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tv   BBC News Outside Source  PBS  April 20, 2023 5:00pm-5:30pm PDT

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♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advir tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned. brook: these are people who are trying to change the world. startups have this energy that energizes me. i'm thriving by helping others everyday. people who know, know bdo.
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narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. and by contributions to this pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. announcer: and now, "bbc news". >> hello, i'm christ. this is "the context." >> i don't recognize the characteristics that characterize the behavior. >> were they informal? >> there is a formal complaint process, and people should avail themselves of that. >> we were told at half past 11:00 by number 10 that he had it and had it for a bit at that point. this is proving quite
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complicated. >> the deputy prime minister knows firsthand the misery caused by folks and their behavior. can i ask him -- under his new antisocial behavior, does he think more police will be brought to justice? ♪ christian: hello, welcome to the program. all eyes on downing street, but we will have to wait. the opposition tonight accusing rishi sunak of dinner and delay after the pm decided he needed more time to consider those bullying allegations into his deputy, dominic raab. we will get into that throughout the evening. also tonight, changes to the uk's new illegal immigration bill that will give the home secretary power to ignore european judges. and we will talk ai -- are we
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ready for it? nobody seems sure what the guardrails could or should look like -- can it be done on a piecemeal basis or do we need a global response to the advances that are coming? and saturday is earth day -- we will look into an industry that you might not associate with the race to net 0 -- formula one. we will speak to those who are targeting zero emissions by 2030. and we start with the news from downing street. the bbc understands rishi sunak will not make any decisions today on the bullying allegations made against dominic raab. mr. sunak is carefully considering a report, which takes in eight formal complaints, all of which mr. raab strenuously denies. let's speak to jonathan blake with the latest. ere is reporting tonight, jonathan, that dominic raab does not think he has broken the missed -- ministerial
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code and will not resign. jonathan: this report has been some months in the making. he now has it. dominic raab now has it and the prime minister has a very significant decision to make -- does he, on the weight of the evidence provided in that report and the conclusions that has come to, think that dominic raab has broken the ministerial code? that's the crucial thing here, because the prime minisr is the sole arbiter of the ministerial code and the accusations levied against dominic raab from people who work with him, the ministry of justice when he was secretary of state there and the foreign ministry, are those accusations enough for the prime minister to decide that the ministerial code has been broken? rishi sunak wants to consider the findings thoroughly, and we have been told by sources close
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to mr. raab this evening that he denies he has been asked to resign, but has not spoken to the prime minister and's both men received the report. -- since both men received the report. we will find out with the prime minister's decision is tomorrow, but we will hear what opposition -- what are they saying about it? jonathan: there was no decision announced today at the earliest. opposition parties left on that and started accusing the government of unnecessary delay, really suggesting that rishi sunak is lacking the decisiveness that is needed and the leadership qualities that are needed at the moment like this. the attorney general, emily thornbury, inc. used -- accused
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sunak of unnecessary delay. >> the rest of the country is dealing with the cost-of-living crisis than worse than -- worse than it has been in generations. people cannot pay for food, heating, their housing, and the party is in chaoset again, not dealing with the priorities of the people who elected them. christian: the longer it delays, jonathan, the more the story runs and runs. but it seems to me, politically speaking, there is jeopardy in whatever he decides. jonathan: there is no easy option. rishi sunak will not want to lose one of his most loyal senior ministers. dominic raab, his deputy prime minister and justice secretary, had a crucial brief in government and was there right from the start of rishi sunak's leadership campaign last summer. he is seen as somebody on the right of the party, he was a staunch brags -- brexiteer, and is not someone rishi sunak is keen to let go likely.
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but if he does stay in government, he will face accusations that he is not strong enough to stand up to his senior ministers and going back on the promise he made on day one of the job, to lead the government with integrity, professionalism, and accountability at every level. it's a decision with consequences whatever way he goes, and not an easy one. christian: jonathan, thank you very much indeed. let's take a look at the history of this investigation. in november, at dominic raab's request, rishi sunak appointed this man, a senior employment lawyer, to examine a series of complaints made by multiple civil servants. he has experience in handling whistleblower claims and was asked to investigate these claims in confidence and report back. he interviewed the top civil servants and three government departments headed by raab, spoke to antonio romero, simon
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mcdonald, and philip rycroft. initially, there were two formal complaints made against dominic raab, but there were widespread reports that other civil servants were unhappy. all in all, 24 gave evidence and there were eight formal complaints. what does the previous prime minister say? he had worked for david cameron, theresa may, boris, and rishi sunak. it is reported that theresa may had previously warned raab about it is -- is it a wider problem within government? the last review into bullying was carried out in 2018. and over 13 respondents -- 1300 respondents said they had experienced harassment during their civil service career and nearly half said it was repeated behavior, but many failed
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to report it. 90% werconcerned there would be repercussions if they blew the whistle. joining us now, amy leva sage, and our guest from the guardian. aubrey, let me start with you. what are you hearing about the politics of this? aubrey: there is a lot weighing on rishi sunak's mind. he is stuck between a rock and a hard place, he either takes the decision to tell his deputy prime minister to resign, which we do not believe dominic raab wants to do. he says he does not think he has done anything wrong, has not broken the ministerial code. rishi sunak could try to sack him, but that opens up a big can of worms, and that's a difficult -- end to the conservative party
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problems over the last few weeks. or he chooses to stick by raab and is facing a bunch of disgruntled civil servants. we have seen some who put complaints into night and they say they are losing faith in the complaints system. no easy options for the prime minister, and downing street is not saying whether the report will come tomorrow, friday, or the end of the weekend. christian: what do you make of the way this has been handled? he demanded an independent review, but was allowed to stay in post for the 60 days -- 106 today's taken to complete it. it would be bizarre if an allegation was made in any other workplace in the country, someone was accused and faced eight accusations of bullying, whether they were maned in the role -- whether they would remain in the role wallow decision wasade -- while a decision was made?
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amy: it is an extraordinary decision, not just in any business in the land, but the ministry of justice. if there was half a number of complaints against a normal person, they would have been suspended while the investigation was carried out and they were not allowed to be in the office under the investigation of that magnitude. we would have a proper process to deal with the complaint. the issue that we've got, the complaint against ministers, all roads lead back to the prime minister. the prime minister decides whether to commit an investigation or not and will make a determination on the complaint in this case, and will decide it is a breach of the ministerial code. he is acng as judge and jury there, and not even reaching out to his new independent advisor for advice on this case.
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he has made a decision to not do that and continue with solely being his decision. what we have seen today has been agonizing for the people who have put in complaints. this is always an incredibly difficult decision for people to make -- christian: on that point, amy, the people who presumably are your members who have made these complaints, they are named in the report and dominic raab is still there, which makes life difficult for them, correct? amy: absolutely. there is a massive power imbalance there, and you show people with immense bravery who have come forward, who have waited for years in some cases to put in a formal complaint, and they have had this agonizing day of this rolling news cycle where the prime minister has indicated that he is going to give a decision today and then
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changed his mind at the last minute. we have no idea why he has made that last-minute decision, and most civil servants think we will see history repeat itself, as we did with boris johnson, where he sat on the report for six months and then fudged the findings and kept the home secretary in place. there will be a real problem for civil servants, particularly the ones working in the ministry of justice, particularly ones who have put in those complaints, because the complaint -- rishi sunak should be assessing this complaint by solid evidence and there should be no political considerations being made. christian: ok. let me pick that up with aubrey. let me say, you mentioned the pretty patel case, and they did find that priti patel's behavior did meet the condition of bullying. but they did ignore the findings
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and boris johnson decided that priti patel did not reach the code. she stayed and he went. i wonder if that sow -- overshadows what's going on here. the fallout from that case, whether it hangs heavy -- and might give dominic raab the benefit of the doubt, but can't because of what has previously happened. aubrey: it might certainly have an impact on the trustworthiness and reliability civil servants have placed in being able to voictheir concerns, both at an informal level and a formal level as well. if you remember, wn the allegations about dominic raab first surfaced, there had not been any formal colaints submitted. that's in part due to the people we have spoken to, their lack of faith in the system. they are thinking, even if i do go out on a limb and complain about my minister, put a black mark against my name and have
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this wreath the rest of my career in civil service, it could end up happening where the minister is found against, an independent advisor found there has been bullying, but nothing will happen to them. they will get nothing more than a slap on the wrist. christian: let me play the role of devils advocate for a second. people recognize that politics is a tough sport. giving duff advice or the apartment is -- department is failing, things get tough for the minister -- you can understand why there are high stress levels in some of these offices. he is characterized as being someone who demands and expects high standards. is there room for that in modern-day politics? aubrey: there certainly is. westminster is a difficult place, because in the house of commons, mps are getting used
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two bravado and constant political attacks. then they cross the road in westminster into whitehall and go to their offices, and the working environment is very different and they are expected to treat their staff and officials with respect. i would say, most of the civil servants tha you speak tot speak very highly of their ministers. but they need to acknowledge, in their words, politics is a bit of a contact sport. people are working in high-pressure environments and if you think about the foreign office, where dominic raab was during the rise of the taliban, the quick conversations that must have had to happen then, i am sure not everybody there was acting in exactly the way they would like. but there was pressure and they were trying to work quickly, communicating instructions may be more bluntly then they would have liked to an alternative
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times. -- in alternative times. but most officials still expect a baseline level of respect. this is not about a particular heated moment or week, this is about two dozen complaints coming forward from several departments over multiple years. there is something going on here that transcends one incident or a person saying something off-the-cuff that they did not mean to and can later get away with apologizing for. christian: well, that is up to rishi sunak. he stands as judge and jury. we wait for the decision. think you very much for being with us. around the world and across the u.k., this is bbc news. let's get some of the stories making headlines today. john caldwell, the sea -- senior northern ireland detective who was shot multiple times has been discharged from
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hospital. the u.k. business lobby group, the cbi, says it is working with police after passing on fresh information after what it calls a serious criminal offense. the city of lemon force is already investigating a separate claim that a woman was raped at a work party in 2019. the environmental group, just stopped oil, said it will continue to disrupt cultural and sporting events and may target the london marathon on sunday. another group, extinction rebellion, says they will help guard the event. and a tv entertainer who died last month at the age of 67 was laid to rest following a private service inent. you are live with bbc news. space x's starship, the most
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powerful rocket ever built, took off from the coast of south texas this morning. the rocket exploded midair shortly after liftoff. space x had previously cautioned that the success chances were low and the aim of the test flight was to gather data. the first part went well, but the second part, not so much. it cleared the launch and gathered speed as it climbed precipitously towards space, but started to spin before bursting into flames. it appears that it failed to separate, the two sections of the rocket were able to come apart, which possibly caused the spacecraft to fail. let's get the expert view from jonathan amos, who is with us. that was pretty spectacular, the best firework i have seen this year, but an expensive one. why do they see it as a success? jonathan: i am out of a job,
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christian. you have described it very well. [laughter] jonathan: you -- i need to retire, i think. it cleared the launchpad, which was the absolute basics, which it had to achieve on the day, and climbed skyward. it got to about 39 kilometers and then started to lose altitude and come back down. it was tumbling and you correctly stated it did not separate as it was supposed to. all rockets have a flight termination system, and they are a series of charges that run down the side of the vehicle. if the computers see that the rocket is not going in the right direction or there is someone on the ground, they can initiate those charges and destroy the vehicle, and that's what happened. that's what the big bang was all about.
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space x, this is their ethos. the test early and test often. they are not afraid to break things. that's what they have done throughout the history of this company and intend to carry on that way. it has been very successful for them. their falcon 9 rocket is now the dominant rocket out there and nobody comes clear to them. it launches every four days and puts up 80% of all satellites -- you cannot argue with their approach. they did not complete the flight plan today, but actually, i think they will be pretty pleased with how far they got. christian: you told me the other day, there were 33 engines underneath it. i was watching very closely as a result of what you told me. underneath it, i was trying to count them, but you can see not all the engines are lit. i think some of them failed. what i be right? -- would i be right? jonathan: absolutely.
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33 engines -- count the dots there and i reckon 6 -- tv -- either the engines were shut down deliberately, because the computers said shut down, something's not right, or the rocket launched with one or two off, but they seem to have st some midflight as well. they need to get reliability on those raptor engines, as they are called, if they are to proceed with this project. maybe that is a thing that will concn the most after this flight, that they had so many of those engines fail within the first couple of minutes of the flight. we will have to see. it's dangerous, right? if you have a flameout like that, you might get a cascade, where it spreads right across the ring and before you know it, you've got another -- what's the
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phrase they use? rapid unscheduled disassembly, which means blown up. [laughter] christian: rud, rud. i will play the role of your dr. watson to figure out what went wrong with it, but it was something to do with that. let's talk about what they learned from it. we have seen a tweet from bill nelson, the administrator at nasa, who seems quite pleased with what they were doing. as we say, they have to put this into some perspective -- there were some people who did not think it would clear the platform. jonathan: elon musk was pretty worried about that too. they have another one in the shed -- literally, in the shed behind the launch complex here, and a few others as well that are nearing cometion. i was looking at pictures afterward of the launch complex itself, the pad -- normally big
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rockets, they go with what is called a deluge system. they flood the launchpad with water to dampen the vibrations, the acoustic shock, all the rest of it. but this system, they have not got one there yet. they were going to put one in, and there's a lot of damage to the concrete surfaces around this pad that they will have to repair. they have to do something -- you know, this is 70 megan newton -- meganewtons, 100 concorde airliners on the tarmac at heathrow trying to take off at the same time. any water in the concrete will be instantly superheated and the concrete will just go bang. it will be chucked out in all directions. that does appear to have happened today, so that will
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have to be addressed. but nasa will be quite pleased, i think. they are seeing musk make progress, and will want to see by the end of the year that he has flown at least another two of these, i think, and that he does make orbit as welwith the top half of the ship. christian: on that issue, jonathan, my editor was sitting with me with this afternoon -- me this afternoon when we saw this go up -- musk is up there with the rockefellers and brunels. when you look at what he has done with tesla, space x, paypal and now this, it is remarkable what that man has achieved. jonathan: you get characters like this through history, right? what they do, they change the nature of the conversation. everybody over there has been talking a particular way for a good number of years, and then somebody comes along and says, no, no.
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let's do it this way. everybody turns around and goes, oh yeah, actually. that is a good idea. steve jobs is another example of someone who came in and changed the nature of the conversation. the evidence of that now is in our pockets, the smartphone, the iphone, whatever. yes, he has done that. he is a disruptor. there is no question about that. he has changed attitudes to electric cars, completely. if he hadn't done what he and his associates have done at tesla, the car market would still be looking like it did 20, 30 years ago. it has changed. he has completely upended the rocket industry. completely. we have the situation now in europe where we are having to go to elon musk and say, can you launch our most important satellites for us? at the moment, we can't do it.
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so yeah, it's a bit of a sorry state of affairs here in europe in terms of rocketry. christian: jonathan, you and i need a scheduled disassembly, because we are going to break, but thank you for your expertise. we will look out for the next launch and hopefully learn more. jonathan narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: financial services firm, raymond james. man: bdo. accountants and advisors. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. and by contributions to this pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ ♪ narrator: you're watching pbs.
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♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: pediatric surgeo volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned. brook: these are people who are trying to change the world. startups have this energy that energizes me. i'm thriving by helping others everyy. people who know, know bdo.

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