia. but they have stabilized their lines. they have brought their forces online in territory that is fit for tank and mechanized warfare. they are not going to take the risks they did early in their campaign with small units moving independently across the country who are subject to being attacked by ukrainian light forces. amna: in this new terrain, some folks say this will look more like world war ii, force on force, mass on mass, higher casualty. do you agree with that? john: i think the russians maybe will suffer fewer gaveled -- fewer casualties during this phase. i am sure there is command all the way up to putin to use

firepower to their advantage. i am sure but the russians will do is move methodically and when they meet resistance from the ukrainians, they will use artillery and mortars and close air support to really overwhelm the ukrainians in front of them. amna: let me ask you about the u.s. military support. the recent shipments include heavier weaponry, including tens of thousands of artillery rounds and armored personnel vehicles. are the u.s. and nato countries providing everything ukraine needs to match russia in this new phase? john: that is tough, because what they need and what they want are different than what the united states and other allies are willing to provide. the white house is playing this well. they are carefully walking the line where they are providing

weapons to the ukrainians so they can defend themselves and inflict maximum pain upon russian forces, but they do not want to cross that line with putin. you heard his statements today telling the united states to think twice about the use of -- for providing the ukrainns with weapons, and the icbm, the intercontinental ballistic missile, signals a danger. the white house is blocking up to that line carefully, but putin is not a rational actor, so it is difficult to determine where that line ends. amna: what about the movement of those weapons? you know they are coming in via the western part of the country, from allied nation territory, but they have to make their way all the way across ukraine to the east, where it is now needed in the donbas.

what worries you about that movement? john: it is obviously a long logistics line and the russians will seek to interdict that line. what i am most concerned about is the russians will strike that logistics line, and then some of the strikes will move close to the border, especially with poland. it would not take much imagination to imagine a missile or a bomb from an aircraft that goes errant and lands in polish territory. this is a dangerous part of the war with that equipment. it is also going to be difficult, as the russians suffered along the lines of logistics, the ukrainians will suffer with long lines of logistics. moving tens of thousands of artillery rounds, or the fuel required for trucks to pull the

artillery, that in itself is a massive challenge. amna: colonel, is there any concern about those weapons potentially falling into the wrong hands? colonel manza: this is a concern of mine, that the shoulder fired antiaircraft missiles and the antitank weapon systems that are shoulder fired are extremely effective, very gleeful, and i am sure the united states has very strong protocols -- very lethal, and i am sure the united states has very strong protocols in place to prevent the weapons from falling into the wrong hands. but on the battlefield, it is unpredictable. i worry about a ukrainian unit being overrun and those weapons captured by russians and ending up somewhere else in the world, in the hands of some warlord or terrorist. its a ccern, and i am sure the united states is doing

everything possible. you have to remember we gave out similar weapons during the 1980's and that was carefully controlled, so i am sure there are lessons there being a flight -- being applied. amna: john manza, thank you for your time. colonel manza: my pleasure. stephanie: i'm stephanie sy with newshour west. we will return to the full program after the latest headlines. the justice department is filing an appeal of a federal judge's ruling that declared the federal mask mandate on planes, trains, and travel hubs unlawful. the cdc says masking in transport corridors remains necessary to protect public health. overseas, china has allowed 4 million more people to leave their homes in shanghai today as

the city continues to ease its covid-19 lockdown. now about half of the city's 25 million people are able to venture outside, but a shanghai health official today said some neighborhoods are still restricted to help slow the spread of the virus. >> the clothes off management areas should stickley -- the closed off management areas should strictly abide by regulations. people who need to go out for things like medication should take specially arranged vehicles to the destinations. stephanie: israeli warplanes conducted a series of airstrikes in the central gaza strip. the airstrike follows the launch of a rocket fired into israel from gaza. there were no reports of immediate casualties or damage. sri lanka's president today promised and impartial investation into police clashes with protesters that killed one person yesterday, amid wks of demonstrations

over the asian nation's worst economic crisis in decades. thousands of protesters filled the streets again today, some using vehicles to block key roads. they demonstrated against the government and yesterday's shooting. two underground methane explosions at a coal mine in poland have killed at least five people and injured more than 20. seven people are still missing. some of the wounded were taken to a nearby hospital for life-threatening injuries. the incident comes as poland is trying to wean itself off russian energy sources in response to the ukraine invasion. the u.s. capitol was briefly evacuated tonight after a communication snafu led capitol police to identify an aircraft as a probable threat. the threat turned out to be members of the u.s. army golden knights who parachuted into nationals park romans later for a baseball game. nancy pelosi issued a statement blaming the federal aviation administration for causing unnecessary panic.

i wildfire in arizona is growing rapidly, nearly tripling in size overnight and forcing the evacuation of her than 750 -- more than 750 hos and thousands of animals. the evacuation zone is on the edge of flagstaff. when blew flames up to 100 feet. stronger winds are expected to return tomorrow. regulators in new mexico have issued maximum possible fine of nearly $137,000 against the "rest" -- "rust" film production over firearm safety violations. in october, alec baldwin pointed a pmpt gun that unexpectedly went off, killing cinematographer halyna hutchins. an investigation found the film company ignored multiple safety lapses, including two misfires in the days before the incident. a mississippi state prison was found to have violated inmates'' constitutional rights by failing

to address their mental health needs, including suicide prevention. the justice department found the present relied too much on prolonged solitary confinement. the investigation found the prison was understaffed, leading to homicides and suicides. still to come, john kerry discusses the intersection of global finance and climate change. we examined trump's role in last year's capitol insurrection as the investigation continues. new jersey becomes the latest state to legalize marijuana as the issue remains deadlocked in congress. and much more. >> this is the pbs newshour. from wbt a studios in washington, and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. judy: the biden administration announced steps it is taking to crack down on russia for evading

sanctions by targeting a russian bank, a cryptocurrency mining company, and an oligarch. all this is another reminder of the criminal lengths vladimir putin has gone to, over the years, to outlast his enemies. in a new book, bill browder, who invested heavily in russia, until he watched putin amass a vast fortune and eliminate, literally, his adversaries, describes in detail how putin operates. it's titled "freezing order: a true story of money laundering, murder, and surviving vladimir putin's wrath." i spoke with browder a short time ago. bill, thank you for joining us. the term freezing water, what does that refer to? bill: it refers to freezing the assets that belong to somebody who has attained them through criminal means. that was one of the tools we used to go after people who profited from people in the

putin regime. judy: in this book, there is one close call after another. there are moments that have to be seared into your memory. ll: i was in madrid am i going to meet with the chief anticorruption prosecutor there -- i was in madrid, going to spain to meet with the chief anticorruption prosecutor there. on the day of my meeting with the prosecutor, i am walking out of my hotel room and there are two spanish police officers standing outside my room who were there to arrest me on a russian interpol warrant. one branch of spanish law enforcement wants me to give evidence, another one wants to arrest me on behalf of the russians who i am being evidence against. it was shocking, and thankfully i tweeted out the whole incident as i was being arrested. by the time i got to the police station, there had been 50 calls

to interpol, 50 to the spanish interior ministry, and a couple hours later they let me go, but if they had not, if they had sent me back to russia, i would have been killed. that is how much putin hates me. judy: when you first went to russia in late 1990's, putin was coming into power and you were pro-putin for a few years, before he started to turn on powerful business people. but what was it about him initially that made you think he could be good for russia? bill: the thing was, he came in to replace a man named boris yeltsin, the original president after the fall of the soviet union. boris yeltsin was a crazy guy, sort of drunk and he allowed the oligarchs, these 22 oligarchs to steal 40% of the country.

and the rest of the russians were living in destitute poverty. i and everybody else in the country, we were all desperate for somebody to restore order. putin comes in and presents himself as a modern technocrat. he was not drunk, he was slim, he spoke english, and he seemed to remember things from meeting to meeting. for the first couple of years, he behaved kind of like a boring technocrat, no personal charisma at all. we thought he was going to be getting rid of the oligarchs. it turned out he was not interested in getting rid of the oligarchs, he just wanted to become the biggest oligarch himself. there is an expression that camera corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and that was the story of vladimir putin. as he gained more power as president, he became immensely corrupt and powerful and it got worse and worse, until 22 years

later, he is the richest man of the world. he's got a net worth north of $2 billion. he does not care about anything other than killing tens of thousands of civilians. judy: explain in a house shall have vladimir putin holds on to the power he had -- in a nutshell how vladimir putin holds on to the power he has. you spoke about the threats, but how exactly does it work. bill: he pretends there is a democracy, but anybody who wants to become challenge to him it gets killed. a man gets imprisoned like alexei navalny or exiled like a chess champion. anybody who wants to run against him looks at these examples and says, i don't want to do that. at the same time, if he is ever

starting to worry about the people in russia getting tired of him, he starts a war. this is the third war he started. one was in georgia in 28, crimea in 2014, and this is the third one. every time he starts a war, his approval ratings rise. it is almost automatic that is how he stays in power. judy: given what you know about him, what do you believe he wants right now? the ukrainians have put up much fiercer resistance that the russians expected by all accounts. how long do you think he is going to continue to take over, to try to take over ukraine? bill: he is never going to stop. vladimir putin is in this war to be in this war. he does not care about ukraine, he cares about having a foreign enemy, about all the people in russia rallying against the foreign enemy and around them,

and he needs to be in this more. he does not want to be in a losing war, and he is losing based on all the things ukrainians are doing. there is only one thing for him to do, become more brutal, kill more civilians, and create more heartbreak, because that is his modus operandi. judy: where do you see this going, this war? bill: there are three outcomes. either the ukrainians win, not high probability. another outcome is that putin wins, that he somehow gets ukraine, in which case he will then be at the baltic borders, estonia, lithuania, or even poland,hallenging us with nato. i would not put that is a high private ability because the ukrainians are doing a good job -- high probability, because the ukrainians are doing a good job. the most likely scenario, this carries on and on in the most heartbreaking way. judy: billthank you

very much.er, we bro appreciate it. bill: thank you. ♪ judy: let's turn to the challenge of climate change and energy sources. our science correspondent is asking, can alternative energy sources really help? >> what is this? it is a toyota fuel-cell vehicle. >> it means "future" in japanese. >> jack is the director of the fuel-cell research center at the university of california irvine. he is convinced a future that runs on hydrogen, like this car, is finally around the corner. how is the performance? >> it is nice. you could design a fuel-cell engine that is as fast as any battery engine. >> pay fuel-cell generates

energy by relying on the natural attraction between hydrogen and oxygen molecules. inside the cell, a membrane allows positive hydrogen particles to pass through to oxygen supply from ambient air. the negative particles are split off and sent on a detour, creating a flow of electrons, electricity to power the motor. after their work is done, all departed is reunite to make water -- all the particles reunite to make water, the only tailpipe emission on these vehicles. >> the main thing that is a benefit is you can go farther, and hydrogen is light, so you can put a lot onboard a vehicle. >> up until now, fuel cells have had a bumpy, sporadic ride. first imagined in 1839, they finally moved into a real-world application in the 1960's, when nasa developed them as a way to generate electricity on apollo spacecraft.

then, 40 years later, president george w. bush pledged more than a billion dollars in real funding to spread -- federal funding to spread widespread adoption of hydrogen fuel cell cars. pres. bush: are scientists and engineers will overcome obstacles, taking these cars from laboratory to show room, so that the first car driven by a child born today could be powered by hydrogen and pollution free. [applause] >> but when people looked under the hood, they were less impressed with the idea. after all, most hydrogen is produced with methane, so there really was nothing climate friendly about hydrogen. >> you could probably say it was a little bit of greenwashing. >> i would agree, and it kind of tainted hydrogn a bit, if you will, as something that enables fossil to keep going. >> but they never stopped going here, and now, renewed attention and funding.

the reason, cheap and increasingly plentiful wind and solar power generation make it possible to employ renewable electrity to split water molecules, making hydrogen carbon free, so-called green hydrogen. is there currently a hydrogen renaissance? >> absolutely. most all jurisdictionshat have objectively considered, how do we achieve zero you missions, they have come to realize that hydrogen is required for making all those sectors zero emissions. >> required because batteries alone will not get us there. planes, trains, ships, and trucks need less weight and longer range than batteries will likely provide. at the port of los angeles, toyota is protesting fuel-cell powered trucks. >> all right, here we go. >> a veteran driver gave me a

spin. he has been evaluating hydrogen fuel cell trucks for the past five years. >> this truck is different because it ilos t has a lot mord power. and it does not pollute. the only thing coming out of the tailpipe is water. >> for him, this project is personal. on an average day, 16,000 trucks haul freight in and out of the port of los angeles. he and his family live nearby, and all of the kids have asthma. >> they shoulder the burden of the truck emissions and get little help. if i can do whatever i can to push that needle, i am going to do it. >> toyota made its first big bets on hydrogen vehicles 30 years ago. >> this is a fuel-cell garage. what we do is take a look at the vehicle in a deep level. >> greg scott is the general

manager of toyota's fuel-cell solutions group based in gardena, california. >> the good news is the technology exists. this is not a fundamentals of physics problem. this is an engineering exercise and development of resources and bringing skill to this. when you are moving away from the incumbent, there are going to be costs associated with that. >> california provides incentives to address the chicken and egg issues. jack took me to one of the 45 hydrogen filling stations in the state. hydrogen is energy dense, also the lightest element on the periodic table, so it must be highly compressed or liquefied to be distributed. >> it will always be more expensive than gasoline to move around. and for structure is key, because -- infrastructure is key, because if we can have these belts and actually make a whole bunch of liquid hydrogen and deliver it this way, it will become less expensive. >> getting to that point is

driving a lot of work here at the national renewable energy laboratory in golden, colorado. the bipartisan infrastructure bill includes $9.5 billion in federal funding for hydrogen technology development. the department of energy is spearheading an effort to see thmarket with hydrogen abuse and hubs -- hydrogen distribution hubs across the country. >> to really go big but the government incentives and government support and partnership are critical. >> keith runs the fuel-cell and hydrogen technologies laboratory here. >> what are you working on in your lab that is going to make this happen? >> to make hydrogen cost less. there is an ambitious goal to get down to one dollar per kilogram in one decade. solar and wind took 30, 40 years. we need to do the same with hydrog in just 10 years. >> they are refining every

aspect of hydrogen action. -- hydrogen production. they are testing new materials and techniques to improve the performance of electrolyzers that can pull hydrogen out of water. how do you do that with the least electricity as possible? that is where our research is. >> they are building an expensive wind and solar farm to power hydrogen electrolysis. it can provide power when wind is not blowing in the sun is not shining. so hydrogen can enable and all renewable red, potentially? >> absolutely, hydrogen can enable a huge penetration of renewables on the grid and not need the base load of power plants that are used today. >> hydrogen is once again seeing a moment in the sun, and this time the technology and urgency may spark a more positive reaction. from the pbs newshour, i'm miles

o'brien at the port of los angeles. ♪ judy: staying with climate change, i spoke earlier today with john kerry, president biden's special envoy for climate, at an event sponsored by the center for global development. here are some edited excerpts from our wide-ranging conversation. i asked whether he still believes congress will approve more money to help poorer countries adapt to climate change, given the political divisions and high oil prices. >> i have hopes that congress can pass climate legislation. i know folks are talking in these next days, and i remain very hopeful that we could get some legislation. it is really hard for me to fathom that the united states

senate i served in for 28 years, when we used to be able to deal with each other in a bipartisan basis to get things done, that now there are a group of people that do not even accept the science that is now settled on this, and that we are not able to move forward. every single economic analysis that has been peer reviewed and put out over the last 15, 20 years documents that it is far, far more expenve to not respond to climate than it is to respond. if we respond to this crisis, we can win this battle anin the doing of that we can create millions of jobs around the planet. we can have cleaner air. what we're talking about is reducing pollution. methane is pollution. co2 is pollution. 10 million people a year die

from this pollution, and yet we're not reducing it, we're increasing it. if you ever want a definition of insanity, it's some of the behavior that the world is falling into at this point in not responding to this crisis. we can have a healthier planet, a cleaner planet, a more secure planet, if we do things that are on the table to have clean energy. judy: continuing on on this, secretary kerry, it's been reported that you told the white house national climate advisor kena mccarthy that the new u.s. commitment on fossil fuels needed to be at least 50% production by 2030 for the u.s. to be a credible negotiator. is that realistic? sec. kerry: well, gina mccarthy didn't need me to suggest a level of citizens who's very savvy and knows exactly what we needed to do. she did an incredible job with her team and pulling all the efforts of the united states together to come up with a realistic target. we did not want to put something phony out there.

we wanted to know this was something we could in fact reach. and so gina and her team and the rest of us who were involved in the process all agreed that a 50 percent to 52% reduction was was something we could achieve. it's realistic. it's more than a lot of other countries, canada's not at that level, japan, others, rsotbu whe you mentioned you were on track. secretary kerry: i don't believe we are on track because of dealing with geopolitical realities. there has been a delay in the implementation to some degree. the report of a few weeks ago made it crystal clear that we still have the ability to achieve what we set out to do.

it is a hard choice we have to ke, which is, howo we do this in a way that deals with the immediate needs of filling power requirements, transportation requirements, but not something that is filled out so long that it is adding to the problem in the long term? judy: you mention backsliding by others. given what's going on in ukraine, given the current political the current economic environment. some of that backsliding has come on the part of the biden administrati. the opening up of many acres of federal lands for drilling. there are other other decisions that are being made right now. people are watching. how much of a setback is all that inside your own administration?

sec. kerry: i don't think it's a setback, because i don't think a lot of it is going to produce fuel. the company is the old companies have massive numbers of leases today, opening something up to release and then they buy the least that's not a well, that doesn't produce drilling. or, you know, i think that what you're going to see, i mean, and by the way, as i said, gas over the next few years, as long as you have a plan for capturing the emissions as you go forward, that can be mitigated. and there are vast number of leases held by these companies today and they're not drilling them. there's just going to be a demand curve-driven event. i think that what you're going to see around the world is more d more technologies coming online that are producing cleaner and less expensive fuels. solar and wind are less expensive than coal or oil or gas. they just are less expensive. i think people are going to make choices based on economics. so i don't think it's going to amount to a setback in the long term. the president needs to stabilize economies.

the world needs to have our stabilizedconomies. and unfortunately a temporary effort to make sure sthere's thenoughat supplrey ofi enough supply of the essential ingredients of that economy that you stabilize and are not pricing everybody out of the market. because if you price everybody out for the market, they're gonna have either, you know, an implosion, economically, or a revolution, as people rebelled against prices that they're just not able to pay. and so there are some realities you've got to enter into here. i don't think the president has walked back one iota. i think he has had to make some tough decisions, but i think ultimately, this will smooth out. judy: secretary john kerry, who has been working on these issu for a number of years, now the u.s. special representative,

presidential envoy. thank you very much. sec. kerry: thank you. judy: the effort to understand how the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol last year happened is a question congress, reporters, and the american people have been confronted with for the past 15 months. lisa desjardins is here with a new look. lisa: radicalized extremist groups, law enforcement bowing to pressure, and the encouraging words of president trump himself. it's all part of a new podcast called "will be wild" that explores the leadup to the january 6 attack. andrea bernstein is an investigative journalist who covers trump's legal troubles for npr and she is the co-host of the podcast. president trump wrote that for

the january 6 riot, it will be wild. what is your take on trump's influence of what happened? >> a federal judge recently ruled that the president more likely than not committed a crime in the run-up to january 6. but we wanted to take a long look not only at the trump administration but the years prior. we found there had been a trend of america both of radicalization and the government turning away from supremacist violence that was very much accelerated during the trump years, both the radicalization of the people from the country and also the hollowing out of the various that were law enforcement agencies that were designed to protect against domestic terrorism. for example, as a journalist, i covered september 11 and its aftermath. i was completely baffled by january 6. how could there be a whole federal agency that was sent to

prevent -- set up to prevent against this kind of attack, that didn't work? what we found was that there had been a term at the department of homeland security. there had been six acting secretaries, people in and out of important positions, people who tried to confront domestic terrorism being told directly by the white house "do not do that." so, when january 6 came and the president sent out that tweet and tens of thousands of his supporters came to washington, it was like pushing over those barricades with a feather, because the reinforcements that were supposed to be there to defend the capitol and democracy had been weakened by four years of president trump. >> spoke to different analysts and officials. on of them was a former department of homeland security analyst, and he talked about this idea of what was going on

inside the trump administration, the problems he saw. here is what he told you. >> that administration mainstream some of these extremist narratives that i saw on kkk message boards and neo nazi websites, building a wall on the southwest border, banning muslims from traveling into the country, mass deportation of latino immigrants. thisas the first time, in all the trending that i've looked at, that these right-wing extremist groups thrived under a republican administration. lisa: can you connect the dots and have the security apparatus missed this -- on how the security apparatus missed this? andrea: i think darrell johnson is an interesting person, because he tried to warn as far back as the obama administration that radicalization was taking place in the military and that domestic terrorism was on

the rise. we found during the trump administration that there were officials -- for example, the former secretary for counterterrorism, elizabeth newman, who worked in homeland security since bush, came to the trump administration believing she could stabilize his and make things better. when she tried to raise the alarm and to mobilize the country against the rise of domestic terrorism, found this constant pushback from the white house. what many of the experts we oke to came to conclude was that the white house did not want to fight white supremacist groups gathering because it is people as among the former president's political base. in fact, the former president saw it in his interest while of these groups -- to rile up these groups, and the consequences of that came together on january 6, when people died, more than

hundred police officers were injured, people feared for their lives, the temple of democracy was desecrated. in a way, we are still living with that. not just with the consequences, but with all of the forces that came into play, but the radicalization and the distrust of government. that is what we are dealing with now and what we are really trying to explore in the podcast, how these forces remain in play and what it means for upcoming elections, the 2022 midterms and the 2024 presidential race. lisa: among those forces, and you mentioned it early on, the thousands of trump supporters who were there on january 6 initially at that rally. one that you was a womano ttalk named natalie janf idaho. she mentioned interesting things about why she went to the rally. it was because of her election down. here is what she told you.

>> it's almost like these feelings continued to compound of frustration, like we have the right to a free and fair election, and it continued to become less free and less fair. like, it got to a place of, you know, what can i do to be a part of a movement to represent how we are feeling? lisa:ree d fair, but i want to ask you, what did you gather about what drove those people to the rally, to the capitol that day, and what they still believe today about that? andrea: this is one of the incredibly disturbing things we are dealing with, that immediately after the election, as we all know, former president trump said, frankly, i did win this election. he began, and his supporters and allies began, to pump out december -- about disinformation -- pump out disinformation about the election.

on the podcast, we talked about how people heard that and believed there was a civil war coming, and they had to follow the suggestion of their commander-in-chief and go to washington too, as they saw it, defend democracy, when they were attacking democracy. it is one of the truly disturbing legacies, that millions in this country still believe that, president former to -- former president trump is still saying that the rests of the election were fraudulent. it is still a motivating force. right now, the majority of republicans do not believe joe biden was legitimately elected. thats something that is not an interesting ctoid, that is an active trend going on in our democracy that we will be confronting as soon as the elections come in the fall. lisa: the podcast is "will be wild." thank you for talking to us. andrea: it is great to talk with you, lisa. ♪ judy: tomorrow, new jersey will

become the latest state to allow the sale of recreational marijuana to people over 21. it's one of 19 states where such sales are legal, or about to begin. but as william brangham reports, these states are legalizing cannabis, a substance that remains illegal under federal law. will: roughly 40% of americans now live in states where marijuana is illegal. but because of the drug's deral status, cannabis businesses struggle with banking and pay extremely high tax rates. so, will lawmakers here in washington address this divide? joining me now is natalie fertig. she covers marijuana policy for "politco." new jersey is making this move, joining all these other states. we know the house has passed a bill that will legalize marijuana. whats it status, and what will it do?

natalie: the bill would technically decriminalize marijuana. it would make it federally illegal to possess and use cannabis, but it would leave it up to the states whether they want to legalize cannabis and allow people to produce it and sell it and tax it. that is kind of similar to how america's alcohol laws work. the bill would also expunge some elis annat red create social equity programs that would create funding for people who want to get into the industry who have been disproportionally heard by marijuana laws to this point. will: does that have any chance of passage? natalie: it is complex. we are sitting here in april 2020 1, 2020 two, what year is it? 2022, hard to keep up. this is something the democrats talked about when they ran in 2020, and we do not have a lot of congress left in this time for the senate to work on it.

senator schumer has said this is a priority for him, but he also said he is not going to have a bill until just before the august recess. that leaves an even smaller amount of time for the senate to deal with something that is an incredibly complex problem to solve. will:. this other issue -- there is this other issue in a piece of legislation about banking that seems to have more bipartisan support. what will that do, and how likely is that to pass? natalie: yeah, while decriminalization doesn't even have all democrats on board, the banking bill has republicans on board. the problem with the banking bill, which would let cannabis business access small business loans and get banking accounts, which currently, because it is a federally illegal substance, they cannot do, that bill has moreupport from republicans, but it does not have the support of all the progressive democrats. senator schumer and senator cory booker have said, we do not want

this bill to pass unless there are other elements incorporated into it more passed alongside it that would help people that have been hurt by the war on drugs. there is this growing concept within the democratic party, especially progressive democrats, that definitely came out of everything that happened in the summer of 2020 with george floyd and this increased focus on criminal justice reform, that you cannot allow people to make money off of cannabis without helping people who have been put in jail previously for making money off cannabis. that is really kind of where this divide has come down to now, and that is holding up the banking bill. will: if the federal government were to act cohesively on this and give states the green light, is there a sen that more states would suddenly become like new jersey and jump on board? natalie: it is possible.

there are definitely states that use federal illegality as an excuse to not legalize. it is unclear whether or not they would just find another excuse after that happened or if there are truly lawmakers in those states that are just waiting for the federal government to give them the green light. i think states will still have to deal with the same issues that the federal government is dealing with, and those issues tend to hold up cannabis legalization even in states that really want it. we saw this happen in new york, which tried multiple times to legalize cannabis, but the details really held them back. i don't think we would suddenly see 15 states legalize weed when the federal government laws changed. will: there was a lot of concern raised by critics that teenagers are suddenly going to be ing a lot of marijuana, that there was going to be motor accidents because everyone is going to be stoned and driving. with this national experiment happening, is there evidence that any of these fears have come to pass? natalie: that is a complex

question, mostly because there is not great eta. we have small data points on each of those things from different states, but in almost every circumstance, there is another data point to either caveat or to compare against that sort of conflicts with the data. a lot of that is because cannabis is not federally legal. a lot at the data we would need to understand cannabis on a national level would take the resources of the federal government to understand. while the sky has not fallen in, there are not thousands of, or tens of thousands of new teenagers -- there's not six-year-olds smoking joints on the street corner -- we don't really knothe full extent of impact on all the things that you just mentioned, which is rather unfortunate given it has almost been 10 years. will: natalie, thank you for being here. natalie: thanks for having me. judy:.

helpful to have that update. that is the newshour for tonight. point is online here tomorrow evening. for all of us here, please stay safe and we will see you soon. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is respoible for its caption content and accuracy.] >> major funding has been provid by -- >> for 25 years, community cellular's goal has been to provide wireless service that helps people communicate. our team can find a plan that fits you. for more, visit consumercellular.tv. >> the ford foundation. working with missionaries on the front lines of social change will ride. -- worldwide. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. ♪

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