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♪ christian: good evening, i'm christian fraser and this is the context. we are watching live pictures from washington, where donald trump's plane has landed at ronald reagan national airport. the former president will be arrested on four criminal charges for attempts to subvert the 2020 election. here is donald trump, making his way from the plane at reagan national airport. the motorcade is in place. secret service are downtown awaiting the former president's arrival. it is a truly historic arraignment. we will be live tonight in washington throughout and bring you all the reaction with expert analysis this evening from both sides of the argument, as president trump is indicted for

the third time. so there, you see donald trump just getting into the motorcade. we are watching pictures from reagan national airport. it is not a very long journey from reagan national airport, about a 10 minute ride. he is due there at 4:00 p.m. eastern time, and security is extremely tight around the airport and on the journey downtown. security is very tight, in fact, there was a secret service sweep of the courthouse last night. strangely, these pictures we are watching are all very familiar now, because it looked something like this when he first appeared for the first indictment in manhattan. the fact that he is using these political appearances in court for political capital, you will see tonight perhaps a camera following him on the journeys,

it is all carefully documented and relayed on the campaign videos, part of the broader fundraising effort. none of these cases have yet come to court. let's go to our correspondent, outside of the courthouse. carl, you are standing outside the courthouse, very close to the western entrance of capitol hill, where all of these events unfolded january 6. carl: you would know very well exactly where we are. we are in front of the courthouse here, that has seen many other january 6 cases, and just steps away, perhaps a mile away as the capitol building itself. we can see it from where we are standing, and that's where the events played out on the dated january 6, the riots and insurrection, as it is called, and it is this case the former

president is now facing. many of the charges directly related to that date. he is facing four criminal charges and we are expecting him to arrive shortly. it looks like the motorcade is driving away now and they will be headed here. we expect the court appearance to begin around 4:00. the former president should arrive head of that -- ahead of that, and although this is historic, it is becoming routine. we have seen it not only in new york, but miami, in the state of florida, and will be seeing it again in washington, d.c., the nation's capital, steps away from the capitol building. he will be processed and read aloud the four charges. we expect that donald trump will plead not guilty, plus some other procedural methods that take place, it will last 30 minutes to an hour. then we expect the former president to make his way back

to the airport, get on that plane and go right back to new jersey. christian: he could have joined this virtually, carl, but he has made a political decision to attend ts in person. do we know if he is likely to make a statement today after the hearing? carl: yeah, it's interesting, wasn't it? he was given the option by the court to appear virtually, some sort of videoconference, but instead is on his way here. as we have seen in the past, the president does like to take advantage of these opportunities to make it part of his campaign. of course, he is the front runner right now for the 2024 republican nominatio, and this is very much intertwined with that campaigned. we saw in florida, a long drive from the courthouse there to a famous cuban café, a restaurant where he met up with his supporters. he even had some of them sing happy birthday to him -- it was

the day before his birthday. but we are not sure. we have not heard any confirmation today about whether he will make any kind of and are not -- speech and are not expecting anything before the court appearance, but it will be in line with what we have seen in the past. the former president making his legal issues very much lyrical as -- much political as well, his fundraising is off of these legal issues and he has started to do that for this indictment as well, so we are expecting some sort of statement. we could get that today, but we are not sure what or where that will be. christian: karl, thank you very much, as we will come back to you as events proceed this evening. you are looking at the live picture in the right-hand box of the motorcade making its way downtown from the reagan national airport. let's talk about the indictment, because it encompasses 2020

election and a desperate and futile attempt to cling to power. we indictment, the president enlisted six co-conspirators to spread lies and disinformation. this culminated in the appalling events we witnessed january 6. let me introduce you to our panel this evening. we have a republican strategist, a former federal prosecutor, and alec told her who made a documentary about donald trump in the weeks after the 2020 election and his film was subpoenaed by the january 6 committee. let me start with you -- the republicans have accused joe biden and merrick garland of "weaponizing the justice department." is that your view, because it

has taken three and a half years to get to this position and two years to appoint a special counsel. >> i reported on a profile for merrick garland earlier this year and i don't think they really want to do this, per se. when merrick garland entered office and joe biden entered office, they really wanted to move past trump. they were trying to avoid a confrontation in trump in terms of his legal culpability for a number of things, including january 6, and that proved to be unavoidable in large part due to the january 6 committee, the hearings last year and the public controversy those drew. the notion that the doj has been weaponized, these are talking points. i have to point out, this theme on the part of republicans, they started to develop it last august, the day that trump's home in mar-a-lago was searched

by the fbi, at a point in time when none of us except the justice department and trump aide any idea what was in there, what the case was about or what they were going to find. that's very telling, and the notion that there would be a weaponization committee in congress, that is something republicans were planning late last year. they have been laying the groundwork for this, this theme, this argument, if you will, has no relation to the actual facts. christian: there are four charges on the slate, obstruction of an official proceeding -- the counting of the votes, mark williams. you are a republican. do you believe the 2020 election was stolen? mark: i don't. but republicans out there believe that some nefarious things went on around the election.

i believe the president had some advisors and his ears that were incorrect in telling him that, and that gets us to where we are at right now. christian: so is it conceivable that he did not know he had lost? mark: look. i don't know, i cannot speak to what the president know or did not know at the time, but i knew the verbiage he was using. i think it will be incredibly hard to prove conspiracy. over the course -- christian: really? there was devon's role evidence that he had lost, 60 court cases, 11 senior figures in the administration, legal counsel telling him he had lost. is that he truly believed it was stolen, -- the only defense is that he truly believed it was stolen, regardless of all the evidence presented to him. mark: i don't know how you prove what he believed or did not believe. christian: but someone is

speculating he has to plead ignorance or stupidity, and many think this crime will prevent him from doing that. mark: you have seen several folks try to lay out the pillars of that defense, right? over the day, you will see that progress over time. the charges are going to be really, really hard to get to in a court of law -- they are just -- they are one of the hardest ones to ever prove. christian: alex holder, you were invited to be around the president and his family and the days after the election. you gave evidence in the january 6 committee on the subpoena. did you ever get the hint that he knew at that moment he had lost? alex: there are a few things to bear in mind. donald trump has set up the idea of the election being prodded -- fraudulent before it even took place. so this idea had already

started. it started even earlier than that, when he was against hillary clinton, when he would not accept the results of the election if she had won. trump believes that he is always going to win. he has an inability accept not. when you are around him, he convinces all those around him and himself in these ludicrous ideas. there is not a single shred of evidence to support the claims he made throughout the entire time he was, and still, making these ridiculous allegations. a few days before i met him in december, there was no evidence whatsoever to support his position. after january 6, mar-a-lago, he continued to maintain this position constantly.

i think it's because trump's character is one that all the way through his life, he's never been able to accept that he lost or that he was defeated. so it will be interesting to see him pleading that he is actually insane, which i doubt he will do. christian: but you told the committee that when you went into do the interviews, you couldn't imagine that he didn't know he'd lost. yet, when you came out of the interviews, you are 100 percent certain -- this is what you said at the time -- that he thought it had been stolen from him. alex: there is no doubt that donald trump himself believes in all sorts of conspiracies and unreasonable claims. to quote his own attorney general, he said to the january 6 committee that trump was detached from reality. donald trump is not a five-year-old. he is in his mid-70's and was

the commander in chief at the time, and is refusing to accept what everyone around him is saying, except a few crackpots. so trump is -- he is an unusual person in the sense that he can claim that the skies green when it is not. he will keep digging himself into the hole again and again and again, refusing ever to capitulate. it's an unreasonable position. obviously, the election was not stolen. every single court case he failed at and then went on to put pressure on election officials, trying to find 11,000 or so votes in georgia. when i was with him in the white house that very day, that was the day the georgia case was dismissed in the georgia courts, about him saying the machines, every time that someone voted for trump, the machine was

"hacked" and sending it to president biden. for me, it was terrifying to see someone who had convinced himself, despite all the evidence around him and the advisors around him, that this election was fraudulent. so i felt that he is a sitting president of the united states, the power that he still has and what he is doing is incredibly dangerous. it ended up with the tragedy of january 6. christian: if you are just joining us, we are watching donald trump arrived downtown in washington, d.c. ahead of his arraignment at the district court. these are live pictures, the motorcade, that is, followed by the press pool, following it from the reagan national airport. not far from the district court now, only a 10 minute journey from the airport to the courthouse.

the president said in the course of the weeks after the election that he merely wanted a pause for states to properly verify the votes. here isow he responded -- have a listen. >> the president specifically asked me and his gaggle of crackpot lawyers specifically asked me to reject votes. it would have resulted in the issue of being turns over to the house of representatives and chaos would have ensued. christian: we now know that he kept contemporaneous notes about what happened in the days before january 6. how do you think those notes will be important to jack smith and how do you think the

jury will be guided to interpret those notes? >> notes are always useful in cases. in this particular case, these issues, i wish he had spoken up more frequently or earlier, and is a little too reticent to say what is on his mind. forhe most part, he has a lot of credibility on this subject and is generally regarded as a straightforward person and honest about his views on that day. the notes will help corroborate his recollection and can be introduced in certain instances, but the main thing for jurors will be hearing from mike pence himself. christian: let's bring in our correspondent, outside the courthouse. it looks as though the motorcade has arrived at its destination or near the house. -- courthouse. can you see the motorcade and can you describe how many people

are at the courthouse today? carl: we have not been able to catch side of the motorcade yet. we believe it is fairly close. we are a few hundred feet from the capitol building and you can see it from where we are outside the art house. to set the scene for you a little bit, there are thousands of people waiting the president's arrival here. most of them would be media members, to my left and right there is a line of television camera crews almost encircling the courthouse. you can see behind me, the main entrance to the courthouse, we don't believe donald trump will be using that one. he will be likely going through the side entrance, as we have seen through previous arraignments in florida, for security reasons. you can see the heightened security as you arrive outside of the district federal court house.

some of the security is not as visible. secret service is always in tow and this is a president or former president. there has been coordination between federal law enforcement as well. there was actually a false alarm yesterday on capitol hill, a false alarm of the -- in active shooting situation. it just shows you how on high alert this area really is, especially when it gets to something like an arraignment. there are some supporters of the former president here, but the numbers are not notable. maybe a dozen, up to a hundred. we are all waiting for trump to be here, but you know better

than i, he will be heading in through a back entrance. he has arrived and will be heading in through the courthouse through a side entrance. his appearance is scheduled for 4:00. it's a short flight, about an hour, and a short drive to the courthouse as well. christian: confirmation that he has arrived and gone through the side entrance. a fairly straightforward process, which he has been through before. he will be his rights, processed, and when he gets into court, will he be asked to make a plea? carl: he will make a plea. we are expecting it to be not guilty, as we have expected in the last two cases where he has been arraigned. he will be processed in the way that many other defendants would be -- fingerprints will be taken, first and -- personal

information will be gathered, and there are no cameras allowed in the courtroom. we have reporters nearby, they ve been able to see the exact setting where the arraignment will take place. a modest courtroom, that is how it is being described. there are a couple of tables where the president will be sitting. a few rows of wooden benches, a television monitor and that's about it. few journalists are allowed in, and there are members of the media in the courthouse itself, so they will be able to feed us information as this is taking place. again, n necessarily a surprise, but it is beginning to feel a bit routine. we have seen it in florida, new york, and could see another indictment coming down in the state of georgia in the coming days or weeks. right now, the focus is on donald trump and what will be taking place very shortly.

christian: the indictment in georgia could be imminent. today, the focus is on washington, d.c. this is going to test everyone over the next 12 months. i suggest that the justice department is as much on trial here as donald trump, right? mark: in the eyes of half the country and republican voters, right? republican voters consider this the weaponization of the doj, so i think they are going to want to see a preponderance of evidence on these conspiracy charges. look -- we have heard this kind of rhetoric about elections before. we herded in 2016 from the democrats, when they said that russia stole the election and republicans continue to beat the drum and say, why are there any charges for people who were

saying that after 2016? i think you will see a lot of back-and-forth between the political parties, and it's an amazing kind of testament to trump's political willpower, that he is still the front runner of the republican primary, and regardless of read, maybe four indictments, his poll numbers just don't change. christian: yeah, we were talking to and cash -- ankash about mike pence. it is entirely probable that jack smith has more than what we see in this indictment. the transcript of mike pence's grand jury testimony was released and leaked to the new york times, 18 consecutive pages were blacked out. there is some jeopardy for donald trump in what he doesn't know.

mark: for sure, in all of these cases. we have heard what vice president pence has said and what he may continue to say, right? vice president pence knows where all the bodies are buried and this will lead up to january 6, so it will be interesting to see what comes forward. but these conspiracy charges are really hard to get to stake. at the end of the day, the mar-a-lago documents case may be the one that is the final kind of nail in the coffin for donald trump. christian: alec told her you gave over 11 hours dallas alex holder -- alex holder, you gave over 11 hours of footage. >> we provided footage to the january 6 committee, the department of justice and also to georgia, the georgia investigation as well.

we gave them what they asked for and that was it. christian: the big question i suppose, and the question for everybody, really, is if this case gets triedefore the 2024 election. naturally, donald trump will play for time. he is running for the highest office in the land and him would say he need to be able to concentrate on his campaign. but others would say it is imperative for this to be tried before people have to vote. where do you stand on that? >> not me. i think there is a more of a chan of donald trump being in prison then getting the nomination, and that's only if his case goes to trialefore july of next year or so. with respect to the republican convention. also, the other thing that is interesting, the republican party, the leaders of the party are still defending him, because they are petrified that if they don't, trump and his base will

turn on whoever they pick as a candidate. on the one hand, they are defending trump because they are scared of him running as a third-party candidate or the base turning on their chosen candidate. on the other hand, they don't have a person that president biden can't beat. it's an ironic situation. christian: thank you very much for being with us on the first half-hour of our special coverage this evening. you are looking at live pictures of the district courthouse in washington, d.c. we are seeing the motorcade arrived, just a few minutes ago, donald trump now in the courthouse where he will be formally arraigned, fingerprinted, and read his rights before his appearance before the judge in this case, tanya chutkan. it is likely to be a brief appearance, but is an immensely historic day narrator: funding for this presentation of this program

is provided by... narrator: financial services firm, raymond james. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by jy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. announcer: and now, "bbc news".