♪ amna: good evening. i'm amna nawaz. geoff: and i'm geoff bennett. on "the newshour" tonight, the latest from the southern border as the biden administration's new asylum policies take effect, complicating migration and sparking legal challenges. amna: a marine veteran is charged with manslaughter in the chokehold death of a mentally ill man on the new york city subway. geoff: and, turkey prepares to vote in the country's most consequential election in a generation, with president erdogan struggling to maintain his grip on power. >> after being in power for 20 years, he has become a very polarizing figure. and that's why i think he's facing such a huge challenge in the upcoming vote. ♪

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to your pbs station by viewers like you. thank you. geoff: welcome to "the newshour." the u.s.-mexico border remained mostly calm today, just hours after the expiration of title 42, the pandemic-era border restrictions that immediately expelled migrants. amna: homeland security officials said there was not a "substantial increase" in immigration across the border today. the biden administration is also implementing new rules that reject asylum seekers who did not apply online or who traveled through another country. that's being challenged in court but the confusion for those crossing the border remains. cindy ramirez covers immigration and the border for "el paso matters" and joins us from the border city tonight. welcome and thank you for joining us. a lot of anticipation about at it would look like when title 42 ended. you are there. tell us what you are seeing on the ground in el paso today.

cindy: a little bit anticlimactic. certainly there were a lot of unknowns, whether it would be chaotic, but as you noted, it was relatively calm and quiet overnight and into this morning and remains so as of right now. the area of the border itself, the international bridge where the migrants are to turn themselves in if they want to apply for asylum starting today, everything has been relatively quiet. amna: we've seen some numbers taking -- ticking upwards. border officials said some 10,000 people apprehended on average over the last few days. that's a very high number. as it was ending, some journalists from reuters spoke to people crossing the border overnight. this was in yuma, arizona last night. here is a little bit of what folks had to share. >> they have no choice.

they have no choice. they were after my life. they were after my life. people were after me. >> it has been a crazy journey, but i think it will be better. i hope. that's why i am here, i am here with hope and faith. >> i have come here for a future where i can work and study at the same time and have my own family here in american land. amna: the folks we heard from came from cameroon, ghana and peru. i know you are overseeing reporters as they talk to folks who are crossing. give us a sense of who is arriving right now, is it families, single adults? cindy: the majority have been single adult males, mostly from venezuela.

we've seen a good number of families, women traveling on their own or in groups of other women. we do see people from guatemala. some from cuba. honduras. so, a little bit mixed. certainly the majority are single men from venezuela. amna: the asylum rule the biden administration said that you cannot claim asylum without going through certain channels. the aclu sued overnight, what does that mean? cindy: we saw about 1600 migrants across the border turn themselves into border control to meet the deadline of title 42 so they would not arrive under title eight, if they crossed without turning themselves into

border patrol at points of entry. what that means is there will be more uncertainty among migrants who are across in the border city of juarez in mexico. and trying to figure out what is next for them. there has certainly been confusion, misinformation, and worry about the changing rules and laws and policies that have come into play. so, certainly a lot of confusion among them and what to do next. amna: just to clarify, title eight was the immigration standard at the border before title 42 went into place. we've heard from the biden administration and secretary mayorkas. they've been opening legal pathways even as they impose other restrictions at the border. from the folks you've talked to, has anyone been able to access those legal pathways? cindy: a few of them have had a little luck with the phone app and they've been able to make some appointments but the majority have not been able to

access that. the vast majority of the migrants we have seen in our community had already left several countries and traveled here sometimes six months ago, , sometimes four weeks ago when they left their home countries a . the majority also do not have an interest, but actually have a fear of remaining in mexico. there has been some clashes between some law enforcement and migrants in mexico. as you may know as well, a deadly migrant detention fire killed 40 people in juarez. so i think that certainly scarred a lot of people who have no interest in staying in mexico. amna: we have about 30 seconds left. there are some 65,000 people waiting in northern mexico potentially to cross. you said so far it is crowded but calm. what you expect in the days and weeks ahead?

cindy: the big thing for communities like el paso, is a win the migrants are released into communities and shutter capacity would become an issue. amna: cindy ramirez joining us from el paso, texas. thank you. cindy: thank you. ♪ geoff: in the day's other headlines -- the u.s. marine veteran who put a fellow passenger in a fatal chokehold on a new york city subway was charged with second degree manslaughter today. daniel penny was freed pending trial after being released on $100,000 bond. he insists he acted in self-defense. the family of the victim, jordan neely, said he had a history of

mental illness and was not a threat. clashes between israel and islamic jihad raged for a fourth straight day. palestinian militants launched a barrage of rockets toward jerusalem. israel later stepped up its airstrikes, bombing targets in gaza and killing a top islamic jihad leader and his aide. since tuesday, the fighting has claimed the lives of 33 palestinians in gaza, and one man in israel. in sudan, airstrikes rocked the capital khartoum today, as another truce between the country's warring generals appeared to collapse. late thursday, saudi arabian state television aired video of the two factions signing a deal promising safe passage to fleeing civilians. but today in port sudan, some remained skeptical. youssef: this deal doesn't represent us in any way. it was announced to please the warring sides. the sudanese people have nothing to do with this deal because it does not concern them.

geoff: at least 600 people have died since violence first broke out nearly a month ago. the u.n. estimates around 200,000 people have fled to neighboring countries. a high court in pakistan granted former prime minister imran khan a two-week reprieve from arrest, after days of deadly protests. the opposition leader left a courtroom today surrounded by security and media. he claims the corruption charges leveled against him are made up. back in this country -- twitter will soon have new leadership, once again. elon musk named linda yaccarino as his successor. the nbc universal advertising executive will take her new post in about six weeks. musk acquired twitter last october. the tesla billionaire will now serve as twitter's executive chairman and chief technology officer. the congressional budget office says the u.s. faces a "significant risk of running out of cash within the first two weeks of june without a debt limit increase." the warning reinforced treasury secretary janet yellen's estimate of when a possible default could occur.

it comes as the white house and congressional leaders postponed a meeting planned for today to break the impasse. they'll now meet early next week. concerns about the u.s. economy pushed stocks lower on wall street today. the dow jones industrial average lost nine points to close at 33,300. the nasdaq fell 44 points. the s&p 500 slipped six. and, a passing to note -- journalist hodding carter iii died thursday at his home in chapel hill, north carolina. he was the state department spokesman under former president jimmy carter -- no relation -- and he briefed the country throughout the iran hostage crisis. a former newspaperman who championed civil rights, he often appeared on a number of news programs, including this one. hodding carter was 88 years old. still to come on "the newshour." the public health questions that remain as the official covid emergency comes to an end. david brooks and jonathan capehart weigh in on the week's political headlines. and tom hanks talks about his newest credit -- as a novelist. ♪

>> this is "the pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington, and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. geoff: we return now to the death of jordan neely on the new york city subway last week. daniel penny, the former marine accused of putting neely in a chokehold for several minutes before he died, surrendered to police today and was released on bond. witnesses say on may 1, neely got on the train acting erratically. they say he was shouting at passengers, but there are no reports that he physically attacked anyone. then, video shows penny wrapping his arms around neely's neck, forcing him to the ground. witnesses say he held him there until neely stopped breathing. daniel penny's attorney spoke to reporters today outside the police station. mr. kenniff: this morning, daniel penny surrendered at the 5th precinct at the request of the district attorney's office. he did so voluntarily and with

the sort of dignity and integrity that is characteristic of his history of service to this grateful nation. geoff: at a separate news conference, the family of jordan neely said he had a history of mental illness and posed no threat. they demanded the charges be raised from manslaughter to murder. mr. edwards: daniel penny chose, intentionally chose, a technique to use that is designed to cut off air. that's what he chose. and he chose to continue to hold that chokehold minute after minute, second after second, until there was no life left in jordan neely. geoff: the killing touched off widespread protests in new york over policing and a lack of support from the city for those who are homeless and mentally ill. to unpack all this, i'm joined by errol louis -- he hosts inside city hall on new york 1 and is a columnist for new york magazine. it is good to have you here. it took two weeks for the

manhattan d.a. to bring charges in this case. was that because the investigation took that long, or was this a response to two weeks of public pressure? errol: it's always hard to say whether public pressure makes a difference but i can tell you for sure the district attorney's office had a lot of work to do in this investigation. that video is compelling, a compelling piece of evidence, but not the only piece of evidence. they tried to round up every person they could find on that subway car and tried to interview them and get all kinds of information into evidence and put it together before making a decision about whether or not to move forward. it wasn't entirely clear that a crime had been committed or who had done it or what the circumstances were. in some ways they are moving at a fast clip under the circumstances. geoff: this case brings new focus to issues of race and crime and mental illness and homelessness.

there are people who say daniel penny was a good samaritan who jumped into action when jordan neely was shouting about he was hungry and tired and did not want to live anymore and did not care if you went to jail. -- did not care if he went to jail. others say this case represents the worst form of vigilantism. how is this dividing the city? errol: it's along those lines. take the term vigilantism, it's being thrown around. well, that requires the commission of a crime. a vigilante is someone who stops a crime. under their own authority rather than under the law. but throwing your jacket down on a train and yelling is not a ime. saying you are hungry and despairing, thirsty, you don't care what happens to you, that is not a crime either. you could offer them man a sandwich or a couple of dollars. you don't necessarily have to throw him in a chokehold. that's the kind of conversation happening in new york right now. what do we owe to our neighbors, those among us in distress who may have an addiction problem or a mental health or emotional disability?

do we owe the more than just physical force and treating them like an outcast or criminal or can we do better? geoff: on that point, you wrote a column for new york magazine with a headline that stopped me in my tracks. the headline was, "jordan neely was already dead." you meant he was socially dead. to be black, homeless and destitute, he was an outcast. he was an outsider. tell me more about that and what it says about the city's social safety net. errol: a long time ago i took a course with a man named orlando patterson, who did a masterful work called "slavery and social death." he surveyed societies across millennia across the world. asia, europe, africa, everywhere. what he came up with was this concept of social death. and it reminded me of how we treat some people in our own modern society. the concept has not gone away.

which is that certain people are just considered outside the circle of care and concern, they are socially dead. what happens to them is of considerably less concern to the rest of us. and that is what we do every time we are walking past somebody like jordan neely, who is in distress. there was some graffiti scribbled near where he died , saying who killed jordan neely? to a certain extent, it is all of us. geoff: i spoke to the mayor about his plan to combat crime and address homelessness, but is any of that showing results? errol: we have seen some numbers that have been impressive. the number of cops was doubled and i think tripled. a lot of overtime is being spent and a lot of cops are in the subways. the number of arrests has more than doubled, the number of crimes have plummeted. so yes that response has yielded , results.

what it has not done is dealt with people in need, who are perhaps disorderly, perhaps homeless. you cannot arrest somebody, you cannot arrest your way out of those problems. arresting somebody does not get them an apartment, it does not get them addiction treatment or whatever assistance they might need. and that has been the stubborn remnants of a policing approach that some people have condemned as the wrong tool for the current situation. you certainly don't want pickpockets and muggers running around in the subway plying their trade but you also don't necessarily want to apply an anti-crime policing approach to people who need help and jordan neely is a perfect example of that. he spent six months in rikers island, he came out and we have this tragedy that we have been talking about. geoff: what happens next in this case?

>> mr. penny will be back in court in july. he is free on bond right now, he cannot leave the state. he has surrendered his passport. he is a suspect in an important case. an indictment will likely follow. when he comes back in july, he will have received a lot of information from the district attorney about evidence that's been collected, the investigation they've conducted, and he will be in a better position to assess whether he wants to change his plea, strike a deal or go to trial. those are pretty much the choices in front of him. geoff: errol lewis, thank you . thank you for being with us. errol: thank you. ♪

amna: this sunday, more than 60 million turks will cast their ballot to decide the country's next president. turkey is a nato member, part of the g20, and for two decades has been led by reccep tayyip erdogan. the opposition calls him authoritarian. he calls them terrorists. and as nick schifrin reports, erdogan faces his toughest battle yet in an election that could have major implications for turkey, and its allies. nick: in the city that propelled him to power three decades ago, the man dubbed turkey's new sultan unleashed new insults. turkish president reccep tayyip erdogan last weekend branded his opponent pro-lgbt, a supporter of terrorism, and a drunkard. >> mr. kemal, drink as much as you want. you can drink a full keg, but even that will not make you better. my nation will not give the floor to an alcoholic. nick: mr. kemal is opposition

candidate who focuses on kitchen , table issues from his kitchen table. >> this is the real agenda of the people, as they all know that when i come to power, there will be democracy, and your purchasing power will increase. nick: he has pressed that message at his own massive rallies. and a unified opposition of a half a dozen parties poses the greatest electoral threat that erdogan has ever faced. >> i know it's a cliche for the politicians to say that the upcoming elections are existential, but in turkey's case, it's actually true. nick: gonul tol is the founding director of the middle east institute's turkey program, and the author of erdogan's war. >> if he wins another term, i think turkey will degenerate further into an authoritarian regime. if the opposition wins, however, i think turkish democracy will have a shot. nick: voters' number one issue has been sticker shock. today, inflation is more than 40

-- 40%, down from 85% last november. >> they've said inflation is 85% but i don't think it is 85%. it feels around 250%-300%. nick: 31 year old melike saka told us she feels the cost of living crisis as consumer and seller. she works at a deli that's a family affair. that's her father. they've never witnessed consumers buying less, or profits dropping faster. >> the quantities that we sold have decreased. i can say our sales have decreased by half. nick: turkey's economic pain runs deep, but analysts say erdogan's unorthodox prescription of slashing interest rates made the country sicker. >> the country's faltering economy and the cost of living crisis has been high on the voters' agenda. and these economic troubles are largely of president erdogan's own making. and the second problem for voters is this growing repression. nick: in 2013, police and the government cracked down on

critics after massive anti-government protests. in 2016, the government accused the military of a failed coup, and erdogan launched a society wide purge. 50,000 arrested. 150,000 lost their jobs or were suspended, including teachers branded terrorists, who clashed with police. and critical journalists like cumhuriyet books magazine editor turhan gunay were detained, as he told me back in 2017. what happens to people in turkey right now if they oppose the government? >> i can only answer this question through my own experience, and that is: you are thrown into jail. the government has no tolerance for the slightest criticism. nick: and the 2018 election created a new presidential system that increased erdogan's powers. >> from now on, it's time for the president and the parliament to do more work. nick: but that portrayal of himself crumbled in february's earthquake.

countless dings llapse survivors criticized the government for a slow response, and for favoring builders who cut corners. >> he promised that if the country switched to a presidential system that would grant him unprecedented powers, that he would be able to solve the country's pressing problems in a more efficient way. and on the day of the earthquake, we saw that that was not the case. nick: it was another mega quake in 1999 that helped propel him to power. he became prime minister in 2003 thanks to anger against the secular, political elite. he was the alternative -- a religious, working-class outsider who presented himself a progressive ally of the west, and helped lead the country to economic growth. but today erdogan's charisma and , populism has divided society. >> he has become a very polarizing figure. and that's why i think he's facing such a huge challenge in

the upcoming vote, because he always relied on others, relied on allianc to secure a majority, and for the first time in nearly two decades, he's struggling to find allies. nick: he's leaned on strongmen including russian president vladimir putin for economic, political, and military support. an erdogan loss could weaken that partnership. and the opposition fears an erdogan loss could also lead to violence. on a leading opposition figure's sunday, bus was pelted with stones, and erdogan's threatened to take to the streets. today, kilicdaroglu aides said he campaigned with a bulletproof vest, and armed guards. he and his wife have made a heart their symbol. and he hopes to put an end to what he calls 20 years of one man rule. for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schifrin. ♪

geoff: after more than three years, the public of emergency has ended. we are in a much better place and deaths are at their lowest levels is 2020 but concerns over how the government will respond to new variants or even a serious new epidemic remain. william brangham has our look. william: more than 1.1 million americans have died of covid since the pandemic began three years ago. for those who lost loved ones early on, this moment where the country has declared an end of the public health emergency, is a complicated time. tracy: my name is tracy. i am the wife and widow of a husband who passed away from covid september 23, 2020. he died of something he should not have died of. and, i know people think it is over but it is not.

going out there in the public and being out there has scared me so much. because what he went through, i was not there when he passed away, i could not be there. that was the beginning of the pandemic. i could not touch him. i could not say goodbye. i am still dealing with it. you know, there is no timeframe on death for someone you love. there is no timeframe. i live with this everyday. i had to go to therapy because of the death of my husband. so i live with this everyday and , they don't get it. some people that don't -- have not lost a loved one, it has not affected them and they go on with everyday life because they think they are invincible but they are not. it could happen to any of us. max: my father is max osceola junior. i am a member of the seminole

tribe of florida. my father was councilman of our tribe. he accomplished a lot for us. my father passed away roughly two years ago, october, at the beginning of covid. my mother was with my father for 50 years they were high school , sweethearts. their life was intertwined in a way that was unimaginable. that is what it really is understanding life and moving , forward in the sense of how can we honor my father? i think society has already opened up in a sense and the government is reacting to that. we are better prepared for other emergencies. covid is not going away. the genie is out of the bottle. i'm sure in the future there will be another outbreak and hopefully we respond accordingly. my family has been able to honor my father, we have been able to have a little more closure. we are very, very fortunate for the father we had. there was a lifetime of love. william: many of the federal

programs set up in response to the pandemic are now ending with the expiration of the emergency order. so where does that leave us? for a closer look at that, we are joined again by dr. jennifer nuzzo. professor of epidemiology and director of the pandemic center at brown university school of public health. great to have you back on the newshour. i mean, we have been talking on and off for three years of this pandemic, through some of the worst periods of time, and now as the light seems to be at the end of this tunnel. where'd you see this moment we are at right now? dr. nuzzo: i think as you said, it is a complicated time. i mean, we are in a complicated time. covid, the acute emergency is over. the emergency declaration is over. but the tolls of covid, including the loss of life , continues. in my view, those tolls remain unacceptably high and really point to the need for continuing

to work to reduce those tolls and also, crucially, to make sure we are never again left as vulnerable to a virus as this one made us. william: to that point, the virus is still with us. do you think we have the right eyes on this situation right now? are we doing enough monitoring so that if a new variant emerges, if cases were to tick up again, we would be able to see it in time? dr. nuzzo: i'm quite worried about our abilities to pick up future emergencies. that may include a future covid variant, but it probably also includes other viruses that we have yet to discover that could emerge and cause pandemic threats. much of that progress is at risk now with the end of the emergency. we are scaling back the types of data that we're collecting, and that generally gives us less insights into what's going on with covid. but it also means that we will have less ability to pick up new pandemic threats. and so the point that i really want to make clear is that while the acute covid emergency has

ended, our vulnerability to events like covid has not changed unless we decide to take action to make it change. that requires improving our data along with a lot of other things that we still have yet to do. william: as you well know, there is this ongoing fight in congress over some of the things that you are describing here. what do you think are the key priorities that we ought to be focused on, even as we "wind down" the end of the pandemic? dr. nuzzo: first of all, the fact that we are having fights over pandemic preparedness at this point after witnessing the loss of a million americans is to me unfathomable. i just don't know how much more we need to endure in order to make the investment in preparedness worth it. but in terms of what we should be doing with the resources that we have, is first of all, we have to be fixing our data. you know, for most of the pandemic, we were just trying to triangulate our way to the truth. we had huge blind spots and understanding what was happening with covid, who was being

affected worse by it. what sorts of activities and places were driving transmission. how covid was affecting us. we didn't have a complete picture in all communities. that was one big problem. but also we're not done in terms of treating covid and also thinking about how to make ourselves less vulnerable to severe illness from other respiratory threats. so one thing i would really like to see are new vaccines that produced longer lasting immunity and possibly prevent infection. that would be great. not sure if that's scientifically possible, but absolutely worth the investment in the science. making sure that we have the best possible treatments that we can not just for covid but , thinking about future infections. and then also, crucially, we need to figure out what sorts of other measures we want to put into place in our communities to reduce our vulnerability, not just to this virus and other viruses that we know continue to threaten us year in and year to out like influenza and rsv. , we had big problems with that in the fall.

but thinking ahead to future threats. it is possible to make investments now, to put into place a bolstered infrastructure and plans that can be ready to snap into place such that when the next pandemic threat arises, we don't have to have our lives upended in the way that covid did. we have seen progress being made in terms of tackling other public health threats. i'd like to think of public health threats like the way we think about other recurring hazards like fires. if we reduce our social vulnerabilities, we reduce our community wide vulnerabilities to these threats. we can go about our lives largely not thinking about them, but with enhanced safety against them. william: on the issue of long covid, we know there are still millions of people suffering with that, and on some level of the end of the emergency declaration doesn't mean much to them because they are still and continue to suffer. do you think we're doing enough research to understand what is happening with that ailment and how to help those people? dr. nuzzo: this is something that i think we have not done right by these patients.

these patients are suffering quite a bit and they haven't gotten the kind of resources they need to help them. i want to stress not just about -- stress that this is not just about covid. it is possible that what we are seeing in patients who are affected by covid could be something that we coul experience with other infectious diseases. so while the case numbers of covid may be diminishing, the need to understand how viruses can affect us in the long term. -- long-term has not changed. it's an important point that we should be investigating so that we don't have x y and z when we think of other viruses that we may encounter or experience large outbreaks. william: dr. jennifer nuzzo, brown university school of public health. always good to see you. thank you. ♪ amna: this week brought us several major political stories, including the end of a

controversial border policy, former president donald trump found liable for sexual assault, -- sexual abuse, and ongoing negotiations over the debt ceiling. to discuss all of this, we turn to the analysis of brooks and capehart. that's new york times columnist david brooks and jonathan capehart, associate editor for the washington post. welcome. good to see you. we are talking about immigration again, focus back on the u.s. southern border. david, as we saw earlier, as title 42 ends, crowded but not chaotic. still the numbers have been going up. there are very high daily averages. took a cherry mayorkas -- and secretary mayorkas says they continue to work within the confines of a system that has been outdated and underfunded for years. does it have to be this way? david: in our political system, for sure. i am glad that they are getting rid of title 42, it is insane to have that immigration policy that pretends to be a health care policy or vice versa.

basically we have to define what , asylum is. there are a lot of people fleeing persecution, that's what the asylum bill is made for. but there are other people just seeking a better life and that is a legitimate reason to try to immigrate here. but you could not -- then they are trying to use the asylum system to get in and that's one of the many ways our system has broken down. you look at what has happened in europe, around the world, and in this country. donald trump would not have been president without chaos, in my view. -- chaos at the border in my , view. the far right people across europe would not be doing as well politically without chaos at the border. mostly americans need to have a sense that somebody is controlling this thing and right now they are not. jonathan: to pick up on what david was saying, the people using the asylum system -- why? part of the reason why is the american immigration system is such a backlog through the legal channels, the proper

channels, that people are finding any and every way possible to come into this country. until congress gets its act together and does something, comprehensive immigration reform, the last time if memory serves got anywhere near doing something was when the senate passed a bipartisan gang of eight immigration reform bill out of the senate and it stalled in the house i2014 and we've not seen anything like that since. and, this is one of those situations where if washington were working properly, if the country were in a different place, this is the situation where you would have another gang of eight, gang of 12, just a congressional gang getting in a room and hashing out, how do we fix this now? this is our opportunity. and instead, it does not seem like congress will do anything. amna: does it surprise you to see the biden administration move further right? the fact they are being sued by

progressives and conservatives about their immigration policies, what does it say about this moment? jonathan: it says everything is broken. everything is broken. i should correct melf -- the house did pass an immigration bill, but it is not going anywhere in the senate. amna: to that point, they knew the bill would be dead on arrival. where is the incentive to work on it? david: the biden administration i think is shifting more toward a mainstream position. you remember the primary debate in 2020, should we decriminalize the border and all of the hands went up? not joe biden's. but that's when the party was not in the mainstream because people want immigration but also control. i'm going to be on the irrational side of a tiny hint of optimism. the house passes this bill and then in the senate you get kyrsten sinema and tommy tillis , two senators saying, it is a starting point. then you get dick durbin, he's

saying it is hopeful. schumer is active, a lot of people suddenly are active. so, i guess one thing, we've been covering this and people have been trying to push immigration reform as comprehensive immigration reform. one big bill, everybody gets a piece. we have been trying that for 30 years. maybe we should try something more modest to just take a step. there is pent up desire to do something but it looks messy. amna: we will be talking about this quite a bit in 2024. the front runner on the republican side remains former president donald trump, also in the headlines. earlier in the week, he was found liable of sexually abusing e. jean carroll. he also took part in a town hall where he continued to lie about the election and mocked carroll. i think it is fair to say he offered a clear preview of what we will see for the next year and a half. jonathan, you were watching this unfold, is this what we are in for? jonathan: absolutely.

yes. but i was not surprised. i have watched this trump rerun since june 16, 2015, when he announced his presidential campaign. but what was so horrific about the town hall was the reaction of the audience. the reaction of the audience when it came to talking about january 6, especially the reaction of the audience as he continued to defame carroll. and to question the jury, a jury of his peers, that found him liable for sexual abuse. there is an ugliness about that reaction, that i think -- um, probably helps him in the primary. but, god almighty, i hope it hurts him in the general if he is the republican nominee, because america cannot go down that road. amna: giving him a live

platform, is it a bad idea or mistake? david: i do not think so. he has a healthy lead on joe biden. people prefer his economic policies to joe biden's. he is the number one or in the american people -- the american people get to choose who we covered. and we cover major figures. there are ways to cover in ways not to cover. in my view it would be disastrous if we appointed ourselves sensors or determiners of who is covered. one of the reasons donald trump is popular is people think people in our business are arrogant. to me that would be an arrogant move to say no we are not going , to cover that guy. jonathan: let's be clear, donald trump is popular because he scratches the very raw, emotional and ugly itch within

the american populace where if i -- where he, if i read one more time of someone saying i like donald trump because he says what we are thinking -- if that is the case, those are some really ugly thoughts. amna: i know we will be talking about this for several months ahead, so i want to turn to another looming issue, the talks of the debt ceiling. there is no end in sight but talks continue. do you at least take that as a sign of progress? will there be a deal in time? david: i'm on the bottom end of cautiously optimistic. [laughter] amna: the tipping bottom, a new phrase, by the way. david: they are talking. the staffs are talking, they postponed the meeting, that suggests to me they are talking. there is some agreement about at least what they will talk about. we've had dozens of debt ceiling crises -- not crises, but where we had to raise the ceiling.

the majority of the recent ones they attached some debt reduction. in every single one of those times they did it without a crisis. this is a hairier situation, but the fact that history suggests they did it how are made times without sending the country and world into global chaos, that puts me at the bottom. amna: are you at the bottom of optimism? jonathan: i think i'm there with david being optimistic. that the staffs are meeting. the staffs met on tuesday, wednesday, thursday. they met today. if the staffs are meeting, that's a great sign. but this is one scary ride we are on. i don't see -- he is what i would love to see happen. it is great that the staffs are talking, and they are talking about budget cuts, but it has to be part of the appropriations process. this needs to be dual track,

raise the debt ceiling cleanly and keep having those conversations about what the budget or spending cuts should be. that's the way it should be done. my fingers are crossed that in the end, we pulled the plane out of the nosedive with an announcement that that is exactly what will happen. amna: is that enough for speaker mccarthy? he traded a lot to get to the speakership. can he come back to his conference with anything short of spending cuts? david: he will get spending cuts but the question is how big they will be. if you look at what happened in '93, '97, they did that, they said we will raise the debt ceiling and in that case they got to a balanced budget that we will not get to. but i think the biden administration knows they will have to cut some spending. amna: you think there are two paths ahead? and it will leave both sides with a win. jonathan: i said what i said. the dual track gives each one to yes, they just have to do it. amna: we will watch and wait and

have you back and see if you are right. that is the real test. [laughter] jonathan capehart and david brooks, good to see you. ♪ geoff: you could be forgiven for not knowing about the new blockbuster film "knightshade." that's because it's a fictional film at the center of a new novel, starring, or make that, writte ha >> "nitrate" is a fictional film written by tom hanks. this is hanks first novel. earlier this week him he talk with jeffrey brown in new york about it and his own love of making movies were our arts and culture series, canvas. >> i am a schoolteacher. >> take a block buster film, one star in, say, tom hanks. >> i wonder if i could have changed so much that my wife is even going to recognize me when i get back to her.

>> we know hanks and perhaps the famous director. what about those names in the credits. one day, tom hanks realized he had a story to talk about them. >> you are right. i shut. what should it be about? and he said, you live in a pretty graphite world that would be an interesting thing to read about. everyone just assumes they like movies and they know how movies are made. >> i said, isn't that something to write about? úi said, you ar at that moment, the book ended in my head. >> to resolve, the making of another motion picture masterpiece. all love lettered u.n. industry. >> where is your ambition coming to write a novel like that? >> i cannot help. i wake up a story in my head and i wake up with questions i want to ask of people. >> hang strasse what he knows from his story to career. at i . jeffrey: hanks draws on what he. knows from his storied career. a two-time oscar-winner in 1993 and "force gump."

from "big through "saving private ryan" through more recently "a beautiful day in the neighborhood. hanks is a world-famous star, but one who love the process and the stories of people behind it. >> i do this thing, like when i am particularly watching an old movie. a movie made before 1959 and there is a crowd scene and it takes place at night and they shot it on the back lot at paramount. okay? >> a place you are familiar with? >> see. it is all perfectly normal. >> if there is a taxi and a bus and pedestrians, every single one of those people showed up from their apartments from their houses. they had to get there. they had to be put in wardrobe. they had to be told what to do. they had to stand around and wait. they had to do all this stuff. and at the beginning of every shot, there is a moment of

controlled chaos. quiet, quite, quite. we are rolling. we are willing. we are willing. background. and action. that has gone into every single shot in motion picture history. the mechanics of that, to me, is as fascinating as most kind of documentaries of how it is made. how is it made? well, it is made over a long call with very particular tasks that have to be sold. >> the novel follows the making of the making of a film in 2020, filled with rich characters including director bill johnson, chapter headings trek from the film process itself, and even pages from the fictional screenplay. but hanks goes further to give us a back story that begins in 1947 and they made up comic book which would lead to the made up film decades later. >> comic books were the original version of storyboards for motion pictures. so that now when you read

storyboards -- >> you see it that way. >> particularly the comic book at the end. this will be literally like the storyboards that you would see close-ups of eyes and things like that. somebody floating up like that. the script gives you a description of what you will see, but the storyboards is actually what you are going to see. >> and a novel as a form of telling us how that works. >> exactly. >> in 2017, hanks published a book of short stories titled "uncommon type." we spoke about the move to fiction and now with a more ambitious storytelling of a novel about how it differs from his work in film. >> as novelist, you are the straight teller. >> i get to do the whole shebang. i get into the heads of the people and the motivations of the people and the weaknesses of the people as well as the

strengths. a long time, actors are given way too much credit for the end results of the movies that they are in, but in fact, we shot that one one-day. in fact, we twisted ourselves in a knot in order to give under the camera something that was ephemeral only and logical only onto ourselves. then a director and a screenwriter and a editor and a whole bunch of people ended up taking that and sometimes twisting around just enough so it becomes something a little different than what you brought to it. and i could walk you through any of the movies that i have been in and on the day i shot a, i was just trying to carry one idea from one room to the next. but in the final moment of the film, with the rest of the story and other performances and the cut and the score, it has become a much, much, much more important building block in a movie than i ever anticipated. >> the making of a movie, as we see in your novel, looks like a

series of plans and then asked and then spout on top of each other. when you look at the arc of a career, how much planned, how much accident, how much, >> i'm going to say, in the younger days, i thought there was a ton of stuff that you could control. you know? or you could make happen and force manifest into it. i will make this decision and this movie will impact that movie. the fact is, you begin at square one every time. nothing you have done up to that point warrants anything that you can assume is going to be in the palm of your hand going into it. you can only show up on time. you can only know the text. know the material that you are making. >> you really feel that? after all the success, tom hanks walk in and that says something? >> i will tell you this. sometimes there is a number of people that can walk in and allow the thing to be made in the first place. i am going to drop my own name like i'm a big shop.

>> we got hanks. so therefore, we'll get our financing. why? because we got hanks. we are okay. we got hanks. then i show up. but then, when you start doing that, you realize that that got you the financing. but that does not guarantee of the output. it does not necessarily warrant the theme of the movie that you make is good enough in order to withstand the people's attention for 2 1/2 hours. better at about 110 minutes. i find a 110 minute movie is an awfully good movie. just under two hours. >> you plan to keep writing? >> you. i do not know what, but i like to consider myself to be a writer with a day job. and the day job is pretty damage sometimes. >> tom hanks return to his day job in june, in the film

"asteroid city." for the pbs news hour, and jeffrey brown in new york. >> and enters much more online where tom hanks talks about the writers' strike and that changing economics of his industry. you can see that on our youtube page. >> do not forget to watch washington we, moderated by our own colleague right here on pbs. >> can tune into pbs news week and to muffle a look at what has led to a devastatingly poor citrus harvest in florida. in the meantime, that is the newshour for tonight. >> have a great weekend. ú>> major funding for the pbs news hour has been provided by

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>> i take care of newborns who need to be in an intensive care unit. people come from all over to have their babies here because of the fetal treatment center and the fetal treatments that were developed and conceived here. taking care of all these complicated, tiny little patience really requires a whole team of specialists, from the nurses to the physicians and therapist. the reasons i love working here is because i get to work with families from the beginning of life to the time when they have taken their baby home. we make a really emotional connection with the family. i like being able to see in real-time the effects of our interventions and making a difference in these families' lives. >> redefining possible.

>> here is a night teen 71 movie quiz. >> all day long, spirits is only in his mid-30s when he played the role, so what did the director contribute to his makeup? his own eyebrow hairs. you provide the popcorn, the couch, and the tv, and will provide great movies like fiddler on the roof.

>> tonight on kqed newsroom, artificial intelligence tolls built right here in the bay area are changing the world. we talk with a california úlawmaker who is urging congres to explore this emerging technology before it is too late. a.i. is also influencing the art world. we talk with the new director of the san francisco ballet about her innovative first season of shows, which includes a piece inspired by artificial intelligence. coming to you from kqed headquarters in san francisco, this friday may 12th, 2023