♪ amna: good evening and welcome. i'm amna nawaz. geoff: and i'm geoff bennett. on "the newshour" tonight... northwestern syria struggles to recover from the deadly earthquake as politics hamper efforts to provide aid. amna: dominion voting system's lawsuit against fox news reveals the network's hosts didn't believe the election fraud lies they pushed in the wake of former president trump's 2020 defeat. geoff: and... a man who was released after spending 28 years in prison for a murder he didn't commit reflects on his wrongful conviction. >> i couldn't imagine giving up on something that was unrightfully taken from me. ♪

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>> the john s. and james l. knight foundation, fostering engaged communities. more at kf.org. ♪ >> and friends of "the newshour." this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. geoff: good evening. welcome to "the newshour." the death toll from the devastating earthquake that struck turkey and syria topped 43,000 people today.

that number is sure to keep climbing now that more search teams have reached the hardest-hit areas. amna: against all odds, rescuers are still pulling people out alive from the wreckage 11 days later. in the turkish city of antakya today, this 40-year-old man was freed after spending 278 hours under the rubble. but the window for finding more signs of life is closing quickly. geoff: officials in ohio say new testing has shown that the public drinking water in east palestine is safe to drink after a train derailment left behind toxic chemicals earlier this month. but the state still recommends those who use private wells continue drinking bottled water. governor mike dewine told residents that the air quality is safe as well. gov. dewine: today they have sampled air in over 500 separate homes. they've also sampled continue to sample air out on the streets and throughout the community.

so far they've had no detection of contaminants, no detection of contaminants. geoff: the governor also said that a chemical plume in the ohio river has now completely dissipated, and that there is no reason, he says, for concern. five former memphis police officers have pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder and other charges in the beating death of tyre nichols. the officers made their first court appearance today before a state judge. all five were fired and are now out on bond. nichols' mother was in the courtroom -- and later reacted to the arraignment. ms. wells: i want each and every one of those police officers to be able to look me in the face. they haven't done that yet. they couldn't even do that today. they didn't even have the courage to look at me in my face after what they did to my son. geoff: nichols died last month in the hospital three days after being brutally beaten during his

arrest. the former officers' next hearing is set for may 1. the u.s. military has finished recovering all the debris from the chinese balloon shot down off the coast of south carolina. u.s. northern command officials still maintain it was being used for spying. now that all of the remnants have been collected from the ocean floor, they'll undergo further analysis at the fbi lab virginia to determine exactly what the balloon was monitoring. the u.s. department of labor has fined one of the country's largest cleaning services for meatpacking plants $1.5 million for hiring minors. it says they employed more than a hundred children -- some as young as 13 -- to clean razor-sharp equipment with dangerous chemicals. they worked at 13 meatpacking plants across the country, including jbs d turkey valley farms. in northeast syria, four u.s. troops were injured in a helicopter raid in syria that killed a senior isis leader thursday night, according to the us military.

the u.s. troops, as well as a working dog, were wounded during the raid when there was an explosion. the raid killed hamza al-homsi, a senior isis leader. the operation was conducted with the help of kurdish-led syrian democratic forces. in germany, the war in ukraine dominated discussions at the annual munich security conference today ahead of the first anniversary of the russian invasion. with about 40 world leaders in attendance, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy appealed for more support. zelenskyy compared his country's struggle to a david vs. goliath battle. pres. zelenskyy: we need to hurry up. we need the speed, speed of our agreements, speed of our delivery to strengthen our sling, speed of our decisions limit russian potential. there is no alternative to speed because it is speed that the life depends on. geoff: vice president kamala harris is among those attending the conference.

she's set to make a major speech tomorrow on what's at stake in ukraine. anti-regime protests have erupted across iran, the most widespread demonstrations in weeks. video posted on social media overnight showed protesters marching through the streets of several cities to mark 40 days since two demonstrators were executed. the unrest first erupted in september after the death of a woman in morality police custody. human rights watch estimates iran's violent crackdown on dissent has killed over 500 people. and, stocks were mixed on wall street today. the dow jones industrial average gained 130 points to close at 33,827. the nasdaq fell 68 points. and the s&p 500 slipped 11. still to come on "the newshour"... a man wrongfully convicted of murder speaks out after being released from prison... south carolina becomes a focal point for the 2024 election as former governor nikki haley launches her campaign...

david brooks and jonathan capehart weigh in on the week's political headlines. >> this is "the pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington, and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. amna: turkey's interior minister said today that over 80,000 buildings in his nation were either destroyed or have become uninhabitable after last week's quake. the situation across the border in syria is di for the millions left homeless, so many of whom already suffered greatly through nearly 12 years of war. supplying shelter and aid is a prime focus there now. but remarkabl people are still being pulled from the rubble, after a week and a half. another miraculous rescue. mustafa avci was pulled from the rubble in antakya after more than 10 days.

his first phone call, to his brother. "i would die to see you smile," he told him. but most hope has faded elsewhere. in kahramanmaras, the epicenter of the second quake, families finally found their ved ones only to bury them. huseyin: we waited by the fire for 10 days to get the bodies our family members from under the rubble, ten days. amna: turkey is grieving and praying for those dead and alive. across the border in idlib city in northwest syria, 9 year old nour muhammad has been alone at this hospital since the earthquake. today, she's being taken to her father. their first embrace eleven days.

in the tent city of salqin, thousands of syrian families now left to live in the ruins. there's hunger and a childhood scarred. mohammed ali and his children were lucky to survive but nothing much is left of their home. they have lost 27 members of their family. the remaining survivors live in this tiny tent -- 17 men, women and children; everything they now own piled in this corner. mohammed: we need tents to use as makeshift bathrooms. we have not cooked a single meal since the earthquake. the first y or two they brought us meals. since then, it's closed and they've given us nothing. we need gas, things to cook with. amna: at the tent next door, 25 year old absi ahmed obeidi and

his aunt zahra abidi struggle to care for his four month old. he's all they have left -- ahmed lost his parents and sister. his wife is seriously injured. absi: we need everything, what can i tell you? i'm in this tent and all we have is a heater, no food, not drinks, nothing. i left barefoot. i didn't take anything from the building i lived in, it's all rubble. zahra: we don't have milk for this child. we don't have anything but this tent. some people gave some rice that we made starch from for the child to eat. we don't matter, we are used to it, but not our children. we need things like milk, diapers, warm clothes, and health services. amna: the needs are enormous but hopes have long since dwindled for these syrians displaced by yet another calamity. for more on this we turn to dr. zaher sahloul, president and

co-founder of medglobal, an organization that provides medical support to conflict zones around the world. he wasaised in syria, went to medical school there and came the united states in the early 1990's. welcome. thank you for joining us. tell us a little bit about what your team is doing right now, what they are able to do on the ground in syria and what additional aid is needed dr. sahloul: -- is needed. dr. sahloul: thank you for having me. our team started working after the earthquake, we have a team of 200 doctors and nurses and humanitarian workers. this is an area that has 4.2 million people, half of them are displaced from otr partour surgg surgeries nonstop, more than 700 doing smaller operations. we also provide health care services to the victims of the

earthquake that have lost their homes and are in temporary shelters. they are providing nutritional support for the children and pregnant women, medications for patients with chronic disease. psychological support for everyone, everyone is traumatized, including our team. amna: the need is so great, it is so enormous. we know there are three border crosses open to aid after president assad relented. is the aid coming in enough and going where it needs to go? dr. sahloul: it was tooittle, too late. it took more than eight days for the aid to start flowing and it was a major disaster in an area hit by multiple disasters in the past. this was an area in war the last 12 years. the covid pandemic the last three years or so. a cholera outbreak.

the weather is freezing cold and half of the population are displaced. now you have this major earthquake and therea was not ready for this. the last major earthquake in syria was more than 200 years ago. the aide started coming days after the earthquake because the border crossing was closed, and also from the blockage from the assad regime. since it opened, now we have more than 140 you in -- un trucks. it's not enough. people are fearing -- feeling deserted by the international community. amna: now that aid hasn't started to flow there are concerns that president assad is exploiting the tragedy and using it as an opportunity to normalize himself and emerge from isolation back onto the global stage. do you share that concern?

dr. sahloul: clearly the population in the area feels that way, they were bombed by the assad regime frequently. there is a history here of the regime weaponizing humanitarian aid. because of that, people are fearful that if humanitarian assistance were given to the assad regime, they will end up manipulating it as they have done in the past and preventing the population from getting any aid. right now the aid is flowing through the three border crossings. this should into new and be sustained so people have access to life-sustaining food, medicine and shelter. amna: the problem here, and this is why a love ur take, how can the united nations and the u.s. continue to provide the aid needed and at the same time not empower assad? dr. sahloul: i think our u.s. policy was clear and right,

which is basically providing aid to the population through local ngos directly and the un of course. local india's -- ngos should be funded by international funders because they know the needs of the population. they react much faster than the un, as we have proved in this crisis. many ngos started responding to the crisis moments after the earthquake. unfortunately what will come from the first shot of the earthquake will be even worse because of outbreaks of diseases such as cholera and other conditions and the malnutrition that will get worse. and because of the mental health trauma that affected the whole population. syria should be lifted as a priority to the u.s. administration and international community. people are paying more attention

to syria and maybe the biden administration should pay more attention to ending the syrian crisis politically and exert all of its diplomatic power to end the crisis. amna: thank you for joining us. ♪ geoff: a new court filing shows top executives at fox news and leading network personalities privately dismissed former president donald trump's false claims of voter fraud in the days that followed the 2020 presidential election, even as they pushed those same lies on television. sean hannity: tonight every american should be angry. you should be outraged. you should be worried and concerned about what happened in the election and the lead up to this election. judge pirro: the dominion software system has been tagged as one allegedly capable of flipping votes. tucker carlson: how, for example, did senile hermit joe biden get 15 million more votes

than his former boss, rock star, crowd surfer barack obama? geoff: the court filing reveals that behind the scenes many of the network's top stars and executives derided trump's election lies as mind-blowingly nuts, and totally off the rails, even as they criticized colleagues for pointing that out on tv. the filing is part of an ongoing defamation lawsuit filed against the network by dominion voting systems. joining me now is david folkenflik, who covers media for npr. david, thank you for joining us. first, explain how we learned about these text messages, xavier becerra part of this nearly -- how they are part of this nearly $2 billion defamation lawsuit against fox. david: it is a blockbuster case filed by dominion services, a company at the core of a lot of these claims of fraud ventilated

by fox news in the wake of the november 2020 elections. we have this voluminous filing from dominion that appeared last nig. trying to convince the judge even before the trial portion, he should decide the case in their favor. i don't think there's any expectation that should happen, but they have compelled an almost encyclopedic record of what was happening in real-time, drawing on text messages and emails and other communications as well as sworn depositions in which fox stars, executives and journalists were forced to acknowledge what they thought about things under questioning from dominion's lawyers. it is a brutal portrait we have seen about the cynicism, the sense of crisis and the fear and anger generated inside fox in reaction to their audiences recoiling from the network's own

call of arizona for joe ben on election night. the first of any major network to do so. geoff: what becomes clear reading through this filing is fox knowingly peddled election lies for ratings. there is a text in particular from tucker carlsen suggesting that a fox news white house correspondent should be fired for fact checking a trump claim about the election. he says please get her fired. i'm actually shocked, it needs to be stopped like tonight, it is measurably hurting the company, the stock price is down, not a joke. how concerned was fox about losing viewers to the right wing rivals? david: it was feverishly anxious about this issue and raised fears in sight vitriol, anger, and you see that in the private message between tucker carlsen and i believe sean hannity. you saw the chief executive suzanne scott lashing out at their washington managing editor, senior executive over political news for the network

because he took part in fox news's call of arizona for joe biden, which was what its audiences did not want to hear. people talked internally about breaking credibility and trust between fox news and its viewership built up over pony five years. -- over 25 years. you don't hear them talking about how credit ability and trust can be broken by not sticking to the facts and yet fox news time again brought on people, including than president trump but also his surrogates like sidney powell, rudy giuliani and others, to make claims that they were mocking and denigrating and trashing behind the air to one another. they knew it was false but they were trying to rebuild that trust in a hurry as millions of viewers fled fox, often for a more conservative, smaller rival. geoff: you mentioned sidney

powell, sean hannity said in a deposition, "the whole narrative sidney powell was pushing, i did not believe it for one second." how has fox news responded to all of this and what if anything does it do to their brand? david: fox will say that they were reporting newsworthy allegations from inherently newsworthy people about inherently newsworthy events, national elections, and allegations by a sitting president. could there be a more newsworthy person? they will say fox news is standing in for the press writ large and there has to be robust room for hyperbole and overstatements and misstatements when we are talking about important issues of national uncle -- national concern. otherwise there isn't free speech. geoff: you've covered fox news for more than 20 years. what stood out to the most from this revelation? david: it's the most visceral and tangible proof of one of the

strongest criticisms of fox, it functions in many wayss a political operation and a business improvise -- is this enterprise and wrapped itself in news, even with a cadre of journalists who many of them believe in reporting straight. i think you see the liability of that. and the cynicism and antagonism to the idea of being held responsible, that they behave responsibly or they have any obligation to the facts. that's usually where people find credibility and trust. in this case, they saw it only in telling people what they want to hear. geoff: david, thanks again for your time. david: you bet. ♪ amna: earlier this week, a st. louis judge ovturned the murder conviction of lamar johnson, a man sentenced to life in prison in 1995 for the murder of marcus boyd.

john yang has more as part of our searching for justice series. john? john: in 2021, producer frank carlson and i looked into johnson's case. we interviewed him in prison, spoke with lindsay runnels. onof his lawyers, at the scene of the crime in question, and with st. louis circuit attorney kim gardner, who re-examined johnson's case and became convinced of his innocence. gardner's investigation turned up even more proof of johnson's innocence. the prosecution's eyewitness recanted, admitting he'd only identified johnson because police told him johnson was ilty. and her team found records showing prosecutors paid that witness more than $4,000 for housing and expenses, information that was never disclosed to the defense. so, you have no evidence that he committed the crime. you have the confession of two other people that they committed the crime and that he did not. you have raised pretty good questions about whether or not

the trial was ir. people will ask, then why is he in prison? kimberly: that's a good question. i mean, that's a good question. john: on tuesday, after nearly 28 years behind bars, johnson left the courtroom as a free man . friends, family and supporters cheered him. now here are lamar johnson and attorney lindsay runnels. thank you so much for joining us. it is great to see you where you are rather than the visitor's room at the state penitentiary where we last met. it must have been a powerful moment when the judge said you are actually innocent, which is the legal term, and then you walked out of the courtroom a free man. you didn't have guards or anyone accompany new for the first time in 29 years. lamar: 28.

yeah, it was a freeing feeling, almost indescribable and going into the crowd was very overwhelming. but it happened. it happened. john: it also must have been powerful because you told us all along that you just wanted to get beyond the procedural matters that were keeping you in prison and have a hearing. and you had that hearing in december. and you sat there in the courtroom. you heard the prosecutor and the police officer in charge of your investigation saying under oath they had no evidence linking you to the crime. what was that? was that a feeling of satisfaction? how did you feel when you heard that? lamar: well, i knew it was because there was no motive, no physical evidence to connect me to it. and even with the eyewitness, he never verified any identification of me until he was at the police station after he identified somebody else in the lineup.

everything that came after that was after i was arrested so there was never any evidence to even bring me in for that. john: lindsay, you've been on the case a long time. what was different this time? lindsay: what was different was lamar johnson. through that protected -- protracted trying for a new trial, does missouri have the legal authority, they said no, but provided on the legislator to provide a law, and they did that, providing prosecutors the power and authority to correct wrongful convictions which up until that point did not exist. kim gardner in 2022, and because of that statute.

john: lamar, you spent nearly three decades in prison, your 20's, 30's and most of your 40's. you told us when we met last time as long as there is life, there is hope. you had some knee setbacks, so many times the courts said no. how did you keep hope alive during that time? lamar: it was all i had. i cannot imagine giving up on something i knew was rightfully taken from you. i could not imagine giving up. john: not only did you keep up, you do not seem angry and you did not seem angry at what happened to you. how do you explain that? lamar: holding onto anger, you would be trading in prison for another. theres nothing in that to gain. even though there have been setbacks and disappointments, in

the end there's a lot to be joyful about and i hang onto that. john: how have you been spending your time since tuesday? lamar: eating and having my friend run me around, that's what i've been doing. [laughter] enjoying all of the food i did not get inside. i've been able to meet with some friends and family and just try to get used to how much the world has changed. the technology and the choices going inside the grocery store, all of those things are amazing and probably things a lot of people on the outside don't give much thought to. john: is someone helping you with the transition? lamar: yeah, a friend of mine. he is an exonerate himself, his name is ricky kidd and he was exonerated about three or four years ago and he is very helpful because he's experienced of

this. john: lindsay, how many lamar johnsons are in prison waiting for an attorney like you to come along? lindsay: too many, conservative estimates are 2% to 5%. it is a breathtaking number. john: as i talked about how many years were taken away from lamar under missouri law, he gets gets , nothing, gets no restitution or compensation. does the state owe him something? lindsay: i believe the state owes him more than they could ever repay him. he's lost more, you know, the time that he can never get back. but missouri does have a compensation package. but it is so narrow that very, very few people qualify for it. john: can you try to get compensation? lindsay: there's pending legislation in the legislature right now that would expand the

eligibility under missouri's compensation package to include folks like lamar thompson, larry and ricky kidd and so many others. it has stalled in legislations prior. i am hopeful that this case will help highlight the need for that. but it's up to the legislature to do the right thing here. he has a gofundme. through the generosity of, you know, people all over the country and europe, even, we're getting donations. you know, people are donating small amounts to him that are adding up to, you know, enough money for him to start a life. but ultimately, he he is depending on the generosity of the public right now. john: lamar, i know you saw your mother, maye, and your daughter kiara. they came to visit you in prison. but what was it like to see them without the guards standing there, not in that visiting room? lamar: yeah.

you know, inside of in prison, you are only allowed 223 second -- 2 to 3 second brief hugs. and so that's one of the things that i got to do is to hold them them to know that, you know, i'm out and it allows us to heal. john: your daughter is getting married in april? lamar: she is getting married in and i am overjoyed to be able to april to be there and watch that that happen. john: lamar, have you thought much beyond that, beyond what the future holds for you, what you might do, what you might want to do, try to do? lamar: well, i mean, i worked for the doc 30 years, so i, i learned how to transcribe in braille. i know some graphic arts. but i am open to doing anything. i just want an opportunity, job opportunities, which

unfortunately is not afforded to me by the state of missouri. i mean, if i was giving out on parole, they would provide all type of assistance -- transportation, housing, employment, even. but they don't do that for exonerees. that's something that i would hope the legislature will look at as well. john: lamar, when i asked you what you missed in prison, you said you missed the things you hadn't done yet. and you specifically mentioned swimming in the ocean. have you got an ocean trip planned? lamar: i don't have one planned but god willing, i'll get that opportunity. that and flying in an airplane. so maybe i will get to fly in the airplane ticket to the ocean and i will enjoy both at the same time. john: all in one trip. thank you both and lamar, we wish you all the best. lamar: thank you, thankou some

much for having me. lindsay: thank you. ♪ amna: we may still be a year away from the first presidential primary contests, but the republican field is officially taking shape. nikki haley kicked off her campaign this week and several other potential candidates are eyeing a run. south carolina, home to one of the first primary contests next year, was in the republican spotlight this week. ms. haley: i am running for president of the united states of america. [applause] amna: as former governor nikki haley threw her hat into the 2024 ring. ms. haley: america is not past our prime, it's just that our politicians are past theirs. amna: the former un ambassador and daughter of indian immigrants offering her party a new vision of leadership. ms. haley: we're ready. ready to move past the stale ideas and faded names of the

past. and we are more than ready for a new generati to lead us into the future. amna: it's a message that could resonate with republican voters. >> time for new leadership. younger leadership as well. that's what we need. amna: more than half of them say other than former president donald trump, according to a new quinnipiac university poll. susan: go for it. if you could beat donald trump, i'll be happy. amna: while she is the first republican to challenge trump for the nomination, others are expected to join theray, with florida governor ron desantis, former vice president mike pence and south carolina senator tim scott, among those weighing a campaign. sen. scott: i'm tim scott. amna: scott, who was first appointed to the senate by haley 10 years ago, also found himself in the palmetto state spotlight. sen. scott: the story of america is not defined by our original sin. the story of america is defined by our redemption.

amna: delivering a black history month speech to the charleston republican party last night. and testing themes that could be part of an eventual presidential campaign. sen. scott: listen, i understand being trted as a second-class citizen because of the color of my skin. i refuse, i refuse to be treated as a second-class citizen because of the color of my party. i'm not playing that game twice. am: haley ended her first week as a candidate in new hampshire, but she and scott will cross pathagain soonn another early gop contest state, with both of them planning trips to iowa next week. for a closer look at the 2024 race, amy walter of the cook political report with amy walter is in south carolina and was at both nikki haley and tim scott's speeches this week. always good to see you. let's start with the messages we heard from tim scott and nikki

haley, talking about a new generation of leadership, generational change, drawing lines that say they are different from former presint trump but not anti-trump, what is the lane they are trying to occupy? amy: that's a good point. if you look at the republican electorate right now, maybe 35% are locked in with donald trump and are not interested in voting for any other candidate. probably 10% are considered anti-trump voters, they will never vote for him. that leaves a wide swath of republican voters who are not anti-trump but open to an alternative and that is a lane that these candidates want to try to fit into. one model of that lane is the ron desantis model that says i'm going to be a lot like donald trump. you like donald trump for a reason, because he goes after

the establishment, the elites, mainstream media, i will be just like that. and h's doing pretty well in the polls right now, at least the early polls. what nikki haley and tim scott are doing, they are saying essentially there's not enough room for me in this lane, the pugilistic we are going to take it to the establishment in the same way. they are running more as happy warriors than culture warriors. if donald trump was, as we saw in his inaugural speech, talking about american carnage, nikki haley in her speech running for president was much more reagan-e sque, more morning in america. the hope is that nikki haley will make the case that this more optimistic and aspirational message,, while still on the attack, let's be clear, she's not running as a moderate or anti-trump candidate, but she is

suggesting this is a more electable message. she says over and over again, republicans have lost the popular vote for president in seven of the eight last elections and what she's saying is you can get a fighter -- she's talked about being a fighter and underdog, going after th establishment a a governor, as a candidate in her past life, so you can still get that, but i will bring people in, bring in those voters turned off by donald trump and may be turned off by someone like ron desantis. amna: how is that happy will your message landing? you're watching people and talking to them about these messages, did anybody say they would back nikki haley or tim scott for president? amy: trump's shadow is still long and south carolina. we were in charleston, which is where i think it would be fair

to say there are a lot of republicans here who probably are not big trump fans or would be morepen to some but he like nikki haley or tim scott or somebody running against donald trump, not just somebody who i different from donald trump. the real question is whether or not they will be appealing to voters, again, just like in any other state, looking for an alternative but don't necessarily want someone who is all that different. this aspirational, more optimistic message, the reagan-esque message, it's not been that successful for republicans since donald trump came onto the scene at least during primaries. we saw this in 2016, we sawt in 2020 the candidates who won primaries for governor, for senate, for congress, ran much more like donald trump than like

nikki haley or tim scott. the appetite may not be there. amna: both candidates are from south carolina and both candidates of color. once on much of the party messaging right now seems to be pushing back on the idea of a more diverse america, decrying the so-called "woke'agenda, how do these candidates fit into that? amy: it was fascinating, they did not use the term woke at all, they said look at me and my family, how can we be a country that doesn't offer the prospect of achieving success when i've been able to do all of these things? my family has been able to succeed because we are a country , as nikki haley says, we need to stop our self-loathing is her way of talking about that. trying to really lean in,

instead of grievance, leaning into aspiration. amna: amy walter, joining us tonight from south carolina. always good to see you. amy: great to see you, thank you. ♪ geoff: as bids for the republican presidential nomination ramp up and new details emerge about the false claims of fraud from the last presidential election, it's time for the analysis of brooks and capehart. that's new york times columnist david brooks and jonathan capehart, associate editor for the washington post. welcome to you both. let's start with the revelation late last night in the court filing in the dominion systems lawsuit against fox news showing fox executives and hosts did not believe the election lies they were pedaling on television. david, what you make of the notionhat fox determined

telling the truth and being straight with its viewers was not good for its bottom line? david: i don't know whether to feel leader not that tucker did not believe it, that he maybe has some core that is honest. at the new york times and most other news organizations, we have two missions, we want to tell the truth and live up to e ethics of our profession, and we want to attract readers and serve our viewers and make money for company. dealing with that tension is not unique, doctors and lawyers do it, but that's how you find a balance, and you try to hew to the code of your profession and do it the best you can and hope readership will appreciate that. at fox that is not how it works, ye those of following the code of honesty of reporting, which is the only job, our only job is to tell the truth and not be partan, it is our only job. if you can't do the basics of

the job, pretty soon you lose all moral bearing and i think not everybody at that agency -- a lot of people already left. but a lot of people who used to be friends of mine lost all moral bearing. geoff: jonathan, in ways this reaffirms what critics of fox news have believed all along, that en though it has news in the title, it is a thin veneer at rest. jonathan: very thin, is more like carpaccio. what this filing shows is the big lie is indeed a big lie and people perpetuating it new it was a lie and yet still went on air night after night, perpetuating it, to the detriment of our country. they lost their balance, they lost their moral core, if any of them had any, and the idea that tucker colson says one thing on

air and believes something else off-camera is deeply disturbing. because of what we have seen, that kind of talk, that kind of rhetoric led to. january 6. we are still dealing with people who believe the nonsense that was being spouted on fox news. one other thing, i think david said but it should be pointed out, the reason there's so much attention on fox news isn't just that they were purveyors of the big lie, but because it is the number one cable channel by multiples. the majority of people watching cable television are watching fox news, and that's what has come out in these dominion papers so disturbing. geoff: staying on the topic of false claims of fraud, let's talk about the developments out of the special grand jury in georgia, probing former president donald trump's election stealing efforts in

that state. there was an excerpt released last week of the grand jury report that recommended indictments of one or more people based on perjury. that was it, that was all we got. what is your assessment? david: excerpt is generous. there wasn't much to it. i think the three investigations we'll be following for years, the justice department, southern district of new york, and georgia, and georgia strikese as the most real of them because trump really said find me those votes. i think we should be worried, is indicting a sitting president on perjury without the underlying crime, is that enough? i have to think about that but i would have some doubts. it suggests not much to me right now. geoff: to david's point, georgia is where donald trump faces some of the most lel exposure. what did you make of what we did or didn't learn this past week?

jonathan: 1, 1 big thing -- there are two big things. the first is you had not politicians, not democrats or partisans, not folks like us saying there was no election fraud or even experts saying there was no election fraud. what you had was a grand jury of everyday people who were presented evidence and they made a point of saying in that document that we saw no evidence of election fraud, that the election was 100% by the book. which to the big lie, it blows that up. the other thing is, saying there were people who perjured themselves before them and not knowing who they are is a big deal. what i want to know is what were the reductions? perjury seems to me a low bar.

i want to know, are there bigger charges that were recommended and how many other shoes are going to drop down the road when say, the fulton county d.a. decides to indict people? we don't know what is coming and i think we should have sort of a healthy weight and see. the legal wheels grind slowly but they grind and i am looking forward to what comes next. geoff: the legal wheels might grind slowly but political wheels are moving wiggly in terms of the 2024 race. on the republican side it looks like we have arrays on our hands. what were your thoughts about nikki haley this week? we heard that she is making the generational case and the electability case for her candidacy. david: and t personality case, she is the nice one. i think people are undercounting her. i think she is a good candidate,

i think the story she tells, the trump story, and in some ways the desantis store is a downward slope story, america used to be great and we are not anymore. her story and tim scott's story is an opera slope story, look at where we are going. i think that story has implications she's more dutch implications. she is much more muscular on foreign policy. i also think there's a trumpy lane for sure and i would put desantis and trump in it but there is a lane of pre-trump republican, or trump affected republicans who are still more traditional republicans. that lane in 2022 did pretty well and you might say there are more republicans like mike dewine than donald trump you did

i maintain the belief that there is another version of that kind of republican and i think she fits pretty well into that lane along with a bunch of others. geoff: looking ahead a little bit, or i guess a lot, how did democrats contend with a "normie" republican? jonathan: i don't think about -- i don't think democrats are holding their breath that a nomie republican is going to win them. i think nikki haley, the problem she has is her flip-flop situation when it comes to supporting or criticizing donald trump. she went to work for him. also i think she's going to have a problem explaining to the mag a base of the party why she took down the confederate flag and her views on race as we talked about them then. i thought i heard earlier, senator tim scott talking very

forthrightly about issues of race and his place in the party and i think he will do much better talking about, and must talk about issues of race in the republican party and he will be able to do so with a lot more credibility than nikki haley can simply because in her kickoff speech, she didn't talk about any of that. she talked about her immigrant story but she didn't get into any of the discrimination that her family faced or the horrific story about her father and the encounter he had of discrimination. how is she going to talk about that on the campaign trail? that's what i'm looking forward to, and it goes to happy warriors can beat out the angry, more power to them, but they still have to face a democratic nominee, who i still think is going to be the sitting

president and is not to be a cakewalk for them. geoff: i like to have you both reflect on the news this past week of senator john fetterman checking himself into walter reed to receive inpatient treatment r clinical depression. david, you wrote a piece for the times earlier this month about a friend of years who struggled with mental illness. the headline was how do you serve a friend in despair? there was a line in this op-ed u wrote that hit me in the chest. "i am told one of the brutalities of the illness is the impossibility of articulating exactly what that pain consists of." tell me more. david: i worked with my friend for three years until he lost his life to depression. i have little knowledge of how to deal with it, and i was like you have a great life, and that is the wrong thing to say. i would give him advice and what to do, he was a surgeon in vietnam and that was rewarding too.

what i eventually learned and i hope the friends of john fetterman learn, you're not going to talk them out of it, you jushave to walk with them through it, he there, be a witness, to show you haven't walked away, and you will be there on the others and that's all you cano for a friend, but it is a great service. geoff: jonathan? jonathan: one, i sent david and email the moment i finished reading his beautiful and raw piece about his friend pete and i encourage everyone to read it. it is vital. i think senator federman should be lauded for not only going to proactively seek help but making sure the american people and the people of pennsylvania know about what he has done. i think down the road we will see that what senator federman has done has impacted millions of people in a positive way. geoff: jonathan capehart and david brooks, have a great weekend.

great to see you both. ♪ amna: remember there is much more online, including a story about a new law in new orleans that requires the city's restaurants to remove soda as a drink option for kids meals. geoff: be sure to tune in to washington week tonight for analysis of nikki haley's presidential bid in the rest of the week's political headlines. amna: and watch pbs news weekend tomorrow for the latest from ukraine as the war-torn country prepares to mark the first anniversary of the russian invasion. that is the newshour. geoff: have a great weekend. >> major funding for "the pbs newshour" has been provided by -- ♪

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