♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. announcer: and now, "bbc news".

>> hello, i'm christ. this is the context. >> we urgently need to shape transformative technologies. because ai knows no rules. >> a complexity of these models is such that if we don't apply retrofit.nt in early >> as we become dependent on ai, for food, autonomous vehicles, we become very dependent. that means the tax on those systems can be very devastating. ♪ >> welcome to the program.

britain's chaired the first ever session at the security council on artificial intelligence. how do we mitigate the risks of taking full advantage of the benefits like innovation? or do we need general-purpose rules overseen by an international body? wel wil tto arms for the counteroffensi. bbc has spoken to military leaders who say it is going much slower than they would have hoped. that enormous floating barge has a rived to house migran who led illegally in the u.k. will a new bill the government pass deter those who put their lives in the hands of the people smugglers? no one doubts ai will change the way we live, but the rise of chatgpt and the other fast inventing systems has been accompanied by a sharp increase

in anxiety. the ability for ai system to teach themselves or grow in ways we don't fully understand yet, but has researchers predicting a large-sce catastrophe. that makes it the business of the united nations security council. today is the first time they began dialogue about the potential impact on global peace and security. the u.k., which holds the rotating presidency to the council said the challenge is to mitigate the risk ai presents through coordinated action while making sure we all benefit from the tremendous things it could deliver. speaking to our north american correspondent, who is watching that session. what does the foreign secretary say? >> this was a big deal for the u.k.. the u.k. really wants to show it can compete with the global giants in the most hyped area of .

that it can be a leader geogteraphicchally and intellectually when it comes to artificial intelligence. they are holding the presidency this month. they wasted no time putting on the security council meeting. i spoke to the foreign secretary before the meeting started. i started off by asking what the point of the meeting was, when he was hoping to achieve. >> ai will have an amplifying effect and accelerating effect on all things we currently use technology for. it can be used for good, medical research, climate change, analyzing big data sets. there are also potential maligned uses of ai. we are saying at the un security council we need to work internationally to understand the risks to look to mitigate the risks and put some structures and regulations i place.

it can only go internationally. >> give an example of what you think is maligned. >> the use of ai for weapons. just as ai can be used to develop drugs that could solve the disease challenges of the world, it could potentially be used to create bio weapons. that is the nd of thing we need to do. harness those positives and protect ourselves internationally. >> are there any cntries you are concerned in terms of developmental ai? >> one of the things we have to understand is it would not just be a state actor that could potentially use ai for negative or malign purposes. it is about thinking about how we develop it, what we release publicly, what is a more timely held. i don't pretend to have the answers, no one does. working together, we can analyze challenges and look carefully

what we do to protect ourselves internationally. >> countries like china are behind the u.s. ahead of the curve, does that concern you? >> people will be briefing in the security council today on a chinese technologist. it is in evebody's interest, every nation and every person's interest to get this right. better that we get it right together. that is why the un security council is a really good starting point. the u.k. is hosting an ai safety summit later on this year. we are playing our part, to harvest the benefits while protecting ourselves. >> that was the u.k. foreign secretary chring that meeting. it was one of those meetings where there was a lot of talking, statements, no concrete goals achieved. but the u.n. secretary-general

said at the meeting that his vision for the u.n. to create this sort of governing body to govern artificial intelligence. the way it does -- the way it has bodies in the use of nuclear weapons, aviation energy, the challenges of climate change, as well. >> talk about the chinese technologist that was in the room giving evidence, what does the chinese camp think about thisenerally? >> there was some tension. because china is leading second behind america in terms of advancement of artificial intelligence. a spokesperson for china said if there are going to be these u.n. bodies, they should reflect the views of developing countries and should not be the western nations that decide how

artificial intelligence is governed, that other countries should be able to establish regulations. there are tensions with china. the u.s. is looking to limit the flow of powerful artificial intelligence chips. the u.s. in the meeting, they did not directly address china's concerns. but they did make a dig at china accusing china of using technology to monitor minorities. >> thank you for that. joining me is anthony, the executive director of the future of life institute. he's one of the people that knows everything there is to know about this issue. let's talk about what was proposed. the u.n. would like to form a governing body. what does it look like in your opinion? what would it be tasked with

doing? >> there are a lot of models people propose for bodies like this. it is early days. the crucial thing is we have a body that can address the urgent and profound risks these advanced ai systems are starting to pose. these are broad and extreme, we are at a new stage as we were at the beginning of the new your area, where we had to change what we do internationally and have bodies that can have the ty of humanity as a whole first. >> i asked chatgpt what risks it presents to humanity. it came up with a list, a fairly exhausting list. there were cyber security vulnerabilities, the weaponization of ai, missing information and disinformation, data privacy and mass surveillance. bias and discrimination, which would be the unfair targeting of

specific populations. the unemployment it could create, leading to social unrest. and the ai that was talked about. that is a lot to get your head around. it is developing so quickly. you subscribe to the theory that we are already too late to put a governing body around all those issues? >> i don't think we're too late, but we have to act quickly. i was one of the initiators behind an effort to pause ai. we had a large open letter. to take a break from the breakneck and competitive speed of development to allow governance in the regulation and its creation of new institutions to catch up. we need to act fast and slow down the race to get these superpowerful ai systems. >> reflect on the view within the chinese camp that if there is a governing body, it needs to

reflect the wishes and demands of developing nations. you are sitting in san francisco, it is true in the social media space, it is america that is leading the way to the exclusion of other countries around the world sometimes. >> i think there are a lot of different arenas ai has a play in. it will be incorporated in many parts of our economy. they will have different ways they want to regulate and govern how ai plays out in their countries and societies. there are issues that transcend individual countries and governments, whichre the ones that threaten humanity as a whole. same way the u.s. and the soviet union came together during the cold war to make agreements about nuclear weapons, countries have to come together at this very high level and make agreements about the most powerful ai systems and how we keep them safe and under control. >> china is lagging behind at

the moment in the development of artificial intelligence. you can see a scenario where they might catch up and they might see this as the shortcut to not only an economic advantage, but also to china coming the most powerful nation on earth. if they were to go their own way and not subscribe to a rules-based system, does it undermine the rest of it? >> i think one of the reasons we need to get together and coordinate internationally is the alternative is the pernicious race that racing to these powerful systems and giving more capability and more decision-making to systems when we don't understand how they were, that we are somehow going to win. hitting into a race like that is something people are not going to win. the human race will not win. the ai will win that race. >> just on security and defense,

part of the discussion today, there are concerns ai can be used to set false targets or put satellites off targets. and that we might in the future have to think in very different ways to how we approach defense. is it incumbent on nato and western allies -- i think we have learned lessons during the war in ukraine, to find their own solutions. >> i think countries are going to have their own decisions how to incorporate ai in various parts of what they do. one of the things we have been concerned about is ai commanding and control systems. one of the things we want to be careful not to do is further delegate, and definitely not incorporate ai to new here command and control systems. it seems i get terrible idea. our organization put out a short

film illustrating the risks of delegating ai, including nuclear command-and-control. we can all agree it is a bad idea and we should keep the high-stakes decisions in human hands. i'm hoping some of the low hanging fruit like we are not going to incorporate a in nuclear weapons, we will keep human hands on certain things like the decision to take lives and make large decisions at command and control. low hanging fruit where wcan all agree. base levels of sanity in ai. that is where i would start. >> very interesting, nonproliferation of ai within nuclear discussion. thank you very much. around the world and here in the u.k.. you are watching bbc news. a great look at some of the other day news around the u.k. a mother who was jailed for illegally of painting abortion tablets to end her pregnancy will be released from prison

after a automobile reduced her sentence. carla foster was given a 28 month sentence after illegally procuring her own abortion when she was between 32 and 34 weeks pregnant. the judge said hers was a case for compassion, not punishment. a case against the former manchester united football orion gates do to face a retrial of domestic violence charges later this month. he was with -- in case with with strong at a hearing this morning. four teenagers charged with the murder of a 16-year-old boy who was stabbed on saturday. he died after being stabbed. the 19-year-old men and two 16-year-old boys had been detained overnight on sunday. you are live with bbc news. one of ukraine's most senior

military commanders has admitted the counteroffensive is not going as fast as he or the allies would like. he is pictured here alongside president zelinski. he's in charge of military operations in eastern ukraine. he told the bbc the results were practically impossible because of the well-epared russian defenses. the general hopes ukraine will be able to recapture the city that russian forces seized control of earlier this year. our defense correspondent reports from eastern ukraine. >> the bloodied battle is not over. the city is now held by the russians. we traveled with ukrainian forces. we are trying toake it back. their advance is still sl. and meeting resistance.

alex tells me the situation is tense. as you see, the enemy is firing at our position. they try to fire back the finish supplied mortar. and even western weapons can occasionally malfunction. >> that was a russian shell landing. their positions are about three kilometers away from here. last time i was near here two months ago, the ukrainians were losing ground and in danger of being surrounded. now it is the other way around. >> this is the bunker from where ukraine is coordinating the offensive. with the constant live feed from dozens of drones. the commander admits they are suffering losses, but not on the same scale as the russians. >> we have taken the initiative.

the enemy is bringing in troops and wants to escape the trap. but they are in trouble. it could be encircled. >> ukraine is using all he can to break the russian defenses. from the ground and from the air. but it is still outgunned and having to spread its limited resources on several front. but it will soon have a new weapon. u.s. supplied cluster bombs fired from these same american howitzers. >> this gun, will you use clustemunitions? >> you will? and will you have any concerns? >> no -- on the town, i have forbidden this.

because it is not human. >> he's the general in charge of all military operations. this is a command vehicle? >> the mastermind behind the defense of kyiv and successful defensive and khaki. he's lionized by his troops. and now his eyes are firmly set on retaking mahmoud. >> and you are going to take it back? >> yes of course. >> the offensive has been going on for more than a month. even president zelinski has said it is slower than ukraine had hoped. his that true? >> we would like to get very fast results. in reality, it is practically impossible. the entire area is well with defenses. >>cedve s anar so far the aancey

been modest. most of the front remains relatively static. these in the east have not budged since 2014. ukraine has still to commit all of its forces but is yet to break through russia's heavily mined main lines of defense. jonathan beale, bbc news. >> lets speak tthe ukrainian politician, minister strategic industries. he was formerly in charge of the trains in ukraine, which he kept running through the war. 85% were running even through the dog days in the war. it is good to talk to you again. the defense secretary was talking about the pentagon. he said the contact group, the countries donating weapons to

ukraine need to dig deep into their inventories. is there a shortfall in what the contact group has promised? >> i'm grateful for all of the technical aid we have received. i do understand we got more for us. and again, despite the fact i'm responsible for the production, i'm grateful for what we received. >> are 160,000 russian soldiers that are on the front lines. still huge numbers of russians there. have you been able to secure the right type of weapons that woul tilt the balance in your favor? >> we constantly work on that. but it is never enough. we are still way too far from where we need to be.

that is why we rely much on the supply. and i'm grateful for that. >> you are in charge of procurement and development of weapons in ukraine. the u.k. defense secretary said tragically, ukraine had become a battle lab for war technology. talk to us about that. help us understand where an advantage mighbe found, what sort of industries you are encouraging. >> those companies that saw production in ukraine will get the benefit of doing r&d in ukraine, and getting products tested with the best quality seal you can get in the world. and probably those products that

would be produced by the end of the war would be the best in class. it is a good incentive for defenses to come and put it in ukraine. >> you are talking about the small drones that spied on russian lines and also drop bombs? >> we got several hundred countries -- roads in ukraine, and more to come. and again, -- join the war. the second world war, plus drones. >> we talked to someone from the aspen institute who said one of the concerning aspects was the russians have been able to jam the targeting of those longer-range missile launchers. we talked in the program already tonight about ai and whether technology is changing the battlefield. are you having to react to that? >> sure, the war will produce

the best german and anti-german -- products in class and i'm sure experience was gained here. but that is the experience that will let us grow our defense industry and make the industry the lock on the revival of the economy whenhe war is over. >> was it that sort of technology helping ukraine blow up the bridge? >> well -- we will tell much more after the celebration. we have to work hard and make more moments like that when everyone wakes up and got good news about the bridge. >> in terms of the counteroffensive, do you think major progressan be made before the cold winter months come in?

at that point, things stay where they are. how important is that you get to a position where you take back a lot of land before those colder temperatures come? >> it is important to get every meter of our life. i'm working hard to make more. to help our army get the land back. >> is that important not only to the morello the army on the front line, but also the people where you are? >> it is important for all ukrainians in the east, in the south, in the west. several million ukrainians outside of the country. the representative of the world congress of ukrainians, they come from canada, also --

ukrainians and -- like ukrainians. the whole world is like indians. brave, helping us, and spending for freedom. >> a very quick one, you use to run the trains. it is a very different job to the one you have now. i guess that is how ukrainians have to be? they have to adapt and serve however they can to the betterment of the country. >> i don't like much about my odds -- i'm focused on the counter assignment more. what i have seen that we have -- we've also got iron people in the defense industry. this helps us do more and more and make the victory day celebration closer. >> thank you very much for coming on the program. good to see you. we will take a short break. we' narrator: funding for this presentation of is program

is provided by... narrator: financial services firm, raymond james. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglecteneeds. announcer: and now, "bbc news".