judy: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, counting the votes. election officials continue to tally ballots as americans await the result of tight races, including one that could decide control of congress. then, a tense moment. russia withdraw troops from a key region as ukrainian forces advance cautiously, fearing a trap. and, after the storm. recently released prisoners find themselves cut off from disaster aid in the aftermath of hurricanes. >> when you are in the midst of it and you have ones truly affected, i was not prepared for this turn in life. judy: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour.

♪ >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- ♪ the kendeda fund, committed to advancing restorative justice and meaningful work through investments in transformative leaders and ideas. more at kendedafund.org. carnegie corporation of new york, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security at carnegie.org. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. ♪

this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting, and by contributions from your -- to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. judy: it is not over yet. more results from the midterm elections have trickled in today, but the ultimate majorities in the u.s. senate and house of representatives remain in question. geoff bennett begins our coverage. geoff: another day of waiting as margins remain narrow in three senate races that will determine which party has control of the senate for the next two years. in georgia, where neither candidate surpassed the required 50% vote threshold, the leadup to december's runoff election is already underway.

the incumbent, raphael warnock, appealing to his democratic base at a campaign event today. sen. warnock: over the next four weeks, i hope you will give me the opportunity to earn your vote. every day i have served in the senate, i have been thinking about the people of georgia. that's what i will do for the next six years. geoff: lindsey graham speaking on herschel walker's behalf on fox last night. sen. graham: warnock does not have a snowball's chance in hell if we get behind herschel walker. he needs money. you have to outspend 3-1. geoff: democrats need two seats to maintain their majority, a reality possibly within reach as state work to tally every vote. in nevada, as of tonight, adam laxalt is ahead of his democratic opponent, incumbent catherine cortez masto. masto, whose seat republicans had hoped to flip, was seen as vulnerable heading into the race.

masto played a role in the unsuccessful effort to overturn president biden's victory in the 2020 election. meantime, in arizona, the democratic incumbent has the lead against his trump backed opponent, blake masters. it is a state where many people opted to vote early, prolonging the counting process for days. vote counting also continued in house races across the country. while the most likely scenario is a single majority for republicans, democrats are outperforming expectations in key races. republican lauren boebert in colorado, a trump favorite, in a surprisingly close race with her democratic opponent, adding -- adam frech. that race too close to call. fewer voters aligning themselves with the former president at the polls. kevin mccarthy announced his intention of running for house speaker. the white house says president biden called mccarthy last night. early signs of the new across the aisle relationship building to come.

for the pbs newshour, i'm geoff bennett. judy: for more analysis on the state of results in key races, let's go to amna and lisa. >> it's good to check in on the balance of power in the house of representatives. lisa is going to walk us through it. lisa: 209 seats have been called for the republican party. 189 for democrats. everybody knows you need 218 seats, so republicans are nine votes short. slowly, these races are being called one by one, but we are still waiting to see exactly how this goes. i will say as you know, i have been tracking this not just by numbers of seats called, but in him terms of who has gained and who has lost. because of races called in the last day, in my tracker, i have the republicans up nine seats net. they need five to take the majority, but there are so many races left. there are 28 seats we are watching. right now, republicans gaining. how much will they gain in the

end? amna: when you look at this, this is not exactly the red wave many people predicted. democrats made some gains in places. republicans in others. how did we get here? lisa: this is fascinating. first of all, when i look through what happened in the last election, republicans gained four in florida. florida did pick up a state because of the census changes, but just one. republicans, how did they gain four? ron desantis. the republican legislature and the governor changed the maps in a way that have benefited republicans to the tune of four seats. where else did they gain? new york. new york, they gained four seats because of the maps. democrats wanted a more partisan map. that was thrown out. a special master put together a less partisan map and that has favorite republicans. moving back may be towards a less partisan view of new york. democrats gained, too. the great lakes states. ohio, michigan, illinois.

but that was not about the map, that was about the candidates. in many of these races, we saw extreme republicans, supporters of president trump, election deniers, and we saw them rejected by candidates, sometimes in republican-leaning districts. amna: we are relying on the ap to make these calls. they do that based on math and facts. still races to be called. what are you tracking? lisa: math and facts, let's look at both. fact, republican lauren boebert in colorado is now leading again. last night, she was not, but this is a race that is just about 700 votes difference between her and her opponent. we have 98% or so of the expected vote with more coming in. this one has really been a barn burner and it could flip back again but right now, representative lauren boebert feeling a lot better than she did last night. let's look at another one of these states were a lot of the vote is still out, california. katie porter, a very well-known, high-profile representative. she is leading in her race right now, but just 58% of the vote.

these california races will take a long time. the largest group of races outstanding are in california, so that is going to be a problem for figuring out how big the majority is for kevin mccarthy. right, katie porter ahead. let's look at one more. nevada. las vegas. suzy lee was up by less than a point last night when we checked in. she is gaining more. now she is up by two points. a whopping two points. republicans, i talked to some involved in that state who know this race well. they think they have a chance in this race. they said in las vegas terms, they've got to get an inside straight, but there are still ballots remaining to be counted, drop off ballots. but right now susie lee probably feeling prty good and democrats, too. amna: those are house races. you are tracking other races in arizona. let's check out what's happening in the governor's race. lisa: this is such a marquee race. katie hobbs is still leang over kari lake. 15,000 votes, a little bit less than that.

14,000 votes. 70% of the expected vote in. we expect an update from maricopa county where the majority of votes are in this state in the next few hours. this could be slow, but right now, katie hobbs is holding on to her lead for that important gubernatorial seat. amna: kari lake is among those who falsely denies the results of the election. those candidates, tell me about where they stand. lisa: most of these gubernatorial candidates who have denied the 2020 election have lost their race, so let's look at something else. now that they have been declared to have been defeated, all of these candidates, who has conceded that loss? most of them have conceded. i looked at this and i had to make calls to figure this out. it is interesting. these candidates who still doubt the 2020 election integrity are verifying the integrity of this year's election, that they have lost. the margins were large enough, the election was fair. except for one, doug mastriano. let's look at that race in pennsylvania. the gubernatorial race.

the margin is enormous, 14 points. he is still denying that race, but we will see if that changes in the days ahead. important because he has followers who listen to him, but josh shapiro will be governor of state of pennsylvania. amna: so important. lisa desjardins staying on top of it all. thank you. ♪ stephanie: i'm stephanie: i'm stephanie sy with newshour west. we will return to the full program after the latest headlines. u.s. inflation eased a bit in october but remained high. the labor department reports consumer prices were up 0.4% for the month and 7.7% from a year ago. the so-called core rate, not including food and energy prices, rose 6.3%. all of the numbers were better than economists expected. financial markets surged on the news. a federal judge in texas struck

down the biden administration's federal loan forgiveness program this evening. a trump appointee declared it unlawful. the biden administration says it would block anything ending the plan. a rare november hurricane has weakened tonight after smashing into florida's atlantic coast. nicole's storm surge drove big waves basharnd carried away oceanfront homes north of vero beach. from there, it moved inland with flooding rain. the storm's remnants will push through georgia and the carolinas and reach new england. president biden will meet china's president xi jinping on monday, their first impression encounter since mr. biden took office. white house national security advisor jake sullivan said today the meeting will take place at the group of 20 summit in bali, indonesia, but he played down expectations. >> i don't think you should look at this meeting as one in which there's going to be specific deliverables announced, especially at this moment, as the president comes out of these

midterms, as xi jinping comes out of the 20th party congress. that bigger picture conversation is probably the most important element of this meeting. judy: the meeting comes as chinese-american tensionare running high over trade, taiwan, and the war in ukraine. government forces kept advancing today. russia said its troops had begun a retreat. ukrainian officials said they withdrawal. they also warned russian mines are everywhere increase on, transforming it into a city of death. we will take a closer look later in the program. a new wave of antigovernment protests have flared across iran. today's demonstrations in tehran and other cities occurred despite threats from officials. some of the protests overnight turned violent. security forces fired tear gas to break up crowds. protests began in september after a woman died in police custody.

pakistan's former prime minister urged his followers today to resume marching on the capital to demand early elections. the elections had been suspended after he was wounded by a would-be assassin a week ago. supporters said they are eager to get back on the road. >> today is a very important day for all of us. why? the long march is going to start again. it is a peaceful protest. what is important is the government, the incumbent government sitting at the moment, should understand that bane of us are scared.s sheay this r ctiouisntry, llthe district of columbia filed a civil suit against the washington commanders football team over sexual harassment and, dan snyder, the nfl, and its commissioner of lying about the misconduct. snyder said he's looking into selling the franchise. a judge in connecticut today

ordered infowars host alex jones to pay $473 million in punitive damages for claiminghat the sandy hook school shooting was a hoax. that is on top of nearly $1 billion that a jury awarded to the victims families and two and fbi agent. 20 children and six educators died in the 2012 massacre. the state of california is suing 18 chemical manufacturers, including dupont and 3m, alleging they knowingly marketed products containing so-called cancer-causing forever products. the chemical compounds are found in firefighting foams, nonstick frying pans, and many other products. on a lighter note, the national toy hall of fame has three new honorees. today's announcement named light brite, which first appeared in

1966, masters of the universe, action figures that debuted in 1981, and the spinning top. it has been around for several thousand years. still to come on the newshour, a republican congressional candidate who ousted democratic leader discusses his surprise victory. how the issue of abortion appears to have swayed results in this year's election. ukrainian forces cautiously advance after russia's withdrawal from occurs on -- from curzon. plus, much more. >> this is the pbs newshour, from weta studios in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. judy: while the gop underperformed expectations nationwide in the election, stronger than expected performances in new york could ultimately make the difference when it comes to control of congress. republican representative elect michael lawler won in a former deep blue district just outside

new york city, knocking out a democratic leader in the process. i spoke with him moments ago. congressman-elect michael lawler, welcome to the newshour. congratulations on your victory. we lifted up, it has been since the early 1960's that new york state has been sending mostly democrats to congress, but just this week in this election, you flipped four seats from democrats to republicans. what is going on in new york? michael: we have seen a surge in the number of republicans. we flipped four seats on tuesday night. we are going to end up sending 11 out of the 26 members of congress in new york, which is certainly a big increase from where we have been. back in 2008 after that election, we were down to two members. over the last decade plus, we have been steadily chipping away at it, here on tuesday night we have made big gains.

a big part of that was the redistricting the asko earlier this year in new york. sean patrick maloney, my opponent, sent a memo to state democrats demanding that they gerrymander new york's congressional maps and knock republicans down to three members. ultimately, they did that, but the courts intervened, threw out the maps, declaring them unconstitutional, and appointed a special master. the maps that we got were fair, and that is why so many of these districts were competitive on tuesday night. judy: no question, redistricting had a lot to do with it. was that the main thing? michael: redistricting coupled with the fact that democrats control everything in washington , albany, and new york city for the first time in our nations history, and they created a mess. surging crime, skyrocketing energy prices, and a porous southern border. endeed i wevh epwhn at

was going on, and they wanted to restore balance and common sense, and that is why we picked up two congressional seats, a number of state assembly seats. and even flipped some state senate seats. voters wanted to send a message in new york that one-party rule just does not work and that we needed to ensure some balance, and i think that, in addition, sean patrick maloney only represented 25% of this new 17th district. he did not have the built-in advantages of incumbency. i represent 20% of the district in the state assembly. we were running pretty much equal, and i was coming out of rockland county, which was about 2% of the district, and i won by 10 points, which really made the difference here. judy: you mentioned inflation. you also mentioned surging crime. what is the crime siation in

your district? we know that sean patrick maloney accused you of blowing it out of proportion. how unsafe are the people of your district? michael: number one, in new york state and new york city specifically, which is neighboring to my district, we have seen crime crease. since cashless bail took effect, index crimes are up 36% in new york city. statewide, 40% of those released on nonmonetary bail for felony offenses have been rearrested. crime is relatively stagnant in my particular district, but 50% of households in my district have a cop, a firefighter, a first responder, or veteran living in them, and many of those folks work in new york city as part of the nypd or fdny. crime was a major issue of concern. a lot of our residents commute into the city to work. so it is not just a function of the crime rate in my district specific.

crime in new york city impacts everybody, and especially in the immediate suburbs. judy: tell us in a nutshell -- that is clearly a priority -- what are your other priorities? blicans are picking up seats in the house. it appears they are going to have the majority but not by as big a margin as had been expected. how much do you think you can get done with a small majority in the house? michael: we are going to obviously have to work together to pass an agenda. kevin carthy laid out a commitment to america. many of those issues were issues i campaigned on. we need to tackle the cost of living and the rising inflation. we need to increase domestic production of energy if we want to help bring down the cost of gas and home heating as well as groceries. we need to secure our southern border and stop not only the massive inflow of illegal immigration, but fentanyl pouring into our committees.

at the end of the day, to me, we have an allegation to make sure every american, regardless of their political party, can afford to live here, and that is my primary focus. that is why i ran in the first place, and that is my objective. one of the things i want to tackle is liing the cap on salt. for areas like mine, where we pay the highest property taxes in america, our residents have been negatively impacted by the cap on state and local tax inductions on your federal income tax. that is a priority. judy: how much do you expect you are going to be able to work with democrats, work across the aisle? >> in albany, i have among the most bipartisan voting records in the state legislature. i voted with the democratic speaker 81% of the time and my republican leader 91% of the time.

i worked across the aisle extensively. i have every intention of doing that here. it does not work when we go from one extreme to the other and back and forth we go. we need to get things done on behalf of the american people. and the residence of each of our districts who sent us here. that is my objective. i think the president and democrats will also have to make some compromise, and i think there's got to be a willingness on all sides to tackle these issues. the american people are suffering right now, especially when it comes to the cost of living, with record inflation and skyrocketing energy costs, and we have to get that under control. that is my priority. that is my focus. i have every intention of working across the aisle to t things done. judy: you said in another interview today that you think the republican party needs to move forward beyond donald trump, but as you know, many

republicans still support him. do you think that is realistic? and who are you supporting in 2024? michael: the former president will make his decision with respect to whether or not he runs in 2024, and ultimately, the voters will decide. i think there's a lot of great rising stars within the party, and i think as we look forward to the future, it's important to have new voices in that process, but we will see how that process plays out in the coming weeks and months ahead. judy: representative elect michael lawler from new york, thank you very much, and again, congratulations. michael: thank you. ♪ judy: as ballots continue to be counted in several key races nationwide, amna is back with a look at one matchup that could decide control of the u.s. senate. amna: about 80% of the vote has been tallied in nevada.

in that senate race, republican adam laxalt currently has an extremely narrow lead, but election officials warn it may take several more days until all the mail ballots have been tallied. 20 me to discuss that race and more is john rawson of the nevada independent. he has been following the counter. welcome back to the newshour. we know every state is different, but why is nevada counting more slowly than other states? >> i think it's the volume of the mail ballots. we just went to everyone gets a mail ballot state in 2020 because of the pandemic, and then the democratic-controlled legislature cemented that into law last year, and so there are tens of thousands of mail ballots to count, and the law ys that any mail ballot that is postmarked on tuesday or before can be counted and it can be counted for four days after the election, so up until 5:00 on saturday, so that is what is taking so long. it's a painstaking process where

they have to verify the signatures before they can count the ballot, and if there is a problem with the signature, they have to take it out and allow a voter to do what's called curing the llot. it's a complicated and somewhat elongated process. amna: what does that mean r a timeline ahead? when do you expect results? >> you are asking me the same question i ask myself every day and everyone is asking right now. we are getting results on a daily basis, but they are piecemeal, so there may be 15 or 20,000 released tonight from clark county, which is where las vegas is. maybe a similar number from washoe county, where reno is. we are not going to have a real handle on the senate race probably until at least saturday, as i mentioned when the deadline is at 5:00, but people can still cure their ballots up until a couple days later, so if this is really close, and it could be, we will

not know until next week what the results are. amna: let me get your take on some of these statewide races that have yet to be called. they are pretty tight. in the senate, you've got republican adam laxalt challenging incumbent catherine cortez masto. how do you see this shaping up? >> it looked as though catherine cortez masto is going to eat into adam laxalt 16,000 vote lead statewide. the real question is can she eat into it enough through the mail ballots which have been overwhelmingly in her favor so far to get past that 16,000 vote mark, knowing that laxalt is going to gain a few thousand more votes because rural nevada, which is very red, is going to help him a bit. amna: what about the governors race? what is happening there? >> if catherine cortez masto does not have much margin for error to catch up to adam laxalt

, steve sisolak, the governor, has even less to catch up to the sheriff of clark county. joe lombardo. he is twice as far behind and he has been running behind catherine cortez masto in the vote totals. i think it is a real longshot for steve sisolak to catch up. amna: this secretary of state race a lot of folks have been paying close attention. the democrat running against an election denier. we have seen a lot of those folks losing their races in other states. do you see that happening in nevada? amna: i do. jim marchant is a few thound votes ahead right now, but there's so many ballots left to count that it's almost a certainty that cisco angular is going to catch up to a dangerous guy who believes in all kinds of kooky stuff, qanon, mike lindell kinds of stuff, and i think aguilar is going to win that race. amna:.

few people know nevada politics better than you, so in the minute or so we have left, what has been your single biggest takeaway when you look at what has been happening so far in this cycle? >> listen, the takeaway here in nevada i think is similar to the rest of the country in which the republicans had very, very high hopes of a deep red wave. remember, there were three democratic house seats in play here in nevada, and the democrats are going to hold all three of those seats. they were pretty certain they were going to take governor's seat and the u.s. senate race, and it looks like they may only get a split. it's possible they could get both but they are not going to win all the constitutional offices, and they are not going to take control of the legislature, so i think that the deep red wave that was forecast by a lot of republicans here in nevada has not come to pass. amna: meanwhile, the votes continue to be counted and we will continue to follow those races, key races in nevada. thank you. always good to have you with us.

>> thanks. judy: thank you. so this week's election was the first since the supreme court overturned the constitutional right to an abortion six months ago. since then, 12 states have put in place total bans on the procedure. other states have enacted restrictions. that was top of mind for many voters in this election and in some states, access to abortion was literally on the ballot. for more on those results and what they mean, i'm joined by laura. i know you have been following this issue for many months now so let's talk about the states that had this as a ballot measure. it was there for people to vote on directly. you saw people making a clear statement. tell us about those. laura: there were five states where voters had abortion on the ballot. those five states were kentucky, michigan, california, vermont, and montana. across all five of them, voters ultimately supported protecting abortion access rather than

restricting it. in three of those, california, michigan, and vermont, that enshrined abortion rights in the state constitution, the two outliers were kentucky and montana. in kentucky, voters defeated a measure that would have put no protection for abortion rights. in montana, the measure there did not directly say abortion , applied to abortion. it has to do with babies being born alive and it would have made them a legal person, and doctors were not in favor of this because of the fact that they felt as though it would hurt the care for premature babies who will not survive. that measure was ultimately defeated. that race was called today, ballot measure called today. that came to 52.5% voting no. defeating that measure, 47.5% voting yes.

judy: let's talk about the others races with abortion access on the ballot, clear contrast between candidates. what did we learn from those? laura: i was tracking three states here. democratic candidates and a lot of stes really focused on abortion access and made it their rallying cry for voters against republican candidates. the three states i wanted to talk about our michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania. he was reelected and made this a key issue in her race. and then tony evers in wisconsin was reelected and he again was very focused on abortion, particularly with the prospect of a very strong gop state legislature there. josh shapiro in pennsylvania, a new governor-elect in pennsylvania, he very much was focused on reproductive rights. he opposed his republican opponent, who was actually very much in favor of severe restriction on abortion access

there. judy: if you step back and look at the issue across the country, how big a factor was abortion in how these races turned out? laura: it appears to have been a really major factor, and that is what i was hearing when i was on the ground in michigan from female voters there as well as from some pennsylvania voters i was talking to. and we have a data point that really hammers this, which is the ap survey of voters found that 24% of voters cited abortion as their top issue, and of those, 70% voted for the democratic candidate, 27% for the republican candidate, so a big difference there in ultimately people supporting abortion access favoring democrats. i spoke to a veteran democratic pollster today who said that democrats needed a dynamic event if they were going to defo anthltimelhe sre

cot's desin inab y stor a gave them that dynamic event it helped democrats counter inflation, because a lot of voters who cited inflation as their top concern, they ended up breaking for republicans. judy: finally, quickly, we know president biden made abortion rights a central part of his arguments in these elections. what is the white house looking at what it can do in the next few years? laura: i asked white house press secretary karine jean-pierre about this today. i asked her if they were going to still send a bill to congress in january that would codify roe v. wade, and this is what she said. >> we just have to see what the complexion of congress is going to look like, and then we will move forward from there. laura: is there anything else the president thinks he can do if there is only one seat in the senate? >> he's going to do everything

that he can. people have said he was not going to get the infrastructure legislation done. he got it done. people did not think he was going to get the chips in science act done. we got it done. laura: i was pointing out that at best, democrats may have a one seat majority in the senate and ultimately, biden had sent this final message to voters. if they gave him two more democratic senators, he could potentially overcome a filibust and see roe v. wade codified. it doesn't look like democrats are gog to have that at all. they said that they are going to look more at potential executive actions and other options the administration can take. judy: that does not look likely, but clearly, abortion is a bigger issue for voters than was expected. thank you. laura: thank you. ♪ judy: the united states

announced today that it will send another package of arms and military aid to ukraine. this one worth $400 million. we will have a debate with experts on whether the u.s. should be emphasizing diplomacy. but first, nick schifrin reports that kyiv has seized territory across the sou as russia begins its withdrawal from the only regional capital it captured, curzon. >> the kremlin vowed this territory would be russia forever. just five weeks later, ukrainian soldiers proved putin's promise hollow. curzon residents welcomed there liberators. ukrainian troops today flew the blue and yellow over more than 40 villages that russia occupied on the war's first day, and they walked through abandoned russian camps. u.s. officials called the russian retreat orderly. the russian soldiers left behind their patches and ids. russia seized the regional capital in late february and annexed the entire region in

late september, but now u.s. officials say ukrainian soldiers are advancing along three axes towards the city and river. 20,000 to 30,000 professional russian troops already withdrew across the river and have been replaced by conscripts who maintain defensive positions. yesterday on russian tv, a commander told the defense minister they would soon retreat. >> proceed with the withdrawal of troops and take all measures to ensure the safe transfer of personnel, weapons, and equipment across the upper river. nick: ukrainian officials feared the russians booby-trapped the city and do not trust any russian claim. >> we move very cafully without emotions, without unnecessary risk. this is how people secure the liberation of kherson and other

cities. >> the russian military is withdrawing across the upper river and is trying to maximally pull out its forces to the extent it can use them in the following campaign. nick: michael kaufman is a director. earlier this month, he visited kherson with other researchers. >> the real challenge for the russian military was logistics. they have been running low on ammunition, making it untenable to sustain so many troops across thriver. nick: now ukrainians must reckon with what russia left behind, liberated residents are relieved after months of russian occupation. in the city of kherson, pbs newshour spoke to residents who would only talk anonymously. one wrote that they took away the businesses of many of my friends. russian soldiers told them they had three minutes to leave. we spoke to another resident on the phone who described acts of torture. >> a lot of men were detained and thrown into basements. they beat them so severely, they could not walk for several days.

they splashed them with boiling water during interrogations. i want all the people to hear and know the truth. the things they are doing here are horrific. we need to stop it as soon as possible. nick: but how to stop the war? last friday, national security advisor jake sullivan met ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. multiple u.s. officials tell pbs newshour that sullivan asked him to reduce his public skepticism about diplomacy and detail what peace might mean. as sullivan suggested in the kyiv press conference. >> the conversation that we need to have with the international community in support of ukraine is, what are the terms of a just and lastinpeace for ukraine? nick: four days later, zelenskyy dropped his previous refusal to talk with putin but maintained ukraine's demands include re-seizing all territory lost since 2014. >> restoration of territorial

integrity, compensation for all damage, punishment of every war criminal, and guaraees that this will not happen again. nick: in a talk last might, the chairman of the joint chiefs >> there has to be recognition that military victory is probably, in the te sense of the word, is maybe not achievable through military means. nick: he cited world war i when he said commanders who they could not win kept fighting, leading to 20 million killed. >> when there is an opportunity to negotiate, when peace can be achieved, seize it, the moment. nick: they insist they are not telling ukraine what to do. >> the united states is not pressuring ukraine. we are not insisting on things with ukraine.

what we are doing is we are consulting as partners. nick: for more on what the american role should be to find an end to the war, we get two opposing views. charles is a professor at georgetown university and senior fellow at the council on foreign relations. he was a senior director on the obama national security council staff. and evelyn farkas is the executive director of the mccain institute at arizona state diversity. she served as deputy secretary of defense for russia, ukraine, and eurasia, also during the obama administration. welcome, both of you. charlie, let me start with you. we showed what the general said. he said when there is an opportunity to negotiate, seize the moment. do you believe the u.s. should push ukraine to seize the moment and today start negotiations? charles: i think the united states needs to elevate diplomacy, not necessarily say we need to go today to push kyiv

to start talking to the russians, but we need to begin to elevate this issue, and that's because i think we have to make a judgment call here about the nature of u.s. and western interests that are at stake, and biden made a judgment early on that the u.s. would support ukraine but that ukraine would do the fighting. we are not ready to go to war with russia over eastern ukraine, and i think that is the right call. we are now in a situation which the chances of escalation are rising. it is conceivable to me that if the ukrainians continue to make progress on the battlefield, which i think they will, the russians might respond by using a nuclear weapon. if they feel pressed against the wall. if they feel they might lose all of donbas and crimea. as a consequence, it seems to me we ought to put into the mix a conversation about how to end

the war sooner rather than later, because for me, running a risk of war between nato and russia, including the use of nuclear weapons, is too high a risk. >> is there a risk of escalation toward the elevation of diplomacy? evelyn: the time is not ripe. ukraine is winning and our objective is to have ukraine win to defeat russia in ukraine militarily so that russia does not turn to georgia, to moldova. the other thing important to note is that vladimir putin is rational. the people around him are rational. they know that if they use a nuclear device, even if they just detonate a clear device in a demonstration, that they can do it. the world willook very different the next day. president biden himself has said he warned the russians that there will be consequences. united states then will take conventional military action directly against whatever

military unit conducted that mission and the international community will resolve that no government that would use the military weapon that would explode a military device in the context of a war, or in any context, should remain in power. and then the international community will act to pressure the russian government essentially to remove vladimir putin. the stakes are too high. let's remember that time and time again, vladimir putin has threatened to use nuclear power, has talked about redlines, and every time we or the ukrainians crossed one of those lines, whether it is attacking crimea, whether it's sending javelin missiles, the russian government has not escalated. in fact, it has backed down. we have to remain firm. >> might the russians back down, and what is wrong with that point that evelyn farkas just made, which is helping ukraine win and defeating russia? >> i'm all for helping ukraine

continue to make progress on the battlefield. i think our policy so far has been the right one. i do not agree with evelyn that if putin comes away with crimea or with any chunk of donbas, that he is suddenly going to attack nato, so the question really is, is it worth running the risk of a direct war between nato and russia, including a possible use of nuclear weapons, to ensure his utter and total defeat, the liberation of every inch of ukrainian territory? my judgment is it is not worth running that risk, because it could lead to world war iii. >> risk of world war iii? evelyn: the greater risk is if vladimir putin prevails in ukraine, because he didn't will turn to georgia or mortal look, where there are russian forces already -- four moldova, where

there are russian forces already. he already told us that he outlined what he wants, a neo-imperial russia, and he does not want nato at his doorstep. he wants nato destroyed, and that is why i think the risk actually increases if vladimir putin gets his way in ukraine. >> what do you think the main elements of an agreement between ukraine and russia might be? charles: i think there are probably two main components. one is a ukrainian agreement to stick to neutrality, and secondly, i think there needs to be a conversation about territory where a new line might be drawn is very difficult to say. i think it might make sense to start the conversation by going back to the borders of february 24, when we saw the initial russian invasion of more of ukraine. and then that conversation begins about crimea, about the future of the eastern sections of donbas, but at least let's have that dialogue. nick: should the u.s. support

some kind of negotiation in which ukraine agrees to neutrality and does not necessarily re-achieve the territories seized by russia in 2014 in crimea and the donbas? evelyn: that is not what they said they want, so we need to support the ukrainian government in their effort to regain their territory. if president zelenskyy decides that enough is enough, which would only happen if his people decide that they are done fighting, then we will support them in achieving peace. but at this point in time, the ukrainian military is winning. the russian military is weak. the russian government is looking for a pause. it's clear that the russians are back on their heels right now. we have an opportunity. the ukrainians understand that. we should help ukraine. we are not providing them with the maximum assistance we should give them to end this work

quickly. >> thank you very much to you both. charles: thank you. good to be with you. judy: as another hurricane moves through florida, it is clear the atlantic hurricane season is not quite done yet. william hamore on some of the people these storms impact the most. william: nicole hit florida just weeks after hurricane i struck the southwest part of the state and killed more than 100 people. we know storms like these can devastate vulnerable communities , but one group that is often overlooked in natural disasters is the formerly incarcerated, a group that can face unique challenges even in the best of times. we spoke to one formerly incarcerated women whose home was destroyed by ian. she fled to tampa but then found her criminal record made it very hard to find housing even though it has been years since she was released. she is not alone. hundreds of thousands of people come out of florida's prisons

and jails every year and in a state with so many hurricanes, there can be added layers of complexity for them. here is the story of another florida resident dealing with these same issues. it is part of our series, searching for justice. 33-year-old seth campbell has been out of prison for a year. he was born and raised in florida so he knows about hurricanes. his experience wh some of the state's worst storms has been different. >> most of these storms i have been in, i have been in institutions. irma, i was in the county jail. >> you did not have to do any prep for it. the prison took care of it. >> rate. -- right. so i was not ready for what was about to happen. william: when hurricane ian was on track to make landfall not far from his home in sarasota,

he did not know how to prepare. >> i started at another house. the electricity went out there. we were about one hour into the storm. i felt that we could make it so we traveled here. what i saw i thought was the middle of the storm and it was the worst. little did i know, it kept getting worse. so when we got here, all the electricity goes out here. the other thing i was not prepared for -- you could not check on your loved ones because you could not call out. when you are in the midst of it and you have loved ones truly affected, people who no longer have homes, it is no longer about me or what i was prepared for. i was not prepared for this turn in life. william: experts say that after a natural disaster, formerly incarcerated people can find themselves competing with the rest of the population for already scarce housing, jobs, and other resources, so they can often be the ones pushed to the back of the line. david kirk is a sociology professor at oxford university.

his 2020 broke home free -- book home free of debt the outcomes of people released from louisiana prisons right after hurricane katrina. >> we are talking about destabilization of jobs, labor markets, services that the formerly incarcerated often times depend upon. for example, mental health treatment. if you've got a temporary if relatively short-lived situation where services are disrupted. that could be enough to in essence make it so people fall back into old patterns of behavior, drug use, things like that. william: barbara richards directs project 180, a sarasota-based nonprofit that helps people reentering from prison. in addition to linking people to addiction treatment, employment, and help with their finances, project 180 runs a pair of houses for formerly incarcerated men in sarasota.

seth campbell is the house leader for one of them. >> we have men who have graduated from our residential program continuing to live in houses because they could not find a place in the community. so now, with so many people displaced, a number of people have come up here, seeking housing from more devastated areas. they are having a hard time and they do not have a criminal history. william: for seth campbell, plenty of challenges remain. this summer, he opened a small apartment cleaning company with his girlfriend but en brought -- ian brought that business to a halt. >> they want that tree down in the front yard and their fence fixed. so cleaning is on the back burner. william: last month, he started looking into disaster loans from the small business administration. but the sba says it will not give financial aid to people who are "not of good character" and

its disaster loan forms ask about a criminal record. >> i honestly did not want to complete the application. i don't think anybody should feel that way. from my understanding, i served time for my crimes. why are they still to being held against me when i am trying to be a better, productive member of society? william: in a statement, they wrote that just 0.1% of application denials over the last two fiscal years were due to character reasons, and it encouraged anyone impacted by a disaster to apply if they have uncovered losses. formerly incarcerated people don't only have to weigh their interactions with the government after natural disasters. in 2017, when hurricane irma struck along florida's gulf coast, the sheriff of polk county faced criticism for

tweeting, "if you go to a shelter for irma and you have a warrant, we will gladly escort you to the safe and secure shelter of the polk county jail." he also warned that "law enforcement officers would be at every shelter, checking ids." experts say sentiments like that could deter not just those wanted for serious crime but anyone with a criminal record. >> individuals have had pretty negative interactions with the government and that applies to people who end up in priso even when they get out for a lot of different reasons, they don't want to have anything to do with a variety of government institutions, not just the police and criminal justice system, but everything. they would be less inclined to try to access resources that are available to them in the wake of hurricane. william: it is an example of the systemic changes that are necessary. >> when an individual comes back from jail or prison and is unable to successfully start their lives the way we might

consider them to be successful, what results from that is poverty,omelessness, unemployment, a return to criminal behavior, and those are social issues that affect all of us. >> issues that my only worsen when the next storm hits. for the pbs newshour, i am lliam brangham in southwest florida. judy: an important but overlooked aspect of what happens after these terrible storms. thank you, william. and that is the newshour for tonight. i am judy woodruff. join us line and here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you. please stay safe, and we will see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- >> for 25 years, consumer cellular has been offering no contract wireless plans designed to help people do more of what they like. our u.s.-based customer service team can help find the plan that fits you. to learn more, visit

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