>> good evening. on the newshour tonight, the president of taiwan meets house speaker kevin mccarthy amid rising tensions between the u.s. and china. former president donald trump remains defiant after being charged with multiple felonies. the political reaction to the case risks further dividing the country. however people communities are using a fast acting overdosed treatment than the daunting predicates opioid addiction. >> those few minutes are really impoant and it's even more critical where it's not just a few minutes until first responders arrive.

>> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. and friends of the newshour including leonard and norma and patricia ewing. >> it was like an aha moment. this is what i love doing. >> companies have this energy that energizes me. these are people who are trying to change the world. when i volunteer with women entrepreneurs, it is the same thing. i'm helping people reach their dreams. i am thriving by helping others every day. people who know know bdo. >> the william and flora hewlett foundation. for more than 50rsin yg, ea invastitutions to promote a betr

world. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. ♪ this program was made and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. geoff: good evening and welcome to the newshour. it has happened again. a tornado killed at least five people today in southeastern missouri. it was the second round of deadly storms to strike that part of the country in less than

a week. gabrielle haze is in st. louis and files this report. gabrielle: daybreak brought the destruction into full view. this storm ravaged the areas of marble hill and glenallen about two hours south of st. louis. officials say the twister touched down for roughly 15 minutes. search operations got underway with more thanag0 cienes including the sand with fire department. crews went door-to-door, checking for victims and survivors, at times cutting back toppled trees just to access them. the storm was part of the latest weather system to wreak havoc throughout the u.s. heartland. >> oh my god. gabrielle: on tuesday, eyewitness radio in iowa captured a funnel cloud, whipping into rope-like formations. >> oh my god.

gabrielle: in illinois, asts of lightning and intense winds causing damage to cars, homes and power lines. it all came just days after tornadoes struck little rock, arkansas, and elsewhere, killing 32 pple. for the pbs newshou i am gabrielle hays in st. louis. geoff: all told, some 40 million people were under the threat of severe storms today, across a swath of states. former vice president mike pence will testify after all in the justice department's january 6 investigation. a spokesman said today that he will not appeal a federal judge's order to comply with a subpoena. lawyers for former president trump had argued that the subpoena violates executive privilege. in the middle east, there are reportedly new clashes this evening at the al-aqsa mosque in jerusalem. that follows last night's violence when israeli police said palestinians refused to leave after evening prayers. police video showed officers storming the compound as pastinians threw fireworks.

the palestinians said a number of people were beaten by the police. in response, militants in gaza fired rockets -- and the israelis launched air strikes. there were no reports of casualties. they reached a settlement back in 2017 a baptist church service in sutherland springs outside san antonio. he killed 26 people including a pregnant woman, and wounded 20 two others. the u.s. air force was found never reported that the shooter had been court-martialed for assault. that would havbarred him from buying a gun. progressive democrats are celebrating victories in two key elections. in chicago, brandon johnson won a tuesday run-off to be the next mayor. he was backed by the city's teachers union. and in wisconsin, voters elected janet to the state supreme court. that gives it a liberal majority ahead of key rulings on abortion

access and voting rights. >> our state is taking a step forward to a better and brighter future where our rights and freedoms will be protected. and while there is still work to be done, tonight we celebrate this historic victory that has obviously reignited hope in so many of us. gabrielle: -- geoff: in denver, two relatively moderate candidates led a crowded field in the mayor's race, with votes still being counted. a state report in maryland concludes more than 150 catholic priests and others sexually abused some 600 children, over a span of 80 years. the state attorney general said today a nearly four-year investigion found "pervasive, pernicious and persistent abuse" that church officials covered up. the archbishop of baltimore apologized and called the accounts shocking. two more states have banned gender-affirming care for minors.

the republican governor of indiana signed a ban today, hours after idaho's republican governor did the same. 13 states now have such laws. and kansas became the 20th state to bar trans athletes from girls' and women's sports after republican lawkers overrode the governor's veto. the "environmental protection agency" announced new limits today on emissionis of mercury and other pollutants from coal-fired power plants. the proposals would reverse a trump-era rollback of standards put in place by president obama. epa says the shift aims to protect children, vulnerable adults, and those living near power plants. and on wall street, stocks struggled after another batch of disappointing data on the economy. the dow jones industrial average gained 80 points to close at 33,482. but the nasdaq fell 9 points, 1%. and the s&p 500 lost 10 points. still to come on the "newshour", the political fallout from the felony charges against former president trump.

thousands of tech leaders and academics call for aause on the rapid development of artificial intelligence. reporters who covered the u.s. invasion of iraq reflect on the war 20 years later. >> this is geoff: for the first time, a taiwanese president has met a speaker of the house on u.s. soil. today's meeting between president tsai ing wen, speaker kevin mccarthy, and more than a dozen lawmakers, took place despite beijing's threats of a serious response. nick schifrin reports. nick: at the reagan library, the second in line to the u.s. presidency, in front of dozens of cameras, initiated the handshake that beijing had tried to block. speaker of the house kevin mccarthy, and taiwanese president tsai ing-wen, met for two hours, with more than a dozen lawmakers of both parties.

>> i'm optimistic that we'll continue to find ways for the people of america and taiwan to work together to promote economic freedom, democracy, peace, and stability in the region. nick: after the meeting, mccarthy and tsai swore solidarity against an unnamed beijing. >> the peace that we have maintained, and the democracy which we have worked hard to build, are facing unprecedented challenges. we once again find ourselves in a world where democracy is under thre. nick: tsai havisited the us 6 -- the u.s. six times previously since becoming president in 2016. the biden administration calls the u.s. visits "transits," between tsai's visits to latin american countries with diplomatic relations with taipei. today, secretary of state antony blinken urged china not to overreact. >> beijing should not use the transits as an excuse to take any actions to ratchet up

tensions. nick: but 6500 miles away, beijing has hinted at a military response. and after exercises last weekend, today, taiwan said china sailed an aircraft carrier group off taiwan's southeast coast. before the meeting, beijing warned the u.s. was, quote, "playing with fire." >> it will be another provocation. we firmly oppose this and will take resolute countermeasures to fight back. [applause] nick: last summer, after then speaker of the house nancy's hello please visit -- nancy pelosi's visit to taiwan, missiles that landed within taiwan's territorial waters, part of the largest military exercises around the island in 25 years. beijing considers taiwan breakaway territory, and refers to tsai as the governor of a chinese province. u.s. policy, as enshrined in a 1972 communique, "acknowledges that all chinese on both sides of the taiwan strait maintain that there is one china and taiwan is a part of china."

but it is also us policy to help taiwan defend itself. and the biden administration has accelerated the deliveries of billions of dollars of weapons. after the meeting, mccarthy said he wanted dialogue with beijing, but also endorsed faster weapons deliveries. >> supply the weapons to allow people to deter war. supply the weapons so people can defend themselves. it is a critical lesson that we learned through ukraine. nick: so how is china likely to respond, and what impact will today's meeting have on u.s.-china relations? bonnie glaser is managing director of the indo-pacific program at the german marshall fund of the united states, a public policy think tank. thanks very much seventh trip through the united states so why is beijing seemingly so angry? bonnie: the chinese were upset wh speaker nancy pelosi visited taiwan. they have warned again that they

do not want contacts between somebody who is second in line for the presidency. they do not want officials meeting with him and they don't want him transiting through the united states so the chinese have objected to everything about this visit. they see it as challenging sovereignty that they claim over taiwan. they see this as challenging their claim, their need for territorial integrity. xi jinping does not want to look weak on this issue. geoff: we heard from the chinese foreign ministry earlier in the story that one of the threats that they have made, last week, china's deputy abbasid are to the u.s. -- ambassador warned the mccarthy visit would be to "serious, serious, serious, i repeat, confrontation." well it? -- will it? bonnie: there's a possibility china will display force, may be

go beyond what they did when speaker pelosi was seen taiwan and at that time, they assimilated a blockade. they flew missiles over taiwan, some of which landed in the exclusive economic zone of japan. so we could see something similar. we could even see the chinese ratchet up tensions and try to fly aircraft in taiwan's territorial airspace, something that they have not done. but as you know, the biden administration has encouraged beijing not to respond strongly, not to overreact, because as you said, this is the severance time that the president has transit in the united states. geoff: there has been an unusually high number of calls with reporters trying to emphasize that point that there is nothing to see here but let's zoom out. the biden administration has taken pays and speaker mccarthy did as well today that u.s. policy on taiwan has not changed.

on three distinct occasions, president biden said specifically that the u.s. would defend taiwan if needed. are there mixed messages today coming from washington? >> i think that the united states has sent some confusing messages on taiwan. our taiwan relations act does not say we have an obligation to defend taiwan. president biden as the president has the right to say that he would call for a defense of taiwan if china invades. it is not what is in the taiwan relations act. president biden has also said that taiwan is a democracy and should be allowed to do what it wants and my guess is that beijing finds that response very worrisome. geoff: absolutely. let's shift to china and beijing. we want to show a couple photos because president emmanuel macron of france arrived on a state visit in beijing and brings with him 50 business leaders. french officials say they expect to make deals.

that dialogue is important and one french official told one of your colleagues "we have no intention of joining a u.s. campaign to isolate china." are the united states and france in europe, are they on the same page when it comes to china? bonnie: i think that the u.s. and most of the countries in europe are on the same page when it comes to ukraine opposing china, providing any lethal aid to moscow in the war in ukraine. it is asking xi jinping to step up and pressure president putin, to stop the war. but when it comes to the relationship with china, i think that there certainly is greater emphasis on commercial ties with china. macron obviously would like to sign deals with chinese companies. i think that we have seen chancellor schulz when he visited beijing, also bring businesses with him. i think the trend in europe is toward greater concern about the threats and challenges that china poses so i think there is

room to work together but we are not going to be in the same page on every issue. >> does that change beijing's calculus when it comes to taiwan, the efforts to get them more aligned with how washington is? but at the same time, these european efforts to maintain at the very least economic ties. bonnie: the europeans i think are increasingly concerned about the preservation of peace and stability in the taiwan strait. we have had a study last year by the group in new york that mentioned that there would be over $2 trillion of an impact on the global economy if china were to impose a blockade around taiwan and not even fire a shot. i think that got the attention -- the attention of the europeans but at the same time, the europeans are not interested in getting involved in a war should there be one that they can play a role in strengthening

deterrence and privately, i certainly hope that france's president macron raises the issue of president macron although he said he may not do so. maybe we will see wonder lion -- we will see the representative raise this issue with xi jinping. it's important for other countries to voice their concerns to the chinese. >> the president of the european commission who is on that trip. thank you very much. >> thank you. courts following his historic arrest and arraignment, former president donald trump returned last night to his florida state where he delivered a defiant and embittered address to the nation . while his indictment has been written into the history books, the political impact is an account still being written. we're going to speak shortly with two gop analysts, but first a look at how republicans are , responding to trump's escalating legal troubles.

mr. trump: i never thought anything like this could happen in america. geoff: former president donald trump delivering a speech tuesday night that was both a rebuttal to prosecutors and an attempted reboot of his presidential campaign former -- campaign. hours after becoming the first former president charged with a crime. mr. trump the only crime that i : have committed is to fearlessly defend our nation from those who seek to destroy it. geoff: in a manhattan courtroom tuesday afternoon, mr. trump was silent, apart from answering "not guilty" to 34 felony criminal charges. but back at his mar-a-lago home tuesday night, before hundreds of supporters the former , president pulled a page from his playbook, slamming the indictment as politically motivated. mr. trump this fake case was : brought only to interfere with the upcoming 2024 election, and it should be dropped immediately. -- geoff: testing himself as the

victim of political persecution but mostly rehashing false claims of a stolen 2020 election. mr. trump: they cannot beat us at the ballot box so they try and beat us through the law. geoff: mr. trump's next court date is not until december, putting the case on a collision course with the 2024 republican presidential primary. the rest of the announced and potential contenders were largely quiet on tuesday as mr. trump's allies in congress defended him on social media. house speaker kevin mccarthy blasting the district attorney as attempting to interfere in our democratic process. senator ted cruz calling it a mockery of the rule of law. even republican senator mitt romney, who twice voted for mr. trump's impeachment still believe mr. trump is unfit for office and says the charges set a dangerous precedent. senator lindsey graham took to fox on the former president's behalf, asking for 2024 votes in cash.

>> if you can afford five or $10, just pray. >> they are offering t-shirts with fake mugshots and raking in millions. joining us now are two republican strategists who are following all of this. he was consulted with republican and dog high is with us. he worked for the rnc and the george w. bush administration. welcome to you both. let's start with mitt romney's position because i find that to be really instructive and illuminating. mitt romney, someone who twice voted for his impeachment, donald trump's impeachment, is effectively coming to his defense. even if you agree with him on the merits that this case is

political, it really illustrates the inherent complexities they have in trying to dethrone donald trump or move on from donald trump if that is what ey want to do. >> if i were trying to design a case that would make it easy for republicans to dismiss the case as a partisan witchhunt, i would design exactly the case we saw yesterday in manhattan. take a local law where it is normally a misdemeanor, link it to a federal election through a novel and completely untested legal theory in aase brought by a democratic prosecutor who when he was running for the office he holds boasted that he had sued trump administration more than 100 times. is it any wonder that people who were not normall defenders of donald trump find this one to be a real stretch? >> he is a lot smarter than i am which is why he walked through some of the theories that are better untested and so forth but there's also the other reality

here. republicans starting to sound a lot like democrats did in bill clinton's impeachment. we are hearing not mitt romney but a lot of the others are saying even presidents have private lives and it is democrats who are sounding like republicans did in 1998, talking about the rule of law. donald trump turned politics upside down so many times that we don't know which way is up. we are seeing that again in all of this in the argument that the trump people are making on this, similar to bill clinton ultimately was successful for bill clinton where the senate said presidents have private lives and maybe we should not deal with all of the nastiness for the process around that. >> you are both highly regarded political strategists and i am hesitant to ask you to give us free political advice. i will do that anyway. if you were advising one of these republican contenders to donald trump, how would you advise them toandle this, especially when you have this case running parallel it seems with the 2024 presidential race? >> there is no possible way to

break through the cacophony. the best that a contender can do is act like a potential president and wait for some of these other investigations to play out. investigations with far more serious charges then we saw in manhattan and with much more severe consequences. we do not know what is coming but it is hard to imagine that those cases would have no effect on former president trump's political standing. >> if elections are all about contrasts, this is quite a contrast. why wouldn't a candidate try and take advantage of that? >> because you still have a republican base that is very loyal to donald trump and we have seen so often over these past few years -- when is a republican going to stand up to donald trump and speak out? whether it is paul ryan, kevin mccarthy, or anyone else. they know where the republican base is. what is different in th future ones, -- when you come to a fork

in the road, you take it. republicans have not taken it before but if georgia or the department of justice makes a real motion against donald trump, they will be in a different place to potentially take that fork in the road and that is why mike pence may be the most interesting republican in the conversation right now. we don't want to talk about unprecedented. a vice president being willing to testify against his president, we have never seen that before. mike pence has maybe not as much credibility with the maga core of the basement may be with rank-and-file republicans. geoff: i want to ask you about what happened in wisconsin. democrats won a crucial seat. it is a big sign that abortion is still a motivating factor for voters even in an off year election. wisconsin elections as you both know are pretty close, usually decided by some 20,000 votes. this one was decided by 200,000 votes. the liberal in this case, the candidate, beat the trump backed republican by 10 points. how do you read that?

how do you read those results? >> we know from the 2022 midterm elections that overturning roe v. wade really energized the democratic base around the issue of abortion. i was one of the main reasons republicans had a poor night, that and some really atrocious candidates that were nominated, so i think what we are seeing is the effect of the abortion issue on the debate even in a swing state like wisconsin. geoff: moving forward, republicans are losing races it appears in the suburbs of atlanta and philadelphia and milwaukee. how does the republican party support itself moving forward in this sort of electoral dimension? >> you have very different parties. you have washington, d.c. on the rest of the country and their priorities are different and what it means practically is that abortion is going to remain a topic for republicans up and down the ballot. the dobbs decision moved abortion from something in

theory to an issue in practice and a mobilizer for democrats. be careful what you wish for. it might come true. it came true for republicans. they will have to decide if it was worth it politically but meanwhile, states have trigger laws or enact other laws. it is keeping the issue alive. geoff: again, how would you advise candidates to deal with this on this abortion issue that appears to be a political loser? conservatives who care about this issue as an article of faith, they don't view it as a political issue. that abortion is no longer a constitutional right for them is enough. >> the vast majority of americans are not at the extreme on the abortion issue. most americans believe abortion should be allowed in some circumstances but not others so we debate the circumstances. candidates who want to be competitive nationally, what they should not do is take a very extreme position on one side or the other. that i am convinced our grandchildren will be arguing about the issue of abortion.

the voters sent one message over any other. don't be crazy. they don't want to vote for crazy people. when you take these extreme positions, you lose otherwise winnable races. republicans have learned that lesson especially on this issue in 2022, 2014, 2012, 2010. geoff: as we wrap up this conversation, returning to this issue of former president donald trump and his perceived electability, in any sort of other political universe, if the republicans lost the house as they did in 2018, lost the 2020 presidential election as they did previously and then in 2022 underperformed as a result of donald trump's influence, that would have been enough for the party to break with that standardbearer and yet it is not happening. why not? >> i'm reminded of the old mark twain line that there is no education in the second kick of a mule. republicans lost because of donald trump in 2018 2020, 2021, and 2022. i'm hopeful that republicans

will decide that there is no education in the fifth kick of them you will. geoff: -- the mule. geoff: thank you. the fda recently made it easier for people to obtain a powerful overdose reversing medicine called naloxone. the drug previously required a prescription but soon will be sold over-the-counter. many communities are already successfully using it to fight the tide of overdose deaths. with support from the pulitzer centernd in collaboration with the global health reporting center, william brangham reports from upstate new york as part of our series. >> the tiny town west of syracuse. the crowd is cheering on the home team and point guard julia

wilson. that is julia's mom. on the court, julia is cool under pressure and not just on the court. she proved last summer. -- as she proved last summer. >> something is happening at the neighbors house. i figured he was messi with me so i was like, very funny. i think there is an overdose. so i looked out t window and i can see this man laying on the floor in the shed and i can see two people trying to do cpr on him. >> many people would freeze but julia had learned what to do in this situation. >> i run back into my room, grabbed my narcan kit. >> it is a nasal spray version of naloxone that can reverse an overdose of heroin, fentanyl, or other opioids if given in the first critical stretch of time. >> this man is just laying here. he's not talking. he's not responded -- responding

at all. i checked to see if he has a pulse. he didn't. and so, i grab one of my gloves and just wrapped it around the narcan and i just put one dose in his nose. he still was not breathing. i started to perform cpr. my dad got the other package of narcan out and then i stopped and i put in the other dose. >> when he comes around and opens his eyes, what was your response? >> it was kind of just like -- all i uld think was wow. >> julia learned what to do in a health class called bones, bodies, and bandages. the class was taught then as it is today by donna. >> this is a skill and kids love hands-on things so this is just one other avenue to keep yourself healthy or to be able to help a friend. if you know that you can do

something to help somebody and you can get this scale, do it because otherwise, you are going to feel bad that you did not help. >> the overdose epidemic touches every part of the country but rural areas have special challenges. like fewer providers who treat people with substance use disorders and long wait times when people call for help after an overdose. that underscores the importance of narcan. >> that whole idea of having narcan on you, in your purse, in your car, that is something we stressed over the last three years. >> she is th director of the county's program to fight overdose and addiction. >> it is still important for first responders to come and have that follow-up care. those few minutes are really important and it's even more critical in rural areas where it's not just a few minutes until first responders arrive. >> the push to distribute narcan was funded until recently by a

federal study called healing communities which poured money into sites in four states. >> i will check the boxes. >> the pied piper is wally myers. they teach overdose prevention to anyone who will listen. >> push the red button. you wait three minutes. 911 will be on the phone with you. there's two doses in the box and don't administer another dose until three minutes. stay out of trouble. >> myers tries to make sure government buildings and private businesses have narcan kits on the wall. they are free, available to anyone who opens up the box. two of those per box and when someone goes into one of the boxes, they are supposed to take the whole thing. a lot of times, you need more than one. >> a lot of times, it seems as

though it doesn't work. seven. seven for me. i have been in recovery for 10 years but sober for 6.5 years. i relapsed, overdosed on fentanyl. seven doses of narcan bring me back. >> haunted demons of his own, he is fighting to give other people the same second chance that he got. >> i sniff two lines and i stood up and i fell over and i bounced my head off of the stand, rolled in the closet. i called 911. basically saved my life. >> when cuyahoga county started this program two years ago, none of these boxes were on the wall. none. none. plus 188 of them. >> all told, they have put more than 3000 narcan kits into the community. at least 113 people here have been revived by a bystander with narcan and since 2020, even as

fatalities hit new highs all over the country, in this rural county, they are down by a stunning 43%. it is not just narcan. the program encourages doctors to treat people using medicaons that reduce physical cravings. it is called medication assisted therapy. >> there is a lot of science behind that that medications for opioid use disorder have really proven to be a good way to get people on the path to recovery. >> federal funding paid for a doctor who wrote the prescriptions but that money ran out in january. >> we are relying on our local providers. it is hard. because places are overrun. it'seally hard to get somebody in the same day. >> in downtown auburn in the shadow of the prison that once housed the country's first electric chair is a place called mix right -- nick's ride.

the scene in the basement is jarring. they call it combat recovery. up in front, firing them up, is a former mma fighter named randy smith. >> i cannot let my guard down. i dropped my hands, one good shot on the jaw's gonna put me on the mat. same thing in recovery. >> smith ended up here, after developing a fierce addiction to painkillers. he is what they ll a peer counselor, offering moral and practical support to people who are just starting their recovery. alt -- starting their recovery. >> the mark of a true champion as whether you get knocked down or unless whether you get back up. >> afternoons find smith in the basement with his crew, many in recovery from substance use, others just looking for a good workout. most mornings find smith at the local jail. he was once an inmate here. >> when i was here, it was during covid and i had to quarantine right there for 14 or 15 days. >> now he's leading a woman's

, support group. nationwide, women in rural areas are more likely to die of an overdose than women in cities. randy knows the challenge is keeping people alive long enough that they can find their way to a new pa and that takes everybody pitching in. >> i kind of just keep it right here. bonnie: -- >> in fact, just a few months after her first save, julia had to grab the narcan again. this time it was someone close to her family, and this time, they didn't make it. >> i'm really sorry. it's horrible. >> thank you. >> i mean, you know you did everything you could possibly. >> yeah. and i've had a couple of people, i don't know if you know wally, maybe. he's reached out, he's always checking in on me every couple of weeks. i definitely have support when i need help. flex in the fall, julia will head off to study nursing, at a

joint program with suny upstate medical university, lending her hand yet again, to try and heal the troubled world around her. for the pbs newshour, i'm william brangham, in cayuga county, new york. ♪ geoff: over the past few months, artificial intelligence has managed to create award-winning art, pass the bar exam, and even diagnose illnesses better than some doctors. but as a.i. grows more sophisticated and popular, the voices warning against the potential dangers are growing louder. italy has becomehe first western nation to temporarily ban the a.i. tool chatgpt over data privacy concerns. more european countries are expected to follow. here at home, president biden met yesterday with a team of science and tech advisers on the issue and said tech companies

must ensure their a.i. products are safe for consumers. we're joined now by seth dobrin, president of the responsible ai institute and former global chief artificial intelligence officer for ibm analytics. great to have you here. seth: i appreciate it. geoff: people are thinking of siri, alexei. what kind of advanced ai technology are we talking about here? what can i do? seth: technology called large language models or foundational models. these are very large models that are trained essentially on the whole of the internet. that is the promise as well as the scary thing about them. the internet basically reflects human behavior, human norms, the good, the bad aut us, and the ai is trained on that same information it open ai, which is the company that built chance ept which most everyone in the world is aware of at this point

-- there's a few who still are not -- but it was trained on reddit, which from a content perspective is really not where i would pick. how do you train a machine to understand how humans converse? it's great. it is pulling the good and the bad for the internet. >> reddit is like a chat site. seth: and you get all these bad conversations going on in things called subreddits so there's a lot of hate, misogyny, racism that's in the various subreddits if you will. if you think about what it is ultimately doing, it is essentially auto complete. but on a lot of steroids. because it is predicting what is going to happen next based on what you put into it. >> the concerns about the potential risks are so great that more than 1000 tech leaders and academics wrote this letter recently, as you know, calling for a temporary halt of advanced ai development. part of that reads this way. recent ones have seen ai labs

locked in and control ever more powerful digital mindset no one, not even their creators can understand, predict, or reliably control. what is causing that kind of alarm? seth: there is some concern to be honest. this technology was let out of the bag and put into the wild in a way that any human can use it in the form of a conversational interface. it has been available for engineers and data scientists which are the prossionals that work in this field for a number of years now. only approved people can get access to it. in that controlled environment, it was good because they were able to interact with it and learn and give them feedback on things like when the first one came out, you could put in what is seth's social security number

and they would give it to you. what is every actress i ever lived at? and they will give it to you. these are the kind of things that could be controlled. putting this out in the wild. it's like giving the world uranium and not teaching them how to build a nuclear reactor. there are some things that companies can do or should do to get it under control. geoff: like what? seth: if you look at what the protasiewicz it -- the e.u. is doing,hey are regulating outcomes. anything that impacts health, wealth, or livelihood of a human should be regulated. i am president of the respsible ai institute. the letter also calls for tools to assess these things. that is what we do. we are a nonprofit and we build tools that align to global

standards so some of your viewers have probably heard of isl standards -- iso standards. wbuild standards -- we build ways to align or conform to standards for ai and they are applicable to these types of ai as well but what is important, and this gets to the heart of the letter as well, is we do not try and understand what the model is doing. we measure the outcome. quite honestly, if you or i are getting a mortgage, we don't care if the model is biased. we care is the outcome biased. we don't necessarily need the model explained. we need to understand why a decision was made and it's typically the interaction beeen the ai and the human that drives that, not just the ai, and not just the human. geoff: we have about 30 secos left. it struck me that the industry will have to police itself because this technology is advancing so quickly that

governments cannot keep pace with the legislation and the regulations required. seth: i think is not much different than we saw was social media. i think if you were to bring sam to congress, probably get as good a response as mark zuckerberg did. the congress people need to educate themselves. if we as citizens of the u.s. and of the world really think this is something we want the government to regulate, we need to make that a ballot box issue and not some of these other things that i think our lesson plan for. geoff: thank you so much for your insights. seth: really appreciate it. geoff: 20 years ago this week, u.s. forces were speeding toward iraq's capital city after invading the country weeks earlier. with them and waiting for them in baghdad were hundreds of journalists who would go on to document a war that took a

brutal toll on many iraqis u.s. , personnel, and sometimes, the journalists themselves. nick schifrin spoke with three -- with some of them earlier this week. nick: the invasion of iraq is one of the rare moments that divide history, a time before and at times since. those who document the first draft of that history where the journalists who indicted with u.s. forces, who covered the war from iraqi communities and those who continue to return. to discuss how the invasion unfolded, how the story evolves, and how the legacy of iraq continues to haunt, i'm pleased to be joined by three of my journalist colleagues. the former npr and associate press reporter who spent eight years on and off in iraq including living in iraq, including baghdad, during the invasion. washington post staff photojournalist who left iraq and return for the person recently. and chip reid, a former cbs and nbc news correspondent who was embedded with u.s. marines for

the invasion and is now writing a book about those marines. welcome very much thank you guys. really appreciate your being here. let's start with the invasion. >> what they are doing here is literally digging in. they do that because if there's any shrapnel, it will fly over them if they are down below the surface of the ground. that was hard work indeed, believe me. you can see the smoke rising. that is the remnants of a battle about an hour-long firefight that we were right in the middle of. >> how do you remember the invasion today? >> that was the one story that was the most jaw-dropping, the most otherworldly. i don't have a military bone in my body but i went into this war feeling it was a gigantic mistake but it is not something that i think of in a negative way now because the experience for me was so extraordinary.

i developed tremendous respect for these marines i was with, 18-year-old kids who were making life and death decisions like that. i have tremendous respect for people who will put their lives on the line to answer the nation's call, even if it's a bad call. geoff: you are based in baghdad for the invasion. how did the drumbeat of war look from your respective when you were reporting out of saddam hussein's ministry of information? >> i was there when the weapons inspectors were there and it was a surreal place. it was a place full of fear. we had minders all the time, people that were assigned to us by the ministry of information that would inform on us, inform on the people that we were going to talk to. but i will never forget the day when it was clear that the united states was going to invade this quite feared and heinous member of the ministry of information. i went up to him and i said, you know, why aren't you preparing,

and he looked at me and said, you know what, it might not be bad after all. all of a sudden, i realized this veneer, this facade that i had been sort of sold in iraq was very, very different from the reality and something else was coming in its stead. geoff: that's four to 2004, you were at a celebration effectively invited by a u.s. official as saddam hussein's palace. what did you see? >> it was as the u.s. occupation authority was coming to a close. they were going to be handing over "sovereignty" to an iraqi government and billing it as the end of the iraq war. and they threw a barbecue in saddam hussein's palace. there were 19-year-old soldiers in swimming trunks, doing cannon balls into the pool, munching on corn and eating hot dogs and hamburgers and in the midst of all this, paul bremmer, who had

overseen a period of absolute chaos and hubris and mismanagement, shed a tear and was talking about what a great job he had done. and then president bush came on via video link and told everyone in his texas twang to enjoy a good barbecue. there were no iraqis there. there were only americans and i think it was very symbolic of what was to come. >> absolutely. you were a teenager at the time, living in the united states. what did your family experience during these first few years in the war? >> we never thought iraq -- my family were all iraqis and we believed democracy would finally come to that country. we were finally going to be free . i was worried about my relatives. i was worried about my grandma, my grandpa who was still in iraq. my cousins could not -- we had to pay to get them out. my other cousin was killed by a terrorist group in 2013,

targeting christians. and then when i returned during my last trip, i discovered that my grandpa's grave was 21 miles outside baghdad and was destroyed by u.s. soldiers who were looking for weapons. i could not believe it to see my grandpa's casket all destroyed after all these years. >> soany iraqi families have stories tragically. what we are talking about now is this sectarian conflict that engulfed the country. >> twisted metal and debris that littered what was a market area. women scream as they look for loved ones among corpses burned to a brutal black in the morgue. most of the dead are shiite and baghdad is burning. >> how much burned? >> that was every day in iraq. everyay brought some new horror that was unleashed on an iraqi family, some terrible

thing that had happened. once the civil war was unleashed, families fought ainst other members of their families. neighborhoods were ripped apart. hearing just that woman's scream, it reminds me so much of -- that was the sort of music of baghdad, this terrible lament of just pain and loss and fear. so it was a very hard war t cover. geoff: very hard war to experience for so many iraqis. i'm going to fast-forward here. you mentioned that you went back . what kind of country was waiting for you when you got back? >> definitely not the same country. people are kind of numb to what happened to them. it's really sad to see that people kind of -- you see they have given up hope. but they still kept the iraqi and them to always enjoy life with what little they have. and for me, it was a trip to kind of check my history, look back at my history when i was a

child. we barely had electricity. we would get a few hours a day. we had to leave because life was so difficult. and when i returned, i mean, things are little bit different of course but the country went through many wars and many conflicts. we don't expect it to change in one day. geoff: the scars of the war run deep across all of your guys's experience including the marines who you embedded with. tell us the story of mike martin is. >> mark martin is is one of -- martinez is one of the 42 means i interviewed. most of the bowel scars that are in the book are psychological, not physical. i have a picture of him with his family at camp pendleton when he came home. his wife, stephanie, who is in the photograph, holding their brand-new newborbaby. mike is holding junior. you can see he is just in

another world. almost 20 years later, he said he felt like he was walking on mars. >> we have a clip of the interview. you talking to mike and his son, mike junior. >> i was not physically abusive but i could be mentally abusive. i would act like a drill instructor on my kids and scream at them like a drill instructor. >> why is my dad like this question mike why is that happening to us? i wanted to talk back but you know, he is scary. >> scary. he was. his addiction was food. it wasn't drugs or alcohol. he said basically, i'm big, i'm bad, i'm intimidating, that's the way i am, and i'm always right. he got help from the v.a. in 2019. that's a long time after this began. now, he is in full-fledged

posttraumatic growth. he's going to school to become a teacher to leave the tedious job he has now. the family is vastly happier and the message in all of this, which is what so many marines told me, is if you are suffering from ptsd or pts, poster medic stress without a diagnosis best -- posttraumatic stress without a diagnosis. >> with your longtime iraqi colleague, he admitted this to you. >> one thing that i may have not always conveyed perfectly, i would say, is how much people resented your presence in the country. how much people that are really hated foreigners because they associated them with the invasion. >> how do you deal with that? >> it was hard to hear how so many iraqis did not welcome our presence as journalists and in fact many years later, i had

someone contact me on facebook. i have done a report on him, and he tracked me down, and he said, i wanted to reach out to you to tell you that you ruined my life. and i don't think that you knew what you were doing here when you were coming into my house to interview me. sometimes, we need to reckon ourselves as journalists also with the legacy of that war. >> you get the last word on that legacy. what is the legacy for iraqis of a war whose very premise was disproven? >> it's a hard one. you know, the legacy really changed the life of iraqis. people still struggle to get simple needs like jobs, electricity, including my family, where we suffered a lot. when i went back, my uncle was a translator for the u.s. marines and lost his life to a car bomb.

i don't know. the legacy, it's a hard question because people are still trying to figure out what happened there. >> and we will continue to thank you very much. appreciate it. >> and that is the newshour for tonight. join us here tomrow when we will speak with two former u.s. education secretaries about the widening learning gap among k-12 students. i am geoff bennett. thanks for spending part of your evening with as. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- the kendeda fund, committed to advancing restorative justice and meaningful work through investments in transformative leaders and ideas. more at kendedafund.org.

supported by the john d and catherine t macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just and peaceful world. more information at macfound .org. and with the ongoing support of these institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.] ♪

>> hello, and welcome t"common poor and company." former president donald trump -- "amanpour and company." former president donald trump indicted. we take a look at all the issues surrounding this historic moment in history. also