laura: trump's historic federal indictment. >> today an indictment was unsealed charging donald j. trump. >> it's election interference at the highest level. i'm an innocent man. >> the justice department charges donald trump with 37 charges relating to classified information and unseals its case in a reveal and damning indictment. trump makes history as the first former american president to be charged with federal crimes. but he's also the current republican presidentable frontrunner raising political implications, next. announcer: this is "washington week." corporate funding is provide by -- >> for 25 years, consumer cellular's gold is to provide

wireless service that helps people communicate and connect. we offer no contract plans and question find one that fits you. to learn more visit consumercellular.tv. announcer: additional funding is provide by ku and patricia yuen with the yuen foundation committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities, sandra and carl delay magnusson. robert and susan rosenbaum and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. laura: good evening and welcome to "washington week." i'm laura barron-lopez. our country is in uncharted territory. after former president donald trump became the first former american president to be charged with federal crimes. the justice department unsealed its indictment against trump charging him with 37 felony

counts relating to his handling of classified information. those counts range from violating the espionage act to obstructing justice. and the allegations are stunning. among them trump stored boxes of classified documents in a ballroom and a bathroom. he acknowledged to mara lago guest that is he had classified document and note his ability to declassify them and he told his attorney to hide the documents. they have been investigating trump for nearly seven months and he spoke about it today. >> we have one set of laws to this country and they apply to everyone. laura: trump will go present himself in front of a judge and will plead not guilty. we have hugo lowell, heather caygle, devlin barrett and ed

o'keefe. thanks to you all for being here tonight on a historic night. devlin, the indictment is 49 pages long. and a decent amount of it, we knew there are some pretty shocking elements too. what stood out to you the most? devlin: i think one of the really important parts of this indictment is it lays out time and time again trump in his own words saying that he clearly understands the rules of classification, but also clearly does not want to give these documents back, these classified documents back even though people around him are clearly telling him he has to. so there's a degree of repeated insistent thanes he should. and there's a degree of arguing in both privately and among his friends that the rules don't apply to him that he know that is there are these rules and he doesn't care. laura: so it's that willful retention of those documents. hugo, when we're talking about the sheer volume of the documents he had, one thing i want to note is that he kept

classified information from a host of agencies, some of those federal agencies mentioned in the indictment are the central intelligence agency, the department of defense, the national security agency, and there's also the level of sensitivity of these documents. so how damning is the information here? hugo: i think the constellation of the agencies that were listed were stunningful but when you look at the document that is they list in the indictment, there were some document where is even the classification markings are redacted. that speaks to the extent and the sensitivity of some of the material that trump had kept at myrrh lago. we knew there was top secret stuff and special -- mar-a-lago, we knew there was top secret stuff and special documents. i think that speaks to a whole different category. laura: and the justice department has been extremely care to feel show how

independent they are. this is a special counsel. and the justice department is saying we're not talking to the white house about this. what has president biden said so far. >> as little as he can. he was asked about it just hours before the foreman president announced the indictment who said what would you say to those that the justice department is being used for political means. he pointed out that throughout his presidency, he has never publically or criticized of weighed in on a potential charge of somebody involved in justice department matters. arguing sort of indirect they are that's exactly what donald trump used to do. he politicized the department. he fired various personnel for making decision that is he didn't disagree with -- but that he didn't agree with and biden has done the opposite we learned that they learned about it that the president was not given a heads up. nobody ever is whenever there's some new trump league manner.

we always asked did you guys get a heads up. no, we learned about it from you guys. they keep senior deptment officials literally and figuratively out of the white house as much as possible and focus on loftier political goals that has nothing do with the legal work they continue to do. remember, it's not just former president trump. it's his own son who remains the subject of an investigation up in delaware. and in that situation would be even more awkward for the president and the attorney to be talking about spending time together in anyway which he just simply has not done. laura: and where president biden has tried to show that he has -- has made clear that he's not talking to the justice department at all over in the house. house republicans are trying to get in on this. house judiciary chairman jim jordan requested that merritt garland send over all the

documents related to mar-a-lago and speaker mccarthy got behind him. what is jim jordan doing here, heather? heather: i think obviously, they're trying to be bulldog first the president, right? they control this one chamber in congress. this is the megaphone that they can use. it's quite interesting. this is a request that he has sent for several months since house republicans took over in january. of course, the justice department is not gng to comply. they weren't going comply before. they're not going to now. but it allows them to go to the base and former president trump saying we're doing everything question to defend you. we are out here staking this out and they keep using terms like double standard of justice. w're going ensure that others are held accountable. they compare this to president joe biden and his classified documents, which, you know, he handed over as we were discussing before the show came. hillary clinton is another one we've seen come up several times today. the interesting thick is to zoom out just a little bit and think about the politics from

mccarthy. he was facing a revolt from his right flank this week. this is a try to try to nullify that a little bit. by saying look, i'm standing up for trump. i'm doing what i can. but again, it's a little more than playing defense. laura: it's a bit of interference. heather: but they're not going to get the documents they're requesting. they're in a megaphone but they're in a crowded field. laura: speak of the difference between president biden's special counsel investigation an trump's, president biden was not trying to obstructor retain these documents after -- after they had been asked for by national archives. so hugo, i'm hoping that you can explain basically like the three big buckets of the -- the -- the charges in here, which is they have to do with the espionage act. they have to do with obstruction of justice. lay those out for us. hugo: when jim, trump's now former lawyer who resigned and

talked about these charges, i think he was right to defend the three buckets. you have test pionk age, the 793 chargeser, the retention of information. you have the full statement charges whether it's with walton or trump or his lawyers. and then you had the obstruction charges to make sure that whether in response to the subpoena or otherwise the justice department could not retrieve the classified documents. i think by splitting them up it makes them much more straightforward to present something like this to a trial jury. think prosecutors like stories and easily digestible if you present them in these three lanes it is much easier. >> there's no specific mention of the espionage act in the indictment, correct? hugo: what he's been charged with section 793, part of the

espionage act. and specifically the part of retention of national defense information. i think there's a lot of information about classified documents and whether he could declassify. but all of this is a side show at -- at issue is did he violate national security laws? did he retain document that is could cause damage to the national security and basically things that are military documents. and in both instance that is the justice department laid out there appear to be things that could harm the national security. laura: and you mentioned, devlin, he's the other person charged. he w military valet for trump when he was president and became his personal aide after trump left the white house. what's the significance of those charges? devlin: it's two-fold. they are charged together with conspiring to obstruct this investigation that's the

connective tissue for how all these things relate to each other. so that's one. two, walton is the guy who carries the boxes. as you read through the indictment, you see how according to prosecutors as soon as they start getting these demands for these documents, trump starts giving orders to move boxing around. taking boxes to the bedroom and bring ago whole bunch of boxes back into a storage room when they know the f.b.i. is going to be there the next day. would that really suggest and paints a time line of -- of significant obstruction and wall's case, they noticed that he just flat-out lied to them when they asked. this is a guy who took a picture of boxes with stuff just spilling out of them because there were so many boxes in mar-a-lago. and -- and when he's asked by the f.b.i., did you ever move boxes, he allegedly said, boxes? i don't know anything about any boxes. [laughter] >> but they' not the only two

guys involved in this conspiracy, probably, right? devlin: the prosecutors and agents have definitely questioned overs including other mar-a-lago employees and there are suspension that is have been raised about other mar-a-lago employees but none of those people are charged. they may or may not be charged. they're trying to get through a case as quickly as they can. you saw jack smith say we need do this st. there's a bunch of reasons for that. but i think frankly, one of them is everyone understands he's a candidate for president. everyone understands the primaries are next year and the nominating conventions are next summer. it's hard to push a trial fast. but that's what jack smith is going to try to do. laura: we've seen the majority of republicans rallying behind the former president including rivals of his for the 2024 nominations. ron desantis, the florida government new york. nikki haley, tim scott. all three of them came to trump's defense even before the

indictment was unsealed. and then others like chris christie and asa hutchinson took shots at trump. hutchinson obviously, the most harsh saying that "trump should end his campaign." you were just in iowa. do you think that this indictment is going to have any political implications for the former president in this primary >> probably. but when and how and to what extent we'll have to see because -- and it also depends on how big the field is going into the caucus and the primaries early next year. are they still by then? we'll see. if he's got a ceiling of about 35, 40% of the republicans with him, all the others look at those and go there's a simple math saying that the majority of republicans are looking around. and in our conversations of voters that are not trump supporters. they acknowledge there's stuff there that that they're tired of. whether it's the legal, the behavorial, the personal, the

just him and the way he conducts business, they're looking for somebody else. desantis threats at number two in part because of all the action he's taken in the last year as a conservative big state governor. the others are in the mix because they like the theory of nikki haley or think think tim scott is an interesting guy. notice what they were doing in their defense. they weren't outright say saying i believe donald trump. they're raising the process questions that house republicans are raising two-tiered justice system. he's been unfairly targeted. if he wasn't running for president, they wouldn't care. that's popular with the republican base. that's what they want to hear. they believe there has been favoritism in elections an prosecutions but they're not outright saying i necessarily agree with him. and i wonder as details come out, as things come out next week, do any of those who are defending him perhaps start

changing their tune and raise questions whether or not he should be the guy? desantis especially has said, the juvenile way he attacks his opponents, the way he has conducted business is why he lost the swing voters he needs this in the general election some of he's making the broader argument that trump shouldn't be involved. he knows if he's going to win this primary, he's got to make some pitch to those voters in the event that trump isn't involved or he can convince them. >> he's pull ago card out of trump's playbook saying this is a weaponization of the government. senate republicans and house republicans, they're often split. and they are split again it seems on this. >> yeah, absolutely. we notably have not heard from mitch mcconnell today. we have not heard from the number two republican john thune. we have hrd john ba razzo who tries to cut a more conservative

cloth and tries to stand out. and he before the indictment was unsealed that did not mention donald trump but made the same claims as double standards. but 100%. senate republicans have been much more open in seeing that donald trump they don't want him as their candidate. they don't think he can win. again, they have firsthand experience with this, right? a lot of folks including them expected home to win the senate last cycle. democrats were not only able to hang on to it but pick a up a see i think it's a very interesting dichotomy on the hill because we have that's house republicans and being his loud defenders and some edging away from him and some are them are saying openly he's not our guy. laura: there are so many things we can pick up from this indictment. i know a lot of things have been reported by the two of you. but some of the dialogue here in

this july 21st, 2021 interview that -- conversation that he had at new jersey and he says that the document that he's referring to it's confidential. he says as president i could have declassified it. i didn't. it's still secret. what you do now about how trump's defense team is going to come back at this? >> first, we have to find a lawyer to do it. they've lost a lawyer. their main lawyers in part becaus he's such a hard client to defend. and these are hard facts to defend. i think what you see -- what you see in that exchange in that tape recording that's so important is the first word is "willingful." what he's conveying in those comments are his will. and that can be devastating to him for all of the evidence in this

indictment, the tape may not be the most important evidence as important as it is. but it shows his state of mind and in cases involving white collar crimes and in cases involving false statement. state of mind is super porn and that's why that's so important. laura: and hugo, you've mentioned that -- well, you just said devlin that he needs to find an attorney. you said that he can't find a national security attorney. how harmful is that to his defense? hugo: they've been asking around far long time. when one of the lawyers recently came off the team, citing differences with other counsel and trump's in-house counsel on the team. around that team from what we understand boris epstein was casting around trying to find a national current lawyer to defend trump because these are national security issues. it's fine to have someone like todd blanch, excellent lawyer. you know, previous in the

southern district of new york. but he's not a national security lawyer. and the espionage charges so specific. trump's lawyers have had beenic act ybe we could cast out that some of the documents at issue maybe their not national defense information. but they're talk about it it in general terms and they haven't settled on a specific defense. and that's proving to be very difficult going forward. laura: and heather and ed, to both of you, esstially, republicans followed trump into the breach in 2020 and 2022. yes, they gained seats in the house. but overall, it's been a losing strategy and yet, they're following him again into the breach. ed: i mean, that is certainly the risk. and i think that's -- i've been truck by the way senate republicans who i think took it on the chin most of all last fall because of the trump blast radius have behaved this week in that most of them have reserveed

judgment, kept quiet or have been step tepid in their defense. they understandhe the the real general election. not primary election but general election potential here and that is that they would lose yet again this. entire indictment if people read it they go back and read his political discourse in 2016 speaking of state of mike. it's a reminder of people blaming others for doing bad things, he himself is now accused of doing. >> one of the most incredible parts of the indictment is at one point he's described as praisingillary clinton's lawyer for deleting 20,000 which is the main attack he used against her not to say that -- it isn't more complicated of that the actual fact of how thoseer mails got delete but the hypocrisy, that the lawyers are trying to spell out a hypocrisy

in which -- what he has done in his life. >> and this political reporter base odden that trip to iowa that that hypocrisy is what is driving voters mad and why increasing numbers of republicans are looking elsewhere. laura: heather, your assessment to what this means for runs will? heather: that is trump problem. they haven't been able to figure it out they actually have a much more favorable chance to win back their chamber than house republicans do in 2024. and that's why we're seeing wherthey are i don't know. it's -- it's an interesting dynamic to watch and cover. laura: hugo, where -- where happens next? trump is headed to miami tuesday to appear before the court. eileen cannon which, unfortunately, weren't able to talk about is going to be the judge here. where do you see this headed next? >> yeah, well, trump first has

some political stops on saturday. he's got some conventions. he's still very much in the political for someone who is under indictment, you know, he's cast ago very care-free image, right? he will have to appear in federal court. he's going for his arraignment. it's going to be quick like these things are. he won't say anything. todd will deliver the remarks and he are will out. and then who knows? it's going going to be a long pretrial schedule typically months. i think what prosecutors signaled today we're going try to push that up. laura: we've got to leaf it there. there are so many legal things to touch on. but thanks to our panelists for joining us and sharing your reporting. thanks to all of you for watching at home. be sure to tune into pbs news weekend on saturday for a look at what you need to know about tickets and the spread of lyme

disease. i'm laura barron-lopez. announcer: corporate funding for "washington week" is provide by -- >> for 25 years consumer cellular has been offer nothing contract wireless plans designed to help people do more of what they like. our customer team can help a plan that fits you. to learn more visitconsumer cellular.tv. >> additional funding is provided by the ku and patricia yuen, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities, sandra and carl delay magnusson. rose herschel and randy frese. robin and susan rosen rosenbaum and from contributions from i havers like you. thank you. -- from viewers like you. thank you.

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