♪ judy: -- geoff; good evening. i'm geoff bennett. amna nawaz is on assignment. on "the newshour" tonight... the urgent effort by the u.s. and european allies to arm ukraine ahead of an expected russian offensive. anti-abortion activists march in washington, d.c., celebrating the overturning of roe v. wade wade while setting their sights on further restrictions. kristan: our movement is about doing one thing, and that's ending the violence of abortion. geoff: the republican leading one of the most influential congressional committees discusses his plans to investigate the biden white house. ♪ >> major funding for "the pbs newshour" has been provided by --

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>> the john s. and james l. knight foundation, fostering enged communities. more at kf.org. ♪ ♪ >> and friends of the newshour. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. stephanie: i'm stephanie sy with "newshour west." here are the latest headlines. the u.s. and dozens of other countries ighed whether to supply tanks to ukraine as the nation battles through another winter of war. after a 5 hour meeting in germany, there was no agreement.

they did agree to send hundreds of armored vehicles, but ukraine's leaders said they need the tanks to turn the tide of the war from russia. in peru, the capital city, lima, braced for more protests today after thousands of demonstrators clashed with police overnight. crowds demanded the ouster of the country's new president and appealed for new elections. police fired tear gas to disperse the protesters. dozens of people have died in the unrest since president pedro castillo was removed from office and jailed last month. the church of england has formally apologized for its treatment of lgbtq people and what it calls a hostile and homophobic response. at the same time, anglican bishops said a ban on same-sex weddings and churches will stay enforced. this follows five years of internal debate and came at a news conference in london. archbishop cottrell: and i also know that saying sorry doesn't

cut it for some people. it sounds hollow, "it is all very well you saying sorry, the church still isn't giving us what we want." that is what, how some people are responding. and i want to say, yeah, i do get that but it doesn't mean that the sorry isn't still heartfelt. stephanie: the bishops are proposing that the church allow services for same-sex couples that includelessings after they've had a civil wedding. new zealand education minister chris hipkins is set to become the island nation's next prime minister. he'll replace outgoing prime minister jacinda ardern. hipks was the only candidate to enter the race. he will serve eight months in the top role before the next general election. the wave of job cuts sweeping the tech world has now hit google. the company said today it's laying off 12,000 workers -- 6 percent of its total workforce -- as the pandemic-era boom fades. so far this month, tech firms -- to include microsoft, amazon and others -- have cut nearly 50,000 jobs. new numbers also give fresh evidence of a slump in the u.s.

housing industry. the national association of realtors reports sales of existing homes dropped nearly 18 percent last year from a year earlier. that made 2022 the slowest year for the u.s. housing market in nearly a decad the slowdown came as mortgage interest rates more than doubled during the year. elon musk began testifying in san francisco today, in a federal class-action suit over tweets about tesla. the billionaire claimed in 2018 that he had the financing to take his electric auto company private, but the deal never happened. investors say they suffered losses because musk deceived them about the funding. on the stand, he defended his tweets, but acknowledged by their very nature they can't provide full information. five colorado police officers and paramedics pleaded not guilty today in the 2019 death of an unarmed black man in aurora. police had restrained elijah mcclain on a suspicious-person call.

paramedics later injected mcclain with ketamine, a powerful sedative. he died three days later. the first responders' trials are scheduled for later this year. still to come on "the newshour"... covid casts a shadow over the chinese new year as hundreds of millions of people travel to celebrate with family... cities look to free public busing to counteract inequity... david brooks and jonathan capehart weigh in on the latest political headlines... >> this is "the pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington, and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. geoff: ukraine will soon receive an unprecedented amount of new weapons systems things to a deal made by a group of some 50 nations today. but the weapons do not include the one item that ukraine calls

a priority, western tanks. nick schifrin reports. nick: for ukraine's military support, today was the best of times and the worst of times. for the first time the u.s. will send stryker carriers, in addition to hundreds more ghting vehicles and european armored vehicles designed to provide ukraine with the fundamental building blocks for how modern armies fight. it's a major upgrade to ukraine's mostly soviet era armor to help kyiv try and seize occupied territory. the secretary of defense, lloyd austin -- secretary austin: this is a very capable package, and if employed properly it will enable them to be successful. nick: but ukraine did not get the item that it says it most needs, western tanks. there are 2000 german leopard ii

tanks in europe. germany today resisted calls to send its own tanks or allow other countries to re-export their leopard tanks to ukraine. the ukrainian president -- president zelenskyy: i can thank you hundreds of times and it will be absolutely just in fear given all that we have already done, but hundreds of thank you's. nick: poland's prime minisr -- >> the germans are defending themselves against this like a devil protects himself against holy water. nick: the u.s. and europe upgrading soviet era tanks at -- but the u.s. has also refused to send its own m1 abrams tanks. u.s. officials say its jet engine and jet fuel make it unsustainable. germany's vernment says they will only approve tanks as part of what they call a transatlantic lockstep decision. >> we don't fear anything, we have a responsibility for our population in germany and europe and we have to balance all the

pros and cons before we decide things like that. >> there is a reason you have tanks. the tank can absorb hits from almost anything. nick: retired general been hodges is the former commander of the u.s. army in europe. >> the gun has an ability to find targets that is unsurpassed. whether it's an abrams or a leopard, that kind of capability would be needed as part of the spearhead. nick: when the u.s. fights, it used combined arms, infantry but -- infantry, artillery but also tanks that u.s. sells all of the world. u.s. officials say that abrams tanks are too difficult ukraine to maintain. the abrams has a jet engine and requires jet fuel. what is your response to that? >> i think these are a series of statements that are not terribly inaccurate, but it is sort of a condescending attitude. i would say let the ukrainians figure out.

they can figure out how to do the fuel. we do it, egyptians do it, saudis do it. >> it will enable the ukrainians to be successful. nick: the u.s. says the long-term goal is to give ukraine the strongest possible position at the negotiating table. it doesn't use the word victory. >> the secretary never says what success is. to me this has been the missing thing all along. instead of saying we want to help ukraine win, we talk around that a little bit. if we don't get that part right here, this war will go on longer than it could. nick: on a german tanks, the national security council said they are not arm twisting germany but working to provide ukraine what it needs. for more on this, we turn to the undersecretary policy, w joins us from the pentagon. welcome back to the newshour. as we heard from the secretary of defense and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff the

, goal of the weapons packages that the u.s. and allies have announced in the last day or to conduct what the u.s. calls combined arms in order for ukraine to liberate occupied territory and yet the key , component of combined arms is the tanks. are you tying one of ukraine's arms behind its back by not providing western tanks? >> thank you for having me on. i think the main message coming out of the ukraine defense contact group, which was more than four dozen countries, was unity and solidarity in ukraine. we announced a package in the last 24 hours of $2.5 billion of additional assistance, which brings the total close to $27 billion since russia's invasion last february. allies and partners have provided enough armor for several mechanized brigades. so as the secretary of defense

made clear, we do believe we are providing ukraine capabilities in combination with the training to allow them to change the dynamic on the battlefield and really move away from the kind of trench style warfare that we are seeing some places to being , better able to combine fire and maneuver. nick: brigades an average of 3500 troops. the building blocks for how the u.s. things about how to fight. but didn't we see at the beginning of the war what happens when you don't conduct combined arms? the russians did it piecemeal and the ukrainians picked them apart. is there still the ability for ukraine to conduct what the u.s. calls combined arms without these western tanks it wants? >> i have no doubt the ukrainians can engage in combined arms warfare. but it's not just about the stuff, it's about training. we are working alongside

ukrainian forces to train them on the combined arms maneuver warfare you referenced. and i will just say on the tanks issue, we saw from the german defense minister today that they are still engaged in ongoing deliberations on the leopards. we know there are more than a dozen countries that have the tanks. they are having conversations with germany. we have to let this process play out. nick: when it comes to u.s. and abrams tanks, you heard general hodges call the argument that the abrams is too difficult to maintain because of its jet engine and jet fuel condescending and the ukrainians can figure out how to keep the m1 abrams going. why do you think they can't? >> i don't think the argument is that they can't. the question is can you deliver the capability on a relevant timeframe and at a level that is sustainable over time? the challenge with the abrams is it's expensive, difficult to train on and sustain, it has a huge complicated turbine engine that requires jet fuel and

frankly if we are looking at , delivering the ukrainians a capability that can use in the next couple months to try to change the dynamic on the battlefield, our assessment is that the abrams is not the right capability at this time. nick: another way to change the battlefield would be to threaten crimea, which russia has occupied since 2014. is it a u.s. goal to enable ukraine to threaten russia's hold hold on crimea? >> crimea legally and in the eyes of most of the world is ukraine. so it is occupied ukraine and if the ukrainians decide to conduct operations in crimea, that is their decision. nick: the british foreign secretary wasn't washington, d.c. this past week, and he said if we want to bring is to a successful conclusion, we should look to bring it to conclusion quickly. the conclusion has to be ukrainian victory. that is not a word the united states used. why not? >> it's not our word to choose.

the ukrainians will be the ones who define what the parameters of success are in their campaign. i will say this -- it has been our strategic objective to enable the ukrainians to achieve success as they define it, and also to ensure that the conflict is a strategic failure for vladimir putin and russia. and in that, the war to date has been a huge failure for russia. ukraine endures as an independent sovereign democratic country. russia wanted to end that. nato is stronger. it's not weaker. the world is more united, not more divided, and russia is not stronger. along every metric that vladimir putin set out at the beginning of the war, he has failed and i , expect he will continue to do so. nick: does that mean you are trying to give ukraine enough weapons to make sure russia doesn't win, but not enough for ukraine to achieve victory? >> we are providing ukraine the capability they need to seize the territory that russia

occupied from them. the exact parameters of ukrainian success or victory is something the government in kyiv will define. nick: you were then vice president biden's national security advisor in 2017. what were the practices when it comes to handling classified documents, which is in the news, and going forward will you , cooperate with any kind of special counsel or congressional request for investigation? >> i know there's a lot of interest in this topic, i can't really comment on it given the ongoing doj investigation. like the rest of the administration, i stand ready to cooperate and i know officials at the white house and other senior officials have made that clear. we will do everything we need to cooperate with the department of justice. nick: thank you very much. >> thank you.

geoff: antiabortion activists gathered on the national mall today for the annual march for life, the first time the march has been held since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade ending t constitutional right , to an abortion. in a report coproduced with pbs newshour, a kaiser health news correspondent spoke with those gathered in washington about what this moment means for them. sarah: today in the nation's capital, antiabortion activists celebrated an achievement decades in the making. >> this year is different. we have overturned roe v. wade. sarah: but movement leaders and grassroots activists gathered here say there is still work left to do. christine miller is from texas. abortion is illegal there. >> we've got to take this fight more to people and the people's hearts. it's letting people understand

that we love each baby and each woman and we want to help them , just show them that through all the difficulties of life we are here to help them. sarah: would you like to see a federal ban on abortion? >> absolutely we would like to see a federal ban, yes. sarah: lawyer nelly gray held the first march. >> babies are being killed in our hospitals and clinics. i can't tolerate it. america can't tolerate it. sarah: since then church groups , and conservative christian organizations have fueled the movement. for many, religious beliefs inspired them to get involved. trinity wicker is a senior at louisiana state university in baton rouge. she's part of a group of students who traveled here from louisiana, where women are not allowed to terminate a pregnancy even in cases of rape or incest. she has spent the week and washington, d.c. gearing up for today's march. the newshour caught up with her yesterday on the natnal mall.

as a young person, help us understand why you are invested in this movement. >> i believe that god is the creator of life and no human should be able to dictate whether someone should or should not live or have a chance at living. sarah: in a movement that is largely white, she says she wants to reach other black women. >> just let them know that it's nothe right way, it's not the right decision and once we inform them more about that, my peers as well, i think the movement can go a long way. sarah: for decades the march for life ended at the supreme court. this year it will pass by the u.s. capital and end between the capital and supreme court signaling a shift in the , movement's focus to lawmakers. >> we are not yet done. sarah: jeannie mancini organizes march for life. where do you want to take the movement next? >> it's a moment to celebrate

for the pro-life movement. roe was overturned just to stop , and take a step back and think of all the things that led to this movement. it's very important for today. sarah: since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, at least 13 states have banned abortions in all or nearly all cases and a number of other states restrict abortion care. across the country, abortion supporters are challenging bands in state courts. there is active litigation in 14 states. six months after the court decision, the effect on those seeking abortion continues to make headlines. women having miscarriages turned away from emergency rooms. and where abortion remains legal clinics are overwhelmed with , patients from other states. still 62% of americans think , abortion should be legal in all or most cases. >> the fight is not over. there is still crisis, unplanned pregnancies. sarah: kristen is president of

students for life, with more than 1200 student groups around the country. >> our movement is about doing one thing, and that is ending the violence of abortion. we are advocating for the passage of laws and that's what our intended effect is and our goal. sarah: is the goal to establish fetal rights nationally? >> absolutely. the movement has always been clear that we -- philosophically there is no difference between the fetus, the embryo, the zygote, whatever you want to call the child in the womb to the person you are today and both have an equal right to life. sarah: abortion pills, an fda approved regimen that safely stops a egnancy and induces a miscarriage are used in over , half of pendency terminations in the u.s. the pills are illegal in certain states and hawkins wants officials to crackdown.

would somehow prevent pills from so a state like texaswould somehow prevent pills from coming into the state? >> absolutely. we have been meeting wh state attorneys general's about this, talking about how state officials and officeholders can hold these companies accountable to stop distribution of these dangerous drugs in their states. sarah: today marks a turning point for a movement that has had a singular focus for decades. that focus is fracturing into competing priorities as the practical implications of criminalizing abortion take hold. for the pbs newshour and kaiser health news, i am sarah varney in washington. ♪ geoff: the house oversight committee -- under new republican leadership -- has announced its first hearing, set for next month, on mismanagement of pandemic relief funding. the committee's new chairman -- kentuc republican james comer -- says his passion is tackling waste, fraud, and abuse of taxpayer dollars in the federal

government. the panel's other priorities include investigating the biden administration's immigration policies, e u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan, and the business dealings of biden family members. i spoke with congressman comer earlier today, starting with the issue currently in the oversight committee's crosshairs -- the discovery of classified documents from president biden's time as vice president. house oversight committee chairman james comer, welcome to "the newshour." rep. comer: thanks for having me. geoff: your committee is zeroing in on classified documents discovered at president biden's private residence and office. what questions do you want answered? rep. comer: we would like to know who had access to those documents, how they ended up in multiple locations and who was responsible for notifying the national archives that these documents were in the possession of joe biden and why did it take so long for us to learn that

these documents had been recovered? we don't believe we would ever know were it not for investigating reporting by cbs. we would like to know what type of documents were in possession of president biden. geoff: the president initially said he was surprised to learn about the discovery of these documents. do you believe him? rep. comer: yeah. i am sure. that should be of more concern to the american people that he didn't know he had of them. it's hard for me to believe that when they were moving joe biden, they said we are going to take one set of documents to the biden center for democracy and we will take another set to the garage at the president's house in delaware. you would believe somebody at some point moved the documents from one location to another. that's why we need to know who

all was in the proximity of the classified documents and who in fact first discovered the documents and what that process was and why didn't the white house immediately tell the american people they had made a mistake and improperly stored classified documents considering the fact that the president made a very big deal out of it when president trump did the same thing. geoff: let me ask you about that. you have said that your biggest concern isn't the classified documents, but how there is such a discrepancy in how former president trump was treated. how can the american people view your investigation is credible when you openly admit that you are not as concerned about the underlying issue? rep. comer: the underlying issue is not being understooby the national media. the underlying issue is we are conducting a very thorough and substantive investigation of the biden family for influence peddling. there is no question the bidens

have received millions of dollars from our adversaries in china as russia as well as from some shady characters in ukraine. why are they sending so much money to the bidens? they want to return on their investment. when we learn that there are documents that have been strewn all over the place and people like hunter biden and the president brothers had access to those documents and they are under investigation for influence peddling, that's a concern. because we wonder whether or not this administration's compromised because of the millions of dollars the biden family has received from our adversaries around the world. geoff: you are connecting a lot of dots there. what evidence do you have to backup those assertions? rep. comer: it's not hard to connect the dots that there has , been a lot of money wired into various biden interests from our adversaries around the world and we are concerned that they are doing this not out of charity but because they want to get

something in return. when we find out there are documents that have been mishandled at the biden residence, where the president's brothers and son spend a lot of time, then we are concerned. geoff: will you subpoena white house officials or the president himself as part of this investigation? rep. comer: it's very complicated to subpoena a sitting president of the united states. the odds of that happeningre slim to none. we will have questions at the end of our investigation, i am sure, for the president, before we issue a report to give him an opportunity to challenge any of the assumptions from our final investigation because we want to be fair and balanced here. the president will have an opportunity to defend himself. i don'think it will be under subpoena or under oath. geoff: have congressional subpoenas been undermined by the fact that house speaker kevin mccarthy and other members have

defied subpoenas from the january 6 committee? rep. comer: i think the subpoenas have been undermined by the fact that the democrats issued too many. the democrats were sending subpoenas out to officials like junk mail, and the more subpoenas you issue, the less value they have. i think the whole credibility of congressional oversight has been undermined because of people like adam schiff and because of high-profile investigations from both parties in the past that never really amounted to anything. so i recognize the fact that congressional investigations don't have the credibility that they should and it's going to be my job to try to have a credible investigation based on fact that is fair and balanced and in the end hopefully there will be things accomplished. geoff: taking your point about

credibility, your committee includes a number of republican hardliners who have denied the election results of 2020, who have openly floated conspiracy theories. at least two of them have associated with white supremacists. why should any member of congress with that track record have a role on your committee , a key committee that has the responsibility of ensuring accountability across the entire federal government? rep. comer: both sides of the aisle on the oversight committee have what you would call firebrands. remember they have the majority of the squad over there. you have one who has said anti-semitic statements. you have ocasio-cortez. and presley and bush who have said things that i would consider anti-american. so both sides of the aisle have members of congress that aren't in the mainstream so to speak. i am confident the people on my committee are there for the right reasons. they are duly elected. they wanted to be on the oversight committee.

they fought hard to get on the oversight committee. this is the committee that was more demand than any committee in the house of representatives. i'm honored to have the people the steering committee chose to be on the committee. i will say this, anything that ends up on oversight committee stationary is going to be factual. we will look into a lot of things. i'm sure there's going to be things that people on both sides of the aisle say may or may not be 100% in line with reality sometimes. but at the end of the day when we publish a report and when our work is done with respect to certain investigation, i think you are going to see that 100% of what's going to be in that report is going to be factual and verifiable. geoff: house oversight committee chairman james comer, thank you for your time. rep. comer: thanks for having me. ♪

geoff: since the abrupt dismantling of the chinese government's zero covid policy, many people have been anxious about china opening up to the rest of the world and the wave of infections that have swept through the country. as special correspondent richard kimber reports, most are brushing risks and fears aside to celebrate the most important festival on the chinese calendar, the lunar new year. richard: it's just days to go before the start of the spring festival. in beijing, the holiday rush h already begun. this is the first time mass travel without covid restrictions has been allowed in nearly three years. for many of the capital's migrant workers who come to make a better living for their families, it's an emotional return home to be with their loved ones. qiziguang from changchun, in northeastern china, hasn't been back in five years.

qin: finally i'm going back home. before i was quite busy in beijing. and in theast three years, i couldn't go back because of the epidemic. richard: china's ministry of transport says it expects travel to double compared to a year ago, to more than 2 billion trips over the holiday period. it would mark a recovery to 70% of pre-pandemic levels. scenes at the railway station are in stark contrast with how it looked before china abandoned its strict, zero covid approach, following widespread anger over pandemic curbs. gone are the security personnel dressed in hazmat suits that patrolled transports hubs. and qr health-code checkpoints, where people had to verify their health status before entering are nowhere to be seen either. qin: of course it's now more convenient. it's easy coming in and out. i can go wherever i want. richard: but now the virus has been let loose some aren't taking chances. one man we spoke to called hua said even though he's returning home he won't be visiting , friends or relatives.

hua: the epidemic hasn't ended. i wear this to protect myself as well as others. richard: london-based health analytics firm airfinity forecasts china could see as many as 36,000 deaths a day over the spring festival holidays. over the past two months, covid-19 has ripped through the country, crowding out hospitals, and filling crematoriums like this. officially, about 60,000 people have died of covid-19 since early december. that's according to china's national health commission. medical experts say the true figure could be ten times that. but it's hard to say exactly where the death toll stands. the world health organisation has accused china of underestimating the severity of its outbreak. earlier this month, it also said a lack of data from the country was making it difficult to help manage the risks. mike ryan is executive director of the who.

dir. ryan: we are working ever closer with our colleagues in china to try and understand better the transmission dynamics but we still do not have adequate information to make a full comprehensive risk assessment and therefore we will continue to try to encourage access to that data. richard: medical experts have also warned the rapispread of the virus now might make the emergence of mations more likely. several countries, including the u.s., have imposed travel restrictions on arrivals from china. but at the same time, many other places are welcoming the return of chinese tourists. among them, hong kong. it's a special administrative region of china. even it had been largely cut off om the mainland, until borders fully reopened this month. the high speed rail line behind me connects the chinese mainland

to hong kong was closed throughout the pandemic. now it is reopening it's , expected to see a surge in the number of chinese tourists coming across the border. just to give you an idea of how important that is for the hong kong economy, before the covid-19 pandemic, more than two-thirds of the 56 million arrivals into hong kong from overseas came from across the border. since the covid-19 pandemic began, the city's fallen into a deep recession. many people are praying a rebound in retail and tourism will help lift the economy. but economists remain pessimistic, and say a meaningful recovery could take much longer. its fate tied closely to the mainland's uncertain outlook. china's surveyed unemployment rate for december likely stood above the government's targeted ceiling of 5.5%. dan wang is chief economist with hang seng bank. dan: with this kind of high unemployment rate, people's expectation for future growth prospects is quite low. and with that, that means even if we see some of the rebound

for tourism in big cities, the general recovery will not really be there. we really have to wait until 2024 before we see the general recovery. richard: but as the country marks its first spring festival free from covid restrictions, many people are simply celebrating the moment, and hoping to put the past few tough years behind them. for "the pbs newshour," i'm richard kimber in hong kong. ♪ geoff: the drive for free public busing is speeding up -- at least in some places. william brangham has more. william: there are a number of cities that seem to be moving towards offering 100% free service on public buses. in fact, that's expected to start here in washington, d.c. later this year. casey kuhn, who is one of our digital video producers, has been looking into that and filed

this report for our website. casey: taking the bus in washington, d.c. is about to g a lot more affordable. dozens of cities in america offer free bus rides in some capacity. but a new move by washington, d.c. could make it the largest city in erica to offer free bus rides, affecting hundreds of thousands of rdiers who wait at these stops every day. wion: i think it's a great thing, especially for graduate students like me. casey: he's a physicist phd candidate who studies biomass at georgetown university. and he says taking public transit is a must. wion: we don't have a lot of money and so transportation is always a big problem. so this is a small burden that is lifted in a way. casey: the d.c. city council voted unanimously in early december, to offer free bus rides for anyone getting on a bus in the district, resident or otherwise, and to extend a dozen popular bus routes. -- bus routes to include overnight service. majority of d.c. residents who

ride the bus make less than $50,000 a year, according to the city council. for riders like emanuel, who commutes to work by a bus it's , more than a convenience. it's a help financially. emanuel: it's gonna relate to 100 bucks. you're gonna save around every month, so it's good. casey: the change will cost the city and expected $42 million the first year and the move comes as part of a growing push to make public transportation ee across the country. other cities like alexandria, virginia and kansas city, missouri have already made their bus rides free. the goal is to create a more equitable public transportation that will benefit the people who don't have any other options. isabelle, who takes the bus on occasion, agrees. isabelle: i heard when they were in talks about that it was proposed but i thought there was no way it was gonna go through and then when a day or two later i saw it was past, i was very excited. i think it's gonna make it more accessible to everyone and especially it'll benefit those who need it most. casey: boston mayor michelle wu has also fought for free

transit. the state of massachusetts tried out free regional bus fares across the board during the holiday season only and the city has made fares free on several widely used boston city routes. pushing back against critics who say the lost revenue does not make up for the gain in ridership. the d.c. proposal cleared its la council vote and is now sitting on the d.c. mayor's desk. if it moves forward, free bus fares would begin in july. for "the pbs newshour," i'm casey kuhn. william: so as casey reported, there are still a number of questions for cities who are considering doing something similar. so to get a wider view of what's happening, we're joined by yonah freemark, who studies this field for the urban institute. thank you so much for being here. as we heard in the report, washington, d.c. is making this move. can you give us a little since -- why is it that cities do want to do this? what's the rationale for this? yonah: there are a few key reasons. number one, during the pandemic,

we saw a lot of cities want to improve service for their customers in a way that reduced the contact with drivers. so they said fine, ford on the back of the bus and don't pay a fare. and with that, i think a lot of cities got the idea and got the knowledge that it was possible to make buses free without too much of an inconvenience. at the same time, a lot of cities around the country are trying to increase the equity of service and trying to make sure that public transportation is something that's useful for everyone. william: as we heard in this report, a lot of dc riders on the buses are people who don't make a lot of money and so this could be a real savings for them. but she also reported that this is going to cost dc something like $42 million. are there other benefits that the city could get for that cost? yonah: well, the biggest benefit is going to go directly into the pocket books and the wallets of people who are riding the bus. and that's mostly going to be people who live in the city of washington but also some people from the suburbs. now, that doesn't necessarily

mean the city's going to benefit in terms of, you know, increased revenues, but it could benefit in terms of higher quality of life for the residents who live here. william: so are there examples of cities that have tried this? where those those goals have actually been met. meaning, does this actually work? yonah: so most of the research tells us that when cities make public transportation free, ridership does go up and we've actually seen that to be the case in richmond, virginia, where ridership on their transit system has increased substantially since the buses were made free. that said, there's not much evidence that making buses free is going to get people out of their cars. those people are likely to remain in their cars, even if buses are free. william: i see. so if ridership goes up, is it your sense that public transit systems around the country that might be considering this can handle that increased ridership? does their infrastructure have the capacity to take more bodies?

yonah: well, because of the pandemic and because of changes in the way people are working, we have seen a reduction overall in the amount of ridership on transit systems around the country. and as a result, actually transit systems have a lot of space for more riders. they will be able to absorb the increase in passengers for making buses and potentially trains free. but if the numbers went up dramatically, then yes, we would absolutely need more investment in improving public transportation services. william: i mean, as you're hinting at here, one of the criticisms is that public transit has been underfunded for a very long time, and now you're taking another revenue stream out of public transit. does that make these systems more sustainable in the long run, though? yonah: from a financial perspective, we have a problem in the united states that we have not provided sustainable funding for public transportation perhaps ever in the history of this country. you know, if you look at countries in europe and asia, you see a t more commitment to

making sure that everyone has access to good bus and rail service pretty much anywhere where they live. and that's just not the case in the united states, because we haven't spent the money at the federal, state or local levels. if we get rid of fare revenue, it's true that we might actually have an even bigger financial problem. but most of the cities that have talked about making buses or trains free, have backed it up with some other new revenue source. so for the meantime, i don't think we are going to expect a significant drop in the revenues for ansit systems. william: alright. yonah freemark of the urban institute, thank you so much. yonah: thanks for having me. ♪ geoff: this week, the u.s. hit its credit limit with lawmakers still divided over the nation's spending. president biden has been waving off handwringing over misplaced classified documents. that brings us to the analysis

of new york times columnist and associate editor for the washington post. welcome to you bot just yesterday, the u.s. hit its debt ceiling. the treasury department says it's going to take extraordinary measures to keep the u.s. government paying its bills. david this could be the riskiest , showdown yet given that kevin mccarthy, the house speaker offered those guarantees to , those republican hard-liners in exchange for votes to make him house speaker that there would be no raising of the debt ceiling without significant spending cuts. david: it makes me nostalgic for the debt ceiling crisis of 2011. it seemed more or less like normal people were in control internet you got people from planet -- and now you've got people from planet debbie who have the speaker in their hands. i do think it is a pretty serious crisis. how d the democrats react? some people say we should take unilatal action. there are very unusual ways that democrats could act alone.

the 14th amendment says the government has to y off its debt and they could invoke that and hope the supreme court backs them up. my favorite one, print a trillion dollar platinum coin. somehow that's legal. [laughter] i think the most likely is to go to the senate, try to build a bipartisan coalition of 60 votes with a plan, and throw it on the house and hope you can take some of the 18 house republicans in biden districts, hopefully public opinion by that point will be so much against going off the cliff that some of them will break and they can work with the democrats and get it passed. but that's a very tough road actually. geoff: what do you make of that strategy? the white house says they are not budging. one official said the debt limit was raised without strings attached a number of times in recent years when president trump was in the white house and republicans controlled congress. jonathan: right, and i think the white house is absolutely right to say emphatically and repeatedly we are not negotiating over the debt ceiling.

every time we have this conversation i am going to , remind people that the debt ceiling is not about new spending, it is about spending that has already happened. we have bought the car. we bought the ring. we took the vacation. we ate and digested the meal. we have put it on the credit card. we have to pay the bill. so the conrsation about raising the debt limit and the conversation about spending cuts on getting our fiscal house in order, which always seems to come up when a democrat is in the white house and is always forgotten when a republican is in the white house. those would be separate conversations. once they raise the debt ceiling, i think yakima everybody get together and let's have a serious conversation about how to get the nation's spending under control. but let's say that a zerout the budget. cut everything next year. the bills for the car and the ring a the meal will still be showing up. that's why they must be separate.

geoff: david, to your point about harkening back to the halcyon days of 2011, what makes this different is it can't be assumed that every republican isn't trying to avoid a fiscal armageddon. how do you see this resolving within the conference? david: two things. i think the democrats are right saying we need a clean bill. i think they should have in their back pocket a plan increase craziness happens, to offer the republican something so they can get 60 votes. the problem with the republicans and especially the more hard-core ones is they are doing what they always do. they are going into a battle for no plan on how to get out of it. and i don't think they even know what they are asking for in exchange. there's all sorts of dissension over that. there's just this nihilistic wing who think that stopping the system is what they are here to do and that's not exactly governance and you've just got to deal with the fact that they've got leverage right now and that's why i think the democrats should have a back

pocket plan. geoff: is there a political benefit here for democrats? jonathan: it sort of pains me to discuss this through a political lens but welcome to washington. there is a political benefit because the republicans will look even crazier as we go down this road. they are more unreasonable by the day. and we start watching the markets react to the craziness. in 2011, we watched the nation's credit rating get downgraded by one of the rating agencies for the first time in our history. markets are used to this and they might start reacting long before potentially june and start issuing warnings. if you don't take action here's what we are going to do. and the cost of the american people might not be seen immediately, but it will be felt down the road. geoff: as we mentioned earlier in the program, antiabortion

advocates from across the country gathered iwashington today for the annual march for life, the first time since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. david, abortion opponents have really met their primary goal of gutting roe. at least half states have banned or restricted abortion. where does the movement go from here? david: so far it gets decentralized. they used to have these big and they had a clear focus. national marches and they haa clear focus. now it is state-by-state and what you are seeing is a lot of national organizations being sidelined by state organizations and the action is in the state legislatures. there's wide difference in what the activities should be. a lot of the catholic groups want to put the emphasis on the pregnancy crisis centers to help women through this process and support them in the way they need to support them. others just want to work on the law and get to a basically zero abortion laws on the state level. what i'm curious about is how

this evolves. public opinion is shifting and national republicans walking away from hard-core pro-life positions because it is so unpopular. the big question for me, right now some states look like it will be complete abortion freedom and somstates with none. will popular opinion ever evolve to the point where it's 20 weeks or 15 weeks or whatever some midpoint will be, that's where a lot of the country is. but it is not were state laws are. geoff: jonathan, as it moves state-by-state it is still a key , issue in state legislative elections. there was a special election in virginia that was a proxy vote about abortion access. a democrat won that race. jonathan yeah. we were having this discussion before the midterm elections about what kind of impact with the dobbs decision have on the election. now we know and thanks to justice clarence thomas and his concurring opinion, he made it clear that it wasn't just roe v. wade.

we should also look at griswold which had to do with contraception. and while i think the movement may decentralize to the states, we still have senator lindsey graham who in the last congress introduced a national abortion ban. that is something that i think will be of great interest to the movement. but also who is to say that contraception, someone might not introduce a national contraception ban. we are in crazy times and we have to keep our imagination open. just because the movement has won on roe v. wade doesn't mean the movement will stop at the national level. geoff: this time last week we were talking about president biden's handling of the classified documents and how the white house was handling that issue. just yesterday the president spoke on the record about it. as he fielded the question he , first chided reporters suggesting there were more , important things to talk about, and then he said this. >> we found a handful of

documents that were filed in the wrong place. we immediately turned them over to the archives of the justice department. we are fully cooperating and looking forward to getting this resolved quickly. i think you're going to nd there is nothing there, i have no regrets, i'm following with the lawyers have told me to do. that is exact a what we are doing. there is no there there. geoff: so the substance of the case is what it is. but on the messaging it appears the white house has settled on something of a mitigation strategy. he's out here talking about it. david: i mean, he's going to have to talk about it. with the proviso that it's not like trump, the story is a little worse for the white house this week than it was last week. that's for a couple reasons. one, we have learned that they were hoping to deep six it so it would never come out. so they didn't report it for all those times because they thought they could make the justice department happy and it would never see the light of day. that just doesn't happen often

in washington. i think the effort to try to deep six it was not the right thing to do and it's backfiring on them. and then we learned that the story of revealing everything has been mostly right but there have been hiccups. they said we completed our search and then they find new documents later so it gets a little messier. i still think it's medium to medium small sized issue. but i think the administration as a general rule has a tendency to hoard information. and this is maybe a warning shot that they should rethink some of those habits. geoff: what is your take? jonathan: i disagree that the white house was trying to deep six. according to our reporting yesterday, they were taking the lead and giving deference to the justice department which was , already investigating. what we have here i think is a political pr response versus the legal response. and we have seen all sorts of

instances where those interests are completely different and are in conflict. and we are seeing it in high relief in this case. geoff: jonathan capehart and david brooks, always a pleasure to speak with you both. that is the newshour for tonight. there's much more online including a look at a law that is meant to make medical billing more transparent. be sure to watch washington week later tonight on pbs. and watch pbs news weekend tomorrow for a look at the anti-government protests in peru that are becoming increasingly deadly. i'm geoff bennett. thanks for spending part of your evening with us, and have a great weekend. >> major funding for "the pbs newshour" has been provided by -- ♪

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