>> president biden's troubles at home and abroad. >> for an american president to be silent on the issue of human rights is inconsistent with who we are and who i am. >> president biden meets face-to-face with the saudi prince, a leader he once promised to make a pariah. across the world, a key democratic senator deals the president and his agenda a major blow. >> this was not a spontaneous call to action, but rather a deliberate strategy decided upon in advance by the president. >> alarming new details from this week's january 6 committee hearing. >> it got to the point where the screaming was completely out there. and what they were proposing i thought was nuts. >> i don't think any of these people were providing the

president with good advice. >> explosive testimony, including for the first time from president comes white house counsel as the cmittee gears up for the last in this series of public hearings. next. ♪ >> this is washingtonweek. corporate funding is provided by. >> consumer cellular. additional funding provided by for the ewan foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. sandra and carl delaying magnuson. rose herschel and andy shreve's. robert and susan rosenbaum, public broadcasting, and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> good evening and welcome to washingtonweek.

a high stakes dance on the world stage is underway as president biden meets with saudi arabia's controversial crown prince. a powerbroker in the middle east, and the man u.s. intelligence agencies determined approved the brutal murder of jamaal khashoggi. >> respect to the murder of jamaal khashoggi, raising at the top of the meeting. >> he basically said he was not personally responsible for it. i indicated he was. >> the president's domestic agenda and hopes of climate change activists have crashed into a joe mansion wall. it comes as inflation numbers showed a historic spike, the highest since 1981. joining me tonight is my colleague, he's in saudi arabia. joining me at the table in studio, hans nichol. political reporter for axios.

and the wall street reporter for the white. let me start with you with a set 3:00 a.m. local time. staying awake for us. bring us the latest from saudi arabia and what president biden is getting out of this trip. >> he's getting a few things. he certainly wants to get out more saudi and opec plus oil production to bring down gas prices. we can talk about it, whether it is even possible. i think he's getting, as u.s. officials would put it, avoiding a vacuum in the middle east when it comes to the u.s. thu.s. has receded, its influence has receded in this region over the last few years. biden trying to stem that tide, questioning whether it is possible, people would be. and in israel, it is imptant for joe biden to be seen politically supporting israeli officials. frankly, he believes in it.

he has been for a half-century a big supporter for israel. and israel getting what it wants , so i think it is on those three levels. an overarching this is more regional cooperation. but also, military and intelligence services across the region taking it upon themselves to cooperate because they see a common enemy in iran. >> nick talked about the goals from the biden administration. a picture sometimes can dominate things. let's talk about the fist bump. we knew we were going to wonder the interaction between president biden and mohammed bin salamon. they did have a fist bump. this is someone who is known for human rights abuses, the u.s. has said that. involved in a murder. did the saudi's get what they wanted just from that photo? did the u.s. concede something?

>> there is clearly a lot of discussion before hand. whether it was going to be a handshake or fist bump. we got the answer today. and the photo, the saudi's released it quickly after. it raises questions depending on what the president accomplishes. whether it was worth it or not. we are hearing some democrats raising that point. he tweeted today saying the photo shows the grip autocrats in the middle east still hold on the u.s. and foreign policy because of them being oil-rich and having that grip on the u.s.. >> let's get into the why. you reported the president was not skipping and leaping into this visit. but he had to go. >> oil. they had been talking about this since february, trying to attach and find some moment for the president to smooth things over for the saudi's and pump more oil.

it is a basic fact of hydrocarbons. they have more underneath their ground and can pull them out quickly. officials know the world needs oil, they know they are facing energy shortages, natural gas, how cold the europe winter is going to be. and they were willing to risk, they had the prospect for more oil. the risk being this photo. it is hard to say the long-term damage of this photo. if it will be glossed over, or stick with people. i have a theory that covering some foreign trip, the side releasing something first is the site happi with it. sometimes you get statements to say the leaders had a productive conversation, code for that they were yelling at each other. whoever releases the photo first tends to want to get out front and once that image. >> here was the saudi's releasing it first.

>> it was a saudi photographer. but like the white house wasn't dying to release it. you can check out the feeds to what extent the photo plays in to the overall biden mythology they want to put out. >> from what he's saying, we could talk about oil and gas prices. does this trip have any effect on oil and gas prices in reality? >> a couple of points. i asked the deputy foreign minister in saudi arabia about whether they would push opec plus to release more oil as the national security advisor suggested, or they would release more of themselves. he did not say yes. he did not say no. he said they have been producing more oil in the last nine

months, that they have taken steps to think about high gas prices, and not committing to take further steps to try and release enough oil to make a difference. point number two is whether the uae and saudi arabia can release more oil. we know mohammed bin's oman -- mohammed bin salamon told micron a few weeks ago at the g7 he did not think there was enough oil that the uae and saudi could pump in the next six months to affect gas prices in the u.s.. that is from the horses mouth in abu dhabi. we know that regional officials do not think they are pumping more will lead to the kind of political benefit you guys are talking about in the studio. between those things, possibly. seems like the national security advisor and president would not

be confident about more oil coming if they were to get private reassurances. whether we see a difference is another question. >> talking about neither saying yes or no. an american official not exactly saying yes or no, that is joe mansion. he says right now, he is a no o the climate change portion of the biden agenda. i think a lot of democrats think it means he's a no forever. take us into what is happening and how big a deal it is. >> he is a know this month. this was this last 24 hours. joe mansion went to amy schumer, and schumer said i'm not going to be there on a broader package for climate and energy. he had always talked about $300 billion, generally a ballpark. this morning he clarifies, calls into a wesrn virginia radio show we all listened to for the

first time. he calls in and says i'm from medicare doing renegotiating drugs. something for the health care changes, and taking a lot of money, $240 billion toward deficit reduction. but nothing on climate and energy. he wants to wait for the inflation numbers. you know they will, later on in august when the cpi number hits. that has always been the barometer. he h been talking about this for months. he felt his theory of the case has been invalidated, and he's not in the position to move when inflation is this hot. >> they are not moving warmly toward anything. joe mansion has effectively had a veto pen on this president. it might sound like a ke, but i mean it in cearley, is joe mansion defining the biden presidency? >> he certainly is.

basically prime minister joe mansion at this point. the president knows that and has tried to negotiate directly with joe mansion. it has not worked out. the president was asked if he thinks joe msion is negotiating in good faith. the president basically said i don't know. he did not really answer anything on that front. but joe mansion has every senator in the senate. joe mansion is wielding the power over and over again. the fact the white house pitched this massive proposal, mainly because of joe mansion, the package has slimmed down over the months. basically to the bare minimum. the president said they should go forward on it. it seems all they are going to get. >> i want to bring this back to you.

you spent a lot of time in the region, how is president bid seeing their? >> it is not just president biden. we have to call a spade a spade. a lot of governments in the middle east see the u.s. as a receding power. i think the trump administration's efforts were to stem that tied and accelerate what was already happening, cooperation between israel and the sunni government. as a response to the iranian threat and what they saw as the biden and a ministrations applet three -- appa three. some told me that during the trump administration, not being sure what trump was up to. so we saw the abraham accords and all of this momentum between the governments that saw iran as a mutual threat.

the biden adam nest ration jumping on that momentum. they are simply trying to accelerate things. and saudi is the crown jewel of that effort of normalization. israeli officials, saudi originals -- officials, they say if they took any kinds of steps toward normalization, it would be huge. that is not going to happen. not until king mohammed bin's oman dies. and until they have a better relationship. but that is really where the momentum is going. the u.s. is part of that. but that roommate -- but that was started irrespective of u.s. policy. >> fascinating these tectonic plates around the world defined by one man sometimes, sometimes not. sometimes one man has to go along with them. thank you for joining us, sharing reporting, staying up past your normal waking hours.

>> tuesday, the house committee investigating the january 6 attack held its seventh public hearing they charged president trump called his supporters to the capital but wanted it to seem impromptu. we heard a salvo of soundbites about an unhinged oval office meeting including discussions of declaring martial law and the federal government seizing voting machines. since that meeting came news the secret service deleted text messages from january 5 and sixth of 2021. joining us is luc broadwater. my colleague in the halls on the hill thank you for joining us. i want to start with a question about thinking about the narrative arc of this committee over seven hearings. what do you think they were trying to connect? what dots were they trying to connect? >> are think if you look at each

of the hearings as a big picture, they suggest almost every time a different avenue of wrongdoing by president trump. you look at some of the earlier hearings, they were suggesting the fake elector scheme, obstructing n official proceeding of congress. suggesting defrauding the american people. even his own donors. i think what we are going to see at this next hearing is a lot of talk about their election of duty. that could potentially have legal implications, but it definitely has ethical and political explanations for the former president. each of these hearings is a different avenue that the january sixth committee is suggesting to the public and justice department this is an area to investigate, and here are a lot of details and facts

presenting a pretty damning case about the former president. >> tell me about the president, where we are with other charges for the trump administratn and those around it? >> we know that merrick garland is under increasing pressure to do something. with every hearing, we see more evidence. the community -- committee has been connecting a lot of the dots. it has put pressure on officials to do something. we heard from congresswoman liz cheney, who brought another instance of witness tampering. she said they referred the case to the department of justice. they are sharing more information between the committee and department of justice. we will see how the case -- department of justice is able to build a case. but they are under a lot of pressure. >> patsy pallone set for eight hours -- pat sipple only sat for

eight hours. we saw testimony this week. how significant of a figure is the former white house counsel? >> he's providing an enormous amount of intelligence and insight about what was happening leading up to and the j -- day of january 6. there were questions whether he would testify or vote executive privilege. might be in a better position to adjudicate on what is new and what we have learned. it seems a lot of the facts, we have kind of known. there were great reporting from the times. but they are tying it all together. i like how they talked about different avenues, different lines of attacks on the president. the big question is how much are weearning new things or are the proving things that are already new? i would be curious on what

everyone else has to say. >> i have a feeling you might dispute that. despite the tremendous amount of work the new york times has done, are we hearing new things? >> we are. probably nin -- 89% has been reported. january 6, the american press corps does a phenomenal job investigating it. you have some great books written. all-star teams in the major outlets digging into this nonstop. each hearing may surprise you with something. some text messages i've never seen, or some deposition i've never heard before. we have learned from these hearings with the names of specific congress members who allegedly have sock pardons. really judy anna, you hear about allegations of witness tampering we did not know about.

i think each hearing presents new evidence. what really stuck out to me was the text messages with the rally planners. having these private conversations, having this second secret rally near the capital. it has to appear unexpected. that was some new evidence we had not heard before about people keeping the plans to bring the crowds to the capital quietly. >> i also think it is important to report these things. but as we learned in 2016, with a lot of reporters covering, later president donald trump, people are not reporting -- reading reporting. it is one thing to put in print and see it in a committee hearing and have that message get across to the people. some of these hearings have gone decent.

are these breaking through to the public? the people with the best antenna on that are republicans nervous it will their attempt to take over the house and senate. republicans privately, these hearings have done decent job, a fairly good job exposing what democrats say was a derelictio of duty, potential insurrection, all of the different verbs we hear. republicans are saying i think this committee is breaking through. you talk to as many republicans as i do. >> they went int this thinking they didn't need a strategy. their strategy with no strategy. but that has backfired. part of it is many witnesses have been republicans. liz cheney, the vice chairman of the committee and in the proceedings teased what you mentioned earlier. a bombshell.

>> tried to call a witness in our investigation. that person declined to ansr or respond to president trump's call. their lawyer alerted us. this committee has supplied that information to the department of justice. >> this was a fascinating moment. a criminal charge. but it was liz cheney bringing it up at the very end, mentioning it. i don't think most committee members knew that she was going to do it. i have reporting on this. i'm sure your reporting, she is very assertive. she's really pushing the committee. >> i would say liz cheney is the most powerful behind-the-scenes driving force in the committee. everyone talks about having very aggressive communities, fierce fighters against donald trump.

he says liz cheney is tougher and more aggressive than we are behind the scenes. liz cheney, because of her role with the so-called gold team, the team investigating donald trump, she is overseeing that team. she has exits -- access that other members and staff sometimes don't have. i hear from that who are surprised by what she will bring out the last minute. but that is part of the success and drama of these hearings. they have teasers and cliffhangers. they embrace the sort of elements of television not normally present in a capitol hill hearing. an average of 14 million viewers, i think is unheard of for your normal congressional hearing. >> they do not have that kind of drama.

the stak were just as high. i want to ask all of you, we have probably set on panels no one thinks it will impact the midterms, we will see. could this affect something bigger in terms of how americans see what happened, how americans should act themselves and their neighbors? >> interesting public perception question. the most lasting impact or whether or not they will result in criminal referrals and if the department of justice will indict the former president and miss him from running in 2024. that is no small decision for any attorney general to make. are there criminal referrals, and does the justice department act on them? i don't know the answer. >> the criminal referral discussion, the committee postponed until they release their report in september. it seems a most people i talked to in the committee think it is

a good idea. there are some skeptics they don't want to look like they are unduly influencing the justice department. any charges against trump and his allies should seem like they are unaffected by politics. but the committee has done so much public, calling for a justice department investigation, i don't know how you put the genie back in the box. they said merrick garland, do your job, and adam schiff was just on tv criticizing the slowness of the investigation. so they have been pretty open about what they want the justice department to do. >> we love tangible things like criminal charges. but can this move anyone's psyche or culture? >> i think we always inc. of things politically. in the midterms, it is because the economy is on everyone's minds. it will not move things. looking ahead to 2024 and how people think about government and the presidency, it might raise questions about the chaotic time we went through

during the trump presidency and whether they want to see that again, given he might be announcing sometime in the fall. i don't know if it will change much. but maybe politically looking ahead to 2024, it could have impact. >> we will see. >> thank you all. we have talked about this so long. appreciate it. thank you for joining us. before we go, don't forget to watch pbs news weekend for the latest on the ground in saudi arabia as president biden wraps up his trip saturday on pbs news weekend. thank you for joining us. good night from washington. >> corporate funding for washingtonweek provided by.

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