>> the january 6 committee's case against trump. >> this committee will demand a full accounting to every american of the event of january 6th. it is our obligation to seek donald trump's testimony. >> in a historic move, the january 6 committee votes to subpoena former president trump. >> everybody on the floor is putting on the gas masks to prepare for a breach. >> releases dramatic, never before seen video. >> stunned by violence. and stunned by the president's apparent indifference to the violence. >> and reveals testimony about

trump's actions in the days surrounding the attack. >> any future president inclined to attempt what donald trump did in 2020 has now learned not to install people who could stand in the way. >> the committee sounded the alarm on ongoing threats to american democracy. next. >> this is washington week. corporatfunding is provided by. >> for 25 years, consumer cellular's goal has been to provide wireless service to help people communicate and connect. we offer a variety of no contract plans and a customer teaman help find one to fit you. visit consumer cellular.tv. >> additional funding provided by -- the yuen foundation. committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. sandra and carl delay-magnuson.

rose hirschel and andy shreeves. robert and susan rosenbaum. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> once agn from washington, moderator yamiche alcindor. >> good evening and welcome to washington week. on thursday in what is expected to be its last hearing for the midterm elections, the january 6th committee voted to subpoena former president donald trump. moments before the decision, vice and republican liz cheney explained the reasoning of lawmakers. >> we must seek the testimony under oh of january 6th central player. this afternoon, i am offering the resolution that the committee direct the chairman to issue a subpoena for relevant

documents and testimony under oh from donald john trump. >> after the vote, president trump wrote "why did they wait until the very end, the final moments of their last meeting? because the committee is a total bust, it has only served to further divide our country." meanwhile during the meeting, the committee revealed significant new evidence including trump aids testifying trump acknowledged he lost the 2020 election. the former white house aide, cassidy hutchinson, describing his angry reaction when the supreme court declined the legal challenge to the election results. >> the president said something to the effect of i don't want people to know -- figure it out, we need to figure it out. i don't want people to know we lost. >> the committee showed new video featuring house speaker nancy pelosi, former vice president mike pence, and other lawmakers in leadership during the attack. >> they are just breaking windows, doing all kinds of --

they said somebody was shot. it is horrendous. all at the instigation of the president of the united states. >> their best information is they believe the house and the senate will be able to -- in roughly an hour. >> still striking to see it again. lawmakers said there are lingering questions about what the secret service feel about the violence and when. joining me to discuss this and more, a national political reporter for the new york times and host of the podcast the run-up. nicholas wu, and joining me here in studio, dan bowles, chief correspondent at the washington post. and congressional correspondent for nbc news. you broke the news that former president trump was going to be

subpoenaed by the committee. why are they doing this right now, given they have investigated this and have talked to people for months? >> they have been asking this question for months. once it was cleared through the first hearings, the idea was they were driving at the former president in each segment they were doing. the question was what will happen when you successfully convince people trump had a role to play? now we have at least one of their answers to it. they're subpoenaing the former president to show the country they are doing all they can't talk tthe former president -- all they can to talk to the former president, but if they do go through the referral route, it will be a unanimous decision. liz cheney responded to the question of why wait so long today? in a speech she said we wanted to make sure all of the evidence they had against trump, and over nine hearings this year, they did that. >> do we think he's going to show up? >> i don't think it is likely.

this is something the members have all been aware of. in conversations with them, as they have been talking as a group, they said we know it is a very different ask to make of mike pence, he would likely consider coming forward with the subpoena. donald trump is a master at running out the clock and tying things up like this in court. you even saw in the 14 page letter, there is no yes or no. there are a lot of false claims, things he has set on the campaign trail, and pictures of crowds. beyond that, no yes or no on whether he will comply. >> you are running around the hill getting this information. what is your sense of former president trump's interest coming before this committee and how far the committee is willing to go? president trump is going off saying these are angry, it is a witchhunt, i wonder what your sense is of reporting? >> certainly some skepticism

that the former president would never actually come in to testify. i recall congress has called the former president to testify before during the russia investigation, right after januaryixth. congressman jamie raskin, mentioning yesterday on cnn he called trump to testify, and they hope for a different response. members of the committee are somewhat holding their breath. at the same time, there is always a possibility trump could kind of go rogue in some ways and decide i do want to come and talk to the committee and lay out his side of the story. he is someone who has an interest in putting out his own side of it. even if it involves these falsehoods and false equivalencies. it remains to be seen how it will play out. it is worth noting the committee subpoena, it is unclear if it is

going out to the former president or not. i think once we get a look at what exactly the subpoena asks for, we will see the haggling between the committee and former president. >> there are some who see this committee subpoena as a political move. what do you make of the politics and motivation? >> it is a political move, a theatrical move in some ways. donald trump loves theater. he probably in some ways should have appreciated it was coming at him. i don't think there's any realistic chance he is going to appear, in part because he would be under oh and it would be a very difficult situation for him to answer a lot of questions under old. the prospect of that is mostly nil. i think the value of this is for the committee to say we made an effort, but it is also a little bit of a calling his bluff. i think we all kind of know where this ends.

but he will run out the clock. they won't get his testimony, but they will have made the effort symbolically and leave it at that. >> instead it seems there is a dare from the committee. the new york times is reporting former president trump has been telling aids he favors testifying. what is your sense of the politics? what are the benefits for former president trump if he were to come in and talk to the committee? >> that reporting was interesting. our colleagues know president trump and those around him don't necessarily nt to immediately reject the subpoena. because of the love of the hat tricks, or his history of using television to really bolster his political brand, there might be some hope in this. i thi what he mentioned about being under old, we should see that as a kind of long shot. it is notable there wasn't an immediate rejection. president trump has really

created a base by grievance. him lashing out against that committee, he once again tries to play the card to rile up the republican base ahead of the midterms. the committee has done a kind of all-encompassing job of laying out the factual evidence from what we know was unprecedented actions for the president to strike at the heart of democracy on that day and the days following. he's betting the republican base is so behind him, they will make his grievances their own. and use it as a motivating factor come november. i don't think that is out of the question. republicans have rallied around him before. i don't think we should discount that. >> we should not discount that. what is your sense of criminal referrals? liz cheney was asked about whether the former president broke the law. she said no question about the answer. she said the committee has the responsibility to make decisions about criminal referrals. she was careful to say she did

not want to get in front of the committee. what is your sense about how far the committee is willing to take it and if criminal referrals will come out of it? >> they can do it, in terms of what happens, it doesn't matter. congress doesn't do that. that is the job of the department of justice. during the summer, there was a sense from the committee that the doj had not done a lot of their homewor it is clear now where we are in october that the doj has really ramped up the investigations they are doing. there are multiple of them. at this point, the committee may do a criminal referral to show they are there to hold the former president accountable. you also see the committee shifting as they turn towards their final report. functioning on dual planes. they want to hold trump accountable, but want to shore up the larger system. you heard liz cheney talking about the fact democracy was upheld because you had good faith actors willing to keep it

intact. that might not be the case next ti. that is what their final recommendations are going to focus on. it is the electoral count forum that they have put forward in the house, there is a complement three senate bill with key differences. there's still optimism it will get past. those are the fields they are working on. it is trump, but they don't want anyone else to take advantage of the system the next time around. >> it is so striking hearing liz cheney say a key lesson is the system is only hold because there are good people in place. what do you make of that given trump is still at the helm of the gop, it is a clear and present danger of historic proportions in a lot of people's minds? >> you are right about that. couple it with the fact there are hundreds of republican candidates on the ballot this fall who are election deniers in

one form or another, you can see the confluence of donald trump continuing to push the big lie and people who believe the lie potentially in position to influence future elections. that is a very worrisome prospect for anyone who cares seriously about the state of democracy. >> going back to what happened during the hearing, we talked about the roger stone video last week because it was put out before the hearing. to hear roger stone say f voting with a curse word, we are going straight to violence, what more did we hear about and what did we learn about the premeditated planning before november 2020 of trump and the people around him when it came to saying that election was stolen? >> the stone documentary was all part of the committee effort to show this plan, this plunge to

contend election results to overturn the will of the voters was in the works even before election day. the committee showed this memo from the head of the conservative group judicial watch sending in propose language to the president about how he should declare victory. that is what we saw him do. had not necessarily been called yet, but we saw trump say he won the election. this is part of the committee's attempt to draw a line to show how it was a premeditated that ran from election day and the threat continues up through the present day. >> thinking about the threat, part of what was striking about the hearing, you hearsome wise how -- white house aides say trump said to multiple people "i lost, i'm embarrassed, i don't want this to be here, i am angry. look at this guy on tv. i can't believe i lost to him. what is the significance of that

when we think about the fact trump is continuing to live? >> this has been a question from some. it is a distinction without the difference. whether he believed that election was stolen or not, he certainly acted in a way that really spoke and motivated supporters to do what they did on january 6. it has been a curiosity about whether the former president actually believed that election was stolen and was speaking what was a core belief, or if it was something he was acting on to cover up the fact he lost. if we are to believe the testimony, it would be the laughter, he was acknowledging he lost, but was still going out to push those lies about the election. that has had a real human consequences. in, but across the country, it is not just on the governor level, you see the election

deniers at the state level, poll watchers intimidated. the apparatus of what president trump has inspired with his false election claims is massive. we cannot overstate how those false claims have really motivated and antidemocratic wing within the republican party. this is true across the country, particularly in swing states in places like arizona where we see election deniers successful in the primary. >> dan is talking about not overstating the impact of this and the consequences. it is not hard to overstate the real worry and shock that was going on in that building. the expectations were so high. what new video will we see? then i saw nancy pelosi and mike pence, and i got goosebumps watching them taking e helm of the country and saying we've got to figure this out. >> those were startling and

revealing videos we saw yesterday. it did take us inside in that chamber, or where they were being held in a way we had not really thought much about. we knew they were sequestered, but we did not know what was going on other than some were pleading for help. to see the interaction, particularly between the speaker and former vice president, basically united in their desire to get back and finish the job as quickly as they could. i was struck by another thing. the strength of speaker pelosi. when you look athe assembled leadership of the congress and on the phone, the president of the senate and vice president pence, you see her temperament determination, her drive, and in some ways, the deference others pay to her.

it was revealing in that way as to how she stands in the hierarchy of leadership. >> you wrote the book on women and leaders. i want to get your sense as you cover her every day. >> in part because i wrote the book on women and the presidency , i got text messages saying are you sure we've never had a female president. that remains a history we have not yet made. at the same time, you watch the way speaker pelosi, alongside these republican and democratic leaders were filling the void donald trump had left by his complete and utter inaction by what was happening on capitol hill. that vacuum allows us to speak to the deference and respect speaker pelosi commands on capitol hill. also the fact in this moment of chaos, when we asked voters to consider who is a good president, we asked her to think about the commander-in-chief test, we want at the helm with chaos raining around the world and our country. it is clear president trump left that vacuum to be filled by several people in the line of

succession to the presidency. including his vice president, and watching them work in bipartisan fashion, politics was not present in the name of a peaceful transfer of power, that video was so striking for many reasons, that is one of the first things i thought of. >> it was striking. another thing was part of the hearing, the secret service. they played a role, there were images attached to it pete angler saying they will be recalling witnesses to look at the possible obstruction of justice. what more do we know about the secret service and what lawmakers are looking to? >> this is part of a huge tranche of information secret service had turned over to the committee fairly recently. they got over one million different records from the secret service. emails, messages, other random electronic documents. the committee is still going through them. they were able to use a lot of that during yesterday's hearing. presenting these messages from

secret service agents and officis and warning of the potential for violence. we even got as granular in detail as to see messages from agents concern for mike pence's safety after trump posted the tweet attacking the vice president. so this is one of the large unexplored areas for the select committee and other congressional committees. the secret service had long been a subject of skepticism for the select committee. we knew this mass solution of text messages that was due to a tech upgrade. and you had those key witnesses the committee had casted some doubt on. so this is something that could be a remaining avenue of exploration. even as they are winding down and writing this final report. >> i want to ask more about the midterms. talk about unexplored, ginni

thomas was not part of the hearing. anything about that? >> even capitol hill when they were doing the deposition, their warehouse votes. we were asking about what they were hearing at that point. the only news betty thompson gave was jenny thompson was telling them she believed the was stolen. the other interesting thing talking about the secret service is my colleague and i reported for nbc news tonight that they are asking the secret service for any communications they may have had with members of e oath keepers. this came after one of the cases in federal court regarding the head of the oath keepers, someone testifying he was in touch with the secret service. now the committee is exploring that after we were asking what the level of cooperation had been from the secret service. as they are writing their final report, they are fact gathering. >> we talk about all of this, the hearing. betty thompson hoping people who were skeptical would tune . what is your sense of how it will make out in the midterms?

>> the committee has achieved the goal of creating a historical record about the actions of replicans and former president trump. if there is a political goal to shift the conversation of the midterms, we have not seen that really cutting through. i think some key signs are the danger democrat themselves are not really zeroing in the actions of the committee or the hearing yesterday as a key campaign talking point. we see them fundraising in some senses. there is still an elections centering around the economy and more policy issues. people's feelings about president biden and the supreme court's actions on abortion. so we have not seen the committee cutting through fully. democrats are certainly making the argument republicans are not good stewards of democracy, and that itself is a reason to reject them. the problem they have is it is not just a falsehood about the

election dictated by donald trump to his supporters, but one many supporters believe alongside the president. as we have seen in the primaries and as we look forward towards the midterms, democracy is on the ballot in a lot of cases. but for a lot of people, they already have grand questions that started before 2020 and are continuing. so there is a real open question on which this will go in november. >> talk about herschel walker, georgia. there is a debate going on. you talked to stacey abrams. talk about the challenges democrats and republicans are facing. >> georgia has emerged that a key state. it changed from 2020 when you saw those core progressive constituencies power a lot of the democratic narrative. we are seeing moderate drives. raphael warnock and the incumbent senator has fared better because of we believe the

scandals hurting his opponents. that allowed him to create a bigger lead than the democratic gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams. republicans have rallied around herschel walker and feel if they align the republican base with moderate republicans, he can ride to winning on the coattails of governor brian kemp. we will watch how many republicans come to his side. >> president biden sat down for an interview with cnn's jay tapper. is trying to make the case along demoats. what is your sense of impact president biden might have? >> his impact is twofold. he's trying to raise a lot of money. that is the principal effect he's having. the second effect is he threatens to drag down democratic candidates. what we see in many states, they are outperforming his approval ratings by a significant margin. that is a real drag they will have to carry on their shoulders through november.

he's going to try and continue to put the focus on what he calls the mugger republicans. that has a with people. when we look at the impact of the january 6 committee, one of the things it has done with election deniers, it's reminded some voters of the radicalization of the republican party and the consequences of turning control of the house and may the senate over to that party, which is a trump ian party. i think the president and his focus will be trying to keep reminding people of that. >> a lot to talk about, we will watch it. thank you to our panelists for joining us and sharing reporting. tune in saturday to pbs news weekend. off bennett will report on two georgia races to decide control of the u.s. senate and direction of the country. thank you for joining us. good night from washington. >> washington week is provided

by consumer cellular. additional funding provided by two the yuen foundation. committed to bridging cultural differences in our committees. rose hirschel and andy shreeves. robert and susan rosenbaum. the corporation for public broadcasting. and contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

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