♪ >> good evening. >> on "the newshour" tonight, my at the southern border on themselves stuck in limbo amid a shift in u.s. immigration policies. >> debt ceiling negotiations see progress on spending cuts, but a deal to avoid a national default remains illicit. -- elusive. >> three years after the murder of george floyd, minneapolis's new police chief discusses minneapolis's future and the need for reform. >> it is very clearly a systems problem as opposed to just trying to scapegoat one or two persons here or there.

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, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security atarnegie.org. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> welcome to "the newshour." republicans in the white house are closer to an agreement on the debt ceiling, but there's still no deal tonight as lawmakers get ready to leave

washington for the memorial day weekend. we will have the latest on negotiations in a moment, but first, to changes on u.s. immigration policy. i'm in a vase is in brownsville, texas, and has been speaking to migrants trying to navigate the new rules for asylum-seekers. there are lots of questions about with the end of title 42 means, but what does it look like down at the border where you are tonight? >> as you remember, it has been two weeks since title 42 ended. that was a pandemic-era policy that allows officials to have delia expel anyone arriving at the u.s. southern border -- allows officials to expel anyone arriving at the u.s. southern border. immigration attorneys and nonprofits were preparing for even bigger numbers, for a bigger search after title 42 ended. it did not happen. numbers actually went down, and the question was why.

we found out today when we crossed into mexico and spoke with people waiting on the mexican side of the border. there is now a huge backup. people from venezuela and honduras and columbia and further afield who say they are going to wait because of the rule changes that u.s. officials have implemented. they know now that the message u.s. officials have been trying to get across for months now, saying the border is not open, saying that if you try to enter without permission, you could be banned from entering, saying you cannot enter without an appointm the u.s. border official. they havehit heard thatent messe loud and clear. they tell us they are going to wait. >> what is that experience like for migrants who are waiting? >> waiting for them is tenuous and stressful, and it is often dangerous as well. we crossed into a town on the others of the border from brownsville, and as soon as we crossed the bridge, we were

greeted by a huge crowd of people who have basically been gathering at the foot of that bridge every single morning trying to get answers to these questions. there's an immigration group there, refugee groups, and more importantly, some volunteer attorneys who crossed the bridge every day and try to get some of those migrants answers to their questions. there's a lot of questions about what exactly the rules are in terms of who is allowed entry to the united states, and most acutely, questions around the app created by the customs and border protection in which migrants are asked to make an appointment to then appear and make their case for asylum. those appointments are highly coveted, very limited, and supply does not merely meet demand. we spoke to a gentleman named carlos who is from honduras. he took out his phone in frustration to show me how many times he has been logging on to the app, submitting the application, trying to do things the legal way, and he has yet to

get an appointment. he has been dealing with this every single day for the last few months. people we talk to basically say the logger -- longer migrants are forced to wait, the more vulnerable they become. there are already rampant reports of extortion and kidnapping and sexual assault. we spoke to a woman from venezuela who is here with her teenage daughters. she will not even take them to go sleep in the migrant camp thereby because she's so if rate they will be assaulted. every night for the past month, they have been here sleeping out in the open at a bus station, and she has no idea when they will be allowed to make their case to u.s. officials. >> i know you and the team visited one of the migrant encampments. what were the conditions like? >> in a word, absolutely appalling. they are unsanitary, dangerous, and all of this is unfolding just a few minutes away from the u.s. border. we visited a camp where there's about 2500 people hour soak, we

are told, and this is not even the biggest camp, sources told us. these are sprawling temporary tart come -- tarp, tent, and blanket-type camps and these have grown in size since title 42 ended because people are deciding to stay here and wait but there are not resources to support them. there's no sanitation, no running water. we saw that sources tell us there's rampant covid and tuberculosis and dengue and water shortages. just dozens and dozens of families and children, and i will tell you, this is no place for children waiting for their chance, 90-degree heat every day to try to make their case to u.s. officials. right now, they don't know when that will be. we are seeing there's not a crisis that they expected at the u.s. border necessarily, but there's definitely one unfolding just a few hundred yards away. >> we look forward to more

overreporting on the broadcast tomorrow. it is good to see you. with the u.s. potentially just one week away from defaulting on its deaths, members of congress are leaving town the memorial day break without a deal. the white house and house republicans are continuing to negotiate. >> in the halls of power, hopes for a finish line. top leaders were careful -- >> top leaders in the white house continue to work. >> are your staffs continue to meet. as we speak, as a matter of fact. i have make their time and again defaulting on national debt is not an option. >> but word of a possible debt ceiling deal was ringing. >> i think they are close. i think we all know there's going to be some give and take.

i think they are very close to it. >> key conservatives did not like talk of a longer debt ceiling increase without more concessions. >> yes, my antenna is up. that does not seem to me to meet what our expectations are in terms of transformative substantive fiscal reforms necessary to raise the debt ceiling. >> mike lee of utah threatened to hold up any bill without substantial reform, potentially jeopardizing default, and progressive's and's interest -- progressives consisted the debt ceiling should be raised with no condition. >> republicans, mccarthy, raised the debt ceiling three times under trunk. now because a democrat is in the presidency, now he has an issue with that? that's politics, not governance. >> dozens of democrats took to the house floor cooking to tilt a deal left. >> extreme maga republicans have

needlessly manufactured and economic crisis. >> don't make americans pay for republican hypocrisy. >> but very few people are actually in the behind closed doors talks. one of them, mick -- one of them, republican patrick mchenry , something's up. >> nothing is or solved. everybody things you can bank something. you cannot bank anything until you have a complete deal. >> when are we going to hear the word agreement, deal? talks have moved towards what democrats are asking for, at longer increase in the debt ceiling, maybe even two years, but republicans want more concessions for that. that's one of the hangups now, but otherwise, they have gotten closer on spending cuts but very

tangled up over work requirements for food stamps, snap benefits, they are called. that is a real dividing line. that also includes some money that affects the bottom line. that is what they are working on tonight, and also both sides trying to figure out if they have enough votes on either side to get through what is shaping up to be a possible deal today, tomorrow, critical days. >> republicans have said all along they want concessions on spending cuts. what exactly are they looking for? >> earlier this week, we looked atis spending cuts. i want to show what republicans are asking for specifically. the last fiscal year, the one we are currently in, one $.6 trillion in discretionary funds that cgress controls. republicans want to cut that back to the level it was about a year and a half ago in fiscal year 2022.

that would be $130 billion in cuts. it looks like such a tiny slice, but that is $130 billion, and for democrats, they see that as a much bigger deal. >> most domestic spending is tied to the defense budget. i don't hear republicans or democrats talking about cutting the pentagon budget, so what is left? >> this is such a critical concept. who gets cut if you have spending cuts? right now, all of that discretion money is in defense. republicans are saying they would protect defense money and money for veterans, hundreds of billions of dollars. they would have to cut everything else by 1/3, so that is something that would have incredibly far-reaching repercussions across the board. let's talk about schools. the white house says that kind of cut would need 26 million

students to be cut across the country. it would also affect housing vouchers for some it hundred thousand americans who use federal housing vouchers to help with rent. in addition, let's talk about programs for the elderly, meals on wheels. in addition, let's talk about the u.s. border patrol, not just social programs, but the u.s. border patrol is not a defense agency. they could see a cut of 30% at this time. how about rail inspections? that's another example of something getting a lot of attention. there's a lot of concern about how safe our rails are, and rail inspectors would also face a 30% cut. in short, everything in government could see that kind of cut. republicans argue all these

agencies are open funded and they have been for years. democrats say no, we are talking about real lives, real people, real children, real senior citizens. that kind of spending cut would not affect social security, but it would affect government agencies, those kind of things. >> that is important to point out. can we talk about the calendar with members leaving for the memorial day break? how much time do they have to do a deal? >> this is when you have to suspend logic, to be honest. if they don't have a deal in the next two days, they will be forced to reckon with a short-term debt left and may have to do that anyway. that's why these deals are critical. i have enough time to write the bill. they have enough time to pass it in the house barely. stay tuned. >> thanks so much. good to see you.

stephanie: here are the latest headlines. the founder of the far right oath keepers militia was sentenced to 18 years in prison for seditious conspiracy. that's the penalty get in the january 6 investigation. in court, he was defiant as he referred to himself as a political prisoner. later, the judge sentenced another oath keepers leader to 12 years in prison. the u.s. territory of quam is cleaning up from a category four typhoon. much of the pacific island is still without electricity and water service. trees and power lines were left mangled. some parts of the island were inundated with more than two feet of rain, but there were no recorded deaths or major injuries. >> i am so glad we are safe. we have weathered the storm. the worst has gone by, but we are going to continue experiencing tropical storm wind

up to 40, 50 miles per hour, so i ask you again to please stay home for your protection and safety. >> the typhoon is expected to reach the philippines late friday and could threaten taiwan next week. the u.s. and south korean militaries began live fire exercises today to simulate an all out attack from north korea. missiles pounded a mountainside near the border between the two koreas while tanks maneuvered and fired. the drills went ahead despite the north's threat to retaliate. back in this country, a texas state house investigative committee today unanimously recommended impeaching attorney general ken paxton. paxton is accused of multiple illegal acts, including misspending office funds. the house could vote as soon as tomorrow. if impeach, paxton could be forced to leave office immediately. still to come, president biden nominates air force general cq

brown to become chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. florida governor ron desantis' presidential announcement highlights twitter's transformation under elon musk. and the supreme court scales back the scope of the clean water act. >> this is "the pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington and in the west from walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. >> a decorated air force general could soon be the next highest-ranking military officer in the u.s. the president's pick to replace general mark milley as the general joint chiefs of staff is both strategic and symbolic. >> at the white house today, president biden announced general charles q brown junior, known as cq, to lead the joint chiefs of staff. >> general brown has become known for his signature approach .

accelerate change or lose. general, you are right on. >> if confirmed, brown would become the president's senior military advisor. >> my visor down, my mask up, you don't know who i am. >> commissioned in 1984, brown piloted f-16 fighter jets, a persona played up in this air force recruiting add. >> while general brown is a proud, butt-kicking american airmen, first and always, he has always been an operational leader in the joint force. >> brown rose through the rksce to becometrweapons school. he served as commander of the u.s. air forces and commander of air force assets in the middle east. three years ago, the four-star general was confirmed as air force chief of staff. he has credited other black men who paved the road before him,

including the late colin powell, the first black joint chiefs of staff. if confirmed, the two top positions at the pentagon would both be held by african-american leaders, a first not by coincidence, president biden made the announcement on the anniversary of george floyd, a moment that caused so many black men to reflect on their own experiences. at the time, general brown weighed in with a deeply personal video. >> i'm thinking about the pressure i felt to perform. i'm thinking about wearing the same flight suit with the same wings on my chest as my peers and then being questioned by another military member, are you a pilot? >> it was a rare moment of candor in it button up military culture that has not been immune to the political divide. >> for more on the nomination, we turn to someone who knows him

well, retired general vincent brooks. his last assignment was as commander of u.s. forces in north korea, and he joins us now. general, it is great to have you on "the newshour." you have worked with general brown for years from what i understand. what is he like as a person and as a commander? >> first, great to be with you. congratulations to general brown on his nomination and to the president for making a great choice. general brown is a great individual, a true professional. he is liked and admired by his colleagues, his peers. he's extremely experienced in different regions of the world in combat action, and in senior leadership in lots of places, and he has been in the joint force for a long time, so he is superbly qualified for this. a great guy. >> how does having been in command in both the pacific and middle east distinguish him from

other top brass? >> not everyone gets that kind of experience. if you're fortunate, you might get a chance to command in one region of the world. general brown has had the privilege of being able to command in multiple regions of the world. he has stood face to face against north korea as a more junior commander. he has led at senior levels in the middle east against the islamic state, standing off against iran with deterrence, conducting operations throughout the middle east in iraq and afghanistan, and as you mentioned, in the entire end of pacific region where he gained tremendous experience in relating to all the air forces throughout each of those regions. >> i imagine in those roles, he also played an important role communicating with our allies' militaries. this seems particularly important as far as countering china's military. is that right? >> that is certainly right.

the united states is a global leader. it is globally engaged, and countries around the world turned to the united states for examples of professionalism as well as skill in the military art, so his engagements with other air forces around the world and other senior and defense leaders, not just air forces, will be very important to his role as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. >> when it comes to internal problems in the u.s. military -- and there are many, including the reports of sexual assault, in the air force in particular, reporting of sexual assault rose significantly last year when he was air force chief. is he doing enough to address this persistent problem? >> well, it is a persistent problem, and it requires constant attention and work to try to drive that behavior away. teammates don't do that to one another, and i know he takes it very seriously and will continue to do so as chairman of the joint chiefs, but no one person can change that.

they can certainly create the tone from the top, and i'm confident he has done that and will continue to. >> how would you contrast general brown with general milley, who during the end of president trump's term, really became a lightning rod for partisan politics? how is general brown different? >> both are members of the joint chiefs of staff, so they work loosely with each other on a day to day basis, but contrary sometimes to what hollywood shows, generals are no cut -- are not all cut from the same cleyot bh.ng their personality d experiences to bear. i would say general milley is known to be a bit more expressive than general brown is known to be, but both provide superb professional military advice to the secretary of defense, to the national security council, the homeland security council, and to the president, as required being the

senior military person in this role, and i'm confident that part will be consistent when they bring their personalities to bear in different ways. >> do you think if he becomes chairman of the joint chiefs of staff he continues to represent the black experience vocally in the way we saw him do in that poignant video after the death of george floyd. does he continue to address systemic racism in the military? >> he can do so from a very important position, again, setting the tone from the top as he and the other joint chiefs talk about what is important and as they inform the service secretaries and secretary of defense, as they communicate with and to congress. this is an important role to certainly be representative, and he is clearly a distinguished representative for african-americans, but he is more than that and he will bring all these characteristics to bear as he helps to try to change the culture in the military and to an extent impact

the culture of society as well in a favorable and positive way that fulfills his view and so many of our views of what is ideal for the united states where we do have inclusion, cooperation, support, advocacy, and we are not walking past one another and ignoring challenge -- ignoring talent in our population that exists. >> thank you for joining us with your perspective. i want to clarify for our viewers that general brooks was the commander of u.s. forces in korea, obviously, not north korea, as i misstated earlier. thank you. >> x, stephanie. ta>> george floyd's murder at te hands of police in minneapolis three years ago led to a widespread push for police

reform and racial justice. we sat down with the new police chief in minneapolis to talk about the challenges of the past few years and the department's yeutter. next ryan o'hara was sworn in as the 54th police chief in minneapolis last november and took over a department at the center of calls for changes in policing. he came from newark, new jersey, where he led efforts to bring that city's police department in line with the federal consent decree. on smart, minneapolis reached a settlement with the department of human rights with legally binding reforms, including limits to traffic stops and use of force and emphasis on de-escalation and additional training. a federal consent decree is widely expected here as well. we asked about the work of limiting the kinds of changes

those require. >> they don't think of it as a checklist of stuff to do and then prove to a monitor that you have done it. i think it is more about trying to change the culture of the agency. the number one thing we need to do besides trying to rebuild the sworn staffing levels would be to engage community in this process to make sure that communities feel like they have a voice in what the training would look like in the future. i think that's going to be a very difficult lift. i think it will be much harder than it was simply because people here have been through so much trauma that has not been addressed, but also i think this is a much more engaged community in a lot of respects than what i have seen previously. >> you have to deal with several political realities. one of which is resistance from the mpd union, which has already expressed skepticism. the union had is quoted as

saying some of the training could be a potential logistical nightmare, for example. >> i think she's correct. the agreement we have with the state and any kind of decree is a gargantuan task, but it is the way forward and what we have to do, and i'm ok if it takes some time to figure that out. i'm ok if we have to engage community, take a little bit more time to make sure we are getting things right and that we are not jeopardizing public safety when we are trying to implement all of these kind of gargantuan requirements. >> last month, the city of minneapolis reached multimillion dollar settlements with two people who alleged excessive force by derek chauvin years before he fatally knelt on george floyd's net. in a statement, o'hara called shelving cash -- chauvin and national embarrassment but said there was a systemic failure within the minneapolis police department that allowed unjust

and brutal policing. >> it is frustrating that three years after george floyd's murder, we are still dealing with the conduct of the former officer who murdered him. the most frustrating part is different supervisors had reviewed a former officer's conduct previously, and clearly, as an agency, we were not able to hold that former officer accountable, and that's why i think it is very clearly a systems problem as opposed to just trying to scapegoat one or two persons here or there. that is why i think it is much deeper than just dealing with that one former officer. >> you go out on patrol frequently. what can you tell us about your tenure thus far, both being on the street and elsewhere in this job? >> after everything that has happened here, i think people in this community are entitled to a police chief that is engaged, and in order for me to be

engaged, i need to be present. over the last three years, police officers here experience an incredible amount of trauma. to some degree while people were leaving the job, i think there was definitely on some level a retreat from doing proactive police work. there was a fear. i think if we are going to be in a position where we are going to address serious street crime in a very real way, i have to be able to tell the cops, i need you to do your job. at the same time, we need to be able to earn people's trust. regardless of whatever settlement there is, regardless of the consent decree, we are going to continue to be present for the community and we are gog to continue to be the police. >> the higher than before the pandemic, the city has seen a drop so far this year in homicides, shots fired, and carjackings compared to the same time in 2022. o'hara credits the officers who have stayed with the department.

>> the cops who work in minneapolis today who have in here, who have eured, just like all our residents, all of this trauma and all this unrtainty, possibly disbanding the police department and all these things -- i think they are incredibly resilient, but we are definitely at a critical point where we need to keep pushing forward because i think there's a great risk we could slide back. >> that push forward has not been without missteps. earlier this month, "the minnesota reformer" reported o'hara personally signed a job offer letter for a former virginia police officer rick who -- virginia police officer who repeatedly struck and tasered a black man in 2020. do you worry something like this undermines the department's

efforts? >>f course. that is a very big concern of mine. obviously, i w not happy about it once i learn fully about that person's history, but, yes, the matter remains under investigation. the actual process remains under investigation because how could the, if you will, the rubric for conducting these hiring and all the different lawyers of review that there is in the process -- how could something like this not be flagged? i can assure the public we will be making some very significant changes to the process, to the structure of how these things are conducted to make sure something like that does not happen again. >> you would like to have a few hundred more officers quickly. what attributes might we see in this new crop that did not exist in prior ones? >> police departments everywhere are having real challenges with staffing levels and finding recruits, but i think nowhere else in the country is it more

pronounced than here in minneapolis. i think there is a very negative perception that is not connected to the reality of who the minneapolis police officers are today and what we are trying to accomplish. i want to be very intentional about trying to focus on young people from minneapolis who have connection, who have love for our city, but also on those candidates, wherever they may be, that want to be part of getting this right. >> thank you for sharing. we appreciate it. >> reporting is a partnership with an under told stories project in partnership with the university of minnesota. a new investigation by the marshall project in "the new york times" sheds light on an alarming culture of abuse inside new york state prisons. for decades, awesome -- officer disciplinary records were kept secret from the public in new york state.

that was until 2020 when lawmakers enacted police reforms in the wake of george floyd's murder. the marshall project reviewed those murders and found hundreds -- the marshall project reviewed those records and found hundreds of instances of abuse and mistreatment and failure to hold guards accountable. one of the reporters behind the story joins me now. over the course of your reporting, you spoke with guards, former prison officials, incarcerated people, and you found a culture of abuse. tell me more about what you discovered. >> we found that when the department of corrections in new york state a tentative fire officers that they accused of abusing people that were in their custody or covering up that abuse, that they only succeeded in actually getting rid of that officer and firing them in about 10% of the cases. we were surprised to see such a low rate of success when the state had found that this abuse had occurred, according to them. in addition, because we were told that this disciplinary

database we had obtained only represented a fraction of the excessive force that occurs in prisons, we also analyzed over 160 lawsuits in which prisoners were awarded damages as a result of their lawsuit, and we crosschecked the nam of the officers accused in those lawsuits and found that 88% of those cases, the state did not even attempt to discipline the officers that were accused. >> one incident of abuse and subsequent cover-up involved a man named virgil -- melvin virgil. we should say this video we are about to show is fairly graphic. you got access to bodycam video where you see an officer beat mr. virgil many times, but despite photo and videos showing guards striking him repeatedly, the officer involved reported that he delivered one strike against mr. virgil, and other officers' reports supported that claim. tell us about the case and how

it fits into the broader culture of abuse that you reported on. >> the attack on melvin virgil was unique because there was actually footage of what occurred, which i had never seen body camera footage from inside a new york state prison before. the case illustrated the ways the officers all basically came together on the same story of what happened, which is clearly contradicted by the video, and that story actually became the official narrative of what had happened in the melvin virgil case, which is that he had attacked the officer, and just one strike had been used in an attempt to get him under control and that he remained combative, but in the video, you see him struck six times in the head, and you also see him go unconscious at the moment that officers claim he was fighting back against them. another point is that melvin virgil was sent to solitary confinement for this particular incident, and the officers'

cover-up was adopted as the official narrative in the prison as what had occurred, despite there being video evidence and despite officers being allowed to watch the video and offered an opportunity to change reports, which they declined. >> when it comes to accountability, your document more than 290 cases where the state try to acquire officers or supervisors who had mistreated prisoners. ultimately, just 28 of them were fired. what are the barriers preventing the system from holding these officers accountable? >> one of the biggest barriers is the unions' contract. in new york state, corrections officers are part of a very strong union. the contract the state has agreed to has a very strong unionn place. one that we focus on in particular is the arbitration process in which an arbitrator gets to decide if an officer loses their job or not. it is not up to the prison agency.

we found that arbitrators in abuse cases ruled with the officer three quarters of the time that the state was attempting to fire someone for abuse or for covering abuse, so this resulted in a lot ocases where people the state was trying to firework put back into their jobs inside of prisons and back in control of other people. >> big picture question for you as we wrap up our conversation -- why should we care about what happens inside prisons? >> prisoners are among our most vulnerable people because they rely on others for their basic needs and for their safety, but people also get out of prison, so if we don't care about them being in there, maybe you care about when they are getting out and the way they are treated while inside really affect how their life goes when they come back to the world we all inhabit on the outside. there's also all the people affected by that, the families and friends of people were

frustrated and a lot of people that work there, the thousands of people who endure the stress of knowing that there's a job in which they might encounter something that they think they would want to report, but the culture itself is one in which you are supposed to cover it up and maybe your own safety relies on your willingness to cooperate and go along with coverups, so it affects a lot of people. quick thank you so much for joining us. -- >> thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you so much for having me. >> the u.s. supreme court has again weakened the authority of the environmental protection agency. today's ruling limits the agency's power to curb water pollution. >> this case goes back 15 years when the epa, citing the landmark clean water act, block

in idaho couple from building a house on their property. all nine justices agreed the epa did not have the authority to regulate these homeowners' property, but there was stark disagreement over how to determine when a body of water can and should be protected. to understand the implications of this ruling, we are joined again fight the energy and environment reporter for "the new york times." this was a unanimous ruling by the court that in this case, the epa had overstepped, but the majority went much farther and went much deeper cut into the epa's authority. what did they rule? >> essentially, they said that the epa, which until yesterday had the authority to regulate most of the weapons in the united states, to protect the wetlands and to punish, sharply

reduced the amount of wetlands that would be subject to federal protection, that in order for a wetland to be subject to any kind of federal protection regulation, it has to directly join up to or be connected to a larger body of water. that might sound obscure, but that decision cuts out probably more than half the wetlands in the united states. >> people think of wetlands as sort of swampy areas that who knows what they really do. can you remind us what they really do? >> sure. a lot of wetlands really do fall under the definition of swamp or bog or soggy area. wetlands are important for two reasons. they are a major source for biodiversity. many species make their homes in

wetlands. without protection, you might risk losing that biodiversity. wetlands protect humans, too. they are a really important source of protection from floods. if they dry up, if they are filled in, if they disappear, their buffer for flooding, that is a role they play that is becoming a lot more important now in the era of climate change when we are experiencing a lot more flooding. >> there would be no land to soak up all that water. >> exactly. those are the roles that wetlands play, and that is kind of why the clean water act had envisioned federal protection for wetlands. >> who is chairing this ruling today? obviously this idaho couple is, but who else will be heartened that the epa cannot regulate press effectively? >> there were a lot of groups that had been pushing legally

and politically for the overturn of abuse regulations and protections. farmers, real estate developers, golf course developers. not surprisingly, former president trump had pushed really hard to roll back a lot of these regulations because they really did get in the way of what a lot of people could potentially do with their land. without these protections, it takes away penalties for filling in wetlands and developing. it takes away penalties for farmers who could have been penalized for using fertilizers or pollutants that run into wetlands. a lot of those areas that were protected, those are groups saying now we can do what we want this plan. >> president biden today in a statement that was very critical of the ruling, said he's going to try to redouble efforts to try to get states, localities, and tribes to step up

enforcement of water protections. how likely is that to make a difference? >> now that this federal protection has been lifted for so many millions of acres of wetlands, and a lot of these areas at this moment have literally no legal protection whatsoever from pollution. it absolutely is possible that states could step in and writing new state laws or rules to protect the wetlands, but more than 20 states already have statutes in place that say state rules cannot be more stringent than federal rules, so if we were to see that happen, it would probably only happen in about half the states if at all. president biden made that call. legally, it is hard to see how that would happen in about half the country. >> thank you so much. >> always happy to be here.

>> now and look at the transformation of twitter and concerns around it. elon musk has been clear that he sees his platform as a space for free speech, especially for conservative voices who he feels have been silenced too often. that was part of the backdrop went florida governor ron desantis formally launched his presidential campaign, but the event was plagued by lengthy delays and problems, which must acknowledge while it was happening. >> we are having difficulty handling the load here. it is really going crazy. >> it should be noted the number of users listening to the event was in the hundreds of thousands, not the millions or

tens of millions that would typically overwhelm the service of other social media giants. we are going to focus now on musk's plans and vision for twitter. you could argue that ron desantis' unorthodox decision to announce his presidential bid on the twitter spaces audio stream even with its technical issues, that that really cements twitter's newfound status on the right. how do you see it and how do you see the transformation of twitter under elon musk's leadership? >> i think it is true that elon musk is making a bid to be the place where the right wing of american politics can go. when he first put in his bid to buy twitter, he made very clear he thought twitter had made bad decisions about who was allowed to be on the platform and who was not.

twitter had previously been very assiduous about keeping off people that had been spreading misinformation about the election or the corona -- coronavirus pandemic. he saw those moves as the wrong way to go and he reinstated a number of people and in doing so, drew a distinction that is important to recognize. fox news got in huge trouble for spreading election misinformation with this lawsuit filed by dominion voting systems, but twitter does not have that same problem. it is a different sort of place where people can going get information, even false information, and that provides a power to musk within the right wing conversation, and i think he is darting to wake up to the possibilities. >> let's talk more about the potential impact on the media. you mentioned fox news. ratings have declined dramatically since the network parted ways with tucker carlson. now you have tucker carlson and the team behind "the daily

wire," which is a conservative media outlet -- they are now saying they are going to produce content for twitter. what is the impact? >> it depends on how it goes. what would have said the impact for a major presidential candidate making his announcement on twitter would have been big up until about 6:00 yesterday. it certainly is the case that there are a lot more people who have more access to viewing tucker carlson on twitter then they did on fox news. if it's the same audience is another question. it is not clear that the same demographic groups that would watch fox news would also tune in to twitter, which means to some extent these audiences -- they are going to have to create new audiences. >> the value of any social group is the communities it create. twitter became this online network of people who were able to circumvent mainstream

channels to have their voices heard. that gave rise to any number of powerful social movements not just in this country but around the world. you maintain one of the reasons why elon musk wanted to buy twitter was to dismantle those communities. tell me more about that. >> i think particularly one community, which is the community of media and journalists. elon musk has like man major business owners are very wealthy person, has had an adversarial relationship with press. i think he quickly realized that if he took ownership of twitter, he would be able to mute or muffle the extent to which the media were powerful on social media platforms. twitter was uniquely a home for the media relative to other social media platforms elon musk was able to effectively make the media less powerful on twitter simply by giving them less prominence, and that at the same

time empowers people who want to present information that is not necessarily accurate, that is potentially unfettered or partisan and allows them to be on equal playing field with people who actually try to be objective about what they are saying. >> in preparing to speak with you and doing the research, i looked up some pew research center data, and they found democrats are more likely than republicans to use twitter. almost twice as many democrats on the form than republicans. might that change under elon musk's leadership? >> i think that almost certainly will change or has changed already. i think one of the things -- what happened after musk took over and twitter started to change policies was used up a lot of people from the political left start to drop off and use it less frequently.

younger people are more likely you social media platforms and are more likely to vote democratic than older people, so by changing the demographics of who uses twitter, it also changes the politics of it, and i think that present an opportunity for people who are engaged and excited about twitter who may not share musk's politics defined somewhere else they can congregate. >> thanks so much for your >> thank you. >> a korean american author and musician best known as the lead vocalist of the alternative pop band japanese breakfast tonight shares her brief but spectacular take on making the ordinary beautiful. >> my mother was a homemaker and i was an only child. we were really bonded very early on.

told me it was 2014 she she had stage four cancer. being the only daughter, i knew i had to kind of take everything on my desk, completely clear it, go home and be with her from beginning to end. in six months, i suddenly found myself unemployed, married, without a mother, and how strange for my father. i don't think i could quite wrap my head around everything that had happened until i started putting it down on paper. the first line is "ever since my mom died, i cried," and i think the book is very much about answering the question about why you cry in a grocery store. h mart is a korean grocery chain. i drove to h mart to be surrounded by her language and the foods that she loved and

that we shared together. i don't think i thought much about her impending death as a part of losing my culture until after it happened. i think i probably realized that once i went to a korean grocery store, then i realized i could not just call my mom anymore to ask her, like, what brand of seaweed we used to buy or what kind of soybean paste we had at home. i would say food is a big part of the way my mother expressed her love, the way she expressed her affection was rooted in actions. it was remembering the kinds of food that you like and the foods you did not like and what you would want after a long day, and i don't think i realized that unti i was a little bit older. it has been fun to see people from all different types of cultures comparing different grocery stores or different types of food or different food memories to the book. one of my favorite things that has come back to me about the book is children who have told me, "i read your book and i

called my mom. i took her out to lunch or cook this is my brief but spectacular take on making the ordinary beautiful. >> you can watch more brief but spectacular videos online at pbs.org/newshour/brief. that is "the newshour" for tonight. >> join us again tomorrow night for more on the conditions migrants a facing as they went in mexico for a chance to seek asylum here in the united states. also have u.s. border communities are being affected by the change in immigration policies. >> thanks for spending part of your evening with us. >> major funding for "the pbs newshour" has been provided by -- the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions and friends of "the newshour."

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and friends of "the newshour." this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> this is "pbs newshour west" from weta studios in washington and from our bureau at the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. ♪

♪♪ -"cook's country" is about more than just getting dinner on the table. we're also fascinated by the people and stories behind the dishes. we go inside kitchens in every corner of the country to learn how real people cook, and we look back through time to seeow history influences the way we eat today. we bring that inspiration back to our test kitchen so we can share it with you. this is "cook's country." ♪♪ today on "cook's country"... bridget makes banana pudding pie... jack talks vanilla... i share the story of augustus jackson, the inventor of eggless ice cream... and morgan mes no-churn ice cream. that's all right here on "cook's country."