♪ amna: good evening. i'm amna nawaz. geoff: and i'm geoff bennett. on "the newshour" tonight... the latest from the southern border as the biden administration's new asylum policies take effect, complicating migration and sparking legal challenges. amna: a marine veteran is charged with manslaughter in the chokehold death of a mentally ill man on the new york city subway. geoff: and... turkey prepares to vote in the country's most consequential election in a generation, with president erdogan struggling to maintain his grip on power. >> after being in power for 20 years, he has become a very polarizing figure. and that's why i think he's facing such a huge challenge in the upcoming vote. ♪

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like you. thank you. geoff: welcome to "the newshour." the u.s./mexico border remained mostly calm today, just hours after the expiration of title 42, the pandemic-era border restrictions that immediately expelled migrants. amna: homeland security officials said there was not a "substantial increase" in immigration across the border today. the biden administration is also implementing new rules that reject asylum seekers who did not apply online or who traveled through another country. that's being challenged in court but the confusion for those crossing the border remains. cindy ramirez covers immigration and the border for "el paso matters" and joins us from the border city tonight. welcome and thank you for joining us. a lot of anticipation about what it would look like when title 42 ended. tell us what you are seeing on the ground in el paso today.

cindy: a little bit anticlimtic. certainly there were a lot of unknowns, whether it would be chaotic, but as you noted, it was relatively calm and quiet overnight and into this morning and remains so as of right now. the area of the border itself, the international bridge where the migrants are to turn themselves in if they want to apply for asylum starting today, everything has been relatively quiet. amna: we've seen some numbers taking upwards. border officials said some 10,000 people apprehended on average over the last few days. that's a very high number. as it was ending, some journalists from reuters spoke to people crossing the border overnight. this was in yuma, arizona last night. >> they have no choice.

they have no choice. they were after my life. people were after me. >> it has been crazy but i think it will be better. i hope. that's why i am here, i am here with hope and faith. >> i have come here for a future where i can work and study at the same time and have my own family in american land. amna: the folks we heard from came from cameroon, ghana and peru. i know you are overseeing reporters. give us a sense of who is arriving right now, is it families, single adults? cindy: the majority have been single adult males, mostly from

venezuela. we've seen a good number of families, women traveling on their own or in groups of other women. we do see people from guatemala. some from cuba. a little bit mixed. certainly the majority are single men from venezuela. amna: the asylum rule the biden administration said that you cannot claim asylum without going through certain channels good cindy: we saw about 1000 600 migrants across the border turn themselves into border control to meet the deadline of title 42 so they would not arrive under title eight, if they cross without turning themselves into border patrol at points of

entry. it means there will be a lot more uncertainty among migrants who are in war as -- juarez in mexico. there's been a lot of confusion and misinformation, worry about the changing rules and laws and policies that have come into play. certainly a lot of confusion among them and what to do next. amna: title it was the immigration standard at the border before title 42 went into place. we've heard from the biden administration and secretory may argus, they've been opening legal pathways even as they impose other restrictions at the border. from the folks you've talked to, has anyone been able to access those legal pathways? cindy: a few of them have had a little luck with the phone app and they've been able to make

some appointments but the majority have not been able to access that. the vast majority of the migrants we have seen in our community had already left several countries and traveled here, sometimes six months ago, sometimes four weeks ago when they left their home countries a majority also don't really have an interest -- and actually have a fear of remaining in mexico. there have been clashes between some law enforcement and migrants in mexico. as you may know as well, a deadly migrant detention fire killed 40 people in juarez. amna: we have about 30 seconds left. there are some 65,000 people waiting in northern mexico potentially to cross. you said it is crowded but calm. what you expect in the days and

weeks ahead? cindy: the big thing for communities like el paso, those communities that have been -- when those that have been taken into custody are released, the shelter capacity will be an issue. amna: cindy ramirez joining us from el paso, texas. thank you. cindy: thank you. ♪ geoff: in the day's other headlines -- the u.s. marine veteran who put a fellow passenger in a fatal chokehold on a new york city subway was charged with second degree manslaughter today. daniel penny was freed pending trial after being released on $100,000 bond. he insists he acted in self-defense. the family of the victim, jordan neely, said he had a history of mental illness and was not a threat. clashes between israel and

islamic jihad raged for a fourth straight day. palestinian militants launched a barrage of rockets toward jerusalem. israel later stepped up its airstrikes, bombing targets in gaza and killing a top islamic jihad leader and his aide. since tuesday, the fighting has claimed the lives of 33 palestinians in gaza, and one man in israel. in sudan, airstrikes rocked the capital khartoum today, as another truce between the country's warring generals appeared to collapse. late thursday, saudi arabian state television aired video of the two factions signing a deal promising safe passage to fleeing civilians. but today in port sudan, some remained skeptical. youssef: this deal doesn't represent us in any way -- it was announced to please the warring sides. the sudanese people have nothing to do with this deal because it does not concern them. geoff: at least 600 people have died since violence first broke out nearly a month ago.

the u.n. estimates around 200,000 people have fled to neighboring countries. a high court in pakistan granted former prime minister imran khan a two-week reprieve from arrest, after days of deadly protests. the opposition leader left a courtroom today surrounded by security and media. he claims the corruption charges leveled against him are made up. back in this country -- twitter will soon have new leadership, once again. elon musk named linda yaccarino as his successor. the nbc universal advertising executive will take her new post in about six weeks. musk acquired twitter last october. the tesla billionaire will now serve as twitter's executive chairman and chief technology officer. the congressional budget office says the u.s. faces a "significant risk of running out of cash within the first two weeks of june without a debt limit increase." the warning reinforced treasury secretary janet yellen's estimate of when a possible default could occur. it comes as the white house and congressional leaders postponed a meeting planned for today to

break the impasse. they'll now meet early next week. concerns about the u.s. economy pushed stocks lower on wall street today. the dow jones industrial average lost 9 points to close at 33,300. the nasdaq fell 44 points. the s&p 500 slipped 6. and, a passing to note -- journalist hodding carter iii died thursday at his home in chapel hill, north carolina. he was the state department spokesman under former president jimmy carter -- no relation -- and he briefed the country throughout the iran hostage crisis. a former newspaperman who championed civil rights, he often appeared on a number of news programs, including this one. hodding carter was 88 years old. still to come on "the newshour"... the public health questions that remain as the official covid emergency comes to an end... david brooks and jonathan capehart weigh in on the week's political headlines... and tom hanks talks about his newest credit -- as a novelist. ♪ >> this is "the pbs newshour"

from weta studios in washington, and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. geoff: we return now to the death of jordan neely on the new york city subway last week. daniel penny, the former marine accused of putting neely in a chokehold for several minutes before he died, surrendered to police today and was released on bond. witnesses say on may 1, neely got on the train acting erratically. they say he was shouting at passengers, but there are no reports that he physically attacked anyone. then, video shows penny wrapping his arms around neely's neck, forcing him to the ground. witnesses say he held him there until neely stopped breathing. daniel penny's attorney spoke to reporters today outside the police station. mr. kenniff: this morning daniel penny surrendered at the 5th precinct at the request of the district attorney's office. he did so voluntarily and with the sort of dignity and

integrity that is characteristic of his history of service to this grateful nation. geoff: at a separate news conference, the family of jordan neely said he had a history of mental illness and posed no threat. they demanded the charges be raised from manslaughter to murder. mr. edwards: daniel penny chose, intentionally chose, a technique to use that is designed to cut off air. that's what he chose. and he chose to continue to hold that chokehold minute after minute, second after second, until there was no life left in jordan neely. geoff: the killing touched off widespread protests in new york over policing and a lack of support from the city for those who are homeless and mentally ill. to unpack all this, i'm joined by errol louis -- he hosts inside city hall on new york 1 and is a columnist for new york magazine. it is good to have you here. it took two weeks for the manhattan d.a. to bring charges

in this case. was that because the investigation took that long, or was this a response to two weeks of public pressure? errol: it's always hard to say whether public pressure makes a difference but i can tell you for sure the district attorney's office had a lot of work to do in this investigation. that video is compelling, a compelling piece of evidence, but not the only piece of evidence. they try to round up every person they could find on that subway car and tried to interview them and get all kinds of information into evidence and put it together before making a decision about whether or not to move forward. it wasn't entirely clear that a crime had been committed or who had done it or what the circumstances were. in some ways they are moving at a fast clip under the circumstances. geoff: this case brings new focus to issues of race and crime and mental illness and homelessness. there are people who say daniel

penny was a good samaritan who jumped into action when jordan neely was shouting about he was hungry and tired and did not want to live anymore and did not care if you went to jail. others say this case represents the worst form of vigilantism. how is this dividing the city? errol: it's along those lines. take the term vigilantism, it's being thrown around. a vigilante is someone who stops a crime. but throwing your jacket down on a train and yelling is not a crime. saying you are hungry and despairing, thirsty, you don't care what happens to you, that is not a crime either. you could offer them in a sandwich or a couple of dollars. you don't necessarily have to throw him in a choke hold. that's the kind of conversation happening in new york right now. what do we owe to our neighbors, those among us in distress who may have an addiction problem or

a mental health or emotional disability? do we owe the more than just physical force and treating them like an outcast or criminal or can we do better? geoff: on that point, you wrote a column for new york magazine with a headline that stopped me in my tracks. it was "toward a neely was already dead." human he was socially dead. to be black, homeless and destitute, he was an outcast. tell me more about that and what it says about the cities --

city's social safety net. errol: a long time ago i took a course with a man named orlando patterson who did a masterful work called slavery and social death. he surveyed societies across millennia across the world. what he came up with was this concept of social death. it reminded me of how we treat some people in our own modern society. the concept has not gone away. certain people are just considered outside the circle of care and concern, socially dead. what happens to them is of rdon neely --jordan neely,ewehe who is in distress. there was some graffiti scribbled near where he died said who killed jordan neely? and in some ways it is all of us. geoff: are there any results? errol: the number of cops was doubled and i think tripled. a lot of overtime is being spent and a lot of cops are in the subways. the number of arrests has more than doubled, the number of crimes have plummeted so that response has yielded results. what it has not done is dealt with people in need, who are

perhaps disorderly, perhaps homeless. you cannot arrest somebody, you cannot arrest your way out of those problems. that doesn't get that person an apartment or addicted -- addiction treatment or whatever assistance they might need and that has been the stubborn remnants of a policing approach that some people have condemned as the wrong tool for the current situation. you certainly don't want pickpockets and muggers running around in the subway plying their trade but you also don't necessarily want to apply an anti-crime policing approach to people who need help and jordan neely is an exam love that. he spent -- an example of that. he spent six months in rikers island, he came out and we have this tragedy. geoff: what happens next in this case? errol: mr. --

geoff: penny? errol: i'm sorry. mr. penny will be back in court in july. he's free on bond right now, he cannot leave the state, he has surrendered his passport. an indictment will likely follow. when he comes back in july, he will have received a lot of information from the district attorney about evidence that's been collected, the investigation they've conducted, and they will be in a better position to assess whether he wants to change his plea, strike a deal or go to trial. those are pretty much the choices in front of him. geoff: errol lewis, thank you for being with us. errol: thank you. ♪ amna: this sunday, more than 60

million turks will cast their ballot to decide the country's next president. turkey is a nato member, part of the g20, and for two decades has been led by reccep tayyip erdogan. the opposition calls him authoritarian. he calls them terrorists. and as nick schifrin reports, erdogan faces his toughest battle yet in an election that could have major implications for turkey, and its allies. nick: in the city that propelled him to power three decades ago, the man dubbed turkey's new sultan unleashed new insults. turkish president reccep tayyip erdogan last weekend branded his opponent pro-lgbt, a supporter of terrorism, and a drunkard. >> mr. kemal, drink as much as you want. you can drink a full keg, but even that will not make you better. my nation will not give the floor to an alcoholic.

nick: mr. kemal is opposition candidate, who focuses on kitchen table issues from his kitchen table. >> this is the real agenda of the people, as they all know that when i come to power, there will be democracy, and your purchasing power will increase. nick: he has pressed that message at his own massive rallies. and a unified opposition of a half a dozen parties poses the greatest electoral threat that erdogan has ever faced. >> i know it's a cliche for the politicians to say that the upcoming elections are existential, but in turkey's case, it's actually true. nick: gonul tol is the founding director of the middle east institute's turkey program, and the author of erdogan's war. >> if he wins another term, i think turkey will degenerate further into an authoritarian regime. if the opposition wins, however, i think turkish democracy will have a shot. nick: voters' number one issue has been sticker shock. today inflation is more than 40 percent, down from 85 percent last november.

>> they've said inflation is 85% but i don't think it is 85%. it feels around 250%-300%. nick: 31 year old melike saka told us she feels the cost of living crisis as consumer and seller. she works at a deli that's a family affair. that's her father. they've never witnessed consumers buying less, or profits dropping faster. >> the quantities that we sold have decreased. i can say our sales have decreased by half. nick: turkey's economic pain runs deep, but analysts say erdogan's unorthodox prescription of slashing interest rates made the country sicker. >> the country's faltering economy and the cost of living crisis has been high on the voters agenda. and these economic troubles are largely of president erdogan's own making. and the second problem for voters is this growing repression. nick: in 2013, police and the government cracked down on critics after massive

anti-government protests. in 2016, the government accused the military of a failed coup and erdogan launched a society , wide purge. 50,000 arrested. 150,000 lost their jobs or were suspended, including teachers branded terrorists, who clashed with police. and critical journalists like cumhuriyet books magazine editor turhan gunay were detained, as he told me back in 2017. what happens to people in turkey right now if they oppose the government? >> i can only answer this question through my own experience, and that is: you are thrown into jail. the government has no tolerance for the slightest criticism. nick: and the 2018 election created a new presidential system that increased erdogan's powers. >> from now on, it's time for the president and the parliament to do more work. nick: but that portrayal of himself crumbled in february's

earthquake. countless buildings collapsed. at least 50,000 people died. survivors criticized the government for a slow response, and for favoring builders who cut corners. >> he promised that if the country switched to a presidential system that would grant him unprecedented powers, that he would be able to solve the country's pressing problems in a more efficient way. and on the day of the earthquake, we saw that that was not the case. nick: it was another mega quake in that helped propel him to 1999 power. he became prime minister in 2003 thanks to anger against the secular, political elite. he was the alternative -- a religious, working-class outsider who presented himself a progressive ally of the west, and helped lead the country to economic growth. but today erdogan's charisma and populism has divided society. >> he has become a very polarizing figure. and that's why i think he's facing such a huge challenge in

the upcoming vote, because he always relied on others, relied on alliances to secure a majority, and for the first time in nearly two decades, he's struggling to find allies. nick: he's leaned on strongmen including russian president vladimir putin for economic, political, and military support. an erdogan loss could weaken that partnership. and the opposition fears an erdogan loss could also lead to violence. on sunday a leading opposition figure's bus was pelted with stones, and erdogan's threatened to take to the streets. today, kilicdaroglu aides said he campaigned with a bulletproof vest, and armed guards. he and his wife have made a heart their symbol. and he hopes to put an end to what he calls 20 years of one man rule. for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schifrin. ♪

geoff: after more than 3 years, the covid-19 public health emergency has ended. thanks to vaccines, testing and treatment, we are in a much better place and deaths are at their lowest level since march 2020. but concerns over how the federal government will respond to new variants or even a serious new epidemic remain. william brangham has our look. william: more than 1.1 million americans have died of covid since the pandemic began three years ago. for those who lost loved ones early on, this moment where the country has declared an end of the public health emergency, is a complicated time. tracy: i am the wife and widow of a husband who passed away from covid september 23, 2020. he died of something he should not have died of. i know people think it is over but it is not. going out there in the public

and being out there has scared me so much. because what he went through, i was not there when he passed away, i cannot be there. that was the beginning of the pandemic. i could not touch him. i could not say goodbye. i am still dealing with it. no timeframe on death for someone you love. i live with this everyday. i had to go to therapy because of the death of my husband. i live with this everyday and they don't get it. some people that it has not affected them, they go on with everyday life because they think they are invincible but they are not. it could happen to any of us. max: my father is max osceola junior, we are a member of the

seminole county of florida. he accomplished a lot for us. my father passed away roughly two years ago, october, at the beginning of covid. my mother was with my father for 50 years, they were high school sweethearts. their life was intertwined in a way that was unimaginable. that's what it is about, understanding life and moving forward in the sense of how can we honor my father? i think society has already opened up in a sense and the government is reacting to that. we are better prepared for other emergencies. covid is not going away. the genie is out of the bottle. i'm sure in the future there will be another outbreak and hopefully we respond accordingly. my family has been able to honor my father, we have been able to have a little more closure. we are very fortunate for the father we had. there was a lifetime of love.

william: many of the federal programs set up in response to the pandemic are now ending with the expiration of the emergency order. so where does that leave us? for a closer look at that, we are joined again by dr. jennifer nuzzo. professor of epidemiology and director of the pandemic center at brown university school of public health. great to have you back on the newshour. we have been talking on and off for three years of this pandemic , through some of the worst periods of time, and now at the light that seems to be at the end of the tunnel. where'd you see this moment we are at right now? dr. nuzzo: i think as you said, it is a complicated time. covid, the acute emergency is over, the emergency declaration is over but the tolls of covid, including the loss of life continue. in my view, those tolls remain unacceptably high and really

point to the need for continuing to work to reduce those tolls and also, crucially, to make sure we are never again left as vulnerable to a virus as this one made us. william: to that point, the virus is still with us. do you think we have the right eyes on this situation right now? are we doing enough monitoring so that if a new variant emerges if cases were to tick up again, , we would be able to see it in time? dr. nuzzo: i'm quite worried about our abilities to pick up future emergencies. that may include a future covid variant, but it probably also includes other viruses that we have yet to discover that could emerge and calls pandemic threats. much of that progress is at risk now with the end of the emergency. we are scaling back the types of data that we're collecting, and that generally gives us less insights into what's going on with covid. but it also means that we will have less ability to pick up new pandemic threats. and so the point that i really want to make clear is that while

the acute covid emergency has ended, our vulnerability to events like covid has not changed unless we decide to take action to make it change. that requires improving our data along with a lot of other things that we still have yet to do. william: as you well know, there is this ongoing fight in congress over some of the things that you are describing here. what do you think are the key priorities that we ought to be focused on, even as we "wind down" the end of the pandemic? dr. nuzzo: first of all the fact , that we are having fights over pandemic preparedness at this point after witnessing the loss of a million americans is to me unfathomable. i just don't know how much more we need to endure in order to make the investment in preparedness worth it. but in terms of what we should be doing with the resources that we have, is first of all, we have to be fixing our data. you know, for most of the pandemic, we were just trying to triangulate our way to the truth. we had huge blind spots and understanding what was happening with covid, who was being

affected worse by it. what sorts of activities and places were driving transmission. how covid was affecting us. we didn't have a complete picture in all communities. that was one big problem, but also we're not done in terms of treating covid and also thinking about how to make ourselves less vulnerable to severe illness from other respiratory threats. so one thing i would really like to see our -- are new vaccines that produced longer lasting immunity and possibly prevent infection. that would be great. not sure if that's scientifically possible, but absolutely worth the investment in the science. making sure that we have the best possible treatments that we can not just for covid but thinking about future infections. and then also, crucially, we need to figure out what sorts of other measures we want to put into place in our communities to reduce our vulnerability, not just to this virus and other viruses that we know continue to threaten us year in and year to like influenza and rsv. we had big problems with that in the fall.

but thinking ahead to future threats. it is possible to make investments now. to put into place a bolstered infrastructure and plans that can be ready to snap into place such that when the next pandemic threat arises, we don't have to have our lives upended in the way that covid did. we have seen progress being made in terms of tackling other public health threats. i'd like to think of public health threats like the way we think about other recurring hazards like fires. if we reduce our social vulnerabilities, we reduce our community wide vulnerabilities to these threats. we can go about our lives largely not thinking about them, but with enhanced safety against them. william: on the issue of long covid, we know there are still millions of people suffering with that and on some level of , the end of the emergency declaration doesn't mean much to them because they are still and continue to suffer. do you think we're doing enough research to understand what is happening with that ailment and how to help those people? dr. nuzzo: this is something that i think we have not done right by these patients. these patients are suffering

quite a bit and they haven't gotten the kind of resources they need to help them. i want to stress not just about covid. it is possible that what we are seeing in patients who are affected by covid could be something that we could experience with other infectious diseases. so while the case numbers of covid maybe diminishing, the need to understand how viruses can affect us in the long term. it's an important point that we should be investigating so that we don't have x y and z when we think of other viruses that we may encounter or experience large outbreaks. william: dr. jennifer nuzzo, brown university school of public health. always good to see you. thank you. ♪ amna: this week brought us several major political stories , including the end of a controversial border policy,

former president donald trump found liable for sexual assault, and ongoing negotiations over the debt ceiling. to discuss all of this we turn , to the analysis of brooks and capehart. that's new york times columnist david brooks and jonathan capehart, associate editor for the washington post. welcome. we are talking about immigration again, focus back on the u.s. southern border. david as we saw earlier, as title 42 ends, crowded but not chaotic. very high daily averages. the secretary says they continue to work within the confines of a system that has been outdated and underfunded for years. does it have to be this way? david: in our political system for sure. first, it is insane to have an immigration policy that pretends to be a health care policy or vice versa. we have to define what asylum is paired there are a lot of people

fleeing persecution, that's what the asylum bill is made for. but there are other people just seeking a better life and that is a legitimate reason to try to immigrate here. but they are trying to use the asylum system to get in and that's one of the many ways our system has broken down. you look at what has happened in europe, around the world, and in this country. donald trump would not have been president without chaos, in my view. the far right people across europe would not be doing as well without chaos at the border. mostly americans need to have a sense that somebody is controlling this thing and right now they don't. jonathan: to pick up on what david was saying, the people using the asylum system -- why? part of the reason why is the american immigration system is such a backlog through the proper channels that people are finding any and every way

possible succumb into this country. until congress gets its act together and does something, coverings of immigration reform, the last time if memory serves got anywhere near doing something was when the senate passed a bipartisan gang of eight immigration reform bill out of the senate and it stalled in the house in 2014 and we've not seen anything like that since. this is one of those situations where if washington were working properly, if the country were in a different place, this is the situation where you would have another gang of eight, gang of 12, just a congressional gang getting in a room and hashing out, how do we fix this now? this is our opportunity. instead, it doesn't seem like congress will do anything. amna: does it surprise you to see the biden administration move further right?

the fact they are being sued by progressives and conservatives about immigration policies, what does it say about this moment? jonathan: it says everything is broken. i should correct myself -- the house did pass an immigration bill but it is not going anywhere in the senate. amna: to that point, they knew the bill would be dead on arrival. david: the biden administration i think is shifting more toward an mainstream physician. you remember the primary debate in 2020, should we decriminalize the border and all of the hands went up? that's when the party was not in the mainstream because people want immigration but also control. i'm going to be on the irrational side of a tiny hint of optimism. the house passes this bill and in the senate you get kyrsten sinema and tommy tillis saying it is a starting point. then you get dick durbin, he's

saying it is hopeful. schumer is active, a lot of people suddenly are active. i guess one thing, we've been covering this and people have been trying to push immigration reform as copperheads of immigration reform. -- comprehensive immigration reform. navy we should try something more modest. there is pent up desire to do something but it looks messy. amna: the front runner on the republican side remains former president donald trump, also in the headlines. early in the week, he was found liable of sexually abusing e. j ean carroll. he also took part in a town hall where he continued to lie about the election and mocked carroll. i know you were watching this unfold, is this what we are in for? jonathan: absolutely.

i wasn't surprised. i have watched this trump rerun since june 16, 2015, when he announced his presidential campaign. what was so horrific about the town hall was the reaction of the audience.

david: we cover major figures. there are ways to cover in ways not to cover. in my view it would be disastrous if we appointed ourselves sensors or determiners of who is covered. one of the reasons donald trump is popular is people think people in our business are arrogant. it would be an arrogant move to say we are not going to cover that guy. jonathan: donald trump is popular because he scratches the very raw, emotional and ugly

itch within the american populace where if i read one more time someone saying i like donald trump because he says what we are thinking -- if that is the case, those are some really ugly thoughts. amna: i know we will be talking to this for several months. let's switch to talks of the debt ceiling. there is no end in sight but talks continue. you take that as a sign of progress? will there be a deal in time? david: i'm on the bottom end of cautiously optimistic. [laughter] they are talking, the staffs are talking, they postponed the meeting, that suggest to me they are talking. there is some agreement about at least what they will talk about. we've had dozens of debt ceiling crises -- not crises, but

where we had to raise the ceiling. recently they attached some debt reduction. every time they did it without a crisis. obviously this is a different suggestion -- situation but history suggest they did it how are made times without sending the country and world and global chaos, that puts me at the bottom. amna: are you at the bottom of optimism? jonathan: i think i'm there with david being optimistic. the staff met on tuesday, wednesday, thursday. they met today. if the staffs are meeting, that's a great sign. but this is one scary ride we are on. i don't see -- here is what i would love to see happen. it's great that the staffs are talking, and they are talking about budget cuts, but it has to be part of the appropriations process.

this needs to be dual track, raise the debt ceiling cleanly and keep having those conversations about what the spending cuts should be. that's the way it should be done. my fingers are crossed that in the end, we pulled the plane out of the nosedive with announcement that will happen. amna: is that enough for speaker mccarthy? he traded a lot to get to the speakership. can he come back to his conference with anything short of spending cuts? david: he will get spending cuts but the question is how big they will be. if you look at 93, 97, they did that, they said we will raise the debt ceiling and in that case they got to a balanced budget that we will not get to be at but i think the biden administration knows they will have to cut some spending. amna: you think there are two paths ahead? jonathan: i said what i said. the dual track gives each one to yes, they just have to do it. amna: we will watch and wait and

have you back and see if you are right. jonathan capehart and david brooks, good to see you. ♪ geoff: you could be forgiven for not knowing about the new blockbuster film knightshade. that's because it's a fictional film at the center of a new novel, starring, or make that, written, by tom hanks. this is tom hanks first novel and earlier this week he talked with jeffrey brown in new york about it and his own love of making movies for our arts and culture series, canvas. jeffrey: take a blockbuster film, one starring, say tom hanks. >> i wonder if my wife will recognize me. jeffrey: we know hanks, and perhaps the famous director but , what of all those names in the credits? one day tom hanks the author

realized he had a story to tell about them. tom: my editor said you should write a novel next and i said you are right, i should. what should it be about? [laughter] he said you live in a pretty rarified world that would be an interesting thing to read about. everybody assumes they like movies and they know how movies are made. isn't that something to write about? i sent you are exactly right and right at that moment, kind of the book landed in my head. jeffrey: the making of another the result the making of another, major motion picture masterpiece -- part send-up, all love letter to an industry. where does your ambition come, to write a novel like that? tom: well, i can't help it, i wake up with stories in my head and i wake up with questions that i want to ask of people. jeffrey: hanks draws on what he knows from his storied career. a two-time oscar winner, for philadelphia in and forrest gump 1993 a year later. some 100 films, from the

youthful big, through saving private ryan, tomorrow recently a beautiful day in the , neighborhood, which brought us together in 2019. hanks is a world-famous star. but one who loves the process and the stories of people behind it. tom: i do this thing like when i'm watching, particularly an old movie, right? a movie made before 1959, and there's a crowd scene and it takes place at night and they shot it on the backlot of paramount, ok? jeffrey: a place you are familiar with. tom: i am familiar with. i shot bosom buddies on the backlot of paramount. if there is a taxi and a bus and pedestrians every single one of , those people showed up from their apartments, their houses. they had to get there had to be , put in wardrobe, they had to be told what to do. they had to stand around and wait. they had to drive on the thing. they had to do all this stuff. and at the beginning of every shot, there is a moment of

controlled chaos. quiet, quiet, quiet. we're rolling, we're rolling, we're rolling. background and action. that has gone into every single shot in motion picture history. the mechanics of that to me is as fascinating as those, kind of like documentaries of how it is made. how is it made? well, it's made over a long haul with very particular tasks that have to be solved. jeffrey: the novel follows the making of: the making of a film in 2020, filled with rich characters, including director bill johnson chapter headings , direct from the film process itself, even pages from the fictional screenplay. but hanks goes further, to give us a big story that begins in 1946 and and made up comic book which would lead to the made-up film decades later. tom: comic books were the

original versions of storyboards for motion pictures. so that now when you read storyboards particularly the , comic book at the end. this would literally be like these storyboards that you would see closeups of eyes, something like that, somebody floating up like that. the script gives you an example of description of what you're , going to see, but the storyboards are actually what you are going to see. jeffrey: and the novel is a form of telling us how that works. tom: exactly. jeffrey: in 2017 hanks published a book of short stories titled uncommon type. we spoke then about the move to fiction. and now, with the more ambitious storytelling of a novel, about how it differs from his work in film. as novelist, you are the storyteller. tom: as novelist i get to do the whole shebang and i get to get into the heads of the people and the motivations of the people and the weaknesses of the people, as well as the strengths. a lot of time actors are given way too much credit for the end result of the movie that they are in. but in fact, we shot that one

day. we twisted ourselves in a knot in order to give unto the camera something that was ephemeral only and logical only unto ourselves. and then a director and a screenwriter and an editor and a whole phalanx of people ended up taking that and sometimes twisting it around just enough, you know, moving it around, so to become something a little different than what you brought to it. and i could walk you through any of the movies that i've been in, in which on the day that i shot it, i was just trying to carry an idea from one room into the next. but in the final moment of the film, with the rest of the story, with the other performances, with the cut, with the score, it has become a much, much, much more important building block in the movie than i ever anticipated. jeffrey: the making of a movie, as we see in your novel, looks like a series of plans and then accidents piled on top of each other. [laughter] when you look at the arc of a career, how much planned, how

much accident, how much serendipity? tom: in the younger days, i actually thought there was a ton of stuff that you could control, you know, or you could make happen and you could force manifest into it. like, i'm going to wear it like this, i'm going to say it like this, and i'm going to make this decision, and this movie will impact that movie. the fact is, you begin at square one every time. nothing you've done up to that point warrants anything that you can assume is going to be in the palm of your hand going into it. you can only show up on time. you can only know the text to -- i don't mean just your own dialogue, i mean know the material that you're making. jeffrey: you still really feel that? i mean, after the success, tom hanks walks into, and that says something for the film? tom: look, i will tell you this: sometimes there's a number of people that can walk in and allow the thing to be made in the first chance.

i'm going to, i'll drop my own name like i'm a big shot. they get in and say we got hanks ! we're going to get financing, we got hanks! jeffrey: that's how i feel right now, i got hanks. tom: oh, ok. but then once you start doing that, you realize that, well, you got the financing. but that doesn't guarantee the output. it doesn't necessarily warrant the theme of the movie that you make it good enough in order to withstand people's attention for two and half hours, better about 110 minutes. i find the 110 minute movie is an awfully good movie. just under 2 hours. jeffrey: you planning to keep writing? tom: oh, yeah, yeah. i don't know what, but i'd like to consider myself to be a writer with a day job. and the day job is pretty glamorous sometimes. jeffrey: tom hanks returns to his day job in june in the film,

asteroid city. for the pbs newshour, i'm jeffrey brown in new york. amna: there is much more online, where tom hanks talks about the writers strike and the changing economics of his industry. you can see that on our youtube page. geoff: don't forget to watch washington week, moderated tonight by our colleague laura barrón-lópez. that's right here on pbs. amna: and tune into pbs news weekend tomorrow for a look at what's led to a devastatingly poor citrus harvest in florida. in the meantime, that is the newshour. geoff: have a great weekend. >> major funding for "the pbs newshour" has been provided by -- ♪

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one giant leap for mankind. ♪ >> hello, everyone and welcome to amanpour and company. here's what's coming up. pakistan supreme court orders the release of the countries former prime minister after he was detained on corruption charges, the former pakistani ambassador to the united states unpacks this crisis surrounding a major american our i. also ahead. >> i remember hearing her calm. and then around the corner. christiane: the remarkable life of queen elizabeth's maid of honor, lady and tells me about having a front row seat for two coronations. and, after years of domestic abuse, how she's now living her best life at 90.

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