♪ judy: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, economic concerns. investors scramble as a financial markets hover in and out of their market territory and questions arise about a recession. and the president abroad. mr. biden focuses on technology gaps and security during his first presidential trip to asia. and on edge. new york city struggles with a sharp rise in violent crime complicating its recovery from covid-19. >> the pandemic unearthed some of our deepest concerns. judy: and it is friday. david brooks and jonathan weigh

in on the mass shooting in buffalo and the implications of early primary election results. all of that and more on tonight's pbs "newshour." ♪ >> major funding for the pbs "newshour" has been provided by -- >> volunteer, topiary artists, a raymondjames financial advisor taylor's advice to help you live your life. life well planned. ♪ ♪ >> the john as and james l knight foundation fostering engaged communities. more at kf.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions -- ♪

and friends of the "newshour." ♪ >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. judy: the financial market closed out this week with yet another head spinning day with one of the main indexes, the s&p 500 plunging for almost three hours into bear market territory signifying a drop of 20% or more from its prior record. the dow jones industrial average lost ground for the eighth straight week. the first time that is happened in decades. the tech heavy nasdaq is already in a bear market. that index and the s&p 500 saw the longest streak of weekly losses since 2001.

by the close of trading, the dow jones industrials were up almost nine points. the nasdaq fell 34 points at the close. and the s&p 50 gained a half a point after the slide into a bear market earlier. let's look at what is behind this ongoing volatility and downward trend and what it may signal about the economy. jason is an economist at the harvard kennedy school and he served as a top adviser to president obama. basin, welcome back to the "newshour -- jason, welcome back to the "newshour." >> it is a scary time in the markets but we have to remind ourselves that the market is not the economy. this past week, several retailers reported terrible earnings but consumers are buying a lot. it is the terrible earnings are because of the wages. there are a lot of pieces to

the economy. judy: for people who want to understand, they are listening to you but still asking why is it so volatile? what do you say? >> there are two things going on. there is one key variable that matters a lot for the stock market and that his interest rates. the fed is raising interest rates right now which makes it more attractive for investors to move their money into bonds and out of stocks. when they sell their stocks, the stock market goes down. part of what we are seeing is a consequence of the federal reserve raising interest rates to stop inflation and part of it is that inflation is starting to chip into profit margins for some of these firms. judy: and yet we know the federal reserve has said we are going to gradually raise interest rates until we think as long as we think it is necessary to do that. why doesn't that provide some

reassurance in the market? >> it is a tricky job the fed has right now. normally, they would say, wait, we are nervous about what will happen to the economy and we want to keep rates low to help but they cannot afford to do that because the inflation rate has been 8% over the last year and they need to bring it down. need to keep going. the market is saying we are not sure you will be able to bring inflation down without causing a recession. whenever you raise interest rates, that makes stocks a little less exciting and makes the market go down. there is not much the fed can do to get out of that bind because it still needs to bring down inflation. judy: what's looming is a possibility of a recession. how do you calculate how likely we are to move into a recession? >> it is a really hard thing to predict.

there is an old joke that bear markets have predicted nine of the last ve recessions. yes, sometimes you get a recession. sometimes you don't. if i look at the next six months to a year, i see consumers that continue to spend at high levels. balance sheets that were healthier than they were before the crisis. as this is rebuilding inventories and workers returning. that is all reassuring to me for the next six months to a year. past that is where i get more nervous. right now, a lot of uncertainty and no one can tell you for sure. judy: what i also hear you saying is there is a distinction between what is going on in the economy and the measurements you just mentioned and what is going on in the every day monday through friday financial markets. >> absolutely. we have a 3.6% unemployment rate. we have been creating 500,000 jobs a month.

consumers have been willing to spend. there are a lot of strong things in the real economy. the parts othe economy that are most important to americans is whether you have a job and most everyone that wants one has one as evidenced by the low unemployment rate. judy: for people who are watching and they are saying it is friday evening, do i go into the weekend worrying about this or do i sleep well tonight? >> i would say sleep well tonight but be more vigilant on monday then you might otherwise be. judy: thank you very much, jason furman. >> thank you. ♪ judy: in the days other news, president biden kicked off his first trip to asia since taking office by addressing the global

comput chip shortage that has been exacerbated by the covid pandemic. his five-day visit include stops in south korea and japan all aimed at reinforcing the u.s. commitment to its allies in the face of aggression from china and north korea. we will take a closer look at what is at stake right after the news summary. children and the u.s. just five through 11 began receiving their pfizer covid vaccine booster shot today hours after the cdc gave the final approval. they will be eligible five months after their second vaccine dose. the cdc estimates that so far fewer than dirty percent of the 28 million children in this age bracket have received two doses of a covid vaccine. if federal judge in louisiana ruled today that covid-19 asylum restrictions must continue on the southern u.s. border. the biden administration planned to lift the restrictions on monday. the trump era public health order known as title 42 has

allowed officials to deport thousands of migrants seeking asylum in the u.s. during the pandemic. the justice department unveiled new efforts to combat hate crimes days after 10 black people died in a mass shooting buffalo, new york. it includes plans to fund state hotlines to report hate crimes and to assist local police agencies with sending data to the fbi. the attorney general said confronting acts of hate is an -- is a matter of moral urgency. >> we do this work because we believe that all people in this country should be able to live without fear of being attacked or harassed because of where they are from, what they look like, whom they love or how they worship. judy: the fbi reported more than 8300 hate crimes in the u.s. in 2020. the last year for which data is ailable. that is the highest level in

more than a decade. russia claims it has taken full control of the southern port city of mariupol after a nearly three month long siege. there was no immediate confirmation from ukraine. the russian defense ministry says the steel plant, the last pocket of resistance there was completely liberated after remaining ukrainian defenders surrendered. more assistance is on the way to your -- to the ukraine. the group of seven nations pledge a million dollars in economic age. the united nations sounded new warning today that parts of africa will soon face mask starvation. it is largely due to the war in ukraine, the covid pandemic, inflation and climate change. you and officials estimate that about 18 million people in a region will face severe hunger in the next three months. the counies most at risk are

burkina faso, chad, mali and new chair. -- and niger. cpac wrapped up in hungary. dozens of conservatives from around the world gathered for the two-day event. many u.s. journalists were denied access. speakers included former presidential candidate rick santorum, hungary's populace prime minister and american conservative union chairman matt shellac. and a passing to note. legendary american sports writer and editor roger angel died today at his home in manhattan. he was known for his passionate writing about baseball ending hundreds of essays and stories that captured the spirit of a true fan as a regular contributor to the new yorker. roger angel was 101 years old. still to come, calls for the

president to cancel the widespread financial burden of student debt grow louder. new york struggles with a sharp rise in violent crime complicating the city's recovery from covid-19. david brooks and jonathan weigh in on the week's political headlines and much more. ♪ >> this is the pbs "newshour" from wep a studios in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. judy: president biden's trip to asia aims to improve relations with allies in the region and in the coming days he plans to introduce a new regional economic framework designed to counter china's influence. nick schifrin begins our coverage. reporter: outside of seoul today, president biden toward one of the worlds most advanced semiconductor plants. he and the south korean

president were guided through the samsung facility by american technicians. this plant is the model for a $17 billion facility samsung is building in texas. >> thank you very much. reporter: in his first presidential speech in asia, he focused on this region. >> so much of the future of the world will be written here in the indo pacific and the next several decades. we are standing at an inflection point in history where decisions we make today will have far-reaching impacts on the world that we leave for our children tomorrow. ♪ reporter: the u.s. attempt to focus on asia will rely on newly inaugurated allies. he promises a tougher stance on north korea and stance and his predecessor. >> north korea's denuclearization greatly contribute to bringing lasting peace and prosperity to the korean peninsula and beyond. reporter: but this year in

propaganda videos -- north korea has shown little peace and a lot of tests holding 16 launches including what it claimed was a new intercontinental ballistic missile. and four years after north korea's last nuclear test, researchers say pyongyang is re-excavating tunnels at a nuclear testing sites. jake sullivan warned of more tests. >> either a further missile test including long-range missile test or a nuclear test or frankly both. >> i believe tpp is a plus for america's economy. reporter: also on the agenda, resiting the tpp. president obama made it his centerpiece for his pivot to asia. 11 members are on a different

treaty but it still excludes the u.s. on monday, president biden will travel to tokyo where he will announce a new policy. he will also hold another meeting as he did in september with the leaders of the quad, australia, india, and japan. it is the administration's effort to show it can focus on what u.s. officials believe has always been their top priority, china. pbs newshour, nick schifrin. judy: for more on biden's first trip to asia as president, we get the perspective from frank, the president of the mansfield organization. we -- he also worked at the state department and as a staffer for senator joe biden. and on the blazer is the director at the asia program at the german marshall fund of the united states. hello to both of you and welcome back to the program. frank, let me start with you. what is it about this moment you believe has led president biden to go to asia? >> thank you for the question.

deep in bidens dna about usa -- u.s.-asia relations are the words of mike mansfield who taught that the most important relationship to the u.s. was the u.s.-china alliance. at the core, you have president biden reassuring allies that the u.s. credible nuclear deterrent remain strong in the face of north korea's continued nuclear testing a missile development. that the u.s. commitment to asia will not be in any way diminished by the conflict underway in europe where the u.s. and nato allies are responding to russia's invasion of ukraine. security leads here and the asia dna of the president inherited from mansfield has brought him to this region before traveling even to kyiv. judy: and staying with you,

frank, how worried is the united states or south korea about what north korea is up to? >> i think that u.s. allies are frankly a little more spooked by north korea's continued pursuit of nuclear weapons then is the united states. north korea's pursuit of nuclear weapons is a four decade long enterprise. convincing them to abandon that pursuit remains a high priority for the u.s. but there is not much hope of big progress on that challenge anytime soon. the u.s. visit to the region is to remind them that we are with them. there will be steps taken i'm sure to shore up that deterrence including movement on enhanced villa terry. they are working with japan and south korea on developing limited counterstrike abilities of their own including surface to surface missile technology. our allies want that reassurance and president biden will give it

to them. judy: bonnie blaser, you were telling us that china is watching this and even as it is more than distracted with its own domestic problems right now, it is watching this trip with concern. why? >> that is right, judy. the chinese are very focused on the economic problems and the zero covid policy. but the chinese do not like the idea that the united states is so active in the indo pacific region. the chinese want to be dominant certainly in east asia. they see the u.s. as building a nato like structure -- nato like structures which is what they call the quad a the arrangement with the u.s., the u.k. and australia aiming to build a nuclear powered submarine. the chinese say the u.s. is

operating on cold war mentality. china is on the rise. this is its region. and the united states should and its alliances and see the region essentially -- and cede the region essentially to china. a couple years ago, they were a lot less worried about the u.s. pivot to asia. the chinese foreign minister in 2018 cald the quad -- he said it wou dissipate like seafoam on the ocean. but today, they are far more worried than they were then. judy: is that because they actually fear what the u.s. and its allies could do in the region? >> well, they fear the building of what they see as anti-china coalitions regionally and globally. the g7 called out china for

supporting russia's invasion of ukraine. the united states and europe have been sending identical messages to china's leader that china should not provide material support to the russian economy or to thear effort. i think the chinese see there are key countries in the world pushing back against china and they are worried this could- this could affect their interests. judy: we heard nick schifrin repoing that another part of the trip is the economic element. what can be accomplished here? the u.s. is in delicate straits as we reported in our lead segment tonight. what can president biden hope to create to move forward or make progress on meeting with his asian allies? >> unfortunately for the president, most of the

challenges he faces on the international trade front are here at home. there is no enthusiasm in the congress for the kind of binding international trade agreement represented by the transpacific partnership. facing that reality, the president is doing the next best thing which as he is working to develop friends shoring that is to say working with countries that share our values, our democratic systems to enhance our supply chain resiliency, to rece dependence on china for key technologies, inputs for the iphone i am using to conduct this skype interview with you this evening. and so, the indo pacific economic framework he will announce with much fanfare in tokyo is designed to work with like-minded countries to work together to build more resilient reliable supply chains especially on digital economy

which the united states perceives to be at the core of our economic future. i think the asian partners will welcome this but frankly it is sort of tpp-lite and they would prefer if the united states were to join the comprehensive -- the new version of the transpacific partnership. judy: the acronyms can make us a little crazy but it is important to follow them. bonnie, china looks on that economic arrangement, how? >> the chinese have been deeply engaged in the region economically. they have been providing loans to many countries in southeast asia and they and fact have applied to join the transpacific partnership now called cptpp where the united states has not. i think china is less concerned about u.s. economic engagement in the region. last week, president biden in fact pledged 150 million dollars

to southeast asian countries went eight of the leaders visited the white house and the chinese quickly topped the offer by pledging 1.5 billion dollars. i think the chinese are actually more worried about the security and diplomatic engagement of the united states and they are worried about the u.s. economic influence. judy: well, we are following it all and you are following it all very closely and we thank you so much. bonnie blaser and frank, thank you. >> thank you very much. ♪ judy: president biden has indicated he will soon announce a decision on whether he will cancel $10,000 of student debt for college graduates. it is a decision being widely anticipated but also a much

debated one over at scope and merit. on an of oz looks at this -- our reporter looks at this debate. reporter: the total outstanding student loan debt has doubled since 2008. it is now more than 1.7 trillion dollars and most is owed to the federal government. more than 43 million americans owe student debt. it is disproportionately burdensome to graduates of color particularly black graduates who owe $25,000 more on average than their white peers. president biden is considering forgiving up to $10,000 of student debt, less then what many had advocated for and reportedly with income caps limited to borrowers earning less than hundred 25,000 dollars a year. some experts argue even that goes too far and will not solve fundamental problems with college costs. we look at does whether

catherine who was with the student barware protection program and mark who is with the committee for responsible federal budget. i'll come to you both and thank you for being here. i want to hear from both of you about what you think about that proposal so far. >> thank you for having me. first, we are broadly in support of debt cancellation. a lot of what you just outlined about the importance of the president upholding the promises of trying to achieve greater racial equity through this plan but also thinking broadly about how we have so many broken programs throughout our student loan system. we are seeing over decades how these piecemeal fixes have not worked and we need a clean slate to build a foundation to build a better student loan system including fixing the broken programs. >> the problem is not the

student loan programs rather college affordability. we already have very high deficits and we have the highest inflation in 40 years which this would make worse and these benefits would mostly go to students in the top part of the income ladder. we did the math on this. it cuts off the wealthiest but it does not cut off a lot of people that are high earning. and it does not -- >> i think student -- when we think about the fact that wealthy people do not take on debt to attend college. we are thinking about the fact that debt cancellation affects many load middle income borrowers. a lot of people that went to school and that did not get a degree but still have debt. we talk about that argument and

we ignore the experiences of so many borrowers but we are also talking about race and equity and we are missing the fact of how much debt affects black borrowers. 10 years after repayment, black barware still owe 20 some percent. reporter: it does not help everyone but it can help those that really need edge. when you look at the statistics. the correctional black caucus put out -- the congressional black caucus put out a statement today. saying this disproportionately affects black communities across the country. >> the way -- the way to deal with racial equity is college affordability. the 25% wealthiest -- excuse me. white americans in the top 20% of the income spectrum has more

debt then black americans. 80% of americans have no -- 80% of black americans no college debt. reporter: i want to ask about that $10,000 limit. that is a lot less than a lot of people were asking for and pushing for. what kind of actual difference given average in-state tuition for college is over $10,000. one year. how much of a difference is $10,000 going to make? >> there are for many millions of borrowers who might be in default or those that have lower balances -- it is life-changing. for so many more borrowers, they won't reap the benefits of that cancellation. if we are talking about how do you create a new foundation to rebuild a better student loan system if you don't reach the higher amounts, 50 k is where you would really see an effect. 30 k, erasing debt for more than

30 million people. you have to think about the fact of how broad we want this to reach if we are going to rebuild a better system? reporter: if it is only $10,000, what kind of impact or what difference does that make? >> it does make some but not that significant event effort if we are going to say we have a broken student loan system. we have to be willing to commit to making a better system. not significant enough for us to make those specific changes we are hoping for. reporter: part of this conversation is that there has been income driven repaynt systems. why are they not working? >> if we are going to fix the student loan system we should fix the system. doing so by executive order won't do much of anything. we estimate that will be back where it is in three years time. the system now is not perfect. there are too many different programs.

but we have not gone to completion with them because they are pretty new. we should be working with the congress and the president to unify the systems. president trump and president obama had similar proposals to do just that. reporter: you have laid out a few knock on impacts. the inflationary impact. some argue that if you reduce the debt burden now, that helps them participate in the economy and a could help the econy. is there something to that argument? >> that argument is why this is inflationary. we have an overheated economy. anything we do that gets people to spend more now as opposed to putting it toward paying down their debt or saving will make inflation worse. we have estimated full debt cancellation what at a half a point to the inflation rate. reporter: what needs to happen? >> both president obama and

president trump had plans to unify the system. i think we should be looking to those types of ideas. more fundamentally, we need to look at college affordability. if everyone thinks the president will cancel $10,000 in debt every four years, there will be an incentive to raise tuition and we will be in a worse situation. reporter: what would you say to that? >> regarding the inflation point, iis important to note that when we think about larger drivers of inflation, the war in ukraine, supply chain issues, covid, it is also important to note the way student debt cancellation works as a stimulus. this is people seeing monthly more money in their balance sheets because they will not have as much student loan debt. it is not an immediate injection of that money into the economy so it would immediately overheat it. it is people will have more money to help them as they

struggle with rising costs right now. the important part talking about current plans, we have tried to fix it and we have seen piecemeal plans. the reason they don't work is [indiscernible] only we have seen since 2021 a little over 100 people have received cancellation of their program. it is not working. we have to acknowledge these programs do not work. we need a larger systemic change to fix the broken systems. reporter: i feel like we will have you back for another conversation very soon. thank you so much. ♪ judy: after hitting your historic lows, pre-pandemic

crime has been spiking in many parts of the country including in the nation's most populous city. shootings in new york city have more than doubled this year compared to the sign -- the same time period in 2019. the new mayor has made public safety has top priority and polls show new yorkers agree with half saying crime is issue number one for them. is the city at or close to a tipping point? jeffrey point -- jeffrey brown has our look. reporter: on a recent morning, they ventured underground for one of the first times in weeks. they grew up riding the subway but says since the pandemic amid an increase and violence, he feels it is -- she feels it is different now. >> i feel uneasy because of the particular vibe in the car. reporter: you are more aware of it. >> i am in tune of what is going

on around me and that vigilance can be exhausting. reporter: on any given day, new york and feel glorious. spri in the air and families at play. urban life at its most pleasurable. but other days, the feeling is que different as it when a gunman opened fire on a subway car last month shooting and wounding 10 people. >> when that happens, it reels me back to that time when i was taking the train through brooklyn. reporter: she is the author of a recent memoir, beautiful country , about growing up as a young immigrant in new york city. >> the subway was the center of what to my family made america, made new york city accessible and what made it feel like there was mobility in terms of physical mobility but also social mobility. reporter: the psychology of a city, when does it change? how is it seen and felt by its

citizens and the outside world? questions new yorkers and others are asking themselves. >> people are concerned. people are afraid and worried. and you understand why reporter: williams is a new york public advocate, and elected ombudsman for the city. he was first diagnosed with to rett syndrome as a teenager. he is also a former councilman from brooklyn. his area didee progress in two decades before the pandemic. >> you cannot nor that violence is going up here in new york but across the nation. people have a right to be safe and feel safe. sometimes those are different things. we have to have leadership that can address those fears, put them in context so we don't get more afraid that we should be. reporter: on the day we spoke to williams, he had just come from a funeral viewing of a

12-year-old shot while sitting in a car. even with the recent uptick he notes violent crime in new york remains significantly below where it was in the early 1990's when the city recorded more than 2000 murders annually. and 2021, there was 488. >> it is hard because i know we are not where we were but we are not going in the right direction. reporter: we talk about a tipping point. one moment we are talking about new york being a vibrant and positive place and then something changes. >> i don't think we have reached the tipping point yet but we are moving in that direction. the only thing i can say is that this is a national thing that is happening. >> my first concern is that we might overreact. reporter: a psychologist at a college of criminal justice is worried the attention crimes like the subway shooting generate will lead to overblown

reactions by policymakers. >> fear of crime is real. people should feel concerned but if we allow and we exacerbate and exaggerate what is happening , then that will run rampant and the tipping point we keep talking about, if the fear gets too high, that will become the way new york is organized and we will start taking actions in a way that could lead to challenges down the road. reporter: since january, the city has added police patrols on the subway and they were increased again after the mass shooting in april. the mayor has also reinstated a specialized police unit charged with getting illegal guns off the street. in the past, these types of units have bee controversial including as part of the city's stop and frisk policy which racially profiled young black and latino men and was eed in 2013 by a federal judge. she says more than any one

violent incident or policy response, it is the more than two years of covid that still hang over new york city and must be addressed. >> the pandemic unraveled and exposed things about new york that were never really settled. the racial climate in new york has been client -- problematic forever. the health-care system has always been a challenge and the pandemic unearthed some of our more structurally deep rooted concerns and they will have an impact on crime. reporter: the demise of new york has been predicted many times before. a businessman, richard played a key role in saving the city from bankruptcy in the 1970's and led the transit system at a time when subways were losing ridership, physically falling apart and perceived as dangerous. perhaps surprisingly, he says that period does not compare to the shock of a -- of the last few years when the city lost

people and subway ridership plummeted. >> tre are a lot of people saying, i don't have to go to the office in new york. i can work from home. reporter: but he remains bullish on the long-term prospects of the city. >> i believe new york will recover but i don't know if it will take one year or three. but it still the only civilized institution in our society -- cities. the city of new york first and foremost. reporter: still fears persist and even grow for some pure the spike in violence has included attacks against asian americans. in january, a 40-year-old, michelle go was killed when pushed from behind by a homeless man in front of an ongoing subway train. >> there is a new sense of vulnerability among the asian population that we are beginning

targeted. with that has come a growing sense of community. i have noticed when i am on a train or platform that asians traveling by themselves, we tend to find each other and stand together and i can feel my own shoulders loosened a little thinking, i can breathe for a moment because we are all here and can protect each other. reporter: after the april subway shooting in sunset park, a diverse brooklyn neighborhood, they put a call out on twitter asking people to share subway memories. she was flooded with replies. >> there was of course the sad entries of being assaulted on the subway and seeing violence but most of all, there were so many stories of the kindness of new yorkers, of spontaneous singing -- ♪

it really showed me that the subway is the beating pulse of the city and yes, there is bad and yes, there is some silliness but there is so much good. reporter: for the pbs newshour, i am jeffrey brown in new york city. ♪ judy: this week the nation has been searching for answers after the racially motivated massacre in buffalo. and some general election matchups that could have far-reaching political consequences are taking shape while other primary races are still too close to call. for analysis on all of this, we turn to brooks, the new york times colonists david brooks and jonathan. hello to both of you on this friday. good to see you. we start with another very tough

story, david and we began this week with the awful mass shooting of black americans in buffalo. what does that say to you about where we are as a country when it comes to race and guns? >> jonathan can speak to this more than iut one of the truths of this country is that -- that comes from slavery, discrimination and lynching and it comes from white supremacists and racist violence. that is the reality. and those that stoke it do it in a lot of different ways. one of those is the theory that says the race of one group of people will swamp another. using that language, the great replacement language, that is tied to a culture of racial hostility and that is just a fact. i think it is legitimate to have

a wide variety of views on immigration. when you use racial categories and talking about swapping and white america being under threat, you are feeding into a culture. ideas have consequences and they will lead to violence. judy: there is almost an inevitability about this now. are we as a country accepting this as part of who we are? >> yes. i appreciate david's words at the outset of his answer. i remember the first time i got an email from someone who had read something i had written in the washington post years ago who was complaining to me about white genocide. that was the term then. white genocide. whites were being killed off and replaced. now, the great replacent theory is the happy smiley face of the white genocide thinking

out there. back then, it was the fringe. back then, it was a person out there in the far right swamps. and then president trump comes in and takes the lid off our national demons and now, what we have our sitting members of congress, people in the leadership of th republican in the house who are trading in this language. they may not use the exact words, great replacement theory, but everything else they talk about is parroting those talking points. when the great replacement theory is given a home, aid, and comfort by leaders in this country, what are we to expect? that is the danger we are in right now. we have seen far too many communities of americans being targeted i people who adhere to this great replacement theory.

we have seen blacks targeted. jews targeted and muslims targeted. at some point, this nation as a whole will have to start to take this seriously and leaders, republican leaders, need to speak up if a great replacement theory does not speak for them. judy: david, do you see any signs anywhere that people are taking this seriously enough or in a way that we may be able to come together and have a serious conversation about this and address who we are right now? >> i think we are having a conversation. it has been four or five years since 2014. years of difficult conversations which many people have been in the middle of so i think it has been an era of progress not necessarily on racial harmony but deeper understanding on the

part of a lot of people of what the experience of black america really is. at the same time that some have become better educated, some have become radicalized and this is a combination of the racist genotypes flowing through our history. it is a combination of mental health problems. it is a combination of extreme social isolation driving people to hang onto these conspiracy theories and want to take action. at the same time that i think we are having progress in america on racial communication, we are also seeing reaction against significant minority. judy: do you see any glimmer of progress on this? >> as opposed to glimmer of progress is that when i say what i just said in response to your first question that i am not going to get a bunch of blowback from people saying -- what are you talking about?

you are hypersensitive. that won't happen again. because of ferguson. because of george floyd and the two-year anniversary is coming up next week. because of the litany of racial things that whave been through over these years that the conversations we have been having over the years are much more sophisticated, much more nuanced does not mean we are making the leaps of progress i hoped we would but at least when we have these conversations there is no one saying, you're being crazy. judy: we know this is one of the issues that is going to be playing out in this year's midterm elections and we have some results toook at again from this week. let me ask you about the democratic primaries. there were several primaries in pennsylvania and north carolina and elsewhere.

for the democrats come in a few important races, progressive candidates came out ahead of the moderates or so-called mainstream democrats. what does that tell us about what shape democrats may be in the fall? >> there was some supposition when joe biden got elected that we would -- that we had this moderate democrat and the white house and the polarization of american politics may slow down or stop but we can toss aside that hope. the progressives did do quite well this week. whether that will hurt democrats in the fall if they present people that are less electable, i'm not sure. i look at john fetterman in pennsylvania. i find him a very attractive figure and probably a politically compelling figure. he is 6'8", where's carhart -- wears carhart. if you can show you have nothing

to do with east coast cultural elites, you are in good shape and that guy has made a cultural statement about who he is and h will be attacked for left-leaning policies but he strikes me as a pretty compelling figure and may be new sort of or different kind of aggressively working class progressive that we have not seen a lot of. judy: but that is not what the mainstream democrats and many of these races thought would happen. >> right. but as i look at these races, when we talk about democrats we are asking if they are progressive or moderate. we are talking about inches. medicare for all. canceling student that. expanding health care. you name the policy, there is some moderate versus progressive and going on but when it comes to republicans, we are not

talking about policies. everything revolves around donald trump and the big lie and where those prospective candidates fall in that little play. when we get democrats and republicans in the general election, it is going to be the democrat talking about policies and the republican trying to show just how much they are close to trump? i still am trying to understand what the general election is going to look like. judy: we saw in the republican primaries in these states, whether former president trump's chosen person came out on top or not, to a candidate, most of these republicans do not believe joe biden won. >> didn't dr. oz have a proposal to change the federal budget process? one thing i have learned about

the republican party is there was some thought that trumpism could be contained by either building a wall of non-trump candidates in the party or have establishment figures embracing trumpism at the same time that they water it down which is normally what happens in insurrections. that is another theory we can toss out. trumpism is pervasive in the party and it is bigger then trump. his own personal endorsements do make a difference clearly but the nationalist posture, the populist posture, talking about the stolen election ash this is all pervading the party. what will the fall election be like? i think it will be about none of these things. inflation, crime, schools and the culture wars. i think it will not be about

stopping the steel. if the republicans were going to be punished for that they would have already been punished looking at polls, they are not being punished. it is certainly a compass party. judy: one of the culture war issues is the supreme court leaked opinion. we have a new poll showing something like two thirds of americans do not want roe v. wade to be overturned. does that give us some kind of sense of what happens? we don't know what the court will do but if it comes forward with something that looks like the leaked draft, what does that say about where we are headed in the elections? >> it says we are headed towards a bumpy road. it says the supreme court does not care about public opinion. the support for roe v. wade -- there has always been a majority of americans support for roe v.

wade. th fac that a draft opinion was leaked and we got to read it knowing where the american people are on this issue and still a majority of the court in this draft onion wants to overturn roe v. wade, i think that says more about the court and it does about the american people. i understand it is a branch of government and they should be separate and apart from the people but the people will rise up. the american people will be very concerned if the official ruling from the supreme court in that case looks anything like the draft opinion. judy: what do you thi it portends if the court comes up with what it looks like they are going to end the public opinion is in the other dection? >> i would be proud that the supreme court ignored public inion. that is its job. the second part of your poll

showed how while people want to keep roe v. wade, they are somewhere in the middle about what restrictions they want to see on abortion. as lisa said the other night, they are somewhere between 15 and 22 weeks is where is some -- many people would like to see some restrictions come in. the parties are so incredibly polarized. judy: it is one we are watching very closely in these weeks to come. it promises to hold all of our attention for the rest of this year. david brooks and jonathan, thank you both. >> thank you, judy. ♪ judy: and that is the "newshour" for tonight. i am judy woodruff. join us online or again here on

monday evening. stay safe and we will see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs "newshour" has been provided by -- ♪ ♪ ♪ >> moving our economy for 160 years, bnsf, the engine that connects us. ♪ >> the william and flora hewlett foundation. for more than 50 years advancing ideas and supporting institutions to promote a better world at the hewlett.org. >> supporting social entrepreneurs and their solutions to the world's most

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hello everyone and welcome to amanpour and company. here's what's coming up. the taliban orders female news readers to cover their faces. we report from afghanistan's leading station. then, after that bomb shell report saying the united states shares the blame for the taliban's takeover, i speak to the special inspector general who wrote it. also ahead, the man trying to save this country's rich cultural herite. he's of the afghanistan national institute of music. plus, michelle talks about the baby formula