♪ amna: good evening and welcome. i'm amna nawaz. judy woodruff is away. on "the newshour" tonight... in the dark -- russia targets ukraine's power supply, causing widespread blackouts, but ukrainian civilians remain defiant. then... facing off -- candidates in high-profile contests spar over key issues on the debate stage, while others outright refuse to confront their opponents. and... drying up -- utah's great salt lake shrinks to unsustainable levels amid a decades-long megadrought. >> this is the foundation of the great salt lake ecosystem. and we're seeing it crash and die right before our eyes. amna: all that and more on tonight's "pbs newshour." ♪

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>> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewe like you. thank you. amna: ukraine is sounding new alarms tonight about russia's rain of destruction on its water and power supplies. ukrainian president zelenskyy says missile and drone strikes have knocked out nearly one-third of the country's power plants in the last week. today, strikes on the city of zhytomyr blacked out all 250,000 residents for a time. we'll take a closer look after the news summary.

in france, tens of thousands walked off their jobs today, striking for pay hikes to keep up with decades-high inflation. the work stoppages built on recent walkouts at oil refineries that have led to long lines at gas stations. today, it snowballed to include teachers, rail workers and hospital employees. they said they have to have compensation for soaring prices. gabriel: the increase of the cost of living is major. there's a rise in the price of basic goods but also a very important increase in energy costs. all of this has an impact on salaries. amna: strikes have also swept other parts of europe as the continent teeters toward recession. the ongoing protests led by women and girls in iran spread today to a rock climber -- elnaz rekabi, who did not wear a mandatory hijab while competing for her country. that was sunday in south korea. she left abruptly today. a statement on her instagram page said not wearing the hija was unintentional.

activists and independent reports said rekabi was forced back to iran and could be jailed. the protests were sparked by the death of mahsa amini after her arrest for dress code violations. a new report says afghanistan's ruling taliban tied up and executed 27 men last month in a hunt for resistance fighters. the open-source afghan witness project verified a video showing taliban fighters firing into one group of men for 20 seconds. the group calls the killings an "orchestrated purge." the taliban has claimed the men were killed in battle. back in this country, the french cement company lafarge pleaded guilty in new york to paying millions of dollars to the islamic state terrorist group. the payments ensured that isis would let a lafarge plant in syria remain open. the company now faces nearly $780 million in u.s. penalties. president biden vowed today that his top priority will be legalizing abortion nationwide

if democrats keep control of congress. the president spoke in washington, 3 weeks before the midterm elections. he said everything depends on sending more democrats to washington. pres. biden: if we do that, here's the promise i make to you and the american people. the first bill i send to the congress will be to codify roe vs wade. [applause] and when congress passes it, i'll sign it in january, 50 years after roe was first decided as the law of the land. amna: for that to happen, democrats would have to hold the house of representatives and the senate and abolish the filibuster, the 60-vote requirement for most bills to advance in the senate. a federal jury in virginia acquitted igor danchenko today of lying about his ties to a discredited dossier on then-candidate donald trump. he helped create much of the so-called steele dossier. it included allegations that the 2016 trump campaign colluded with russia.

a special counsel investigated the fbi's probe of those allegations. this was the third case resulting from that investigation. amazon workers at a warehouse in upstate new york have overwhelmingly voted against unionizing. today's announcement said 66 percent of the votes opposed joining a union composed of current and former amazon employees. it's the fourth such election at an amazon facility this year. unions have won one and lost two. the other remains too close to call. and, on wall street -- stocks kept monday's rally going, as a number of companies reported solid profits for the third quarter. major indexes rose roughly 1 percent. the dow jones industrial average gained 338 points to close at 30,523. the nasdaq was up 96 points. the s&p 500 added 42. still to come on "the newshour"... a look at key issues voters will see on their ballots in the upcoming election... what's causing the great salt

lake to dry up... a photographer documents immigration to the southern border and life inside a detention facility... plus much more. >> this is "the pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington, and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. amna: returning to the war in ukraine -- as we reported, ukraine's president said today that roughly 30 percent of ukraine's power generation has been attacked and knocked offline by new russian attacks. nick schifrin looks at a ukraine partially in the dark, as the cold descends almost eight months into the war. nick: in southern ukraine today this is all that's left of a residential building a giant crater where a home stood for decades. destruction and death arrived from a clear blue sky. the price of russian rockets that elude ukraine's air

defenses, this civilian's life as he slept. and the country's infrastructure. today russia struck this combined heat and power plant in dnipro. for the last month russia has targeted ukraine's electricity grid, especially substations that serve as junction points between cities. nearly all of ukraine's substations have been damaged, and president volodymyr zelenskyy admitted today 30 percent of the country's power plants have been destroyed. that means in eastern cities like kivsharivka, where the destruction is still fresh, residents live without electricity or heat. 9-year-old artem panchenko helps his grandmother iryna prepare dinner. he eats in the dark. a family powerless to stop what's coming. they have to cook outside, on the fire. winter in eastern ukraine is already arriving. artem: it's really cold. i'm sleeping in my clothes in my apartment. suriya: i think it can be safely assumed that what russia is trying to do is freeze ukraine

into submission. nick: suriya jayanti is a senior fellow at the atlantic council and co-founder of na, a u.s.-ukrainian company focused on green energy transition. she says damaged infrastructure hurts ukraine's civilians and military. and that ukraine and russia are playing cat and mouse -- ukraine fixes damage, and russia strikes it again. suriya: so this seems to be a strike at the nervous system of ukraine's resistance. this is going to be a very, very long, very cold and very dark winter for ukraine. nick: and yet, ukrainians remain resilient. in a new gallup poll released today, 70 percent say ukraine should continue fighting until it wins. and of those, 91 percent define victory as when all territory lost between 2014 and now is regained, including crimea. but that could be more difficult, now that russia is using iranian made kamikaze drones that are 8 feet wide and carry about 100 pounds of explosives.

russia's launched hundreds of drones. ukraine has managed to shoot many of them down. but even a handful that get through can cause major damage and give russia a new weapon of war. to further discuss the war in ukraine, we turn to samuel bendett, a russia military analyst at the center for navel analysis. thank you very much and welcome to the newshour. over the course of the war, russia has at times restrained itself from attacking infrastructure targets, but the last few weeks we have seen countless strikes across the country and now, including using these kamikaze drones. is this a shift in tactics? samuel: in a way, it is, it is a response to ukraine's successful attacks against russian forces in the east and south of the country, and the russian realization it must do something to try and stem the advance and

cause a certain level of attrition and certain level of pain on the ukrainian defense industry, on the population and the military. nick: why do you think russia has turned to these iranian drones? samuel: russia has a certain capability that it was unable to put in the field at scale. iran was able to offer a significant capability to the russians in the form of munitions as well as several combat drones. these are relatively cheap and inexpensive drones by comparison to the damage they can cause. to pressure, this represents a significant capability, an increase in their ability to strike ukrainian targe. nick: the ability for russia to loiter above a target, as you are saying, these drones give russia the ability to do much does that give russia some kind

of edge in the war strategically that it did not have before? samuel: the drones that were used in recent strikes have a range of up to 200 kilometers, and so this represents a significant increase in russian capabilities because now a bulk of the ukrainian population, it's military and industry are in range of these munitions when launched from the southeast of the country. nick: does ukraine have the ability to defend itself against these, because he drones? samuel: absolutely it does, and it has shut down most of these drones, more than three quarters have been lost in their attacks. the whole point of launching munitions in waves is a lot of them will be lost, but a few of them will make it past the air defenses. these drones basically saturate your defense capabilities. one or two has to make it through to really cause damage and that's what we have seen in recent attacks. nick: that brings us to those air defenses.

ukraine has been asking for more from the u.s., from europe. the u.s. has provided some systems and is providing more advanced systems, as is germany, and possibly other western european countries. talk about how difficult it is too great a layered system of fense thatan really protect ukraine not only from these drones, but fromarger russian missiles as well. samuel: it is a challenge. these drones fly low, they fly slow, they have a relatively small radar signatures so they cannot always be seen and identified by the early warning radar. they could be heard before they are seen because they have a relatively cheap, civilian style motor. when the population sees the drone in the immediate facility -- immediate vicinity, it is probably too late to do anything. however, robust electronic warfare defenses are capable of

interfering with these drones's fly patterns. the use cheap, civilian gps systems that can be interfered with. this is where some of the successes against these drones has been visible lately. nick: nearly all of ukraine's substations as well as distribution lines for electricity as well as heat have been destroyed. those can be fixed in a matter of days. zelenskyy admitted today 30% of power plants have also been destroyed and that takes a longer time to fix. does that have not only civilian applications but military implications? samuel: absolutely. right now, ukrainian civilian and military efforts are interlinked. a lot of the resources are part of the civilian and military effort. at the same time, this doesn't necessarily appear to stem ukrainian resolve in the face of

these attacks, and it is not likely these drones will have an effect on the ukrainian population that russia probably intends. what we are in relatively uncharted territory. if russia continues to launch these drugs on a daily -- these strikes on a daily basis, there is a possible plan for russia to acquire over 2000 of these, and if they will be used against the ukrainian military and civilian info structure, it becomes a different type of war. nick: you cain's terrain gets very difficult across when it becomes muddy, that is in the next few weeks. over the winter, will both sides continue to keep fighting and try to push the frontline forward? samuel: both sides are preparing for winter warfare. ukrainians are preparing, russians are preparing, russian volunteers are fundraising for thermal underwear and warm clothes for soldiers. there is every bit of resolve on both sides to fight into the winter to try and essentially,

for the ukraine to push the russians further south and east for the russians, to reverse some of the ukrainian advances. nick: samuel, thank you very much. samuel: thank you. ♪ amna: the great salt lake in utah is the greatest body without access to the sea. a growing population is taking more water before the lake can refill. scientists say the resulting record-low water levels in recent years are worrying. stephanie sy explored the lake both on and off the water to learn more. stephanie: reaching the waters of the great salt lake from almost any direction these days is a hike, and brian footen is carrying a heavy load.

founder of the earthviews conservation society, he's equipped a kayak with cameras and sensors -- mobile tools to map the receding shoreline. brian: this is going to log water quality data every 10 seconds. things like temperature, dissolved oxygen. stephanie: satellite images capture the extent of the lake's shrinkage since 1985, but footen says there is nothing like bringing the public right to its dwindling surface. through his interactive website. brian: it doesn't take, you know, charts and graphs and big scientific reports to tell the story. all you have to do is go out there and look. stephanie: and so we did, paddling through shallow waters with an astonishing vacancy of life. this northern arm of the lake is already forever changed by human decisions. the red tint is a result of extremelhigh salinity. it was choked off from the rest of the lake years ago to build a railroad causeway. brian: the great salt lake is

drying up. climate change is responsible. you know, developers are responsible. and it just goes over top of people's heads. so what we're doing is using this imagery as a way to kind of go, wow, look at this. this is really happening. stephanie: footen also sends the data he collects to biologist bonnie baxter. we meet her on the southern end of the great salt lake. it is eerily quiet and smells of brine. i feel like we're in the middle of just a dead zone here. it feels like another planet. bonnie: it's like a dead coral reef. it's like a cemetery. and these are the tombstones. stephanie: it feels like that. bonnie: we see larvae in the water. stephanie: baxter brings researchers from westminster college to gather specimens weekly. bonnie: these mounds should be covered with mats of microorganisms that do photosynthesis and bring the sun's energy into the lake system.

but you can see that they're dry and they're not green and they're out of the water. even the ones in the water are not healthy because they're too salty. the ones out of the water are too dry. stephanie: the mounds are called microbialites. bonnie: this is the foundation of the great salt lake ecosystem. and we're seeing it crash and die right before our eyes. stephanie: the lake is at its lowest level in history. as a result, it's becoming too salty even for species adapted to high salinity. bonnie: we're not seeing any fly pupae today, that's terrifying. stephanie: brine flies feed the millions of birds that flock here, as do brine shrimp, which are also harvested. it is just one part of the $1.3 billion economic output of the great salt lake. to understand why the lake is drying up, you have to zoom out to the surrounding areas of the

lake's namesake -- salt lake city. erin: so the state of utah as a whole is the fastest growing state in the nation. stephanie: erin mendenhall is the mayor, a democrat. erin: salt lake city as the capital is seeing more growth in terms of units each year than almost anywhere else in the state. stephanie: there are more city residents than ever, but they're actually using less water. erin: we are absolutely committed to saving this lake with whatever we can. last year that was 2.6 billion gallons of water. that salt lake was conserved. this year, it's already up to 2.9 billion gallons. stephanie: the city's achieved that not by mandating water restrictions, but by raising water rates about 15% a year, and implementing a tiered rate structure. erin: the more you consume, those water rates go up even faster. and these water rates reflect the urgency that we feel as salt lakers. stephanie: but beyond the capital, developments are springing up along the wasatch front. single-family homes with lawns

full of kentucky bluegrass that demands daily watering. jennifer: it is a native species. stephanie: in salt lake city, jennifer and john lair are part of a grassroots movement to swap bluegrass lawns for native plants that need less water. jennifer: especially with the kind of exponential growth that the wasatch front has seen and expects to see for the next 25, 30 years, there just isn't going to be enough water. john: it makes us wonder if we need to be thinking about living somewhere else. i mean, it's an idea we toss around, you know, how seriously kind of depends on the day. of course, the question then becomes, where do you go from there? where is not going to be impacted by climate change? stephanie: while conservation efforts by residents of salt lake city will definitely help, it may not be enough. 2/3 of the water in the great salt lake watershed goes to agriculture, including the water from the bear river. it irrigates the farms and ranches whose yields utah

families have relied on since mormon pioneers settled the region in the 1800s, fulfilling, they believed, a biblical prophecy to make the desert blossom. joel: i don't i don't know what normal looks like anymore. it's been a long time since we have had good winters and good moisture. stephanie: joel ferry has a unique perspective -- a fifth generation utah cattle rancher, he's also a former republican state representative and now the director of the state's department of natural resources. joel: water in the state of utah is a prior appropriation. so whoever used it first has the first right to to use it today. and a lot of those rights belong to farmers. stephanie: is it time for that to change? joel: well, no. i mean, we have we have laws and we have structure. so what is time for us to do is to implement more conservation measures. stephanie: bipartisan support for conserving water for the great salt lake led to a dozen laws enacted this year by the republican-dominated state government. the reforms, among many provisions, do away with use or lose water policies.

joel: we passed legislation that me as a farmer, i can say, you know what, i'm going to take my water, i'm going to put it in the river and i'll receive a beneficial use, which totally changes the mindset of that use it or lose it. i might say, you know, wheat is not worth very much. i don't want it. i'm going to get some compensation if i leave it in the river. stephanie: one of the biggest worries is that the great salt lake will go the way others have gone before it -- not just drying up and ceasing to be a source of water, but becoming a source of poison. biologist bonnie baxter says more than 40% of the lake bed is no longer covered by water and could turn to dust. bonnie: we are likely to see an increase in dust storms as we expose more shorelines. we're likely to see more dust. stephanie: that is toxic dust because there is arsenic and heavy metal on this lakebed, right? bonnie: right. breathing these small particles,

you know, has a huge impact on human health, but then you talk about the heavy metals and what that does to our system over time. and that's a little scary. stephanie: other dried out salt lakes provide a cautionary tale. in the early 20th century, water from the sierra nevada mountains was diverted from owens lake to growing los angeles. by the 1920s, the lake was dry. and for decades after, toxic dust plumes sickened area residents. it is only one reason why for hours a day brian footen paddles along the shoreline, documenting the lake's disappearance. brian: i think one of the big stories that's been missed in the talk about the climate and the drought and the agriculture and the development in salt lake is that this is a unique ecosystem on the planet. there's nothing else like it. stephanie: and that in itself, he says, is a reason for saving it.

for the pbs newshour, i am stephanie sy at the great salt lake in utah. ♪ amna: we are in the thick of midterm season and with election night just a few weeks away, candidates are taking to the debate stage. but are these debates in this political climate mobilizing voters or changing minds? to dive into how this is all playing out, 'm joined by two long time political consultants. republican strategist brett o'donell, he has worked on debate preparation for five presidential candidates, including george w. bush, john mccain and mitt romney. and democratic strategist stephanie cutter, she served as advisor and deputy campaign manager for barack obama. welcome to you both, thank you for being with us. a number of high-stakes debates just last night, i want to go through a few and get

urinalysis. in ohio, tim ryan and j.d. vance debated on economy. here is what they said. >> i wish tim ryan had stood up to his already on the vote, because it might have made the inflation crisis better if he hadn't done what he always does, which is that with nancy pelosi and joe biden 100% of the time. >> you keep talking about nancy pelosi. if you want to run against nancy pelosi, move back to san francisco. i put the national gas provisions in their inflation reduction act, i was the one who made sure we had all of the investments in electric reviewable -- electric vehicles in the inflation reduction xp amna: name checking pelosi and biden, is that part of the republican strategy?

brett: absolutely, and there isn't much tim ryan can make out of it, the economy and inflation is running against democrats. they have admitted the inflation reduction act won't reduce inflation anytime soon if at all. barack obama said his policies were on the ballot and in that midterm, republicans won nine senate seats from democrats. while we may not win that many, i think because of the economy and because of the presidents and nancy pelosi's policies being on the ballot, whether or not tim ryan wants to separate themselves, he is the representative and unfortunately he has to bear the brunt of the blame for the bad economy. amna: stephanie? stephanie: democrats going into this midterm that all of the

historical winds were against them. add to that the economy. what i do think that democrats have been trying to do, and in some cases very successfully, is make this a choice between two different directions. and with the insertion of the dobbs supreme court decision, the ongoing insertion of donald trump putting himself into the race, e raid on mar-a-lago. all of those things have taken away the idea that this was a referendum on democrats. it has been much more of a choice. amna: you mentioned the dobbs decision i want to ask about abortion rights because it has become increasingly important issue for voters. a more central message for voters last night in the gubernatorial debate in georgia. kemp was asked about a recording when he was asked if he would go

further than a six-week man he had previously signed and here is what he said and what abrams had to say on the issue. >> can you tell us right now whether you would push for these measures or any other additional restrictions on abortion now that the 2019 law is in effect? >> no i would not. >> he has weakened our privacy rights and women's rights, he has denied access to reproductive care. the most dangerous thing facing georgia is four more years of brian kemp. amna: it's fair to say republicans have been rolling back abortion rights and women on both sides of the aisle are concerned. should republicans be messaging about this more proactively? brett: not only should brian kemp be answering his question but stacey abrams should be answering what abortio restrictions does she believe and? -- believe in? most of the country doesn't leave in late term abortions yet that is the democrat position so i think republicans do well t

stay on offense but also make sure they address this within the boundaries of being compassionate, understanding that these are tough situations and that they will handle them compassionately. amna: stephanie? stephanie: i would say that republicans will have a hard time going on offense on this decision. i think women across the country -- families across the country know that this is not about late-term abortion. this is about whether women can make their own decisions with their doctors about what is right for them and their families. if kemp attacked stacey abrams on what her restrictions are, the civil answer is women should make that decision. having a false choice over late-term abortion -- we all know that very, very few, far less than 1% of abortions happen after the 20 week mark, and that

is usuly because the baby will not survive or the mother's health is at risk. who better to make that decision about what to do in those circumstances than a woman and her doctor? amna: i need to askbout another issue that came up last night and the utah debate, the senate debate between mike lee and evan mcmullen. there is a backdrop to this, obviously senator lee had encourage president trump to challenge the 2020 election results after later reversing course, and all of this is unfolding against a striking new poll that came out recently with registered voters from the new york times and siena college asking people is american democracy under threat? 71% say yes. 21% say no. those numbers are virtually the same for republicans and democrats. stephanie, is that a message democrats should be leaning into more? stephanie: i think you do hear

that on the campaign trail across the country. i think you hear it more in races like likely'-- like mike l ee's, where he participate in what ultimately became the january 6 insurrection. he did not participate in the insurrection, but let's be clear , alleging fraud where it does not exist, encouraging a president to not concede, to continue to say that he won, all of that contributes to a lack of trust in our democratic institutions, a lack of trust in our democratic system. and lots of opportunity to overthrow it. amna: brett? brett: first of all, a number in the new york times poll shows there is an equal number of democrats and republicans who

view democracy under threat. it is not just because of what happened in 2020, there are lots of other reasons why people are worried about their democracy. they see the democrats acting unilaterally, abuses of executive power. i agree there are democracy threats all around us. one of them are hypocritical democrats who want to say democracy is under threat but at the same time won't participate in what is the cornerstone of any good democracy, that is debate. by the way, the threat to democracy is not the foremost issue on the minds of voters. right now, a lot of folks out there are wondering how they put gas in their car or groceries on their table. they are worried about safety in their neighborhoods, worried about open borders. those are the things at the forefront of most voters this cycle. amna: i think both of you for

setting the example, we had two smart people show up and debate and disagree on the issues but still be civil about it. thanks to you both. stephanie: thank you. brett: thank you. ♪ amna: for many voters this year, the focus has been on contests for governor, senator or local representatives, but there is a lot more at stakin the midterms. laura barron-lop explains. laura: voters in 36 states will decide on more than 120 statewide ballot measures this election -- the future of abortion access, health care and even voting itself is on the ballot. reid wilson is the founder and editor of pluribus news, a digital news outlet that launched this month to cover public policy in the states. thank you for joining us. when abortion was on the ballot in kansas, voters rejected a

constitutional amendment that would have allowed fo a ban on the procedure. there are five more states that have a ballot measure on abortion in november, including california, kentucky, michigan, montana, and vermont. what stands out about those measures? reid: i am watching two of those five states, they are likely to pass in california and vermont, michigan is a swing state and i think it will be instructive about what is coming down the line next year, the year after that, five years down the road. if putting in abortion measure on the ballot in michigan drives turnout for democrats, i think you will see that come on the ballot in basically every state where the initiative process is part of the political process. in kentucky, like kansas, very conservative state, if an abortion ban were to fail, it would be a serious red flag for republicans and those who oppose abortion rights as they go forward. this is really going to be a fight that takes place in the state legislatures, but i think

we will see it on more and more ballots because both sides think they have an upper hand. laura: that's right, the president today saying this could very well reach congress by next year. also in south dakota, there is medicaid expansion on the ballot. voters have previously approved medicaid expansion in some 6/8 -- six other states, but south dakotans will decide about access. reid: this is one of the left fights over the legacy of the affordable care act that president obama signed. all of the democrat states, purple states and even some red states have expanded medicaid to cover those who make up to 130% of the federal poverty line. this is one of the less options proponents of medicaid expansion have to expand through initiative. the vast majority have either already acted on this or are so

conservative they probably won't. laura: if that measure passes, it will also cover a number of native americans in the state that don't have health care access right now. i want to talk about range of voting, it became popular after the alaska special election this year, and the big swing state considering that is nevada, considering several countries are -- several counties across the country as well. if adopted, what will it look like? reid: every state has a different version. in nevada, a top number of candidates who advance, it is not exactly everybody who shows up. the top candidates who get votes in a primary, i think it is the top four, advance to the general election, who already decided by a range choice system. you vote for hugh like the most, and if they co in -- for the candidate you like the most. they continued with the racking until some but he gets 50% plus

one. the thinking is it is a way for people to express opinions beyond just two major parties. interestingly, there is a lot of opposition in nevada from minority groups who think it will hinder their ability to elect the candidate of their choice in minority heavy districts. supporters of range choice voting pushed back on that, they say that's not the case, but we will see. experiment have taken place in maine and alaska, which are pretty homogenous states. laura: i am originally from california and the top two vote getters that proceed on can become chaotic. also marijuana, this year five states have it on the ballot, arkansas, maryland, missouri, north dakota and south dakota. president biden has talked about decriminalizing the drug. that is not the same as legalizing it, which allows industries to build it up. where do voters in the states fall? reid: this is a fascinating test

because four of those states are very conservative. what we see is a phenomenon of red states voting on marijuana legalization becau supporters of marijuana have been so successful in all other states where access to the ballot is available. where the ballot initiative is part of the political process. there are fewer and fewer states now where the public has the option to legalize marijuana. the next round of fights will take place in a state legislatures, and it is not unheard of these days for a state legislator to approve legal marijuana. it happened in vermont, new york, new jersey. it could go to red states next it is not the third rail that it once was a few years ago. laura: across the 130 ballot measures, what is your big take away and how could they impact voter turnout in november? reid: in a number of cases, including the michigan abortion case, these ballot measures may drive turnout to the polls. who is likely to show up to vote in november? what we saw after the supreme

court stuck -- striking down roe v. wade is a number of younger voters, especially younger women, signing up to vote, jumped through the roof. a lot of the states if we see younger women turned out to vote, that is assigned they are activated by some of these initiatives. laura: thank you so much for your time. reid: thank you for having me. ♪ amna: several recent antisemitic comments from public figures, from former president donald trump to recording artist ye, formally know as kanye west, have sparked concern once again about the rise of antisemitic rhetoric, and the real world consequences. john yang has a conversation with the latest. john: amna, over the weekend, former president trump posted some disturbing comments to his social media app, truth social, that include this --

"no president has done more for israel that i have. u.s. jews have to get their act together and appreciate what they have in israel before it is too late." white house press secretary karine jean-pierre denounced the post as anti semitic. it played on the old trope that american jews have a duel loyalty to israel. many also saw that last phrase before it is too late -- as threat. the post came just days after he musical artist ye was suspended from twitter and instagram after saying jewish people are trying to black ball him and tweeting that he would go death con 3 on jewish people. dov waxman is director of the y&s nazarian center for israel studies and a professor of political science at university of california, los angeles. his most recent book is "the israeli-palestinian conflict: what everyone needs to know." thank you for joining us. are you concerned that comments like these from people like

these, a former president, a megastar recording star, can spread anti-semitic sentiment more widely? dov: absolutely. i think the real danger is that both president trump's remarks and kanye west's have the danger of normalizing anti-semitism, legitimizing it. these are people who have a huge number of followers, particularly on social media. and when they're coming out and saying this, it kind of gives license to many other people to also express anti semitic statements. and it really signals a wider i think mainstreaming of anti-semitism in our political discourse today, and that's really a worrying development. john: you know,n the past when former president trump has been accused of using anti-semitic rhetoric, he's defended himself by pointing to his daughter's family who's jewish, and for his support for israel. what's your response to that? dov: i think both of those

things are really irrelevant to the question of whether he is or isn't an anti-semite. as a side point, i didn't think he is actually anti-semitic. but he certainly traffics in anti-semitic stereotypes, he repeats anti-semitic ideas, he made himself not personally hate jews. but i think we should also bear in mind that supporting israel or having jewish family members, doesn't mean that one can't be anti-semitic. there are anti-semites who have supported and who still support israel and absent minded people who may have jews in the family. so neither of those things, i think, disprove the claim that trump is himself an anti semite, but i think the more important issue is not what he feels or the feelings he has towards jews, but rather, the way in which he repeats anti semitic stereotypes and encourages anti semitism in among his followers and signaling to many of his supporters that those kinds of ideas are acceptable. john: so much of this current discussion is about former president trump and conservative

voices, but of course, democratic representative ilhan omar has been criticized in the past for her comments, saying that congressional support for israel is based on money, not principle. is this a problem or do you see a problem on the democratic side as well? dov: i think anti-semitism is a ncern on all sides of the political spectrum. anti-semitic ideas, stereotypes, ways of thinking can come up across the political spectrum or left, right or center. but i think we have to be clear that the real the great danger of anti semitism in the united states today and the most deadly forms of anti semitism are coming quite clearly from the right. so while statements about the power of the pro-israel lobby or allusions to its control over congress can certainly draw upon old anti-semitic ideas, i don't think we should equate that with the kind of mainstreaming of anti-semitic conspiracy theories that is happening today within the republican party in the form of the kind of replacement theory or the demonization of

george soros, which happens on an almost daily basis. john: there are times when when criticms and debate over israeli policies, particularly israeli treatment of the palestinian people, can trigger accusations or denunciations of anti-semitism. what's the line there? where's the line? dov: well, that's the million dollar question. and everybody i think draws the line in a different place. i mean, people recognize that not all criticism of israel is anti-semitic. i think that principle is widely recognized. but where exactly criticism of israel crosses the line into anti-semitism is much debated. in mview, criticism of islam -- of israel becomes anti-semitic when it draws upon anti-semitic stereotypes -- anti-semitic ideas or tropes or representations of jews. in other words, when israel is kind of depicted in the same ways that jews once depicted in anti-semitic literature and discourse. or when israel is accused of kind of secretly engaging in

conspiracies, where israel is blamed for all sorts of world events, be at the 9/11 terrorist attack or the invasion of iraq or, or even the covid 19 pandemic, when you have that kind of conspiracy theory about zionism and about israel that is also classically anti semitic. john: i want to ask you about a tweet that my colleague morgan till spotted this morning. it's from elon musk had since been taken down. it shows donald trump, elon musk and kanye west as the three musketeers. kanye west with parler, trump with true social and of course elon musk is says he's intent on buying twitter. the caption says "in retrospect it was inevitable." does this convergence on social media give you concern? dov: yeah, i think really what we're seeing is the way as anti semitism really being trafficked on social media. it's not altogether clear that

anti semitism is growing in terms of attitudes among the american public. what is happening, though, is that anti semitism is being expressed continually on constant basis on social media. and it's very often being amplified through the algorithms that social media uses. and so i think the real danger is in the ways in which social media now is spreading anti semitic ideas. john: are those ideas becoming more socially acceptable to say out loud, to express? dov: yeah, i think that's the change. it's not necessarily that more people are subscribing to anti semitic ideas, but that the kind of taboo that may have existed to some extent in the past against expressing anti semitic ideas, that taboo is really ending. i think, you know, kanyeest's comments and trump's comments, and many other celebrities comments about jews have that effect of eroding this taboo against the expression of anti semitism and making anti semitism increasingly acceptable in mainstream public discourse. and that is a very alarming

development because accepting anti semitism in speech and language can also ultimaly lead to anti semitic acts and anti semitic violence. john: thank you very much. dov: thank you. ♪ amna: there have been more than two million apprehensions at the u.s./mexico border in the last year, a record hh. and since 2018, photographer pablo allison has documented the human stories behind these statistics. laura barrón-lópez is back with this conversation as part of our arts and culture series, canvas. laura: from the crowded tops of freight trains in mexico to quiet moments of rest. mexican-british photojournalist pablo alison has documented the journeys of migrants from central america to the u.s. southe border for the last five years. his latest project, the detainee

handbook, explores what it's like for migrants detained by u.s. immigration and customs enforcement from inside the detention center where he found himself in 2019. how did you start photographing migrants making their way to the u.s.? pablo: i was driven to wanting to investigate the landscape of mexico, traveling on trains through the southern border of mexico up to new york. that was the intended journey. i could not avoid but to photograph the situation that i was surrounded by. that one journey ended up in about four years of on and off documentation of migrant caravans, individual journeys following small groups of people , migrating to the united states. laura: what are some of the forces that drive people to flee and ma this difficult journey? pablo: the first journey i did, i was in el salvador and i heard about the story of a kid that

was being recruited by the gang. and he didn't want to be a part of the ms13 gang. therefore he escaped his neighborhood. that was a vivid and direct account of what i have been reading in news and books, specifically while i was working with amnesty international, which is where i got to know more about the situation in central america. my task was to find stories of human rights abuses. and atrocities like the one of this kid. i've heard hundreds of stories of people that i've met along the route. the pattern is violence over poverty, although they go hand in hand. laura: what are some of the themes about humanity that you explore in your work? pablo: i've found elements of love through meeting people that have a lot of love for themselves and the lives they live. migrants is a concept that's

used, like many other concepts, as categories to dehumanize. and so for me, i try not to use the migrant as a concept, rather use names. carlos, pepe, javier, maria, carmen, who are people that i've met along the way and it's people that i've befriended. those are key elements in the work that i do. laura: there's this photograph that struck me that i think gets at what you're talking about with love. it was in 2019 that you took it, and it shows this young honduran couple and it really evokes hope. do you remember what that couple's aspirations were, what they and others with them were hoping to achieve as they travel to another country? pablo: it was early in the morning and the sun was rising. no one was awake. i took a picture and she spotted me, and she looked at me. when they woke up, i remember telling them that they were a beautiful couple and that they

were very lucky to be together, traveling and and protecting one another. i don't remember asking them, but i just assumed that their aspiration was to seek for a better life like everyone is trying to do, from places where conflict and poverty exist. laura: as you started this journey of photographing people who make this trek for a better life, you also said that you never considered visiting a u.s. immigration detention center as part of your photography work. but in 2019, you yourself were detained for several weeks after your u.s. visa expired. what was that experience like? pablo: when i was going through immigration on the border between mexico and the united states, i went through it and no questions asked, no stamp on my passport, because i had gone in with my previous entry and not

with a new one which i thought had been the case. it was an administrative error. i didn'know very well, they didn't explain and then i ended up being there for almost a month. it is a detention center, yes, but it smells, looks and tastes like a prison. luckily, sadly, but luckily i was able to document this. facing the terrible situation of being inside a detention center in the united states allowed me at least to be able to focus on that side of the story, which i never in my life would have thought i would i would have ended up doing. laura: and, that side of the story is the new book, "the detainee handbook." it contains sketches, diary entries and much more from your time there. so what was it like to document that experience without your camera? pablo: it allowed me to stay calm for the time that i was there, which was almost a month. i focused on portraits of detainees.

and i also asked many people in there to write their stories and ideas related to incarceration, migration, family,reedom, etc. so what you have in the ok is a participation or collaboration between people and my sketches people. laura: pablo, thank you for your time. pablo: thanks very much. amna: a powerful conversation and powerful pictures. that's the newshour for tonight. i'm amna nawaz. join us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at "the pbs newshour," thank you and see you soon. ♪ >> major funding for "the pbs newshour" has been provided by -- >> actually, you don't need vision to do most things in life. yes, i am legally blind and yes i am responsible for the user interface. data visualization -- if i can

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. hello, everyone and welcome to "amanpour and company." here is what is coming up. >> we will reverse almost all the tax measures announced in the growth plan three weeks ago. >> yet, more stunning u-turns in the u.k. from the new chancellor as the prime minister tries to fix a problem she created. liz truss tries to survive but at what cost to the people? i ask rory stewart and economists. then -- ♪ ♪ >> china's 20th party congress begins in beijing and it's likely to end with an unprecedented third term for president xi jinping. we get inside from china analyst