♪ geoff: good evening. i'm geoff bennett. amna: and i'm amna nawaz. on "the newshour" tonight, former president trump pleads not guilty in federal court on dozens of charges, accused of illegally retaining and withholding classified documents. geoff: as ukraine continues its counteroffensive, russia intensifies its assault with missile strikes targeting the hometown of ukraine's president. >> we were asleep, all the windows were shattered. i am still confused how it all happened. at first, there was a loud bang, the cars caught on fire, and the window here was blown out. amna: and, far-right house republicans demand more control over major issues, potentially ensnaring any legislative movement in the chamber. ♪

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contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. amna: good evening and welcome to "the newshour." former president donald trump today pleaded not guilty to 37 felony counts related to his alleged mishandling of classified information after leaving the white house, launching the next phase of the federal criminal case against him. geoff: the former president arrived at the miami courthouse this afternoon to respond to the justice department's historic indictment, alleging he illegally retained secret documents, obstructed the government's efforts to retrieve them, and made false statements on the matter. today's arraignment was donald trump's second this year, but his first on federal charges. william brangham was in the courthouse today for the proceedings and joins us now. william, you were in the courtroom today, one of about 30 journalists with that kind of access. no cameras, no photographs were allowed. take us inside the room. how did the proceedings unfold?

william: for such a short in every -- an extraordinary day of what could be the beginning of the most consequential federal criminal trial in american history, the day unfolded in a rather routine fashion. the formerresident entered the courthouse through an underground garage. he was booked, fingerprinted. they didn't need to photograph him because the federal marshal said they have plenty of photographs already. he went up into the courtroom where the charges were read against him. his not guilty plea was red and his lawyer said he pleads not guilty to all of them. for the most part, the former president sat stoically still, arms crossed. he did not look over at the special counsel jack smith, who was probably 25 feet to his left. so, the not guilty plea was read. there was some discussion about what witnesses could and could

not be spoken to. overall, it was a relatively calm proceeding for this truly remarkable day. jack smith on his way out clapped one of his colleague's on the shoulder and they left the courtroom. geoff: miami officials have been assuring the public for days now that they had extensive plans to prepare for a potentially massive crowd. what was the scene outside the courthouse today? william: that's right, that was the fear going into this and there was a large police presence out here. we got here early this morning and there was a smattering of trump supporters with their usual signs supporting president trump. the numbers continued to grow as the course of the day went on. most supporters that we spoke to of the former president came to argue this is an unfair prosecution being run by a justice department that they see as biased. as far as we saw, there was no sign of violence. there was one biden supporter

who apparently lunged in from of the former president's motorcade, but that was the only sign of real druption. we did see a lot of people coming up to support the government's position, who argued that the allegations in this indictment are very severe and pertain to some of the core issues of national security and military affairs. they were here to support the prosecution side. there were some people who came simply because this is a moment in history, a remarkable one and they wanted to witness it. here is a smattering of some of the voices we heard today. >> the public understands it's all politics, and the public is really upset. so, my argument is want to let the president know there's a lot of people out here support of him coming by, the cars walking by that are not the press and that he has a lot of great support here. >> these are serious felonies that he's been charged with.

so, you know, if you or i had been charged, we'd already be in jail. and he shouldn't be any different. >> i chose to come here today because, you know, it's an interesting, historic day. i haven't been in miami for a decade. and it just so happens that the president of the united states is being indicted for crimes, federal crimes. it's not a usual occurrence. so, i thought it would be great to just go to this historic day and participate in it. geoff: a magistrate oversaw today's arraignment. the procedural part but he's not overseeing the entirety of the case. what happens next as this federal case proceeds? william: judge aileen cannon is the judge who has been assigned this case. barring a plea deal, what will happen now is the pretrial phase of maneuvering from both sides. what the witnesses will be, what the evidence is, and what they get to hear as far as the jury goes.

one issue that is coming up is this potential recusal of judge cannon. you may remember, she was appointed at the tail end of the trump administration and she ruled early on in the classified documents case, and she agreed to appoint a special master to oversee the surveillance of those documents. that hindered the prosecution's case. the 11th circuit really slapped down the judge for her ruling in that case and implied that she was being overly deferential to the former president. the question becomes now tha she's overseeing his actual trial, should she recuse herself? there's no evidence or anybody i have spoken to that believes she will actually recuse. if she chooses not to, then special counsel jack smith and the department of justice could choose, if they wanted to, to ask for her refusal and another court would have to rule on that. that does not happen very often and often an unsuccessful

appeal. the question also is if you asked to have a judge removed my case and they are not removed, then you are sitting through a lengthy trial with a judge you have publicly accused of being unable to be impartial in this case. so, it is certainly a fraught issue. as far as what happens tonight, the former president is heading back to new jersey to his golf club in bedminster. he's having a prescheduled fundraiser. he will again rally the troops and make the allegation he is the victim of an unfair prosecution. geoff: william reporting on donald trump's arraignmentn federal charges. thank yo amna: for legal analysis of today's events, i'm joined by former federal prosecutor renato mariotti. joining us. we watched an unprecedented moment today, a former president facing criminal charges by the same government he wants led -- once led. as you watch today's

proceedings, what struck you? renato: one thing that was very interesting, there wasome discussion about witnesses being spoken to and actually the two defendants in this case and what they could talk about. walt nauto was there. he was not arraigned today because he didn't have a lawyer to represent him. nonetheless, he was present in the former president was warned not to speak to him about this matter. i thought that was interesting. it is also fair to say there is a certain gravity. we heard from one of the passersby on the street how this is a moment in history. it was a moment in history and a moment where you saw the former president of united states treated the same way that so many other people in this country are, every year, thousands of people are charged federally and ultimately have to

see their day in court in front of a federal judge. amna: tell me about mr. trump's defense team, led by todd blanche who recently took on that lead role. also, chris kies. what do we know about them and what are they likely to take as next steps after today? renato: mr. blanche is a very well-known criminal defense attorney. he's a new york attorney, not an attorney from florida, so this is a bit out of his lane there. nonetheless, a very well regarded white-collar criminal defense attorney. he does not have national security experience so that is one thing i would not be surprised if trump tried to add someone who has experience dealing with the very unique statute that governs discovery in national security cases. mr. kies, very experienced in the state of florida. there will be discussions of the

government regarding discovery. there's a protective order that will be unique to national security cases. a very special order that makes sure national security secrets are kept secret. there are also security clearances that would be obtained for the defense team. there will be discussions about timing and scheduling regarding this case. we have heard jack smith talk about a speedy trial, but the criminal justice system in the u.s., particularly national security cases is anything but speedy and there will be a lot of discussions about discovery, about deadlines, and ultimately about potential motions that can be filed. amna: you heard william's reporting about questions and concerns around the judge appointed, judge aileen cannon. tell us a little bit about her. in a case like this, how much influence would judge cannon have in that timeline, as you expect it to play out and what is seen and not seen? renato: enormous amount of

influence. the trial judge has an incredible amount of influence over the timeline. they are allowed to manage their own dockets and courts of appeals rarely overturn their decisions regarding scheduling. in addition, they have evidentiary control over the evidence that comes into trial. they make those initial rulings. the court of appeals has a very deferential standard when reviewing those evidentiary rulings. she also has the opportunity to decide which jurors can get seated. she could decide whether or not a juror could be too bias or not. she could make a decision to toss out the entire case once the journey is in panel, which would not be subject to a court of appeals review. that would be very serious. she has enormous power, and i think there is a great and accurate summary a moment ago of the challenging situation the government is in given that recusal is far from a guarantee

and fraught with significant challenges. amna: what about potential jurors in this case? this is florida where trump has broad support, also in miami-dade county which republicans won in the midterms. it is impossible to separate the politics. how are both sides viewing potential jurors in this case? renato: great question. an ordinary person were on trial facing this indictment, i would say there's not much of a defense. it would be very challenging. the best defense might be to delay the case as long as possible. with the former president, it bears noting that a jury has to be unanimous in order to convict the president on any count. just one juror who feel strongly about it can really flip that script and ultimately create a hung jury that forces the government to either retry the case. that has happened before.

a hung jury on all but one count because a single juror held out. it is popular for a -- possible for popular politician like donald to potentially sway a juror. that is a real wild card. amna: 30 seconds but i have to ask you because mr. trump speaks tonight. could what he says in public impact this case? renato: 100%. you see in the indictment, his words quoted, used against him. words on the campaign trail and presidency. there's no question jack smith and his team are watching closely. video recordings and ready to slap an evidence sticker on it. amna: renato mariotti, thank you for your time. renato: thank you. ♪

amna: now to today's other top headlines. american consumers got a bit more of a break on inflation in may. the labor department reports retail prices were up 4% from a year ago, but that was the smallest increase in two years. it was also well below april's increase of 4.9% from a year earlier. at the same time, the so-called core rate, not counting food and fuel, climbed .4% from april, remaining stubbornly high. police in denver say a drug deal gone bad apparently triggered a mass shooting last night as the city celebrated the denver nuggets' first nba championship. nine people were wounded in a dispute involving several people. it happened about a mile from the basketball arena. the suspect was among the wounded and was arrested. tens of thousands of people across western india and pakistan began evacuating the region today ahead of a powerful

cyclone. it's expected to blow out of the arabian sea on thursday, striking india's gujarat state with winds topping 110 miles an hour. some coastal villages have already eared out and officials in pakistan said they intend to evacuate 80,000 people before the storm hits. >> the storm is coming. water will enter our house. so, we are moving to higher ground. i am taking my belongings and children. we'll come back when the water recedes. amna: the cyclone is expected to pass through some of the same pakistani districts that were inundated by devastating floods last summer. the u.s. military reports 22 american troops in syria were injured sunday in a helicopter crash. it happened near the town of shaddadi in the northeast. u.s. officials said there's no indication that hostile fire was involved. at least 900 u.s. troops are in syria at any given time, assisting kurdish-led forces against the islamic state group.

an autopsy has determid that u.s. olympic champion sprinter tori bowie died from childbirth complications, including respiratory distress and eclampsia. the medical examiner said the 32-year-old was eight months pregnant and in labor when she died in her home in orlando. she was found days later. bowie won three medals at the 2016 olympics and the 100-meter race at the 2017 world championships. meanwhile, wall street advanced today, waiting for the federal reserve's next move on interest rates tomorrow. the dow jones industrial average gained 106 points to close at 34,172. the nasdaq rose 87 points. the s&p 500 added 24. and, a passing of note. actor treat williams died monday in a motorcycle accident in vermont. his career covered nearly 50 years, and 120 film and tv roles, including in the musical

"hair" and the tv series "everwood." treat williams was 71 years old. still to come on "the newshour," thousands of reddit users go dark to protest the website's new pricing plan. we examine the differences in the many high-profile classified documents cases. actress poorna jagannathan talks about her role in "never have i ever." plus much more. ,♪ >> this is the pbs newshour from weta studios in washington and in the west from the walter cron joualisat arona ateki snil vechity.ooof geoff: ukraine is in the early stages of a long-planned counteroffensive to win back roughly a fifth of its homeland from russian occupiers. but today, as kyiv intensified its ground attacks, moscow struck back with air assaults, which devastated a residential area in central ukraine. russian missiles raining down on

the hometown of ukrainian president zelinski earlier apcene ue workers battled the blazes through the morning in a five story residential building. the strikes killed at least 11 people, the highest toll from any single russian attack since april. those who survived to describe the horrors of the nighttime assault. >> we were asleep, all windows were shattered. i am still confused how it happened. at first, there was allowed bang. the cars, on fire and the window was blown out. it was bad, seriously. geoff: it came as ukraine continues its counteroffensive. broadcasting footage of what appeared to be early phases of his long planned military action. today, kyiv's deputy defense minister outlined four full points of his army's counteroffensive in the south and east. military analysts say ukraine is striking at fortified russian

positions along hundreds of miles of trenches, brsnefields. >>hese defensive fortifications are only as good as the soldiers in them. geoff: we asked former u.s. army europe commander ben hodges about whether the russian lines will hold. >> i am waiting to see are the russian troops better at defense than they were in the attack? if they don't do any better than they did in the attack, then it won't matter how many trenches there are. i also see on the trenches, none of them have overhead cover. so, people that are in those trenches when the artillery starts, they will be killed. geoff: independent video confirmed early signs of ukrainian breakthroughs in the southeast. footage showed military vehicles driving dusty roads near rio taken villages -- near retaken villages. a r ukrainian flag over a grocery store. >> three days ago, the russian

forces were still here. we chased them out. glory to ukraine. this village was under russian occupation for 1.5 years but these are ukrainian lands. geoff: moscow claimed its own rewards, releasing video of what appeared to be a captured german-made leopard 2 tank and a u.s.-made bradley fighting vehicle. >> there's a difference between them getting on the offensive, which clearly started, and the beginning of the maney tech. when we see two or three armored rates, that is 600 armored vehicles of all types. then, i will think that looks like main attack. even then, it could be a fake to draw russian attention away from the real maney tech. geoff: the nato secretary-general met with president biden and said ukraine's counteroffensive would send a strong message to russia. >> what we do know is ukrainians

are able to liberate more land and the stronger hand they will have at the negotiating table, and more likely it will be that president putin at some stage will understand he will never win this war. geoff: earlier today in moscow, vladimir putin reiterated that after 15 months of war, none of his objectives have changed. >> all in all, there are no significant changes in terms of the goals we set for ourselves at the beginning of the operation. nothing has changed today. 6ilro unffighting raacro soldldin dee o wk after to a dastrsthsouthern region. ♪

amna: speaker kevin mccarthy struck a deal to quell internal rebellion in the house republican conference this week. the result of a handful of hardline members' dissatisfaction with the debt ceiling compromise. lisa desjardins brings us up to speed on what happened and what it means for the house gop. good to see you. help us understand. how has a small group gained power to control the workflow for the house of representatives? lisa: this would be like me taking over the show right now when i am not even the anchor. this comes down to the margins in the house. in the house right now, 218 votes is what you need for a majority. republicans have 222. so, they've got the majority but let's talk about these 11 members who figured out -- look at those 11 members. they have the power to control the majority. there they are. these members have a few things in common. summer members of the house freedom caucus.

how they voted for kevin mccarthy in theirst speaker votes, most of them voted no. when you look at these names, it is a group that does not have a name of its own. it is not the freedom caucus but these are the names i watch when i look at the voting board. amna: why is this group taking this stand now? lisa: this is coming out of the debt ceiling deal as you said and it happened spontaneously on the floor. they realized they didn't have the votes to oust mccarthy but did have the votes to freeze the house floor for a week. that is what they did. how is house leadership responding? today, the house majority whip tried to put a good face on it. >> as with every team, the republican house majority has had to learn to work together to build that success. as with every team, you win some games and you lose some every now and then, but you always come out stronger. that's what we have done. lisa: house democrats say they

think the republicans are in shambles. amna: this is not just about internal party politics, there are real-world implications. why does this matter? lisa: it is important. to get the house moving again, which happened in the past few hours, kevin mccarthy struck a deal with these 11 members. i want to go through some of the elements of that deal. first of all, he agreed to a vote to reverse a gun restriction. that is significant for conservatives but ultimately, we don't think that vote will change law because of the biden white house. he also agree to a $100 billion worth of additional spending cuts on top of that debt ceiling deal. what could that mean? if republicans do with the way they want, that would mean about 30% cuts for everything except for defense and veterans. now, this is not just an idea right now. the house appropriations committee as we speak are moving all of their appropriations and spending bills, and they are

cutting it down to that lower level. lower than the deal with president biden. what we think will happen is these cuts will be passed by the house potentially, and then the senate will pass a very different deal, then we could have, yes, another physical standoff in september -- fiscal standoff in september. this is heading towards another fiscal cliff. amna: what does this mean for what's ahead of congress? lisa: we are in for a roller coaster ride. speaking to some of these members come i spoke to one today, ralph norman, is this case-by-case? do have a deal for months now? no, this is case-by-case. we could come back next week and say we don't like something speaker mccarthy is doing and we can block another vote. the house floor will be very dramatic and it could be hard to predict. also, speaker mccarthy does not have, let's say, job security right now. he has to walk a very careful line and he's going to have very

difficult decisions to make when it comes to that potential government shutdown debate that we could have at the beginning of the fall. amna: you have been covering how republicans are responding to the historic indictment and arraignment of former president trump. tell us about some of the actions you have seen. lisa: this was significant today. at the top of the list, i want to talk about senator j.d. vance of ohio. he has made a threat and i am trying to find out if he's actually put this in process yet. to block every the biden administration nominee to the department of justice, while this trial is ongoing. it seems to be his implication. right now, there are two nominees on the senate calendar. one is a u.s. attorney, the chief prosecutor for a district in mississippi. the other is a woman who was nominated to head the office of violence against women act. both of those nominations could be in limbo, as could any other

prosecutors that the president wants to nominate. that is one thing. in addition to that, we know some house republicans want to vote to defund the special prosecutor, make sure he cannot go ahead with the prosecution. that is unlikely to pass, but they are taking moves to censure people who have been involved in past investigations like adam schiff. there could be a houseboat against him even though he's not involved in this. but have few powers to really stop this prosecution, but members of congress, fired up republicans are throwing a lot, any weapon they can at the board now and we have to watch it carefully. amna: they are all rallying behind former president trump. lisa covering it all. thank you so much. lisa: you are welcome. ♪ geoff: more than 6000 communities on the popular social networking forum reddit have gone dark as moderators protest the company's decision

to charge some third-party apps for the use of reddit data. the move is controversial with many of the apps having to shut down as a result, but the reddit ceo doesn't appear to be backing down anytime soon. reddit often refers to itself as the "front page of the internet" and is one of the most-visited sites on the web. bobby allyn covers business and technology for npr and joins us now. it is great to have you here. i feel like we should start with a glossary of terms for our viewers who are not as familiar with this stuff as we are. reddit is a discussion forum, and subreddits are the discussion threads. there are subreddits on everything from gaming to gardening to sports to science. help us understand how this protest started and what these moderators are trying to get from it. bobby: reddit has been around for almost 20 years and has been one of the most popular online

forums on the web, as you mentioned. for the longest time, reddit didn't have its own official mobile app so that meant a lot of third-party app developers introduced apps where people can browse reddit on their phones and the only way they can do that is if reddit allowed access to the data from the third-party apps. that is how it has worked for years. but recently, reddit said we should start charging those third-party developers for access to our data. the bills could be as much as $20 million a year. these are small app developers. i spoke to one guy who runs apollo, he is based in nova scotia. he's the only person who runs this app. he cannot afford $20 million a year. in response to this, thousands and thousands of subreddits, these discussion groups, decided to go dark. if you try to access one of these forums today, you can't. this affects people who don't use reddit.

if you google something about a baseball game, something about your favorite movie, something about skateboarding, you will not get results from reddit. reddit is a wealth of information and conversations about practically everything. by having this many discussion groups go dark, it is really affecting large swaths of the internet. geoff: on that point, companies that are developing artificial intelligence technology are using data from reddit to basically teach a.i. how to talk and have human interactions. what better way to do that than to use data from a discussion forum. is reddit not getting paid by the likes of openai and microsoft when they use their data? bobby: so, steve huffman, the ceo of reddit, has justified the new charges this way. he has said popular tools like chatgpt scrape reddit in order to train its ai models. steve huffman says i run reddit,

this company has been around for almost 20 years, it has never been profitable. he is trying to takehe company public later this year so he has an eye towards making investors feel good about potentially investing. one way to do this, come up with another revenue stream. he says these big companies that are running these large language models like openai, like google and microsoft, they should be paying for all the data they are accessing from reddit. that is how huffman has justified these new charges. small developers of third-party apps say how about us? we cannot afford a $20 million bill a year. geof $20 million a year is real money. how will this be resolved? the people who love reddit love it because it has not been profit driven. it was not really seen as a commercial entity, but now the ceo is trying to change course here. bobby: hard to know how this is going to shake out in the end.

we do know that reddit has said they are not really interested in coming to the negotiating table about these new charges. the blackout protest, the boycott is only going to last 48 hours. we will see if they try to extend it a little longer to get more leverage, to bring reddit to the negotiating table. assuming they don't, i think we will see large parts of reddit move to other online forums. that is going to be a real hit to this company because last time i checked, it is the 20th most popular website. it is a real powerhouse. to drive a stake into the heart of one of the most popular forums on the web is a really big deal. this does not just affect people who use reddit. it affects people who google anything they want to google every day and stumble upon something on a forum that actually was pretty interesting. if you are going to have many parts of this community moved to other websites, it will really divide the internet in a way that will affect all of us. geoff: bobby allyn covers

business and technology for npr. thank you for being with us. bobby: thanks. ♪ geoff: with donald trump in a miami courtroom today, the first ex-president ever indicted on federal criminal charges, the chorus of his republican supporters asking but what about the democrats has grown even louder. laura barron-lopez reports on why the doj charged mr. trump for his handling of classified material, but not others, like hillary clinton, joe biden, and mike pence. >> this is the most political thing i've ever seen. laura: in response to the federal indictment of donald trump -- >> isre a dferentnd for a democrat secretary of state versus a former republican president? i think there needs to be one standard of justice. laura: republicans are attacking the justice system. >> the ridiculous and baseless

indictment of me by the binding administration's weaponized department of injustice will go down as one of the most horrific abuses of power. laura: the justice department charged trump with 37 felonies, including 31 counts under the espionage act for knowingly retaining national defense documents after repeatedly being asked to have them over. >> joe biden has classified documents, he mishandled them as vice president. laura: republicans are crying hypocrisy. gop primary voters agreed. three quarters say the prosecution is politically motivated. according to a recent cbs news poll. >> witchhunt. >> i think it is a complete waste of time. >> they did nothing in hillary's case. laura: trump and his allies are pointing to other cases where classified material was found in the possession of former government officials but not prosecuted, in particular hillary clinton.

>> i did not send nor receive classified material. laura: some 30,000 emails were found in a personal email server in her new york home during the 2016 campaign. clinton cooperated with an fbi investigation, which recommended no criminal charges. >> although we did not find clear evidence that secretary clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence they were extremely careless. >> hillary clinton's case is complete lead different. laura: an attorney who focuses on national security issues. he says trump and clinton were investigated under two espionage act provisions, and clinton was dealing with emails, not marked classified documents. >> most of the information that was deemed to be classified was actually deemed based on the content after people reviewed it. those who thought it would not necessarily have suspected there

was anything classified in it. laura: as for the investigation into president biden and mike pence, there are key differences. in trump's case, the doj charged eval onto classified materials r after a year leaving office. blroom. both biden and pence found classified material in their homes, but unlike trump, both turned them over immediately and invited the fbi to search for others. >> when you talk about president biden and former vice president pence, you are talking about complete transparency. laura: david kelley is a former u.s. attorney of the southern district of new york. >> you screwed up, you are not supposed to take these documents and gave them back, we are good. when you go ahead and you are told you have documents you are not supposed to have, and then you conceal that, and then you live about it, that's the criminal problem because that shows knowledge and intent to

violate the law. laura: the doj recently cleared pence, and a special counsel investigation of biden's ongoing. the trump indictment alleges he conspired to hide documents from the government, returning them only after a subpoena and a later fbi search. dozens of other classified documents he had taken to florida, but turned over to the national archives earlier were not included in the charges. >> the compounding factor in the trump indictment is the obstruction of justice. he was told he had documents, he kept them anyway, and then took steps to keep them from the national archives. laura: while trump and hundreds of classified documents in florida, the special counsel narrowed its case to 31 pages which include 21 with top-secret markings from the cia, nsa, pentagon, and department of energy, among others. according to the indictment, the documents contain secrets about u.s. nuclear and military

capabilities, and defense capabilities of foreign countries. >> some have said the goldilocks documents. laura: these 31 documents were chosen carefully by the special counsel. >> it is not too secret and it is not too challenge people, meaning these are documents that probably anyone who looks at them would understand as a layperson that the information is incredibly sensitive. laura: it will soon be up to a florida jury to decide if trump will face criminal consequences. i'm laura barron-lopez. ♪ amna: the fourth and final season of netflix's wildly-popular series "never have i ever" is leading the platform's streaming charts across the world. i recently spoke with one of the series lead actors, poorna jagannathan, about the show's success and how it's paving the way for more diversity in

hollywood as part of our arts and culture series, canvas. welcome back to the newshour. it is good to see you again. poorna: such a pleasure. i remember we did the release of season one. it is a pleasure coming back. amna: we are talking four seasons later now. the world is now watching the final episodes of what has become a multicultural phenomenon on television. how are you feeling about it coming to an end? poorna: as you're talking, it is occurring to me it has gone from extraordinary season one to season four. the diversity was so unheard of. now, we are seeing so much more representation on streaming platforms and scripts i am getting. the beauty of it going from -- much more ordinary is the journey we wanted.

amna: did the reaction over the last four seasons surprise you? the show creator shared recently this screen grab that seemed to show all the number one shows across netflix around the world. "never have i ever" was number one across country after country. did that surprise you? poorna: it really was really surprising to see something like that. we didn't know what we were making, we just knew we were having fun. unbelievably intimate experience while making it. we didn't know who would watch it, why people would watch it. it felt so radically diverse. we took such a big risk. even when it was number one, we didn't expect that at all. amna: when we first spoke, you talked about the connection you felt to this role. you play an emigrant mom. you -- immigrant mom. do yourself are an emigrant mom. does that make it harder to say goodbye to this role because of that connection?

poorna: the funny thing is as the seasons progressed, it became closer and closer to who i am. when i got this role, she was really funny, parents a different way that i part. super strict. i'm not. you k example, the remarriage. or getting ready for college, that happened this yr. all of us, the show has taken on our lives, and very meta. i do believe this is the role of a lifetime for me. amna: there are so many detailed culturally specific moments throughout the show, whether it comes to traditions or celebrations or even the terms of endearment you used to refer to other people. i wonder did you and the writers say we have to explain this in some way to her audience, or did

you just think we are going to do it and they will catch up? poorna: what i love about this show is there are no footnotes. no translations. there is an element of cultural specificity that is never explained, and that is what makes it so beautiful and so authentic. for example, the wedding jewelry that i wear is literally what i wear in my real life. i'm south indian. or there was a scene where we said goodbye to the mom. we hug her. our parents and grandparents, we do the bow. ok, we have a dinner scene, what do you want to eat? we would discuss food. one of the only sets i have been on where there is so much

specificity, authenticity. amna: we have seen a number of both television shows but also movies, animated film in which asian american characters and stories are not on the fringes, they are the centerpiece. they are the focus. we saw that with "everything, everywhere all at once." even with animated films, why do you think we are seeing that now? poorna: i think it started from "never have i ever." i actually believe what we are seeing now is because of shows mindy has created. where people of color are the center of those stories. and they are doing so well. netflix uses it as a lighthouse example of what a show can do in terms of story, in terms of diversity of storylines and casting. once something has been green lit and does well, the

floodgates open. i believe we were there because of "crazy rich asians.." i think it is a domino effect. it is so high-risk when you do something like this. there is an audience. i think audiences are demanding to be seen, to be reflected. streaming services like netflix are trying to meet them. amna: you have more work coming up where you have very different characters. you will play a bad guy in your upcoming netflix film. the scope of your career has been interesting to watch because you have played different characters, in an industry where women of color are not necessarily granted all kinds of agency to make decisions about the roles they play. you are not necessarily given that many roles. a 50-year-old brown woman setting new peaks. how do you do that? poorna: it is the industry. i'm not a creator, i am a performer. i come to scripts, i don't

create them. there are women before me who are doing the part. men are dying to write is out. women are like, that is not going to happen. the narrative continues. i'm walking in the shadows of these women who i truly know the trajectory i have is because of them. just opening doors with l their might. and i am going through those. amna: one of the stars of "never have i ever" which is ending after four seasons. congratulations. we will be watching what you do next. poorna: thank you for always supporting me and the show. it is a pleasure to be back. ♪

geoff: cormac mccarthy died today at his home instead of a new mexico. his books often focused on loss and bloodshed set everywhere from the american west to a post-apocalyptic world. they were often with moral ambiguity which included some of his best-known works such as "no country for old men" and "the road." critics likened him to faulkner, hemingway and melville. joining us as the author of many novels and a literary critic himself. thank you for joining us. cormac mccarthy was one of our greatest writers, known for his violent and bleak depictions, the dark view of the human condition, but you nevereally wrote an uninteresting sentence.

what informed his approach to writing? >> well, cormac mccarthy was kind of a hybrid of the great american novelist of the last 150 years. for some reason, he channeled in an authentic way, not that he was copying others, everybody from melville on. he was a very masculine novelist. that needs to be noted. his last novel was narrated by a female character, something he had been preparing for for 50 years. he was very settled in his tradition. he absorbed all the great writing and somehow he managed to channel it in a new way as though it came from his deepest self. it was as though he was a river that all the other rivers flowed into. geoff: he was relatively obscure for most of his career and when fame and acclaim eventually found him, he really a board

talking about -- abhorred talk about his books. is it fair to say he was the most celebrated reclusive writer since j.d. salinger? walter: we have a few celebrated reclusive writers in this country, but mccarthy, who did get around. he just lived a very private life. it was not as though he was completely hiding out and didn't want his photograph taken. but, he was hard to meet. you have to go to santa fe. you had to seek him out. he was not pushing america away. he just wanted to do his business and his business was the page, and that was where he focused himself. geoff: you reviewed all of his books. what lines or passages stuck with you, resonated with you? walter: i cannot claim to have reviewed all of them. i have reviewed quite a few of them.

mccarthy wrote every genre. he wrote a great suspense novel, "no country for old men." a great historical, almost horror novel in "blood meridian." and a dystopian science fiction novel in "the road." that is what i think of most of these days because it dealt with war and an uncertain future, and perhaps an apocalypse on the horizon for a country much like the u.s. it is a very haunting book. at the very end of it where he looks back at the american landscape through a clear stream back into the primeval, pre-civilization of this continent really sticks with me now. geoff: how do you think mccarthy and his body of work, how will it be remembered? walter: it is going to be remembered with extreme fondness, respect, and i think

affection. he was a popular novelist. once he got going with all the pretty horses in the early 1990's, he became a best-selling american novelist whose books were made into movies and whose work became familiar. when he died today, it was not just literary people who started texting me and saying can you believe it? it was people of all kinds. the general reader. we don't think the general reader exists in the united states anymore, but she does, he does and they do,. cormac wrote for all of them. geoff: how does his influence show up in contemporary writing? walter: well, in some ways, he was a writer of ancient prose. he sounded at times like the bible, at times like ancient philosophical texts. he really combined knowledge of the past and present in a way

few do here. i think he will be remembered as a kind of gold standard for a very strong, minimalist american prose. his early books were anything but minimalist. if you look at "blood meridian," it was a book that might have been written by a mad prophet of the desert in the year 0. geoff: walter kirn, thank you for joining us as we acknowledge and pay tribute to the many contributions of cormac mccarthy. walter: thank you. amna: don't forget there is more online, including an effort to collect oral histories and mementos from lgbtq+ residents of missouri to preserve queer history in the state, on pbs.org/newshour. geoff: and join us again here tomorrow night as we look at how republican voters in one early voting state are reacting to the

federal charges against former president trump. and that's "the newshour" for tonight. i'm geoff bennett. amna: and i'm amna nawaz. on behalf of the entire "newshour" team, thank you for joining us. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- >> actually, you don't need vision to do most things in life. yes, i'm legally blind and, yes, i'm responsible for the user interface. data visualization. if i can see it and understand it quickly, anyone can. it's exciting to be part of a team driving the technology forward. i think that is the most rewarding thing. >> people who know, know bdo. ♪ >> for 25 years, consumer cellular has been offering no contract wireless plans designed to help people do more of what they like. our customer service team can help find a plan that fits you. ♪

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one giant leap for mankind. hello, everyone and welcome to "amanpour and company". here's what's coming up . >>ukraine's counter offensive intensifies. president zelenskyy and we've got our guest from kyiv. >> is a detailed indictment and very damning. >> boris johnson asked me to do something i was not prepared to do. political tremors on both sides of the pond. donald trump's indictment, boris johnson resigns. a formal discuson. the top adviser for tony blair. we miss a cultural, historical lines. this is y american chinese will look at the same question and come to different conclusions. >> the new