geoff: good evening. i'm geoff bennett. amna nawaz is on assignment. on the "newshour" tonight -- another strong jobs report complicates the prospects for more interest rate hikes aimed at stopping rising prices. a new storm brings the potential for life-threatening floodand mudslides in parts of california already hard hit by heavy rain and snow. ukraine burns through an extraordinary amount of ammunition in its fight against russia, creating a major challenge for arms manufacturers. >> what the u.s. has been able to do is use a range of its stockpiles of weapons. the challenge, though, is that a number of those stockpiles are now decreasing.

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♪ >> and friends of the newshour. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. geoff: welcome to the "newshour." the u.s. economy again created more jobs than expected last month -- 311,000. the unemployment rate also ticked up to 3.6%, but that came as the labor force participation rate improved and more than 400,000 workers jumped back into the work force. president biden made note of that after the report came out

this morning. >> the part that pleases me the most about the report, the jobs report, is people who've been staying out of the job market are moving back in, beginning to move back in. jobs are available. people are working again. they're becoming more optimistic about their future. geoff: wage increases slowed down, but job growth remains strong overall. julia coronado is the president and founder of the firm, macorpolicy perspectives. she's a former economist for the federal reserve and a professor at the university of texas, austin. thank you for being with us. julia: my pleasure. geoff: we have a strong jobs report for february. the u.s. added 311,000 jobs last month. president biden said our economy is moving in the right direction. is that the entire story? julia: well, the report is a little bit of a goldilocks report. as you mentioned, very strong job gains, stronger than expected but not a lot of signs

of inflation pressures from those jobs in part because we did see participation rise. we know some good things are happening on the supply side of the labor market. immigration flows have improved. we're working through backlogs of visas and bringing people inn. and people are returning to the labor force. that is bringing supply and demand into better balance, and therefore, wage growth did ease back a little bit. and further federal reserve, that is certainly what they are looking for in determining how fast and how high to take interest rates. geoff: a question about that because the u.s. economy, looking back at the last three jobs reports, has averaged 350,000 jobs a month for the last three months. good news for the economy, great news for americans, but that can be read potentially as bad news for the fed which is trying to tame inflation. or is it bad news? >> it could be potentially but you look over the same three

months, the unemployment rate, first it ticked down and then back up. so we have been basically steady at 3.6% unemployment rate over that same period. that is a low unemployment rate. we are not quite at the 50 year low as we were last month. we are not seeing -- because there is better supply of workers, more workers returning to the workforce, better population growth dynamics from immigration, that means those demand for workers are being met without tightening the labor market further. so, it is a delicate balance. by any metric, it is a strong job market which is good for the economy but we are at a high rate of inflation that the fed wants to bring down. they would like to see further cooling in the job market which this report is not a cooling outright but it is sort of a very healthy balance of strong

jobs, but also strong engagement to meet those jobs. geoff: i want to ask about what happened today with financial regulators closing silicon valley bank. it is a major winter to startups. it is the largest u.s. bank failure since the financial crisis more than a decade ago. what contruted to that collapse and how is it connected, if at all, to the broader economy? julia: there were some circumstances for this bank which was focused on serving the tech sector which we know is having a hard time right now. it is the sector that is probably contracting the most. they had exposure to that , generally of the impact of higher interest rates on the banking system. higher interest rates are -- it does bring pressures on the bank's portfolio. what that produced in this case was a run on deposits.

and so, it's both a unique situation but also one that does highlight that higher interest rates over time constrain the financial sector, constrain credit availability and this was a particularly adverse event. we saw in the markets, we saw contagion to the broader banking sector and broader stock market because there is pain to come in the financial sector. the financial sector is adjusting to the reality of higher interest rates. geoff: i had to brace myself when you used the word contagion, because how concerned should we be about the ripple effect and about the overall health of the banking sector? julia: i think the biggest concern of the banking sector is not sort of the big banks that are in very good shape, well capitazed, lots of liquidity. it is the smaller banks like this bank and other midsized, smaller banks that really do

rely on deposits as their funding base. and if deposits turn out to be a little bit more skittish, a little bit more prone to flight, then they are going to have to manage their risks and manage their liabilities very carefully. so, i think the vulnerabilities inhe banking sector really lie amongst of the smaller and midsized banks. and there is concern. there is some concern that rates have gone up so far, so fast, that it is a shock to the system that might ripple into other, again, midsized banking institutions. geoff: julia with macro policy perspectives. a real pleasure to speak with you. julia: my pleasure. ♪ geoff: in the day's other headlines, california took

another hit from the heavens as a so-called atmospheric river brought torrents of rain and more snow. stephanie sy reports it's adding to the state's weather woes after a series of extreme storms. stephanie: hours of rain since last night have caused overflowing waterways to wash out roads. the downpours have filled freeways around the san francisco bay area. and, 34 counties across the state are now under a state of emergency. piles of mud still line the streets of this neighborhood in felton. it's been battered repeatedly by storms since the start of the year. >> i'm past the burnout part and i'm in the acceptance part. stephanie: tom fredericks had just gotten through cleaning up from the last series of storms. >> we've been working every week, every week when we can since then. and it's just starting right now to feel like it was before the storms. so, this is kind of discouraging to be facing it all over again. stephanie: in southern california, ere are concerns

new rain could melt tons of snow from previous winter storms and trigger catastrophic flooding. and evacuation warnings have been issued, including in merced county, in the central part of the state just two weeks ago, pele had to be rescued there. >> i don't wanna go through this again. after being rescued at 1:30 in the morning on a flatbed trailer with a backhoe pushing cars out of the way. yeah, we're not going through that again, so we'll be leaving early if it is gonna look bad. stephanie: in parts of the sta with massive snow accumulations, the risk of roof collapses is rising as up to eight feet of new snow is predicted in high elevations. kim george is the battalion chief for the south lake tahoe fire department. >> some of these shaded neighborhoods have probably eight to 10 feet in the city and the county areas even more so. with all the snow load and all the weight that's sitting on roofs, we have significant concern about roof snow load with the rain.

>> i think this is day 15. essentially, we've been working 24/7 with all hands on deck. stephanie: craig griesbach is director of ergency services for nevada county, california, where new weather alerts are now up. >> we have a very old, older demographic. so there's definitely an area of need here, more than more than other places. so that goes to mail, pretty much anything of daily service has been hampered, including trash service as well. stephanie: meanwhile, yosemite national park in the sierra nevada mountains will remain closed through next thursday. over the past two weeks, parts of the iconic park were buried 15 feet deep in snow. for the "pbs newshour," i'm stephanie sy. geoff: forecasters are calling for yet another major storm in california early next week. former president trump now has a decision to make whether to appear before a grand jury in new york next week. the focus would be his alleged role in hush money payments to an adult film actress during the

2016 presidential campaign. manhattan's district attorney has offered mr. trump the chance to testify in what could be a precursor to criminal charges. iran and saudi arabia agreed today to restore diplomatic relations in a deal brokered by china. the persian gulf powers broke ties in 2016 and have competed in proxy conflicts in yemen and elsewhere. iran's top security offical -- official welcomed the news. >> at the end of the talks, we reached a conclusion to start a new chapter after seven years of breaking off relations. we hope this new chapter will compensate for the stagnation of relations and lead to stability and security in the region. geoff: the agreement marked a major diplomatic moment for china. in washington, the white house said it welcomes any deal that could end the war in yemen and reduce regional tensions. china's president xi jinping was awarded a third five-year term

today, putting him on the road to staying in power for life. xi won a unanimous endorsement from the ceremonial national people's congress. he'd already secured five more years as head of the chinese communist party. much of ukraine had electrical power restored today after a major russian missile barrage on thursday. and in kyiv, president zelenskyy attended the funeral of a well-known fighter and commander. he died in the battle that's raging around bakhmut in eastern ukraine. police in hamburg, germany are still searching for a motive after a gunman killed six people and himself at a jehovah's witness hall. eight others were wounded in the attack lt ght, including a pregnant woman who miscarried after being shot. the killings stunned the neighborhood, and people today left flowers and lit candles, paying their respects to the victims. >> it is important to me because this is on my way to work. i always pass by here and i enjoy it. and so i thought i'd express my symphy by laying flowers here. i love hamburg and then, when

something like this happens, you are really quite disturbed. geoff: the gunman was a former member of the jehovah's witness congregation that he attacked. police said they recently received a tip that he was angry at the group and might be unfit to own a gun. back in this country, reports of sexual assaults shot up last year at u.s. military academies. the peagon says a survey found an 18% increase over the previous year. that includes one in five female students who said they'd been subjected to unwanted sexual contact. the naval academy alone had nearly double the number of reports from the year before. some of the most conservative house republicans spelled out their demands today in the impasse over raising the national debt ceiling. the house freedom caucus called for cutting spending by $130 billion, reversing student debt relief and freezing most agency budgets for 10 years. members dismissed president biden's new budget and he

rejected their demands in statements. >> members of the house freedom caucus who have never contually voted for debt ceiling increases will support a solution to responsibly address the impending debt ceiling crisis. simply put, the plan is to shrink washington and grow america. >> members of the house caucus will consider voting to raise the debt ceiling contingent on the enactment of legislation. do you know what the essence of the enactment of legislation is? cut all spending other than defense by 25%. 25% across the board. geoff: house republican leaders have not indicated if they support the freedom caucus plan. the house of representatives voted unanimously today to declassify u.s. intelligence on the origins of covid-19. democrats and republicans joined in pressing for answers on how the virus started and whether it could have escaped from a chinese la the bill now goes to president biden, but there's no word on whether he'll sign it. and on wall street, stocks retreated again in the face of

interest rate fears. the dow jones industrial average lost 345 points, 1%, to close at 31,909. the nasdaq fell nearly 1.8%. the s&p 500 slipped 1.5%, finishing its worst week since september. still to come on the "newshour," arms manufacturers struggle to produce enough ammunition for ukraine's battle against russia. former arkansas governor asa hutchinson discusses his potential bid for the white house. and david brooks and jonathan capehart weigh in on the week's political headlines. ♪ >> this is the pbs newshour from weta studios in washington, and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. geoff: since the start of russia's full-scale invasion, the united states and its allies have supplied ukraine with tens of billions of dollars of

weapons systems and ammunition. but keeping the material flowing for the largest conflict since the second world war is proving a challenge for arms manufacturers. nick schifrin has the story. nick: the poets call war the ultimate of man. it has been eight years since a wart of logistics on this industrial scale. ukraine fires as many as 155 milimeter rounds in five days as the u.s. produces in a month. many of them are forged, finished at 1500 degrees, and painted here in scranton, pennsylvania. the machinery is decades-old, but until now, it has suited u.s. needs. iraq andfghanistan were not duelg artillery battles. but today, the 20,000 artillery shells the plant creates every 30 days is a fraction of ukraine's needs. ukraine's defense minister

recently wrote to the european union in a letter described to pbs newshour that ukraine can only fire 1/5 of what it could because of munition shortages. we saw that ourselves on the outskirts of eastern ukraine. this team told us they did not have enough artillery to fire constantly. he commands an artillery unit. you have what you need in order to complete this fight? >> we do have equipment but we need more and we need more and more and more because they won't stop until we stop them. >> the current rate of ukraine's ammunition makes miniature is many times higher than our current rate of production. nick: last month, the nato secretary-general said defense industry cannot deliver fast enough and had to expand quickly. >> this is not becoming a grinding war of attrition and it is a war of logistics. >> the u.s.'s defense industrial

base is not fully prepared to conduct an industrial style war or to deter that kind of war. nick: seth jones from the center for strategic and international studies recently wrote a report bout a shortage of material, empty bins in a wartime environment. the u.s. has had operational plans for major war but what hasn't happened is to tie those plans directly to acquisitions needs right now. nick: the u.s. has sent from its stockpiles more than $32 billion worth of weapons, including more than one million 155-millimeters shells, 1600 shoulder fi stinger antiaircraft missiles, 8500 javelin antitank weapons, 1800 phoenix ghost drums, and 38 high mility rocket systems. >> what the u.s. has been able to do is use a range of stockpiles of weapons.

the challenge is a number of those stockpiles are now decreasing and the production lines are not rising to levels that we need them for future contingency. nick: it is not only about ukraine. the plans for contingencies include a war in the pacific with china now the defense department is spending billions to increase production, including modernizing the scranton plant, as seen in these before and after photos. production has already increased over 50%. the army hopes to increase artillery produion 500% in the next two years. the largt production expansion since the korean war. bill leplante is the under secretary of defense. i asked him whether the west could meet ukraine's needs for artillery. >> we have been doing our best to meet the demand as it comes in. the devils in the details as to

which caliber. the 155 millimeter, we have already funded the factory at significant amounts to get that production rate hopefully at five times that amount which is almost unprecedented. and it's not just producing, but what we're also buying and getting from around the world in different stocks to supply what the ukrainians need. every day, we try to move something to the left, whether it's finding equipment in another country we can ship in or anything we can do to find stocks. nick: as we just saw, ukrainian soldiers just a few weeks ago outside of bakhmut told me they didn't have enough. that was an artillery piece, an older artillery, soviet era. i was with another mortar unit. they said they didn't have enough mortars, also firing soviet-era mortars. this isn't only about american european weapons. it's also about getting ukraine oldeweapons, which many other units still use. right? >> that's exactly right. it's a constant challenge of do we find or produce the old soviet or russian equipment or do we give them the new equipment? we go through that every day. nick: but on air defense specifically, i' been told they're running out of parts

and weapons all over the world. and so therefore, they have to go to west. >> i think for air defenses and frankly, for ground forces, what you're seeing is having to go from the old soviet systems to almost certainly western systems for the reasons you said. nick: and this is all, of course, before we get to ukraine spring offensive. you are trying to figure out how to get all these armored vehicles and their parts into ukraine. how do you know that they'll have enough of those munitions, those parts, those modern weapons, to be able to launch some kind of counter offensive in the coming weeks? >> what we're doing is working with the germans, the poles and the other countries. when we have a shortfall in parts, say, for a certain version of leopards to scour and find those parts, even to the extent we can find advanced manufacturing of 3d print. so we're working on each one. and the idea is to make sure that there are enough parts to sustain for each model. nick: why not give ukraine the longer-range weapon known as the atacm, which would fly 180 miles that it's been requesting? that so far the administration has refused. >> yeah, it's been a policy decision today to date that the long range weapons which we have been providing, which is about an 80-kilometer precision guided

weapon, is sufficient in range for the targets that they have. i think for when you get into types of capabilities are well beyond it, you get into pocy issues and sustainment issues of whether or not it's an escalatory thing. nick: if i could, though, intelligence officials tell me that specifically the capacity of the atacm and the range of the atacm is a red line for the kremlin in terms of what ukraine would be able to hit if it were to use that weapon in russia. but why is that a concern, given that ukraine has promised not to use american weapons inside russia? >> well, i think it's one of the concerns. i think there's multiple concerns. and the other piece of it is what to what extent it will make a big difference in the battle. and those are all part of the calculation. nick: tohat end are you trying to procure weapons for ukraine to re-seize all of its territory that it has lost since 2014? >> we're providing everything we can that we believe they need. and i would say this, we are going to be there with them until it's over and as long as we need to, and not for the least of which is if we think

it's expensive now, if putin prevails, it'll be really expensive. and so this is really that important. and we're going to provide the equipment they need. nick: ukraine argues it won't be over until it re-seizes crimea. >> and that that may be their view. nick: and that's ukraine's choice, basically. >> this is their fight. this is their fight. nick: you heard seth jones in the package there saying that as stockpiles in the u.s. are being drawn down, production lines aren't expanding enough to meet future requirements. do you agree, and if so, why? >> i tnk that that's a subjective comment. i actually don't necessarily agree. we're going across the board and putting billions of dollars in investment across across and these companies. and it's going to be rapidly ramping up. and so really what's at stake here is a time issue. it's we will ramp up. and we are ramping up right now. and the question is arguably is racing against time. and that's where that's where we are. nick: how does that translate, though, into actual deliveries? how long does that take?

>> right. this gets to something called the long lead item, how long it takes before you get the item, when you actually award it. and so, what that can be as long as a year. but it's every day we have teams working on this, scouring the earth. nick: and finally, how do you prioritize orders, especially moving forward? you've argued that the weapons going to ukraine do not affect some of the weapons orders, for example, that taiwan is making. but the fact is the u.s. is behind on some of the orders it has promised to taiwan. so what is that priority? and does one theater affect the other? >> it can affect. but, you know, there's there's less overlap, perhaps some people believe. i'll give you the example for taiwan. there is a backlog for taiwan. it happens to be on items like f-16 and production of f-16. that's a lot of it, which to date, even though there's been discussions, hasn't been a player in the ukraine. where i will say that there is something that we all have to watch is the underlying suppliers, the spliers of solid rocket motors, of batteries, of energetics there. those are common across all

domains. and that's where we've also been putting our emphasis. nick: and what message does your struggles to deal with the procurement challenges right now and also what you're doing to overcome them -- what message does that send to china when it comes to taiwan? >> i'd like to think that what we show china is, number one, we can rn fast. we can turn fast. we are getting folks under contract within a week and we are getting things put together and into theater that are incredibly innovative, very, very fast. we will follow up and make sure our industrial base is ready to go. and so i've often said that industrial capacity is itself a deterrent. and so i think we have to remind ourselves that as we look not just to china, but what's beyond ukraine. nick: bill plante, undersecretary of defense, thanks very much. >> thank you, nick. ♪ geoff: the 2024 republican presidential primary is already heating up in early voting

states. prospective candidate ron desantis traveled to iowa for the first time today. and declared candidate nikki haley also met voters across the hawkeye state this week. among those considering bids for presidency is former arkansas governor asa hutchinson. amna spoke with him earlier today. amna: governor asa hutchinson, welcome back to the "newshour." thanks for being with us. let's start with the most important question. have you decided if you're going run or not? >> right now, i'm concentrating this month and going to different states, listening to voters and really concentrating on a good, consistent conservative message that i practice as governor, and throughout my public career. april is an important time for decision making and y announcement at that time, and so stay tuned. but right now, we're really focusing on what's important for our country and the direction that we go. i think my message is important. i' been encouraged by the response that i've received thus far.

amna: we will indeed stay tuned. it is very early, we should say but so far, there are two clear front runners. former president trump and florida governor ron desantis, who are very much in the same lane, i think it's fair to say, appealing to the same kinds of voters and base republican voters. what do you see as your potential lane? who are your potential voters? >> well, it's people that also were in that lane in terms of believing in changes that we need in government, a conservative position, fighting out against the progressive agenda. so, those voters are very important for anybody who runs but we also need to broaden the base and it's important that we nominate a candidate that can appeal to independent voters and suburban voters and when in november. we should be tired of losing as we did not win as we should have in the last cycle. and so that message of a consistent conservative that can

broaden the base is really important for our party. and i think that is the kind of candidate that people are looking for that can win in a november election, and that can broan our base. amna: you've made clear that you don't believe the former president trump should be that nominee, but you've also expressed concern about his message of vengeance, as he put it, if he is not the nominee. are you worried about him running as a third-party candidate or trying to seek revenge on the republican party in some way? >> well, the reason i say that we should not have somebody who's a president of the united states who is interested in revenge is that we have very serious times and these serious times calls for problem solvers. that is the kind of leadership that i think is needed. whenever you look at the threat of a third party candidacy, i think that's the reason that rhonda mcdaniel, head of the republican national committee, wants everybody who participates the debate on the gop side to sign a loyalty oath.

well, i don't think we need a loyalty oath. but i think it is important to say, if we're going to participate in a republican debate, we're not going to run as a third-party candidate. and i think that's important for president trump and any ndidate to say if they're going to participate in that republican nominating process. amna: nikki haley is, you know, who has announced her candidacy was today calling for raising the retirement age for americans currently in their 20's and limiting social security benefits for wealthier americans. as you know, there have been a number of proposals for how to address the coming crisis and social security across the aisle. senators warren and sanders have said they can increase taxes on the wealthiest americans and shore up social security. i'm curious what are your thoughts on this? what are you proposing as a fix for social security? >> we need to protect social security for our retirees who paid into it. they've earned that payment in termof the latter years of their life. and so that's important that we keep it sound and full of

integrity, and then we don't start chopping it up. when you look at the long-term concerns, we have to bring in more workers, we've got to be able to make some changes, but it shouldn't be lowering the retirement age for all of the workers because you think about the difference between somebody like me who's worked at a white collar job. i've been a lawyer, i've been in public service, versus somebody who's worked in a factory. i don't think that lifting their retirement age, whenever their body can wear out on some of those tough manual labor jobs is the right way. amna: i want to ask you about some news out of arkansas this week. the state senate there they have just passed what critics are calling the most extreme so called bathroom bill that's targeting transgender people. it would essentially criminalize, say a transgender parent taking their child into a public restroom.

would you support a bill like that? >> i haven't read that bill. but i did, make sure that whenever i was governor, we tried to have the right balance of giving people flexibility in their life, not overly mandating from the state perspective and recognizing the griddle role in terms of raising kids and the influence that they have over there. i do have hesitation about the criminal aspect of some of these penalties. but again, i have not read that specific bill. amna: there has been over 150 similar bills from republican legislatures targeting transgender people. we know that kind of rhetoric leads to real-world violence, can create mental health and emotional problems for trans youth. y is this particular issue such a priority for republicans right now? >> well, there's a great deal of concern about the children and

their safety and their protection and in the schools and their influence, and you do have concerns about the influence of whether they're encouraged to move at that very young age and to consider a transgender change. this is a really extraordinary time that we're going through that we're still learning more about science and more about why there's been such an increase in transgenderism across america. and so i think there's a pause button and people are trying to set and trying to draw the right lines and so that's the reason for the debate is simply trying to protect the knowledge of parents, for example, you know, if a child says that he wants to change his gender, should a parent know about that? absolutely. there should be that communication. and so i think that's why this is being looked at by

legislators. amna: though you mentioned that the aim is to protect children, you know, as well as i do. the leading cause of death children in america right now is gun violence. and we don't see any republican-led action on that. >> well, we believe in the responsibility of gun owners, we believe in the responsibility of law enforcement to enforce the law. and whenever you look at our second amendment privileges, correct. republicans are not passing laws further restricting the rights under our constitution, but we certainly are concerned about violence in our society and whether that is coming from the inner cities and prosecutors that don't believe in in upholding the law or judges that are releasing defendants on no bond, whenever they've got a series of criminal offenses in the past. absolutely. these are serious concerns for legislators to address those crime issues. and particularly in our inner cities where we don't have been

good enforcement of the law, that needs to change. amna: former arkansas governor asa hutchinson, we will be following you as you're making a decision on whether or not to run. please do come back when you've made that decision. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. good to be with you. ♪ geoff: court watchers anticipate charges against former president trump. president biden previews his 2024 re-election platform in dollars and cents. and fox fights a legal battle over lies about the 2020 election. at the end of this week full of political developments, it's time for the analysis of brooks and capehart. that's "new york times" columnist david brooks, and jonathan capehart, associate editor for "the washington post." welcome to you both on this friday evening. jonathan, we will start with you. we heard from arkansas governor a sitasa hutchinson.

amna talk to him about gun violence, social security solvency, trans issues. what did you make of the solutions he offered? jonathan: let's start with crime because that really piqued interest because he went immediately to violent crime in the inner cities. it may be think of a study from third way, the democratic leaning think tank in washington that put out a report last march, almost a year ago that showed the top 10 homicide rates in the u.s., eight of the 10 states with the highest homicide rates per capita in 2020 were states that voted for donald trump. the number nine state is arkansas with 10.3 murders per capita. the ninth-most homicides in the country. so, my question for the governor would be why is that so high in your state? what did you do when it came to that kind of crime?

especially if they were crimes that were committed with guns. what are you doing to be a part of the solution? when it comes to social security, that nikki haley proposal that amna pointed out is an interesting idea, because it is not about the retirees -- geoff: raising the age. jonathan: yeah, raising the retirement age, but if i heard amna correctly, folks in their 20's now. i didn't hear a direct response to that. i think that will be the challenge for the former governor. geoff: david, i want to get your reaction. as this republican field fills out -- you've got chris sununu, asa hutchinson weighing their options, chris scott, former vice president mike pence. it was positioned to be the moderate "normie" republican candidate moving forward? david: this is a season where a lot of governors are reaching out to journalists so i spend a lot of time around governors all of a sudden.

my sense is the republicans have a strong -- it is like a major league baseball organization with a great minor leagues and a pitcher who cannot throw a pitch, and that pitcher is donald trump. underneath, there's a lot of talent in the party. when you talk to the governors -- governor kemp, governor sununu, governor youngkin -- one of the things they point to is that people are moving to red states. they are moving out of blue states and into red states. why? their claim is people like the quality of life. they like the tax structure, they like the schools. so, florida, georgia, texas, a lot of people are moving to these places. these governors are not focusing on some of the culture war issues, except for desantis. they are not making trans the center of whatever they want to do. they are talking about crimes, streets, schools. the normal things that

governance is all about. i do think there is a lane for somebody that will focus on quality of life. if i had to pick out one person now, i would say chris sununu of new hampshire. that is mostly because he's a warm, friendly, natural, good guy that people like. won a very impressive reelection victory in new hampshire. somehow, he leaks out to me as someone with polital skill. so, if there's going to be a normie for someone who focuses on quality of life, governor sununu seems to me as a potential as that person. geoff: florida governor ron desantis has reportedly indicated to folks privately he intends to run. he is in iowa today, going to nevada tomorrow. there are democrats who say a desantis presidency could potentially be more troubling than a secd trump term. in ron desantis, you have a harvard and yell educated lawyer. someone who really believes in

the culture wars in which he is engaged. and someone who fundamentally understands how the levers of power work and how to use them. where do you come down on that? jonathan: that is exactly where i come down. i have been saying, particular to the young people i talked to who are so focused on donald trump and whether he could win reeltion to the white house in 2024, and said forget about donald trump. focus on the entire field because it is about trumpism. i was speaking specifically about governor desantis because he is trump, but with an ivy league pedigree who has been a governor, who knows how the levers of power work and knows how to work them. let's not forget, the big red wave everyone was talking about that was supposed to suite congress didn't happen -- sweep congress didn't happen federally, but it happened in florida. governor desantis won by a big margin. that is what makes governor desantis so dangerous.

i noticed david did not mention him when he was rattling off all the normies. he did not mention him because of what david mentioned, governor desantis is so focused on the culture wars. that is why he's coming in second to donald trump. but, let's not forget, this is the final reason why he is dangerous. the culture wars stuff works, because it is emotional. that is what i think -- the entire nation has to keep its eyes on that. geoff: the other big story this week was the new york times, first reporting the manhattan prosecutors have invited former president donald trump to appear before a grand jury investigating his alleged role in hush money payments and an alleged cover up. what are the political implications, if he's the first president ever to be indicted? add to that, while he is running for office? david: i had a profound thought earlier today that being

indicted is not good for your political career. it reminds people of stormy daniels, that whole mess. it cannot be good. i don't think the new york case is where i will keep my focus. i just think to lift this hush money payment to the level of a felony strikes me, and from what i've read, strikes a lot of people as a bit of a stretch. to me, the georgia case is the real case. trying to corrupt an election process is something anyone can understand. that strikes me as felony-like. i'm struck even talking to republicans over the last six months how much january 6 has had an accumulative power on their minds. there are some people for whom it was fine, it was a peaceful walk in the park, like tucker carlson said. now that they have candidates in front of them, they are thinking that is horrible. and that was a menace. now all the other republican candidates aside from donald trump and maybe desantis are

beginning to use january 6 as a way to distinguish themselves from trump. i think that georgia cases the indictment i would look for. geoff: how what an indictment -- we don't know it will end in any charge but how would that affect donald trump's standing? he h someone who invested a lot of time and energy in sewing distrust about the institutions that seek to hold him to account. when he was at cpac this pa weekend, he told his supporters, they are not coming after me, they are coming after you. that would have, could have a rallying affect? jonathan: sure. it would have no impact on his standing. meaning he will not lose support. his supporters are there. they are his bedrock, 28%, 30%. i think the other reason why i don't see any change to his political standing is because in order for him to have some sort of change in his standing, that would require for him to have some sense of shame. and we know after four years in

his run for president and his four years in the white house, he has no shame. of course, he would stay in the race if he gets indicted. of course, he would walk the gauntlet of news cameras, outside a court room in new york city while he is supposed to be running for president because in the end, it is to his benefit. meanwhile, going through all of that does nothing for the republican party, does nothing for the political discourse, and does nothing for our democracy. geoff: governor chris sununu, david, had a chance to interview him. he says he is not concerned about the number of republicans who decide to run in this race. the question is about if there are too many republicans in the field, does that benefit donald trump? he said the republicans have to know when to get out. how does that strike you? david: it is a lot harder in practice. if you are running for president, you are raising a ton of money.

you build up these were chests and a couple of weeks go by, it does not look good. do you want to look at your donors and say, sorry, you wasted your money. you are not allowed to give the money back and you are supposed to spend it that election cycle. it is hard to withdraw because you have that pot of money. the and stink is to stay in -- instinct is to stay in. because it is structurally hard to get out because of this fundraising reason, a lot of them will face the temptation to stay in longer than they should. that will split the field. i think it is a real problem for anyone who does not want donald trump to be their nominee. geoff: david brooks and jonathan capehart, appreciate you both. have a good weekend. we'll be back shortly, but first take a moment to hear from your local pbs station. it's a chance to offer your support, which helps keep programs like ours on the air. ♪

geoff: for those staying with us, millions of americans live in rural or under-served areas known as care deserts, where there are few medical care facilities andew doctors with specialized expertise. in this encore report, fred de sam lazaro looks at how one doctor in new mexico is trying to help change that. >> just relax. now take a deep breath. fred: it was cases like this one that inspired gastroenterologist sanjeev arora's idea. >> you know, your liver really feels good. fred: 58-year-old rort subia contracted hepatitis c, a viral liver infection from a blood transfusion decades ago. >> hello, mr. robert, how are you? fred: regular appointments and scans of his liver are critical to his recovery, which appears to be going well. >> wow, this is amazing results. fred: robert subia has the strong support of his wife florence and he's lucky in another way.

they live close this albuquerque center. about a third of new mexico's residents live in its vast rural areas, where a trip to get specialized medical care can often mean a day-long journey or even overnight. that's not affordable for a lot of people in a region with one of the highest rates of poverty in the united states. it was one case in particular that haunted dr. arora. a single mother with two young children whose home was a five-hour drive from his clinic. >> she had cancer of the liver and she passed away six months later, leaving these two children. i was asking myself, why did she die? and the answer was she died because the right knowledge didn't exist at the right place at the right time. and this was not an isolated case. fred: at the time, amid a hep-c epidemic, dr. arora was one of very few specialists treating it. his appointment calendar stretched out eight months.

>> you had just started talking about it, and i'd love to hear more. fred: that's when hsays the idea came to him to "democratize that knowledge." have specialists, using technology, share their expertise with rural providers so they could treat their patients much closer to home. he dubbed it project echo, extension for community healthcare outcomes. >> i don'like people to exercise when they're feeling really tired. fred: his vision is to move beyond the model of one doctor. in this case, a specialist in an urban medical center working with one patient. >> to see somebody in a rural area, they see one less patient inhe urban area, the total number of patients doesn't go up. we need an exponential improvement in capacity to deliver best practice. that is where something like echo comes in, where we multiply expertise. >> it really helps sort of level the playing field, i think, in medicine. fred: dr. alithea gabrellas practices at the gallup indian

medical center, about a two-hour drive from albuquerque. >> we were able to treat aot of people that had been waiting years to be able to access treatment, and we were able to cure a lot of patients. i had the same knowledge, as you know, a high level hepatologist at the university of mexico to be able to bring that new resource to my patients. fred: is it safe to say it's literally saved lives of your patients? >> absolutely. fred: echo uses a hub and spoke design to connect a team of specialists, the hub, to multiple participants in the spokes via zoom during regularly-scheduled sessions that include discussions on specific cases and mentorship. >> this man has one of the most complex cases of multidrug resistance. fred: dr. gabrellas, who completed a fellowship in infectious disease, credits echo for keeping her up to date on how to treat a wide variety of challenging conditions, like that of 27-year-old dana quintero. >> i ended up, you know, being

i think, icu, for a whole week, i think. that's when dr. gabllas walked into a room and she was like you have an infection, its called a strep. >> even though this was a fairly serious infectious disease, i felt, you know, 100% confident doing that kind of care here, because i have instant access to those academic medical centers through echo. fred: since its creation nearly 20 years ago, project echo's presence has multiplied across the globe. there are now 792 hubs operating in 69 countries, focusing on dozens of specialties. it is supported entirely by grants from government and private sources. >> one of the first places project echo expanded was in dr. arora's native india, a country with myriad public health challenges which have taken a backseat during covid. among the campaigns using the echo platform is the fight against tuberculosis, which has surged in recent times.

fred: the government has pledged to eliminate tb by 2025 and dr. kamal chopra at the new delhi tuberculosis center says the echo model will be key. >> it speeds up our reach to the community. by this echo platform at our national level, attendance goes up to 800. fred: 800 in a single meeting. >> yes, in a single meeting. fred: in central delhi, neera and preeti are among hundreds of volunteers who visit patients in their homes. recovered from tb themselves, they say they use their echo training to help patients mage their medication and watch other family members who may be vulnerable. >> we tell them not to ignore even trivial symptoms, fever or cold. they need to go in and consult with a doctor immediately and get a diagnosis or get medicine. also, those people who have hiv or diabetes are more likely to get tb because their bodies have been weakened. >> this democratization of best practices is not a healthcare issue alone.

fred: dr. arora is now trying to expand echo into education. >> when i look at my ownife, what made the huge difference to make me who i am today, it was education. and i really would like to give that opportunity to every child. we have the technology backbone, we have the model. fred: so far, they've started eight education echo programs with some 3000 participating k-12 teachers from across the state of new mexico. for the "pbs newshour," i'm fred de sam lazaro in new mexico. geoff: fred's reporting is in partnership with the undertold stories project of the university of st. thomas in minnesota. ♪ remember, there is much more on our website, including a story about a man who was recently honored for donating more than 50 gallons of blood over the past 30-plus years.

that is that pbs.org/newshour. be sure to tune into "washington week" later tonight here on pbs where our very own amna nawaz will be speaking with a panel of journalists about the week's political news. and ahead of the oscars, watch pbs news weekend for a conversation about women in the film industry, including why none were nominated this year for best director. >> i think that there's such a difference between a trend and sustainable change. as long as we're still at a precarious point where, year to year, the fortunes of women can swing from two in a race to zero in a race, you're not solidly achieving, sort of, a pipeline of systemic equity. geoff: watch that full interview tomorrow on pbs news weekend. and that is the "newshour." i'm geoff bennett. on behalf of the entire "newshour" team, thank you for joining us. have a great weekend. >> major funding for the pbs

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