♪ geoff: good evening. i'm geoff bennett. amna nawaz is away. on the “newshour” tonight, the president of taiwan meets house speaker kevin mccarthy amid rising tensions between the u.s. and china. former president donald trump remains defiant after being charged with multiple felonies, as the political reaction to the case risks further dividing the country. and how rural communities are using a fact-acting overdose treatment in the daunting fight against opioid addiction. >> those few minutes are really important, and it's even more critical in rural areas where it's not just a few minutes until first responders arrive.

>> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. and friends of the "newshour." >> it was like an a-ha moment. this is what i love doing. early-stage companies have this energy that energizes me. these are people who are trying to change the world. when i volunteer wh women entrepreneurs, it's the same thing. i am helping people reach their dream. i am thriving by helping others, every day. people who know, know bdo. >> the william and flora hewlett foundation, for more than 50 years advancing ideas and supporting instituations to promote a better world.

at hewlett.org. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. geoff: good evening and welcome to the "newshour.” it happened again. a tornado killed at least five people today in southeastern missouri. it was the second round of deadly storms to strike that

part of the country in less than a week. gabrielle hays is in st. louis, and files this report. gabrielle: the tornado struck in the pre-dawn hours, and daybreak brought the destruction into full view. the storm ravaged the areas of marble hill and glen allen in rural bollinger county, about two hours south of st. louis. officials say the twister touched down for roughly 15 minutes. search and rescue operations got underway, with more than 20 agencies involved, including the st. louis fire department. crews went door to door checking for victims ansurvivors, at times cutting back toppled trees just to access them. the storm was part of the latest weather system to wreak havoc throughout the u.s. heartland. >>ook at that rope. oh my god! gabrielle: on tuesday, eyewitness video in iowa captured a long, spindly funnel cloud whipping into rope-like formations. >> oh my god!

gabrielle: and in illinois, blasts of lightning and intense winds causing damage to cars, homes, and power lines. it all came just days after tornadoes struck little rock, arkansas and elsewhere, killing 32 people. for the “pbs newshour,” i'm gabrielle hays in st. louis. geoff: all told, some 40 million people were under the threat of severe storms today, across a swath of states. former vice president mike pence will testify after all in the justice department's january 6 investigation. a spokesman said today that he will not appeal a federal judge's order to comply with a subpoena. lawyers for former president donald trump had argued that the subpoena violates executiv privilege. in the middle east, there are reportedly new clashes this evening at the al-aqsa mosque in jerusalem. that follows last night's violence when israeli police said palestinians refused to leave after evening prayers. police video showed officers storming the compound as palestinians threw fireworks.

the palestinians said a number of people were beaten by the police. in response, militants in gaza fired rockets, and the israelis launched air strikes. there were no reports of casualties. back in this country, the u.s. justice department has reached a tentative settlement of more than 144 million dollars with victims of a mess shooting in texas. in 2017, a government attacked a baptist church service in sutherland springs outside senator tonio and killed 26 people, including a pregnant woman, and wounded 22 others. a federal judge found the u.s. air force never reported that the shooter had been court-martialed for assault. that would have barred m from buying a gun. progressive democrats are celebrating victories in two key elections today. in chicago, brandon johnson won a tuesday run-off to be the next mayor. he was backed by the city's teachers union. and in wisconsin, voters elected janet protasiewicz to the state supreme court. that gives it a liberal majority

ahead of key rulings on abortion access and voting rights. justice protasiewicz: our state is taking a step forward to a better and brighter future where our rights andreedoms will be protected. [cheers] and while there is still work to be done, tonight we celebrate this historic victory that has obviously reignited hope in so many of us. geoff: in denver, two relatively moderate candidates led a crowded field in t mayor's race, with votes still being counted. a state report in maryland concludes more than 150 catholic priests and others sexually abused some 600 children over a span of 80 years. the state attorney general said today a nearly four-year investigation found pervasive, pernicus, and persistent abuse that church officials covered up. the archbishop of baltimore apologized, and called the accounts shocking. two more states have banned gender-affirming care for minors.

the republican governor of indiana signed a ban today, hours after idaho's republican governor did the same. 13 states now have such laws. and kansas became the 20th state to bar trans athletes from girls' and women's sports after republican lawmakers overrode the governor's veto. the environmental protection agency announced new limits today on emissions of mercury and other pollutants from coal-fired power plants. the proposals would reverse a trump-era rollback of standards put in place by president obama. epa says the shift aims to protect children, vulnerable adults, and those living near power plants. and on wall street, stocks struggled after another batch of disappointing data on the economy. the dow jones industrial average gained 80 points to close at 33,482. but thnasdaq fell 129 points, or 1%. and the s&p 500 lost 10 points. still to come on the "newshour”" the political fallout from the felony charges against former president trump.

thousands of tech leaders and academics call for a pause on the rapid development of artificial intelligence. and reporters who covered the u.s. invasion of iraq reflect on the war 20 years later. >> this is the "pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. geoff: for the first time, a taiwanese president has met a speaker of the house on u.s. soil. today's meeting between president tsai ing-wen, speaker kevin mccarthy, and more than a dozen lawmakers took place despite beijing's threats of a serious response. nick schifrin reports. nick: at the reagan library, t second in line to the u.s. presidency, in front of dozens of cameras, initiated the handshake that beijing had tried to block. speaker of the house kevin mccarthy, and taiwanese president tsai ing-wen met for two hours with more than a dozen

lawmakers of both parties. re mccarthy: i'm optimistic that we will continue to find ways for the people of america and taiwan to work together to promote economic freedom, democracy, peace, and stability in the region. nick: after the meeting, mccarthy and tsai swore solidarity against an unnamed beijing. pres. tsai: the peace that we have maintained and the democracy which we have worked hard to build are facing unprecedented challenges. we once again find ourselves in a world where democracy is under threat. nick: tsai has visited the u.s. six times previously since becoming president in 2016. the biden administration calls the u.s. visits transits, between tsai's visits to latin american countries with diplomatic relations with taip. today, secretary of state antony blinken urged china not to overreact.

sec. blinken: beijing should not use the transits as an excuse to take any actions to ratchet up tensions. nick: but, 6500 miles away, beijing has hinted at a military response. and after exercises last weekend, today, iwan said china sailed an aircraft carrier group off taiwan's southeast coast. before the meeting, beijing warned the u.s. was -- quote -- "playing with fire." zhu: it will be another provocation. we firmly oppose this and will take resolute countermeasures to fight back. nick: last summer, after then-speak of the house nancy pelosi's visit to taiwan, beijing fired missiles that landed within taiwan's territorial waters, part of the largest military exercises around the island in 25 years. beijing considers taiwan breakaway territory, and calls tsai the governor of a chinese province. u.s. policy, as enshrined in a 1972 communique, acknowledges that all chinese on both sides of the taiwan strait maintain that there is one china and taiwan is a part of china.

but it is also us policy to help taiwan defend itself. and the biden administration has accelerated the deliveries of billions of dollars of weapons. and, after the meeting, mccarthy said he nted dialogue with beijing, but also endorsed faster weapons deliveries. rep. mccarthy: supply the weapons to allow people to deter war. supply the weapons so people can defend themselves. it is a critical lesson that we learned through ukraine. nick: so how is china likely to respond, and wt impact will today's meeting have on u.s.-china relations? bonnie glaser is managing director of the indo-pacific program at the german marshall fund of the united states, a public policy think tank. bonnie glaser, thanks very much. welcome back to the "newshour." as we pointed out, this is president tsai's seventh trip through the united states. so why is beijing seemingly so angry? bonnie: well, the chinese were upset when speaker nancy pelosi visited taiwan.

they have warned again that they do not want contacts between somebody who is second in line for the presidency. they don't want officials meeting with tsai, and they don't want tsai transiting through the united states. so the chinese have objected to everything about this visit, because, of course, they see it as challenging their sovereignty that they claim over taiwan. they see this as challenging their claim of their need for territorial integrity. and xi jinping, i think, does not want to look weak on this issue. nick: we heard from the chinese foreign ministry there earlier in the story one of the threats that they have made. last week, chinese -- china's deputy ambassador to the u.s., on a call with me and a few other reporters, warned the mccarthy visit would lead to -- quote -- "serious, serious, serious, i repeat, confrontation" -- end quote. will it? bonnie: well, there certainly is a possibility that china will engage in a display of force, maybe go beyond what they did

when speaker pelosi was in taiwan. and, at that time, they simulated a blockade. they flew missiles over taiwan, some of which landed in the exclusive economic zone of japan. so we could see something similar. we could even see the chinese ratchet up tensions, and try, for example, to fly aircraft in taiwan's territorial airspace, something that they have not done but, as you know, the biden administration has encouraged beijg not to respond strongly, not to overreact, because, as you said, this is the 7th time that present tsai ing-wen has transited in the united states. nick: yes, there's been an unusually high number of calls with reporters in the last couple of weeks trying to emphasize that point, that there is nothing to see here. but let's zoom out. the biden administration has taken pains, and speaker mccarthy actually did as well today, that u.s. policy on taiwan has not changed. but on three distinct occasions,

president biden said specifically that the u.s. would defend taiwan if needed. so are there mixed messages today coming from washington? bonnie: well, i think that the united states has sent some confusing messages on taiwan. yes, our taiwan relations act does not say that we have an obligation to fend taiwan. and president biden, as the present, has the right to say that he would call for a defense of taiwan if china invades. it's not what is in the taiwan relations act. but president biden has also said that taiwan is a democracy and should be allowed to do what it wants. and my guess is that beijing finds that response very, very worrisome. nick: absolutely. let's shift to china itself and beijing. and we want to show a couple photos, because president emmanuel macron of france has arrived on a state visit in beijing. he brings with him 50 business leaders. french officials say they expect to make deals, that dialogue is important.

and one french official told one of your colleagues -- quote -- "we have no intention of joining a u.s. campaign to isolate china." are the united states and france and europe are on the same -- are they on the same page when it comes to china? bonnie: well, i think that the u.s. and most of the countries in europe are on the same page when it comes to ukraine opposing china, providing any lethal aid to moscow in the war in ukraine, asking xi jinping to step up and pressure president putin to stop the war. but when it comes to the relationship with china, i think that there certainly is greater emphasis on commercial ties with china. macron obviously would like to sign deals with chinese companies. i think that we have seen chancellor scholz, when he visited beijing, also bring businesses with him. but i do think that the trend in europe is toward greater concern about the threats and challenges that china poses.

and so i think there is room to work together, but we're not going to be in the same page on every issue. nick: but does that change beijing's calculus when it comes to taiwan, both the u.s. efforts to try and get europe and japan and south korea more aligned with how washington is, but, at the same time, these european efforts to maintain, at the very least, economic ties? bonnie: well, the europeans, i think, are increasingly concerned about the preservation of peace and stability in the taiwan strait. and we have had a study last year that -- by the rhodium group in new york that mentioned that there would be over $2 trillion of an impact on the global economy if china were to impose a blockade around taiwan and not even fire a shot. i think that got the attention -- the attention of the europeans. but, at the same time, no, the europeans are not interested in getting involved in a war, would there be one, but they can play a role in strengthening deterrence.

and, privately, i certainly hope that france's president macron raises the issue of taiwan, although he has said he may not do so. maybe we will see von der leyen raise this issue with xi jinping. it is important for other countries to voice their concerns to the chinese. nick: von der leyen, the prident of the european commission, who is also on that trip with esident macron of france. bonnie glaser of the german marshall fund, thank you very much. bonnie: thank you. ♪ geoff: following his historic arrest and arraignment, former president donald trump returned lastight to his florida estate, where he delivered a defiant and embittered address to the nation. while his indictment has been written into the history books, the political impact ian account still being written.

we're going to speak shortly with two gop strategists, but, first, a look at how republicans are responding to mr. trump's escalating legal troubles. mr. trump: i never thought anything like this could happen in america. geoff: former president donald trump delivering a speech tuesday night that was both a rebuttal to prosecutors and an attempted reboot of his presidential campaign former campaign hours after becoming the first former president charged with a crime. mr. trump: the only crime that i have committed is toearlessly defend our nation from those who seek to destroy it. geoff: in a manhattan courtroom tuesday afternoon, mr. trump was silent, apart from answering "not guilty" to 34 felony criminal charges. but, back at his mar-a-lago home tuesday night, before hundreds of supporters, the former president pulled a page from his playbook, slamming the indictment as politically motivated. mr. trump: this fake case was brought only to interfere with the upcoming 2024 election, and it should be dropped immediately.

geoff: casting himself as the victim of political persecution and previewing his criminal defense, but mostly rehashing false claims of a stolen 2020 election. mr. trump: they can't beat us at the ballot box, so they try and beat us through the law. geoff: mr. trump's next court date is not until december, putting the case on a collision course with the 2024 republican presidential primary. the rest of the announced and potential gop presidential contenders were largely quiet tuesday, as mr. trump's allies in congress defended him on social media. house speaker kevin mccarthy blasting the district attorney as "attempting to interfere in our democratic process." texas senator ted cruz calling it a "mockery of the rule of law." even republican senator mitt romney, who twice voted for mr. trump's impeachment and still believes mr. trump is unfit for office, said the charges set a dangerous precedent. republican senator lindsey graham took to fox on the former president's behalf, asking for 2024 votes and cash.

sen. graham: please help president trump, if you can afford $5 or $10. if you can't afford $1, fine. just pray. geoff: the trump campaign is swamping inboxes with fund-raising e-mails, offering t-shirts with fake mug shots, and raking in millions. that is as mr. trump blasts the case and three other investigations that coul eventually lead to additional charges. and joining us now are two republican strategists who are following all of this. whit ayres is the president of north star opinion research. he has consulted for republicans, including senators marco rubio and lindsey graham and florida governor ron desantis. and doug heye is with us. he's worked for the rnc and the george w. bush administration. with a welcome to you both, whit, let's start with mitt romney's position here, because i find that to be really instructive and illuminating, because, rather than criticize donald trump for his alleged criminality, mitt romney, someone who twice voted for his impeachment, donald trump's impeachment, is effectively coming to his defense. and even if you agree with him on the merits that this case is

political, it really illustrates the inherent complexities republicans have in trying to dethrone donald trump or move on from donald trump, if that's what they want to do. whit: geoff, if i were trying to design a case that would make it easy for republicans to dismiss the case as a partisan witch-hunt, i would design exactly the case we saw yesterday in manhattan. geoff: wow. why? whit: you take a local law where it's normally a mdemeanor, link it to a federal election through a novel and completely untested legal theory, in a case brought a democratic prosecutor who, when he was running for the office he holds, boasted that he had sued the trump administration more than 100 times. is it any wonder that people who are not normally defenders of donald trump find this one to be a real stretch? geoff: doug, how do you see it? doug: so, whit is a lot smarter than i am, which is why he walks through some of the theories that are untested and so forth. but there's also the other reality here is, you're hearing

republicans starting to say -- starting to sound a lot like democrats did in bill clinton's impeachment. we're hearing not mitt romney, but a lot of the others are basically saying, even presidents have private lives. and it's democrats who are sounding like republicans in 1998, talking about the rule of law. donald trump has turned our politics upside-downo many times we don't know which way is up. we're seeing that again in all of this. and the argument that the trump people are making on this, similar to bill clinton -- ultimately was successful real for bill clinton -- where the united states senate said, you're right. presidents have private lives, and maybe we shouldn't deal with all of the paperwork and nastiness, the process around that. geoff: you are both highly regarded political strategists. i'm hesitant to ask you to give us free political advice. i'm going to do it anyway. if you were advising one of these republican contenders to donald trump, how would you advise them to handle this, especially when you have this case, running parallel, it seems, with the 2024 presidential race? whit: geoff, there's no possible way to break through the cacophony.

the best that a contender can do right now is look, sound and act like a potential president and wait for some of these other investigations to play out, investigations with far more serious charge than we saw in manhattan, and with much more severe consequences. we don't know what's coming, but it's hard to imagine that those cases would have no effect on president -- former president trump's political standing. geoff: if elections are all about contrasts, i mean, this is quite a contrast. why wouldn't a candidate try to take advantage of that? doug: because you still have a republican base that's very loyal to donald trump. and we have seen so often over these past few years, when is a republican going to stand up to donald trump? when is a republican going to speak out, whether it's paul ryan, or kevin mccarthy, or anyone else? and the reality isthey know where the republican base is. what's different, not in this case, but potentially in the future ones, is, it gets to what yogi berra used to talk about. when you come to a fork in the road, you take it.

republicans haven't taken it before. but if georgia or the department of justice makes a real motion against donald trump, they're going to be in a different place to potentially take that fork in the road. i's why mike pence may be the most interesting republican in the conversation right now. we want to talk about unprecedented. a vice president being willing to testify against his president, we have never seen that before. and mike pence has maybe not as much credibility with the maga core of the base, but certainly a lot of credibility with rank and file republicans. geoff: in the time that remains, i want to ask you both about what happened last night in wisconsin. democrats won a crucial seat on the state supreme court. it's a big sign that abortion is still a motivating factor for voters even in an off-year election. and wisconsin elections, as you both know, are usually pretty close, usually decided by some 20,000 votes. this one was decided by 200,000 votes. and the liberal in this case, the candidate, beat the trump-cked republican by 10 points. how do you read that? how do you read those results?

whit: geoff, we know from the 2022 midterm elections that overturning roe vs. wade really energized the democratic base around the issue of abortion. that was one of the main reasons republicans had a poor night, that and some really atrocious candidates that were nominated. so, i think what we're seeing here is the effect of the abortion issue on the debate, even in a swing state like wisconsin. geoff: wel moving forward, doug, i mean, republicans are losing races, it appears, in the suburbs of atlanta, in the suburbs of philadelphia, now in the suburbs of milwaukee. how does the republican party support itself moving forward in this sort of electoral dimension? doug: well, you have very different parties. you have washington, d.c., and you have the rest of the country. and their priorities are different. and what it means practically is that abortion is going to remain a topic for republicans up and down the ballot, because we have moved -- the dobbs decision moved abortion from something in theory to an issue in practice

and a mobilizer for democrats. it's the old case of be careful what you wish for, it might come true. it came true for republicans. they're going to have to decide if it was worth it politically. but, meanwhile, as states have trigger laws or just enact other laws, it'not -- it's keeping that issue alive. geoff: so, again, i mean, how would you advise candidates to deal with this on this abortion issue that appears to be a political loser? and we should say that conservatives who care about this issue as an article of faith, they don't view it necessarily as a political issue. that abortion is no longer a constitutional right for them is enough. whit: geoff, the vast majority of americans are not at the extremes on the abortion issue. most americans believe abortion should be allowed in some circumstances, but not others. and so we debate the circumstances. what candidates who want to be competitive nationally should not do is take a very extreme position one side or the other. but i'm convinced our grandchildren will be arguing about the issue of abortion.

doug: big takeaway from 2022, the voters sent one message over any other -- don't be crazy. they don't want to vote for crazy people. and when you take the extreme positions, you lose otherwise winnable races. and republicans have learned that lesson, especially on this issue, in 2022, 2014, 2012, 2010. geoff: yeah. well, as we wrap up this conversation, returning to this issue of former president donald trump and his perceived electability, in any sort of other political universe, if the republicans lost the house, as they did in 2018, lost the 2020 presidential election, as they did previously, and then in 2022 underperformed as a result of donald trump's influence, that would have been enough for the party to break with that standard-bearer. and yet that's not happening. why not? whit: geoff, i'm reminded of the old mark twain line that there's no education in the second kick of a mule. republicans lost because of donald trump in 2018, 2020, 2021, and 2022. i'm hopeful that republicans will decide that there's no

education in the fifth kick of mule. geoff: whit ayres and doug heye, thank you so much for your insights. doug: a lot of mule kicks this week. [laughter] whit: thank you. ♪ geoff: the fda recently made it easier for people to obtain a powerful overdose-reversing medicine called naloxone. the drug, sold as narcan, previously required a prescription, but soon will be sold over the counter. many communities are already successfully using it to fight the tide of overdose deaths. with support from the pulitzer center and in collaboration with the global health reporting center, william brangham reports from upstate new york as part of our series rural rx. william: a late winter night in cato, new york, a tiny town west of syracuse. the crowd is cheering on the home team and point guard julia wilson.

that is julia's mom. on the court, julia is cool under pressure, and not just on the court, as she proved last summer. julia: my dad comes running in my room and he's like, "something's happening at the neighbor's house." so i just figured he was messing with me. and so i was like, "yeah, very funny." he's like, "no, i'm serious." he goes, "i think there's an overdose." and so i look out the window and i can see this man laying on the floor in a shed. and i can see two people trying to do cpr on him. william: many people would freeze, but julia had learned what to do in this situation. julia: and so i run back into my room. i grab my narcan kit. william: narcan is a nasal spray version of naloxone, a medication that can reverse an overdose of heroin, fentanyl, or other opioids if it's givein the first critical stretch of time. julia: and i get in there. and this man, he's just laying there. he's not talking. he's not responding at all.

and so i check to see if he has a pulse. he didn't. and so, i grabbed one of my gloves, and i just wrapped it around the narcan, and i just put one dose in his nose. he still wasn't breathing. so i started to perform cpr when my dad got the other package of narcan out. then i stopped and i put in the other dose. william: and when he comes around and opens his eyes, what was your response? julia: when i seen him sit up, it was kind of just like a -- like, all i could think was just wow. william:ulia learned what to do in a health class that was called bones, bodies, and bandages. the class was taught then, as it is today, by donna cappellano, or ms. cap, as everyone calls her. donna: this is a skill. and kids love hands-on things. and so this is just one other avenue to keep yourself healthy or to be able to help a friend. if you know that you can do

something to help somebody and you can get the skill, do it, because, otherwise, you're going to feel -- you're just going to feel bad that you didn't help. william: the overdose epidemic touches every part of the country. but rural areas have special challenges, like fewer providers who treat people with substance use disorders, and long wait times when people call for help after an overdose. that underscores the importance of narcan. monika: that whole idea of having narcan on you, in your purse, in your car, that's really something we stressed over the last three years. william: monika salvage is the director of healing cayuga, the county's program to fight overdose and addiction. monika: obviously, it's still important for first responders to come and to have that follow-up care. but those few minutes are really important. and it's even more critical in rural areas, where it's not just a few minutes until first responders arrive. william: the push to distribute narcan here was funded until recently by a federal study

called healing communities, which poured money into sites in four states. wally: hey, i'm going to check the boxes. william: in cayuga county, the pied piper is wally meyers. going door to door, meyers preaches and teaches overdose prevention to anyoneho will listen. wally: the white tip in the nose. push the red button. >> that's it? wally: then you call 911, ok? you wait three minutes. 911 will be on the phone with you while you wait three minutes. there's two doses in a box. you don't administer another dose until three minutes. >> a right. wally: stay cool. >> you too. stay warm out there. wally: stay out of trouble. william: meyers tries to make sure that government buildings and private businesses have narcan kits on the wall. they're free, available to anyone who opens up the box. i see, so two of those per box? wally: yes. william: and when someone goes into one of the boxes, they're supposed to take the whole thing? wally: the whole box, yes. william: just because a lot of times you need more than one. wally: well, i mean, a lot of times, it seems as though they

don't -- two doesn't work. seven, yes, seven for me. so i have been in recovery for 10 years, but sober for 6.5. so, i relapsed, overdosed on fentanyl. seven doses of narcan to bring me back. william: haunted by demons of his own, meyers is fighting to give other people the same second chance that he got. wally: i sniffed two lines. and i stood up and i fell over and i bounced my head off of a nightstand, rolled in a closet. my oldest daughter found me there all aspirated and called 911, and basically saved my life. william: when cayuga county started this program two years ago, none of these boxes were on the wall. none? wally: none. and now there's, i think, 188 of them. william: all told, healing cayuga has put more than 3000 narcan kits into the community. at least 113 people here have been revived by bystanders with narcan.

and since 2020, even as fatalities hit new highs all over the country, in this rural county, they are down by a stunning 43%. it's not just narcan. the program encourages doctors to treat people using medications that reduce physical cravings. it's called medication-assisted therapy, or m.a.t. monika: there is a lot of science behind that, that medications for opioid use disorder have really proven to be a good way to get people on the path to recovery. william: federal funding paid for a doctor who wrote the prescriptions, but that money ran out in january. monika: so we're again relying on our local providers to step in. it's hard, because places are overrun. so it's really hard to get somebody in the same day. william: in downtown auburn, in the shadow of the prison that once housed the country's first electric chair, there's a place called nick's ride.

most weeknights, the scene in the basement is jarring, literally. they call it combat recovery. up in front, firing them up is a former mma fighter named randy smith. randy: so, i can't let my guard down, right? like, i drop my hands, one good shot on my jaw is going to put me on the mat. same thing in recovery. william: smith ended up here after developing a fierce addiction to painkillers. he's what they call a peer counselor, offering moral and practical support to people who are just starting their recovery. randy: and a mark of a true champion isn't whether you get knocked down or not. it's whether you get back up. william: afternoons finds smith in the basement with his crew, many in recovery from substance use, others just looking for a good workout. most mornings find smith at the local jail. he was oncan inmate here. randy: and when i was hereit was during covid. and i had to quarantine in the

cell right there for 14 or 15 days. william: now he's leading a women's support group. randy: we will start with check-ins. william: nationwide, women in rural areas are more likely to die of an overdose than women in cities. smith knows the challenge is keeping people alive long enough that they can find their way to a new path. and that takes everybody pitching in. in fact, just a few months after her first save, julia had to grab the narcan again. this time, it was someone close to her family. and, this time, they didn't make it. i'm really sorry. that's horrible. i mean, you know you did everything you could possibly. julia: i have had a couple of people. i don't know if you know wally maybe. william: mm-hmm. julia: he's reached out. he's always checking in on me every couple of weeks. i definitely have support when i need help. william: in the fall, julia will head off to study nursing at a

joint program with suny upstate medical university, lending her hand yet again to try and heal the troubled world around her. for the "pbs newshour," i'm william brangham in cayuga county, new york. ♪ geoff: over the past few months, artificial intelligence has managed to create award-winning art, pass the bar exam, and even diagnose illnesses better than some doctors. but as a.i. grows more sophisticated and popular, the voices warning against the potential dangers are growing louder italy has become the first western nation to temporarily ban the a.i. tool chatgpt over data privacy concerns,eor and european countries are expected to follow suit. here at home, president biden met yesterday with a team of science and tech advers on the issue and said tech companies

must ensure their a.i. products are safe for consumers. we're joined now by seth dobrin, president of the responsible a.i. institute and former global chief artificial intelligence officer for ibm. it's great to have you here. seth: yes, thanks for having me, geoff. i really appreciate it. geoff: and most people, when they think of a.i., they're thinking of siri on their cell phones. they're thinking of alexa or the google assistant. what kind of advanced a.i. technology are we talking about here? what can it do? seth: yes, so what we're talking about here is primarily technology called large language models or foundational models. these are very, very large models that are trained, essentially, on the whole of the internet. and that's the promise, as well as the scary thing about them is that the internet basically reflects human behavior, human norms, the good, the bad about us. and the a.i. is trained on that same information. and so for, instance, openai, which is the company that built chatgpt, which most everyone in the world is aware of at this

point -- geoff: there are a few who still aren't, but -- seth: yes, a few who still aren't, yes. [laughter] but it was trained on reddit, right, which, from a content perspective, is really not where i would pick. but from how do you train a machine to understand how humans converse, it's great. and so, it's pulling the good and the bad from the internet, and it does this in a way -- geoff: because, we should say, reddit is like a chat site. seth: yes, reddit is a chat site. and you get all these bad conversations going on and things called subreddits. and so there's a lot of hate, there's a lot of misogyny, there's a lot of racism that's in the various subreddits, if you will. and if you think about what it's ultimately trying -- what it's ultimately doing, it's essentially -- think of it as auto-complete, but on a lot of steroids, because all it's doing is, it's predicting what's going to happen next based on what you put into it. geoff: well, the concerns about the potential risks are so great that more than 1000 tech leaders and academics wrote this letter recently, you know, calling for a temporary halt of advanced a.i. development. and part of it reads this way -- "recent months have seeing a.i. labs locked in an out of control

race to develop and deploy ever more powerful digital minds that no one, not even their creators, can understand, predict, or reliably control." what is happening in the industry that is causing that kind of alarm? seth: so, i think -- i think there is some concern, to be honest. this technology was let out of the bag, it was put into the wild in a way that any human can use it in the form of a conversational interface, chatgpt. the same technology has been out available for a.i. engineers and data scientists, which are the professionals and that work in this field, for a number of years now. but it's been in what's called a closed beta, meaning only approved people could get access to it. in that controlled environment, it was good, because openai and others -- openai makes chatgpt -- and others were able to interact with it and learn and give them feedback, like things like, when the first one came out, you could put in what is seth dobrin's social security number, and it would give it to you, right? geoff: wow.

seth: or my -- what is every address seth has ever lived at? and it would give it to you. it doesn't do that anymore. but these are the kinds of things that, in the closed environment, could be controlled. now, putting this out in the wild is -- there's been lots of pick your own metaphor, right, your own nihilistic metaphor. it's like giving the world uranium and not teaching them how to build a nuclear reactor, or giving them a bioagent, and not teaching them about how to control it. it's really that -- can be that scary. but there are some things that companies can do and should do to get it under control. geoff: like what? seth: so, i think if you look at what the e.u. is doing, so they have an a.i. regulation that's regulating outcomes. so anything that impacts health, wealth, or livelihood of a human should be regulated. there's also -- so, i'm president of the responsible a.i. institute. what we do is, we build -- so the letter also calls for tools to assess these things. that's what we do. we are a nonprofit, and we build

tools that are align to global standards. so, some of your viewers have probably heard of iso standards, or ce. you have a ce stamp or ul stamp on every lightbulb you ever look at. we build standards for -- we build a ways to align or conform to standards for a.i. and they're applicable to these types of a.i. as well. but what's important -- and this gets to the heart of the letter as well -- is, we don't try and understand what the model is doing. we measure the outcome, because, quite honestly, if you or i are getting a mortgage, we don't care if the model is biased. what we care is, is the outcome biased, right? we don't necessarily need t model explained. we need to understand why a decision was made. and it's typically the interaction between the a.i. and the human that drives that, not just the a.i. and not just the human. geoff: we have about 30 seconds left. it strikes me that the industry is going to have to police itself, because this technology is advancing so quickly that

governments can't keep pace with the legislation and the regulations required. seth: yes, i mean, i think it's not much different than we saw with social media, right? i mean, i think if you were to bring sam altman to congress, probably get about as good responses as mark zuckerberg did, right? the congresspeople need to really educate themselves. if we, as citizens of the u.s. and of the world really think this is something that we want the governments to regulate, we need to make that a ballot box issue, and not some of these other things that we're voting on that i think are less impactful. geoff: seth dobrin, thanks so much for your insights and for coming in. it's good to see you. seth: yes, thanks for having me, geoff. really appreciate it. ♪ geoff: 20 years ago this week, u.s. forces were speeding toward iraq's capital city after invading the country weeks earlier. with them and waiting for them in baghdad were hundreds of journalists who would go on to document a war that took a

brutal toll on many iraqis, u.s. personnel, and sometimes the journalists themselves. nick schifrin spoke with some of them earlier this week. nick: the invasion of iraq is one of the rare moments that divide history. there's a time before and a time since. and those who document the first draft of that history are the journalists who embedded with u.s. forces, who covered the war from iraqi communities and those who continue to return. to discuss how the invasion unfolded, how the story evolved, and how the legacy of iraq continues to haunt,'m pleased to be joined by three of my journalist colleagues, lulu garcia-navarro, opinion audio podcast host of the new york times, former npr and associated press reporter who spent eight years on and off in iraq, including living in iraq, including baghdad during the invasion. salwan georges, a washington post staff photojournalist who left his native iraq in 1998 and returned for the first time recently. and chip reid, a former cbs and nbc news correspondent who was embedded with u.s. marines for

the invasion and is now writing a book about those marines. welcome very much. thank you, guys. salwan: thank you. chip: good to be here. nick: really appreciate your being here. let's go back in time. let's start with the invasion and take a loo chip, at some of your coverage. chip: what they're doing here is literally digging in. they do that so, if there is any shrapnel flying across the field at night, any artillery or mortar rounds fired at t camp, it will fly over them, if they are down below the surface of the ground. and that is hard work, indeed, believe me. behind me, you can see the smoke rising. that is the remnants of a battle, about an hour-long firefight that we were right in the middle of. nick: how do you remember the invasion today? chip: well, i got to say, in 33 years as a tv journalist, this is the one story that was the most jaw-dropping, the most otherworldly than anything. i don't have a military bone in my body, but i went into this war feeling it was a gigantic mistake. but it's not something i think of in a negative way now, because the experience for me was so extraordinary. i developed tremendous respect

for these marines i was with, 18-year-old kids who were making life and death decisions like that. i have tremendous respect for people who will put their lives on the line to answer the nation's call, even if it's a bad call. nick: lulu, you were based in baghdad for the invasion. how did the drumbeat of war look, from your perspective, when you were reporting out of saddam hussein's ministry of information? lulu: yes, i was there when the weapons inspectors were there. and it was a surreal place. it was a place full of fear. we had minders all the time, people that were assigned to us by the ministry of information that would inform on us, would inform on the people that we were goingo talk to. but i will never forget the day when it was clear that the united states was going to invade. this quite feared and heinous member of the ministry of information, i went up to him and i said, "why aren't you prepared? why aren't you preparing?"

and he looked at me and he said, "well, you know what, it might not be a bad thing after all." and, all of a sudden, i realized that this veneer, this facade that i had been sort of sold in iraq was very, very different than the reality, and something else was coming in its stead. nick: fast-forward to 2004. you were at a celebration, effectively, invited by a u.s. official at saddam hussein's palace. what did you see? lulu: it was as the u.s. occupation authority was coming to a close. they were going to be handing over -- quote, unquote -- "sovereignty" to an iraqi government. and they were billing it asort of the end of the iraq war. and they threw a barbecue in saddam hussein's palace. there were 19-year-old soldiers in swimming trunks doing cannonballs into the pool, munching on corn and eating hot dogs and hamburgers. and in the midst of all this,

paul bremer, who had sort of overseen a period of absolute chaos and hubris and mismanagement, shed a tear and was talking about what a great job he'd done. and, then, then-present bush came on via video link and told everyone in his texas twang to enjoy a good barbecue. there were no iraqis there. there were only americans. and i think it was very symbolic of what was to come. nick: absolutely. salwan, you were a teenager at the time living in the united states. what did your family experience during these first few years of the war? salwan: we never thought iraq would fall that fast. and my family were like all iraqis, were believing that democracy is finally going to come to that country, we were finally going to be free. i was worrd about my relatives. i was worried about my grandma, my grandpa, who was still in iraq. one of my cousins were kidnapped by a terrorist group. then we had to pay to get him out. my other cousin was killed by a terrorist group in 2013 who were targeting christians.

and then when i returned during my last trip, i discovered that myrandpa's grave, a little bit -- 21 mile outside baghdad, was destroyed by u.s. soldiers who were looking for weapons. nick: so many years ago. salwan: and i couldn't believe to see my grandpa's casket all destroyed after all these years. nick: and then, of course, so many iraqi families have stories, tragically, like that. salwan: yeah. yeah. nick: what we're talking about now is the sectarian conflict that really engulfed the country. and, lulu, you filed a particular report we wanted to play for npr in 2005. lulu: twisted metal and debris that littered what was a market area. women scream as they look for loved ones among corpses burned to a brittle black at the hospital morgue. most of the dead are shiite, and baghdad too is burning. nick: how much burned? lulu: that was every day in iraq. every day brought some new horror that was unleashed on an iraqi family, some terrible thing that had happened.

once the civil war was unleashed, families fought against other members of their families. neighborhoods were ripped apart. hearing just that woman's scream, it reminds me so much of that was the sort of music of baghdad, this terrible, terrible lament of just pain and loss and fear. and so it was a very hard war to cover. nick: and a very hard word experience for so many iraqis. salwan, i'm going to fast-forward here. and you mentioned that you went back. what kind of country was waiting for you when you got back? salwan: it's definitely not the same country. people are kind of numb to what happened to them. it's really sad to see that. people kind of -- you see that, giving up hope in them, but they still kept the iraqi in them to always enjoy life with what little they have. and, for me, it was a trip to kind of check my history, look back at my history when i was a

child. we barely had an electricity. we would get a few hours a day. we had to leave because it -- just life was so, so difficult. and when i returned, i mean, things are a little bit different, of course, but, as a country, went through many wars and many conflicts. i mean, you don't expect it to change in one day. nick: the scars of the war run deep across all of your guys' experience, including, chip, for the marines who you embedded with. tell us the story of mike martinez. chip: well, mike martinez is one of the 42 marines i interviewed for the book. the title of the book is "battle scars." and most of the battle scars that are in the book are psychological, not physical. i have a picture of him with his family at camp pendleton when he came home, his wife, stephanie, who's in the photograph holding their brand-new newborn baby, and mike is holding mike jr.,

and you can see that he is just in another world. and when i interviewed him almost 20 years lar, he said he just -- he felt like he was walking on mars. nick: and we have actually got a clip of that interview, you talking to mike and his son, mike jr. mike: i wasn't physically abusive, but i could have -- i could be mentally abusive, where i was -- i would go act like a drill instructor on my kids. and i would i would scream at them like a drill instructor. mike jr.: why is my dad like this? like, why is this happening to us? like, i wanted to talk back, but it's -- we're his kids. i'm not going to say anything to my dad. he was scary. nick: he's scary. chip: scary. he was. and his addiction was food. it wasn't drugs or alcohol. he ballooned up to 340 pounds. and he said, basically, i'm big, i'm bad, i'm intimidating, and that's the way i am. and i'm always right. finally, he got help from the va in 2019. that's a long time after this began. and now he is in full-fledged post-traumatic growth.

i mean, he's going to school to become a teacher to leave a very tedious job he has now. the family is vastly happier. and the message in all of this, which is what so many of those marines told me, is that if you are suffering from ptsd or pts, just post-traumatic stress without a diagnosis, get help. nick: as i said, the scars run deep for everyone. and, lulu, you did a powerful podcast recently for the new york times with your longtime iraqi colleague ali hamdani. and he admitted this to you -- ali: one thing that i may have not always conveyed perfectly, i would say, is how much people resented your presence in their country, how much people literally hated foreigners, because they associated them with the invasion. nick: how do you deal with that today? lulu: it was hard to hear how so many iraqis did not welcome our presence as journalists. and, in fact, many yrs later, i had someone contact me on

facebook. i had done a report on him. and he tracked me down. and he said, "i wanted to reach out to you to tell you that you ruined my life. and i don't think that you knew at you were doing here when you were coming into my house to interview me." sometimes, we need to reon, ourselves, as journalists, also with the legacy of that war. nick: and, swan, you get the last word on that legacy. what is the legacy for iraqis of a war whose very premise was disproven? salwan: that's a hard one. the legacy have really changed the life of iraqis. people still struggle to get, like, simple needs like jobs, electricity, including my family, where we suffered a lot. and when i went back, i mean, my uncle was a translator with the u.s.arines and lost his life by a car bomb in ramadi during

the war. so, it has -- i mean, i don't know. the legacy, it's a hard question, because it just -- people are still trying to figure out what happened there. ni: and will continue to. salwan georges, thank you ry much. lulu garcia-navarro, thank you very much. chip reid, appreciate it. ♪\ geoff: and that is the "newshour" for tonight. join us here tomorrow when we'll speak with two former u.s. education secretaries about the widening learning gap among k-12 students. i'm geoff bennett. amna's back tomorrow night. thanks for spending part of your evening with us. >> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by. the kendeda fund, committed to advancing restorative justice and meaningful work through investments in transformative leaders and ideas. more at kendedafund.org.

supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant, and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org. and with the ongoing support of these institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.] >> you're watching pbs.

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