amna: good evening and welcome. i'm amna nawaz. geoff: and i'm geoff bennett. on the "newshour" tonight, northwestern syria struggles to recover from the deadly earthquake as politics hamper efforts to provide aid. amna: dominion voting system's lawsuit against fox news reveals the network's hosts didn't believe the election fraud lies they pushed in the wake of former president trump's 2020 defeat. geoff: and, a man who was released after spending 28 years in prison for a murder he didn't commit reflects on his wrongful conviction. >> i couldn't imagine giving up on something that was unrightfully taken from me.

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the death toll from the devastating earthquake that struck turkiye and syria topped 43,000 people today. that number is sure to keep climbing now that more search teams have reached the hardest-hit areas. against all ds, rescuers are still pulling people out alive from the wreckage, 11 days later. in the turkish city of antakya today, this 40-year-old man was freed after spending 278 hours under the rubble. but the window for finding more signs of life is closing quickly. in mississippi, six people were fatally shot today in a small town. the shootings took place in a convenience store and two homes. authorities say a suspect has been booked into jail on one count of murder. officials in ohio say new testing has shown that the public drinking water in east palestine is safe to drink after a train derailment left behind toxic chemicals earlier this month. but the state still recommends those who use private wells continue drinking bottled water.

governor mike dewine told residents that the a quality is safe as well. gov. dewine: today they have sampled air in over 500 separate homes. they've also continue to sample air out on thetreets and throughout the community. so far they've had no detection of contaminants, no detection of contaminants. vanessa: the governor also said that a chemical plume in the ohio river has now completely dissipated -- and that there is no reason, he says, for concern. five former memphis police officers have pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder and other charges in the beating death of tyre nichols. the officers made their first court appearance today before a state judge. all five were fired and are now out on bond. nichols' mother was in the courtroom -- and later reacted to the arraignme. >> i want each and every one of

those police officers to be able to look me in the face. they haven't done that yet. they couldn't even do that today. they didn't even have the courage to look at me in my face after what they did to my son. geoff: nichols died last month in the hospital, three days after being brutally beaten during his arrest. the former officers' next hearing is set for may 1. the u.s. military has finished recovering all the debris from the chinese balloon shot down off the coast of south carolina. u.s. northern command officials still maintain it was being used for spying. the remnants will undergo further analysis at the f.b.i. lab in virginia to determine exactly what the bloop was monitoring. the u.s. department of labor has fined one of the country's largest cleaning services for meatpacking plants $1.5 million for hiring minors.

it says they employed more than a hundred children -- some as young as 13 -- to clean razor-sharp equipment with dangerous chemicals. they worked at 13 meatpacking plants across the country, including j.b.s. and turkey -- including j.b.s. in northeast syria, four u.s. troops were injured during a hecopter raid in syria that killed a senior isis leader thursday night, according to the u.s. military. the raid killed hamza al-homsi, a senior isis leader. the operation was conducted with the help of kurdish-led syrian democratic forces. in germany, the war in ukraine dominated discussions at the annual munich security conference today. with about 40 world leaders in attendance, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy appealed for more support, comparing his country's struggle to a "david vs. goliath" battle. pres. zelenskyy: we need to hurry up. we need the speed, speed of our agreements, speed of our delivery to strengthen our

sling, speed of our decisions to limit russian potential. there is no alternative to speed because it is speed that the life depends on. vanessa: anti-regime protests have erupted across iran -- the most widespread demonstrations in weeks. video posted on social media overnight showed protesters marching through the streets of several cities to mark 40 days since two demonstrators were executed. the unrest first erupted in september after the death of a woman in morality police custody. human rights watch estimates iran's violent crackdown on dissent has killed over 500 people. still to come, a man wrongfully convicted of murder speaks out after being released from prison. also south carolina becomes a foe tall point for the 2024 election as former governor nikki haley launches her campaign. and david brooks and jonathan

capeheart weigh in on the week's political headlines and more. >> this is the "pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington, and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at the arizona state university. vanessa: turkiye's interior minister said over 80,00 builngs in his nation were destroy or become uninhabable after the quake. the situation is dire for the millions left homeless, so many of whom already suffered greatly through nearly 12 years war. supplying shelter and aid is a prime focus there now. but remarkably, people are still being pulled from the rubble after a week and a half. >> another miraculous rescue. mustafa avci was pulled from the rubble in antakya after more than 10 days.

his first phone call was to his brother. "i would die to see you smile," he told him. but most hope has faded elsewhere. in kahramanmaras, the epicentre of the second quake, families finally found their loved ones only to bury them. >> we waited by the fire for 10 days to get the bodies of our family members from under the rubble, 10 days. >> turkey is grieving. and praying. for those dead and alive. across the border in idlib city in northwest syria, 9-year-old nour muhammad has been alone at this hospital since the earthquake. today, she's being taken to her father. their first embrace in 11 days.

in the tent city of salqin, thousands of syrian families now left to live in the ruins. there's hunger. and a childhood scarred. mohammed ali and his children we lucky to survive. but nothing much is left of their home. they have lost 27 members of their family. the remaining survivors live in this tiny tent. 17 men, women, and children. everything they now own, piled in this corner. >> we ed tents to use as makeshift bathrooms. we have not cooked a single meal since the earthquake. the first day or two they brought us meals. since then, it's closed and they've given us nothing. we need gas, things to cook with. >> at the tent next door, 25 year old absi ahmed obeidi and his aunt zahra abidi struggle to care for his four month old.

he's all they have left, ahmed lost his parents and sister. his wife is seriously injured. >> we need everything, what can i tell you? i'm in this tent and all we have is a heater, no food, not drinks, nothing. i left barefoot. i didn't take anything from the building i lived in, it's all rubble. >> we don't have milk for this child. we don't have anything but this tent. some people gave some ri that we made starch from for the child to eat. we don't matter, we are used to it, but not our children. we need things like milk, diapers, warm clothes, and health services. >> the needs are enormous but hopes have long since dwindled for these syrians displaced by yet anothe calamity. for more on this we turn to dr. zaher sahloul, president and co-founder of medglobal, an

ganization that provides medical support to conflict zones around the world. he was raised in syria, went to medical school there and came the united states in the early 1990's. welcome. thank you for joining us. tell us a little bit about what your team is doing right now, what they're able to do, on the ground in syria, and what additional aid is needed? dr. sahloul: thank you for having me. our team started working right after the earthquake. we have a team of00 doctors and nurses and humanitarian workers. we run two hospitals and multiple clinics. as you know, this is an area that has 4.2 million people. half of them are displaced from other parts of sir yasm so our surgeons have been doing surgeries nonstop. more than 700 procedures between major operations and smaller operations. we also mobilized a mobile clinic to provide health care services to the victims of the earthquake that now lost their homes and they are in temporary

shelters. so they're providing nutritional support for the children and pregnant women, medications for patients with chronic diseases. psychosocial support for everyone, because everyone is traumatized, including our medical team. >> as you just described, as we saw in the report, the need is so great. it is so enormous. we know now there are three border crossings that are open to aid after president al-assad relented days after the earthquake. is the aid that's coming in enough? is it going where it needs to go? dr. sahloul: too little, too late. it took more than eight days for the aid to start flowing and this is in a major disaster, an area hit by multiple disasters in the pats. as everyone knows this is an area that was the the place of war for 12 year, covid outbreak for three years, there's a cholera outbreak, the weather is

freezing cold, half of population is displaced and now you have this major earthquake. the area was not ready for. this the last major earthquake th hit syria was more than 200 years ago. the from the started come, trickling, eight days after the earthquake because the border ossing was -- were closed because the damage that happened to the road, also because of the blockage from the assad regime to the border crossing. since it opened we have more than 140 u.n. trucks that went through. it is not enough. people are feeling deserted by the community after the earthquake. >> now that aid has started to flow there are concerns that president assad is exploiting this tragedy, using it as an opportunity to normalize himself and emerge from isolation back on the global stage. do you share that concern? dr. sahloul: clearly the population in that area feels

that way. this is an area that was bombed by the assad regime frequently. there is a history here of the assad regime weaponizing humanitarian aid. and because of that, people are fearful in idlib if humanitarian assistance is given to the assad regime they'll end up manipulating it as they have done in the past and preventing the population from gettinged a. right nowed ais flowing through three border crossin. this should continue and be sustained so people have access to life-sustaining food, medicine and shelter. >> s the the problem here, this is where i'd love yr take, how can the united nations, huh can the u.s., continue to provide the aid that's neede and at the same time not empower assad? dr. sahloul: i think our u.s. policy was clear and right, which is basically providing aid to the population through the

local n.g.o.'s directly and through the u.n., of course. local n.g.o.'s should be supported directly by the usaid and other international funders because they know what are the needs of the population. they react much faster than the u.n. as we have proved in this crisis. medglobal team and other groups started responding minutes after the earthquake. the u.n. took more than eight days to get there. unfortunately what will come after the first shock from the earthquake will be even worse because of the outbreaks of diseases including cholera and other diseases and the malnutrition that will get worse and because of the mental health trauma that affected the whole population. so syria should be lifted as a priority to the u.s. administration and to the international community. the silver lining of the earthquake is people are paying more attention to syria and maybe the biden administration should pay more attention to ending the syrian crisis

politically and exert all of its diplomatic power to end the crisis. doctor, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> a new court filing shows top executives at fox news and leading network personalities privately dismissed former president donald trump's false claims of voter fraud in the days that followed the 2020 presidential election, even as they pushed those same lies on television. sean hannity: tonight every american should be angry. you should be outraged. you should be worried and concerned about what happened in the election. jeanine pirro: the dominion software system has been tagged as one allegedly capable of flipping votes. tucker carlson: how, for example, did senile hermit joe biden get 15 million more votes

than his former boss, rock star, crowd surfer barack obama? >> the court filing reveals that behind the scenes many of the network's top stars and executives derided trump's election lies as "mind-blowingly nuts," and "totally off the rails" - even as they criticized colleagues for pointing that out on tv. the filing is part of an ongoing defamation lawsuit filed against the network by dominion voting systems. joining me now is david folkenflik, who covers media for npr. thanks for joining us. first, explain how we learned about these text messages, how they're part of this nearly $2 billion defamation lawsuit filed against fox? the doorkeeper: david: it's a blockbuster case filed against fox. it's a tech company at the base of a lot of the allegations of

fraud in the aftermath of the november, 2020, elections. what we have is a voluminous filing from dominion that appeared last night. what they're doing is making a motion, trying to convince the judge that even before the trial portion of the case, he should just decide the case in their favor. i don't think there's any real expectation that cld happen. but what they've done is compiled and almost enpsych l peddic record of what was happening in real time, drawing on text messages, emails and other communications, as well as sworn depositions in which fox stars and executives an off-air journalists have been forced to acknowledge what they thought abouthings under oath from dominion's lawyers. it is a brutal, brutal portrayal we have seen about the cynicism, the sense of crisis, and the fear and anger that was generated inside of fox in reaction to their audience's -- audiences recoiling of their call of arizona for joe biden on

election night, the first major network to do so. what becomes clear is fox knowingly peddled election lies for ratings. there's a text from tucker carlson who is suggesting that a fox news white house correspondent should be fired for fact checking a trump claim about the election. he says please get her fired. i'm actually shocked. it needs to be stopped immediately like tonight. it's measurably hurting the company, the stock price is down, not a joke. how concerned was fox about losing viewers to their right-wing rivals? david: it was feverishly anxious about this issue. raised fierce inside, anger inside you see that in private messages between tucker carlson and i believe sean hannity. you saw the c.e.o. of fox news, sue southern scott, lashing out at tir washington managing editor, senior executive over political news for that network. why? he took part in fox news' call

of arizona for joe biden whi was exactly what its audiences didn't want to hear. people talked internally about this breaking credibility and trust between fox news and its audiences. its viewership. built up over a generation, over 25 years. you don't hear them talking about how credibility and trust can be broken by not sharing the truth with your audience, by not sticking to the facts. and yet fox news time and again brought on people, including then-president trump but also sur tbats and champion, people like sydney powell, rudy giuliani and others, to make claims that they were mocking and assailing, denigrating and trash, behind the air to one another. because they knew it was false but they were bringing them on, why? to try to rebuild that trust in a hurry as millions of viewers fled fox. often for a much smaller, conservative rival called newsmax. >> you mentioned sydney powell, the trump ally, coniracy theorist lawyer. sean hannity, even as he gave

her air time, said in a deposition, quote, the whole narrative sydney powell was pushing, i didn't believe it for a second. how has fox news responded to all this and what does it do to their brond brand? david: fox will say they were reporting news worthy allegations about inherently news worthy events. that is the national elections. allegations by a sitting president. could there be a more neurt worthy person. they would say fox news is standing in for the press writ large. there has to be robust room for there to be rhetoric and hyperbole and overstatement and at times misstatements when we're talking about important issues of national and political concern. that's what the first amendment envisions. you have to have running room or there isn't truly free speech. >> you've covered fox news for more than 20 years. what stood out to you most from this revelation? david: i think it's the most visceral, tangible proof of one they have strongest criticisms

of fox that it functions as many ways as a political operation and business enterprise and wraps itself in the word news even with a cadre of journalist, some of whom very much believe in reporting things straight. i think you saw the lie being given to that. i think you saw the cynicism and the antagonism to the idea that they'd be held responsible, that they'd behave responsibly and that they had any obligation to the truth and facts. that'ssually where people find credibility and trust. in this case, they saw it only inelling people what they wanted to hear. >> david folkenflik covers the media for npr. thank you for your time. david: you bet. >> earlier this week a st. louis judge overturned the murder conviction of lamar johnson, a man sentenced to life in prison in 1995 for the murder of marcus boyd. john yang has more as part of our "searching for justice"

series. john? john: amna, in 2021, producer frank carlson and i looked into johnson's case. we interviewed him in prison, spoke with lindsay runnels, one of his lawyers, at the scene of the crime in question, and with st. louis circuit attorney kim gardner, who re-examined hnson's case and became convinced of his innocence. gardner's investigation turned up even more proof of johnson's innocence. the prosecution's eyewitness recanted, admitting he'd only identified johnson because police told him johnson was guilty. and her team found records showing prosecutors paid that witness more than $4,000 for housing and expenses, information that was never disclosed to the defense. so, you have no evidence that he committed the crime. you have the confession of two otr people that they committed the crime and that he did not. you have raised pretty good questions about whether or not the trial was fair.

people will ask, then why is he inrison? mberly gardner: that's a good question. i mean, that's a good question. john: on tuesday, after nearly 28 years behind bars, johnson left the courtroom as a free man friends, family and supporters cheered him. and now here are lamar johnson and one of his attorneys lindsay runnels. lamar and lindsey, thank you so much for joining us. lamar, i have to ask you -- number one, i want to tell you, it's great to see you where you are rather than in the visitors room of the missouri state penitentiary where we last met. but lamar -- that must have been a porful moment when, number one, when the judge said tt you are actually innocent, which is the legal term, and then you walked out of the courtroom a free man, you didn't have guards, you didn't have anyone accompanying you for the first time in, what, 29 years? lamar: 28. yeah, that was a freeing feeling. it's almost indescribable.

and going on to that crowd was very overwhelming. but it happened. it happened. john: it also must have been powerful because you told us all along that you just wanted to get beyond the procedural matters that were keeping you in prison and have a hearing. and you had that hearing in december. and you sat there in the courtroom. you heard the prosecutor and the police officer in charge of your investigation saying under oath they had no evidence linking you to the crime. what was that? was that a feeling of satisfaction? how did you feel when you heard that? johnson: well, i knew it was because there was no motive, no physical evidence to connect me to it. it was. and even with the eyewitness, he never verified any identification of me until he was at the police station after he identified somebody else in the lineup. so everything that came after

that was after i was arrested. there never was any evidence to bring me in. john: lindsay you've been on this case for a long time. kim gardner had tried once before to get a new trial. what was different this time? lindsay: what was different was lamar johon. from that trial in st. louisll the way to the supreme court, the question was does the prosecutor have the authority to go to court and overturn the conviction. the court said no but called on the legislature to give them that power. so the legislature gave them the power to allow them to do this. kim gardner filed that appeal.

john: you spent most of your life in prison. you told us when we met last time that as long as there's life, there's hope. you had so many setbacks. so many times the courts said no. how did you keep your hope alive during that time? lamar: it was all i had. i couldn't imagine giving up on something that i know was wrongfully taken from me. i couldn't mang giving up. john: not only did you keep open alive, but you don't seem angry. you didn't seem angry at what was done to you. how do you explain that? lamar: holding on to anger would be trading one prison for another. there's nothing in that to gain. and even though there's been a lot of setbacks and disappointments, you know, in the end there's still a lot to be joyful about. so i hang on to that.

john: how have you been spending your time since tuesday? lamar: eating and having my friend run me around. that's what i've been doing. enjoying all the foods that i didn't get inside. i've been able to meet with some friends and family and just try to get used to how much the world has changed. just the technology and all the choices going inside of a grocery store, all those things are just amazing and probably things a lot of people on the outside don't rally give much thought to. john: is someone helping you with the transition? lamar: yeah, he's a friend of mine, he's an exoneree himself, rickey kidd. he was exonerated three or four years ago. he's been helpful because he's experianed.

this john: lindsay, how many more lamar johnsons are there in prison waiting for someone like you to come along? lindsay: too many. conservative estimates are 2% to 5%. when you think about two million people in custody, i'm not good at math but that's a breathtaking number. john: as we talked about how many years were taken away from lamar, under missouri law he gets -- gets nothing. gets no restitution. or compensation. does the state owe him something? lindsay: i believe the state owes him more than they could ever repay him. he's lost more, you know, the time that he can never get back. but missouri does have a compensation package but it is so narrow that very, very few people qualify for it. john: can you try to get compensation? lindsay: there's pending legislation in the legislature right now that would expand the eligibility under missouri's

compensation package to include folks like lamar johnson, and rickey kidd and so many others. it has stalled in legislatures prior. i'm hopeful that this case will help highlight the need for that. but it's up to the legislature to do the right thing here. he has a gofundme and through the generosity of, you know, people all over the country and europe even, we're getting donations, people are donating small amounts to him that are adding up to, you know, enough money for him to start a life. but ultimately, he is depending on the generous i have to the public right now. john: i know you saw your mother and your daughter, they came to visit you in prison. what was it like to see you without the guards standing there, not in that visiting room? lamar: yeah, in prison you're only allowed two to three second

brief hugs. and so that's one of the things got to do is to hold them. and to just to have a proper hug and to -- for them to know that, you know, i'm out. and that i didn't do this. and it allows us to heal. john: have i read this correctly, kiera is getting married in april? your daughter? lamar: she is. am overjoyed to be able to be and watch that happen. on: have you thought much beyond that, beyond what the future holds for you? what you might do? what you might want to do, try to do? lamar: i worked d.o.c. for 30 years. i learned how to become, how to transcribe in braille. i know some graphic arts. i'm open to doing anything. i want and opportunity, a job opportunity, which unfortunately is not afforded to me by the statef missouri.

i mean if i was getting out on parole they'd provide all type of assistance, transportation, housing, employment even. but they don't do that for exonorees. that's something i hope the legislature will look at as well. john: when i asked you what you missed in prison you said you missed the things you hadn't done. that you hadn't done yet. you specifically mentioned swimming in the ocean. have you got and ocean trip planned? lamar: i don't have one planned but god willing i'll get that opportunity. that and flying in an airplane. so maybe i'll get to do that, fly in the airplane to get to the ocean. and i'll enjoy both at the same time. john: do it a in one trip. lamar johnson, lindsay runnels, thank you both. lamar, we wish you all the best. lamar: thank you so much more

having me. ep. lindsay: thank you. >> we may still be ayear away from the republican primary but the race has already begun. knick iowa haley announced her candidacy this year south carolina, home one of the first contests this year was in the republican spotlight this yeek.f the united states of america. >> as former governor nikki haley threw her hat in the ring. >> america is not past its prime, it's just our politicians are past theirs. >> the daughter of indian immigrants offering a new vaition. >> -- new vision. >> we're ready to move past the

stale ideas and faded names of the past and we are more than ready for a new generation to lead us into the future. [applause] >> it's a message that could resonate with republican voters. >> time for new leadership. younger leadership as well. that's what we need. >> more than half of them say they'll vote for a candidate other than former president donald trump, according a new quinnipiac poll. >> go for it, nikki. if you can beat donald trump, i'll be happy. >> while she's the first republican to challenge trump for the nomination, others are expected to join the fray with florida governor ron desantis, former vice president mike pence and south carolina senator tim scott among those weighing a campaign. >> i'm tim scott. >> scott who was first apoibed by the senate by haley 10 years ago also found himself in the palmetto state spotlight. >> the story of america is not defined by our original sin. the story of america is defined by our redemption.

>> delivering a black history month speech to the charleston republican party last night and testing themes that cowl be pt of an eventual presidential campaign. >> listen, i understand being treated as a second class citizen because of the color of my skin. i refuse, i refuse to be treated as a second class citizen because of the color of my party. i'm not playing that game twice. >> nikki haley. >> haley ended her first week as a candidate in new hampshire. but she and scott will cross paths again soon in another early g.o.p. contest state with both of them planning trips to iowa next week. fo a closer look at the 2024 race, amy walter of the cook political report with amy walter is in south carolina and was at both nikki haley and tim scott's speeches. always good to see you. let's start with the messages from timm scott and nikki haley, talking about a new generation

of leadership, generational change, drawing lines that say they're different from former president trump but not really anti-trump. what's the lane they're trying to operate in? >> that's a very good point. if you look at the republican electorate right now, about 30%, maybe 35% are locked in with donald trump. they're not interested in voting for any other candidate than donald trump. probably 10% or so are considered anti-trump voters. they don't want, and will never vote for donald trump in a primary. that leaves a pretty wide swa of republican voters who aren't anti-trump and are open to an alternative. that's the lane that all the candidates want to try to fit into. now one model of that lane is theron desantis model which says i'm going to be a lot like donald trump you liked donald trump for a reason. because he goes after the establishment. the elites. the mainstream media. i'm going to be just like that.

and he's doing pretty well in polls right now, at least the early polls. what nikki haley and tim scott are doing is, we're not -- there's not room for us in that lane. they're running more as happy warriors than as culture warriors. if donald trump was, as we saw in his inaugural speech, talking about mesh carnage, nikki haley and her speech running for president was much more reaganesque. more morning in america. and the hope that nikki haley is, or at least made the case that she's making, is that this more optimistic, more aspirational message, while still -- she's still on the attack. she's not running as a moderate. not running as an anti-trump candidate. what she's suggesting is that this is a more electable message. she says over and over again,

you know, republicans have lost the popular vote for president. in seven of the last eight elections. and what she's basically saying to republican voters is, you can get a fighter, she talked a lot about being a fighter, being an underdog, going after the establishment, as a governor, as a candidate, in her past life. so you can still get that. but i'm going to bring people in. bring in those voters who were turned off by donald trump and maybe turned off by someone like desantis as well. >> how is that happy warrior message landing? you're in the room, watching people, listening to them, talking to them as they hear the messages. did anyone say they would back haley or scott for president? >> trump's shadow is still really very, very long here in south carolina. and we were in charleston, which is where, i think, it would be fair to say there are a lot of republicans here who probably

aren't big trump fans or would be more open to somebody like a nikki haye lee or timm scott or someone running against donald trump, not just somebody who is different from donald trump. the real question is, whether or not they will be appealing to voters, again, just like in any other state, who are looking for an alternative, and -- but don't necessarily want someone who is all that different, right? this aspirational, more optimistic message, sort of a reaganesque mess am, let's be clear, it hasn't been that successful for republicans since donald trump came on the scene, at least not in primaries. we saw this obviously in 2016. we saw it in 2022. the candidates who won primaries for governor, for senate, for congress, ran much more like donald trump than like nikki

haley or tim scott. so the appetite may not be there. >> both candidates from texas. -- from south carolina. both candidates of color. when of the party messages seems to be pushing back on the idea of a more diverse america, decrying the so-called woke agenda, how do these two candidates fit into that? >> it was fascinate, they didn't use the term "woke" at all. instead, in the theme of being aspirational or inspirational, they said look at me, look at my family. how can we be a country that doesn't offer the prospect of achieving success when i've been able to d all of these things. my family has been able to succeed because we're a country as nikki haley says, we need to stop our self-loathing, is her term, her way of talking about that. so again trying to really lean in, instead of grievance, leaning in to the aspiration.

>> amy walter of "the cook political report with amy walter," joining us from south carolina. always good to see you. >> great to see you, thank you. >> as bids for the republican presidential nomination ramp up, and new details emerge about the false claims of fraud from the last presidential election, it's time for the analysis of brooks and capeheart. "new york times" columnist david brooks and jonathan capeheart, associate editor for "the washington post." with a welcome to you both let's start with this revelation late last night in this court filing in dminvoting lawsuit against fox news showing that fox executives and hosts didn't believe the election lies that they were peddling on television. what do you make of this notion that fox derped that telling the truth and being straight with its viewers was not good for its

bottom line. >> i don't know whether to feel relieved or not that tucker didn't believe what he was saying. maybe he has some core in there that's actually honest. all of us, here in pbs we don't go after profits but at "the new york times" and other news organizations we have two missions. we want to tell the truth and live up to the et ins of our profession, and we also want to attract readers and serve viewers and make money for our company. you know, dealing with that tension is not unique. doctors do it. lawyers do it. but -- so you find a balance. and you try to hue to the code of your profession. and do it the best you can and hope that readers will appreciate that. at fox, that's apparently not how that works. and that the ethos of following the code of honesty, report, telling the truth, which is our own job, our only job is just to tell the truth and not be partisan. that's our job. if you can't do the basic os they have job, pretty soon you lose all moral bearing.

i think not everybody at that agency, a lot of people really left, but a lot of people who used to be friends of mine lost all moral bearing. >> jonathan, this in many ways reaffirm what is critics of fox news have believed all ang that even though it has news in the title that that is a thin veneer at best. >> yeah. very thin. it's more like carpacho if you want to give a culinary analogy. what this dominion paper, the tiling shows is that the big lie is indeed a big lie. and that the people perpetuating it knew it was a lie and yet they still went on air, night after night after night, perpetuating it to the detriment of our country. and yh, they lost their balance, they lost their moral core, if any of them had any. and the idea that tucker carlson says one thing on air and believes something else off

camera is deeply, deeply disturbing. because of what we have seen, that kind of talk that kind of rhetoric, led to. because we have seen a kind of talk and rhetoric that led to january 6th. they were still dealing with people who believed the nonsense that was being spouted on fox news. one other thing that i think david said, but should be pointed out, the reason why there's so much attention on fox news is and just because of they were purveyors of the big high, but because it is the number-one cable channel by multiples. so, majority of people watching cable television are watching fox news. that's what makes what's come out in his dominion papers so incredibly disturbing. >> staying on the topic of false claims of fraud, let's talk about the developments out of this special grand jury in georgia. probing former president donald

trump's election-stealing efforts in that state. there was an excerpt released this past week of the special grand jury's report. as we both know, it recommended indictments of one or more people based on perjury. that was it. that's all we got, david.what's your assessment of the? >> this excerpt is generous. really wasn't much to it. i do think, you know, three investigations we have been following for years, southern district of new york, the justice department and georgia. georgia strikes me as the most real of them. trump really did say, find me those votes. you're not allowed to do that. but we learned how far along. i think we should be worrying, is indicting a sitting president on perjury without the crimes, is that enough? i have to think more about that, but i would have a few doubts about that. it suggests not much to me right now. >> jonathan, today david's point, that is where donald trump faces the most legal exposure, georgia. what did you make of what we

learned or didn't learn this past week? >> well, one, the one big thing -- there are two big things -- the first big thing is you had non-politicians -- not democrats or partisans, not folks like us, saying, there was no election fraud, or even experts saying, no election fraud. what you have had here is a grand jury of everyday people who are presented the evidence, and they made a point of saying, in that document, that we saw no evidence of election fraud, that the election was 100% by the board. you know, which is to blow that up. the other thing is, yeah, saying that there are people who perjured themselves before them and may not know who they are is a big deal. what i want to know is what were the redactions. what

perjury seems to me like is a low bar. i want to know are there bigger charges that were recommended, and how many other shoes are going to drop down the road when, say, a fulton county da like funny willis decides to indict people. we don't know what's coming. i think we should have, you know, sort of a healthy weight and see the wheels of -- legal wheels -- grind slowly, but they grind. i'm looking forward to what comes next. >> well, the legal wheels might grind slowly, but the political wheels are moving pretty quickly, in terms of the 2024 race. looks like on the republican side, we have a race on our hands. what was your assessment of nikki haley's roll out next week? walter made the four of how haley is making the two cases, the generational case and the electability case for her candidacy. >> and the personality case. she's the nicer one. i guess the sims guy is also very nice. and so, you know, i think people are undercounting her. i think she's a good candidate.

i think that story she tells -- the trump story, in some ways, is a downward slope story. america used to be great. we're not great anymore. her story and tim scott's stores are upward-slump stories. look where we come from? look where we're going. that's who we are as a country. i think that story has implications. she's much more aggressive and uphill in policy than trump. maybe we don't know about desantis in an area where trump is attacking ukraine, as he is in china. that may be worth it. i also think there's a trump lane, for sure. i would put both desantis and trump in it, but there's a lane of pre-trump -- let's see -- trump-affected republicans. but we're still sort of more republicans-led corporations, with foreign policy. that lane, in 2022, did pretty well. you might almost say, there are more people like one like a

republican than donald trump. i maintain the belief that there's another version of that kind of republican. i think she fits pretty well into that, along with a bunch of others. >> jonathan, thinking ahead a little bit. actually, i guess, a lot. how did democrats contend with -- to use the phrase -- a normal republican, if the republican gets the nomination? >> well, the republican has to get the nomination. i think a lot of democrats are not holding their breath that a normal republican is actually going -- is actually going to win. i think that, you know, governor nikki haley, ambassador haley, the problem she has is her flip-flop-flip situation when it comes to supporting and criticizing donald trump. she went to work for him. also, i think she's going to have a problem explaining to the maga base of the party why she took down the confederate flag and her views that she talked about them. i think you played it earlier notice at least i thought i heard it -- senators like tim scott talking very forthright

about issues of race and his place in the party. i think he will stand -- will do much, much better talking about -- and must talk about -- issues of race in the republican party, and he'll be able to do so with a whole more amount of credibility than, say, nikki haley can, simply because, in her kickoff speech, she didn't talk about any of that. she talked about her immigrant story, but she didn't get into any of the disagreement nations -- does, nations or the horrific story about her father and the encounter he had, dissemination he hampered how is she going to talk about that úon the campaign trail? that's what i'm looking forward to. and if those two happy warriors can beat out the angry trump and desantis wing, more power to them, but they still have to face a democratic nominee who i still think is going to be the sitting president, and it's not

going to be a cakewalk for them. >> in the minutes we have left, i would like to have you both reflect on the news this past week of senator john fetterman checking himself into walter reed to receive inpatient treatment for the clinical depression. david, you wrote a piece for "the times" earlier this month about a friend of yours who struggled with mental illness. the headline was how do you serve a friend in despair there was a line in this op-ed you wrote that just hit me in the chest. it's this. i am told that one of the brutalities of the illness is the impossibility of articulating exactly what that pain consists of. tell me more about that. >> yeah. my friend for three years until he lost his life to depression, and i learned to start a little knowledge of how to deal with the. i was like, great life. you have a great family. you love your wife. that's the wrong thing to say. then, i would give him advice on what to do. you know, he was a surgeon. he used to do surgery in

vietnam. that's just saying, i don't understand what you're going through. so, what i eventually learned, and what i hope friends of john fetterman learned is you are not going to talk them out of it. you're just going to walk with them through it. you're just going to be there. you're going to be witness, and they will show you all along the way. you will be there on the other side. that's all you can do for a friend, but it's a great service you can do for a friend. >> jonathan? >> well, one, david, i sent david an email. the moment i finished reading his beautiful and raw piece about his friend, pete, i encouraged everyone to read it. it is vital. i think senator fetterman should be lauded for not only going to proactively seek help, but then making sure that the american people and the people of pennsylvania know about what he's done. i think, down the road, we're going to see that one thing that john -- what senator fetterman -- has done his impact millions of people in a positive way.

>> jonathan and david, have a great weekend, gentlemen. it's great to see you. remember, there is much more online, including the story about a new law in new orleans that requires the city's restaurants to remove soda as a drink option for kids meals. and be sure to tune into washington week tonight for analysis of nikki haley's presidential bid and the rest of the week's political headlines. and watch pbs news week and tomorrow for the latest from ukraine, as the war-torn country prepares to mark the first anniversary of the russian invasion. that is the news hour. have a great weekend. major funding for the pbs news hour has been provided by -- ♪

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this is the museum we have been to here, for the last four years. to plan repairs for very complex heart conditions. we have our patients come in for resolution imaging, and what we end up with is something that looks like this. this patient, we decided not to do repair >> sometimes options are not apparent without a 3-d model, because you don't have that kind of detail to figure it out. >> that's what we have a like this, because they can just kind of advance, figure out the connections. >> we're elevating imaging to its fullest potential, where you're getting the best information possible to get the best outcomes coming out. >> the administration. >> i feel fortunate that i'm here, at ucsf, because few places can push it this far. >> ucsf hospitals, redefining possible.

>> the real problems with policing in america, accordinto a police chief who's trying to solve them this week on "firing line." the real problems with policing in america. according to a police chief who is trying to solve them. úthis week, on "firing line" -- >> there's a lot of hard work ahead with a lot of serious challenges facing the city and this police department. >> ryan o'hara, the first new police chief in minneapolis since the murder of george floyd. a job he says, he knew he was meant to do in his gut. >> i have been uniquely qualified to come here, in this moment. >> after a career in the newark, new jersey police department, where he was in charge of assisting police brutality in civil rights violations, chief o'hara assumes his role at the minneapolis department at a nickel time. with the fatal beating of tyre nichols in this last