laura: president biden's foreign and domestic priorities. >> we want to make sure that ukrainians have sufficient artillery in the fight. laura: the u.s. announce us in and controversial aid to ukraiae at critical time in its counteroffensive against russia. just days before president biden is set to meet with top european leaders in an effort to expand nato and rally support for ukraine. plus -- peter: bidenomics is just another way of saying restoring the american droam. laura: before taking off, the president makes his case for re-election in an early primary state. >> identifying donald trump as having men compete against women in beauty pageants is fair game. laura:nd the trump-desantis feud hets up again. next. >> this is "washington week."

corporate feunding is provided by -- >> for 25 years, consumer cellular's goal has been to provide wireless service that helps people communicate and connect. we offer a variety of plans and our u.s.-based customer service team can help find one that fits you. >> additional funding is provided by koo and patricia yuen through the yuen foundation, committed to embracing differences. sandra and carl delay-magnuson. robert and susan rosenbaum. and by viewers like you. thank you. laura: good evening, welcome to "washington week." i'm laura barren lopez. the president is providing more aid to ukraine this time in the form of cluer munitions.

they're meant to boost the ukrainian military's slow-going counteroffensive against russia. to the move is sure to upset members of biden's own party. the trip to europe could have consequences for the war in ukraine a the president's legcism weeks after a mutiny left president putin weakened, biden will attend a key nato summit in lithuania. there he's aiming to bolster the coalition against russia and increase the number of countries in the security alliance. still, delegate and -- delicate and complicated dynamics are at play among nate no members work sweden's ascension to the alliance blocked by turkiye and no clear timetable for ukrainian membership. joining me to discuss this and more is david sanger, a white house and national security correspondent for the "new york times." and here with me at the table, susan page, washington bureau chief for "usa today."

sabrina siddiqui is a white house reporter for the "wall street journal." and margaret talev, senior contributor at axios and part of the group for democracy and journalism. david i want to start with you. let's begin with the cluster munitions announcement today by the white house which president biden told cnn was a difficult decision for him to make. it's controversial, and it took the white house a long time to come to this decision and they were reluctant about it. why did they do it now? david: they did it now, laura, in large part because ukrainians are getting desperate. they haven't run out of ammunition right now, but they are burning off 7,000, 8,000, 9,000 rounds of artillery every single day. and the united states and its allies simply cannot keep supplying them with that level

of what they call unitary munitions. in other words, an artillery round that just goes and lands in one place but the pentagon has been sitting for years on this very large mountain of these cluster munitions. and as you said, they are banned by treaty by well more than 100 country, including some of america's closest allies. britain, france, germany among them. who signed on to this treaty in 2008. and the reason they are banned is that they distribute a grandpa of small bomblets over several football fields' worth of area and these bomblets are like small hand grenades. they go off and can do grievous harm the concern is some of them are duds and get picked up later on, frequently by children, years after a conflict is over. and you can imagine the kind of awful suffering and horrendous

injuries or death that that causes. so the administration pushed this down the road as far as they could but they hit the moment where it was really the only option in order to keep the ukrainians going and the ukrainians said they'd rather have this than lose to russia. laura: the ukrainians have been asking for these cluster munitions for a while now, margaret. how significant is this announcement, and do you think the political backlash here will be sustained or more muted against president biden? margaret: it is significant, it's a potential lifeline or at least a big help for ukraine. but also it's not what ukraine really wants which is nato membership. as president biden heads into this nato meeting, this is -- i'm not going to say this is a consolation prize but it is certainly less skin in the game for the u.s. than the one sort of big help that ukraine really wants which is either entrance

into nato or at least a timetable to get there. on the home front politically for president biden, there's a group of 14 senate democrats who objected to this preemptively on the front end. we're seeing several house democrats coming out tooth, christy williams a veteran may be one of the most important but many from all over are saying the u.s. will lose its moral high ground. in the white house's calculation, cluster munitions already are being used. they're being used by russia as well as ukraine. and while there is certainly the risk of collateral damage, civilian damage, thousands and thousands of civilian already have been killed and the calculation is that this is a better protector of civilian life in ukraine than not to give it to them. susan: there was another point that was important top the

president's calculation. ukraine is going to drop these bombs on ukrainian territory, not russian territory. the ukrainians will have a huge incentive to clean up whatever duds there are when this is over. that's one of the key things white house considered. laura: that's a key point, the white house said they did not come to this decision easily. it's a debate going on for months. in order to get to a decision they did secure some assurances from ukrainians that they will not use these munitions in densely populated area and specifically that the ukrainians will be able to assist in the demeaning after the war is over. the administration was also emphasizing that the dud rates for their munitions is less than 3%, significantly lower than that of russia's which are estimated to be about 40%. with the uncertainty of war, how

much of those assurances will be met remains unclear but it's also an acknowledgment, i think, by the administration that not only is ukraine very quickly rung out of artillery shells, but in order to continue and make duanes in this counteroffensive and move past what is largely a static battlefront, theyeed not just the equipment that the u.s. has already been provide bug they need new types of weapons in order to move the ball forward. laura: another big part of the trip coming up for the president as he heads to the nato summit, david is the question of ukraine's membership which margaret mentioned, to nato. what is the status of their potential membership, and you've reported that the white house has essentially been reluctant to fast track that membership. why are they so reluctant? david: that's right, laura. they are reluctant because they believe first of all that no one

will let ukraine into nato in the middle of an ongoing war that would trigle article v, of the nato treaty which would bring everybody else in nato, or could well bring everybody else in nato, into a direct conflict with the russians. and so far, president biden has said we're going to help the ukrainians but we're not going to start world war iii. that means no direct superpower conflict. you could argue that with all the weapons we've provide including now the cluster munitions we have done everything but put our own folk into this. but what the ukrainians want as margaret suggested before is either admission or a clear timetable. and the u.s. and the germans have made the case, how can you provide a tame table -- a timetable when you don't know how long the war is going to last? and how -- what kind of assurances would you like to have first that ukraines truly going toe merge from this a democratic nation? we're all in great support of

them but theyon't have a long history of democracy and they are operating under martial law right now. people forget that, but martial law was triggered by the invasion. it's a pretty complicated issue. and i think what everybody is trying to do is come up with some kind of wording that would help assure that president zelenskyy comes to the meeting, he has not said yet that he would. he's holding out here. and that also would indicate some pathway of how quickly they could get there. and that negotiation has been going on for months now and it's coming right down to the wire. laura: david, the other country that -- whose membership to nato is still in question is sweden. and their membership is being blocked by turkiye and hungary. do you think there will be significant progress on that at this summit next week? david: i suspect this week --

that sweden will get in just like finland did. it was important for finland to get in quickly, they have a superior military and they have a huge contribution they make to the intelligence effort because they, you know, watch so much of the seas, 800 miefs border with russia. swede season important as well to get into this. those two countries of course have been out of nato far long time. i suspect at some point you're going to see president biden and president erdogan of turkiye meet. the fact of the matter is that the u.s. is simply not giving turkiye f-13 -- the f-16 fighters that it wants right now and the congress is -- has made it pretty clear they're going to block this unless turkiye relents. turkiye's concern is what they believe is swedish support for dissonant greurntion ethnic

groups they believe are opposing erdogan. laura: margaret, going over thie summit is what played out over the last few weeks with the wagner group against vladimir putin. how much do you think that is going to be a topic of conversation as the leaders meet? margaret: for sure on the sidelines it'll be a huge topic of conversation. i think what gets said officially at the microphones will probably be a little more circucircumspect. on the oneand ukraine has had a much harder time with the counteroffensive and slower progress. on the other hand, the incident with prygozhin showed a lot of weaknesses and vulnerabilities on putin's part. i think that'll become part of the western alliance's conversation. you asked about politic, domestic politics as well. at home, the ukraine war has been much more of a wedge issue than republicans than for democrats. i think that helps insulate biden. as long as there's no u.s.

forces on the ground whose lives are at risk, americans are worried about the economy. most americans support the ukrainians and their red line is they don't want u.s. troops killed. laura: susan, biden will be giving a big speech when he's on this trip, in lithuania, at the conclusion of the summit. the white house is saying it will be about america's work to restore alliances and be working alongside allies. this was a bit of his 2020 pitch as well. do you think voters are paying attention to this message that he is sending when he's abroad? susan: if you think about unintended consequence, ukraine won't become a member of to nato in the near term but ukraine has pulled nato together and given nato a mission when ther was a period of time where there was questions about what is the role of this western alliance in what has become a new world order. now we're back to the west confronting russia. one of joe biden's fundamental

appeals to voters last time around was that he was an experienced foreign policy man with a network of contacts and an understanding of these international relationships that he could bring to bear. there was a fair amount of repair that needed to be done after the tumult and change of the trump administration. so i think this is going to be an -- the big speech he makes, makes that argument that he's provided that leadership. does it matter politically in the eyes? i don't think so. if there was a war, yes. but i think americans are glad things are going as well as they have gone in ukraine. we nev expected this war to go on as long as this when there was the first invasion. but americans care about what's happening at the kitchen table. where is inflation? does the job market keep strong? these are issues people worry about. laura: david, before i let you go, i want to ask you about one other big, for a-reaching action that's going to happen at the nato summit.

nato approving their first defense plan since the cold war. what is the significance of this and practically, what does it mean? david: you know, it means that they are, after experimenting, as susan suggested, with all kinds of other missions during those 30 years of kind of, you know, false hope that russia was going to get back in the western economy, they are now coming up with a true, integrated defense plan with requirements about how much must be they've got to go spend. not all of them have signed on to this. and they've also been approving, as of today in fact, more aid to ukraine, in the amounts of hundreds of millions of dollars. i think what's worth remembering here is vladimir putin has three ways to win this war, over the next year or so. one of them is if european resolve fails. the second one of them is, i suspect in putin's mind, is if

donald trump or someone with similar views ends up getting elected and pulling back the u.s. commitment. as susan suggested, it's really the republicans who have suggested, some of them have, that that's -- the u.s. should not be as deeply involved. and the third way he could win is if the ukrainians run out of ammunition. not just the munitions we were discussing but air defense and so forth. which the europeans are helping provide as well. and it's really only the third item, providing this for ukrainians, that's within europe and the president's control. so the focus, laser focus on making sure the ukrainians don't lose, perhaps helping them win is going to be really the drive of the summit. it's going to be a lot harder than the last time nato met. laura: david, thank you for joining us. i'll see you over in vilnius.

thank you for sharing your reporting with us. on thursday, president biden visited south carolina. an early democratic primary state. touting his economic policies and infrastructure investments. elsewhere, on the 2024 campaign trail, the feud between florida governor ron desantis and former president donald trump flared up again. this time after desantis' campaign attacked trump for his previous support of some lgbtq rights. >> i will do everything in my power to protect our lgbtq citizens. ♪ laura: well, there you have it. but first, before we get to that video, margaret, the g.o.p. field, as we saw is focused on lgbtq, saying no to gender identity being taught in schools, abortion restrictions.

but president biden this week, when he was in south carolina, was talking all about bidenomics. what's behind this strategy where he's focused entirelyn the economy? margaret: the economy is, it's the economy, stupid. he's running for re-election and they think how americans feel about the economy is going to matter. it hazmattered in every single election since forever. there's a couple of things at play here. one is, it's confounding to the biden team and a lot of economists that perceptions of the economy is really different than some of the indicators of the economy. the economy is better than people feel like it is. or i mean i guess the economy is as good as you feel like it is. but that's the reality. they need to address it. they're taking a page from the obama playbook where the affordable care act, when republicans tried to hang the name of obamacare around it and democrats got hit bad in the first mid terms. after that, health care started working for them, obama started embracing the name obamacare.

biden willem brace bidenomics. it's a bit of a hat tip toray beganomics, except a repudiation of it. it's thoroughly the biden team's belief that some of these longer term plays through the big spend, the bipartisan deals that were enacted, the green energy stuff, the efforts to reduce prescription drugs, that those are going to take a while to play out and that the economy is going to feel better for people by election time. by this time next year. than it does right now. so they are placing their bets on it. they decided, the same way they have with age, how he's making jokes about how old he is, they've decided he should own the economy. i don't know if it's going to work but that's what they're trying to do. laura: sabrina, as margaret said, people are perceiving the economy. so they're fast tracking the work on the i-95 bridge that

collapsed, and how quickly they were able to help in philadelphia. do you think those types of projects that the president is highlighting will ultimately help them break the perception? sabrina: that's the key challenge that the administration and the biden campaign is grappling with. although there have been gains in the economy under this president's watch and there's a lot for them to tout in terms of legislative accomplish. s with the infrastructure bill, the inflation reduction act, chips and science act, the problem they're encountering at least so far is a lot of the public says they're not yet feeling the impact of those bills. and so, you know, touting the impact that that legislation will have on people's day-to-day lives is a message that i think they belve will help them break through. it's very much though are you better off than you were four years ago argument that we've seen previous incumbents put at the center of their re-election campaigns. look, i think the other thing they're contending with is an enthusiasm gap. so margaret mentioned even the jokes that biden is making about

his age and so, the message is very much focused on the economy but i think as we get more into potentially a rematch between president biden and former present trump that's also going to be -- we're also going to go back and see what we saw in 2020, which is that there may not be a lot of enthusiasm behind the president right now but when faced with a choice of biden or trump, a lot of voters choose biden as the better alternative. that's something i think we'll see take shape in coming months. laura: moving to the g.o.p. side. that clip we play, susan, you said that stood out to you where trump said in it, former president trump says he'll do everything he c protect lgbtq citizens. why did that specific part of the video stand out to you? susan: he was making comments in the wake of the mass shooting at the pulse nightclub, in florida, where desantis is governor that left 49 people dead. and to then make it the kind of

theme of a video with those images that desantis chose to show, i thought, was striking. you might use a stronger word. it's -- it's one of the things that desantis has done, like signing the ban on abortion, that may help him in republican primary, although so far it's not helping him much. it will haunt him if he gets into the general election as the republican nominee because that attitude toward lgbtq rights is quite at odds with the american public. laura: margaret, even in a primary, the real questions about this strategy because it overlooks what we've long known about support for former president trump within the republican primary electorate and that it's not about policy, it's not about his record as a conservative. we saw senators rubio and cruz in 2016 try to hold up then-candidate trump's prior

positions on lgbtq right, on abortion, the fact that he used to donate to democrats. none of that matters because that's not why anyone supported trump in the first place or continues to support him. i think what governor desantis is going to learn, it's a dell cant balance when you're trying to figure out how to out-trump, trump. running to the right of trump really has not proven successful when, again, it's more about the cult of personality than it is about any real policy debate within the republican party. laura: you said about that video that it's not about trump. what's desantis' goal here? margaret: in fairness -- in fairness, it's not his video. but he has embraced it, right? if this -- if the pup of the video was just to show that donald trump has moved further to the right, has moved away from, or sorry has -- if the purpose of this was to show that donald trump is to the left that he has embraced gay rights, that's where the add would have

stop. the purpose of the add is to begin there -- of the ad is to begin there and then define ron desantis as the champion of anti-gay, teant tran positions. so it begins as being about donald trump. in the end it's not really about donald trump. it's more about positioning ron desantis. to susan's point tarks player in primary but it's a danger in the general. susan: trump has a huge advantage, he's been indicted twice. surprising to all of us that's turned out to be a fundraising bonanza, something that strengthened his position within the party. laura: we don't have much time left, i thin we'll have to leave it there. that video was definitely, as you said, margaret, very anti-lgbtq, anti-transgender and not necessarily something that will help ron desantis or former president trump on the campaign trail in the general election if they make it to the general.

we'll have to leave it there for now. thank you to my panel for joining us and sharing your reporting. thank you all for joining us as well. don't forget to watch pbs news weekend on saturday for a look at how black and brown communities are tbharyg brunt of automated speedg cameras in cities like chicago. i'm laura barren lopez. good night from washington. >> corporate funding for washington week is provided by -- >> for 25 years consumer cellular has been offering wireless plans to help people do more of what they like. our u.s.-based customer service team can help find the plan that fits you. to learn more visit consumercellular.tv. >> additional funding is provided by koo and patricia yuen through the yuen foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our community. sandra and carl delay-magnuson.

rose hirschel and andy shreeves. robert and susan rosenbaum. and by your contributions. thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.]

bonnie: a pelmenitsa is a round piece of kitchen equipment with 37 hexagons all in a honeycomb pattern, and you use it to make pelmeni. it's really efficient because before then, you'd have to shape them each my hand. my parents immigrated with their pelmenitsa, so they clearly thought it was important enough to, like, add to their cargo, which was limited. pelmeni originated in siberia. you would form them by hand, and you would throw them out the window into the snow, and they would freeze. as refrigeration and freezers became commonplace, they became this mass-produced frozen food. growing up, i never even really thought