good evening. i'm amna nawaz. geoff bennett is away. on the "newshour" tonight, president biden issues an executive order limiting american investments in the chinese tech sector in the latest escalation of trade tensions. new details emerge about former president trump's plan to employ fake electors in one of many attempts to overturn his 2020 loss and, black lung disease rises sharply among miners amid aggressive new coal extraction techniques and pushback against regulation by the industry. this is not our grandfather's black lung anymore. this is a whole different aggressive form of black lung. this is severe, severe lung disease.

>> major funding for the pbs newshour been provided by -- ♪ >> moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. the walton family foundation, working for solutions to protect water during climate change so people and nature can thrive together. supported by the macarthur

foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant, and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org . and with the ongoing support of these institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. amna: welcome to the newshour. fbi agents have shot and killed a utah man accused of making threats against president biden. it happened early today in provo, utah, hours before the president was due to arrive in the state. the fbi says agents were trying to serve a search warrant at the home of craig robertson. he had posted that he was dusting off his sniper rifle, ahead of the biden visit. hawaii is beset tonight by hellish scenes of wildfires,

driven by a passing hurricane. so far, six people have been killed. thousands of acres have burned across maui, including parts of lahaina town, dating to the 1700's. overnight, flames rimmed the horizon as high winds grounded firefighting helicopters. by day, amateur video showed plumes of smoke and homes and businesses destroyed in lahaina. some people ran into the sea to escape the flames. others were flown out for treatment of burns. days of downpours in northern europe caused a partial dam-burst in norway today. flooding had already put parts of the countryside under water and prompted evacuations of more than 1000 people. elsewhere in norway, overflowing rivers have swept away mobile homes and small buildings, and landslides have ravaged homes. >> it was like a massive machine, like a bulldozer, that was sweeping everything away with it. when i looked out my window, i

saw a pile of huge, muddy tree trunks that were laying right next to my house. there was a rescue team at my door right away. they had to find a big rock and break the glass of the door to get me out. amna: meanwhile, in southern europe, some 1000 firefighters are battling fires in portugal fueled by triple-digit temperatures. it's the region's third severe heat wave this summer. leaders of eight south american countries urged industrialized nations today to do more to preserve the amazon rainforest , the world's largest. they've been meeting in brazil at a regional climate summit. today, brazil's president called for wealthy states to protect the amazon before it reaches a point of no return. >> it's not brazil that needs money. it's not colombia that needs money. it's not venezuela. it's the nature that industrial development over 200 years has polluted that needs them to pay their share now for us to recompose part of what was damaged. it is nature that needs money and financing. amna: some environmental groups

say they've been disappointed with the summit, and that the leaders have offered little in the way of concrete action. in russia, authorities say a factory explosion killed one person and wounded 56 today, amid conflicting reports of a ukrainian drone attack. it happened at an industrial site north of moscow that makes optical and mechanical gear for the russian military. security camera footage showed the blast erupting at what officials said was a warehouse storing fireworks. rescue teams searched through the day for survivors. back in this country, there's word the january sixth special counsel fought for months to view former president trump's account records from "twitter" -- now known as "x". court documents out today show a federal judge ultimately fined the company $350,000 for failing to comply with a search warrant on time. voters in ohio have set the stage for a showdown on abortion rights this fall. on tuesday, they rejected a proposal making it harder to amend the state constitution.

it would have required 60 percent approval instead of the current simple majority. turnout was much higher than usual as the two sides pointed toward november and a ballot question that would enshrine abortion rights in the constitution. >> ohioans will have a say when november comes and we will vote yes. >> if it passes in november, there's going to be another abortion amendment go on after that to repeal that. amna: six states have had votes involving abortion since the u.s. supreme court struck down roe versus wade last year. supporters of abortion rights have won all six. an american nurse and her young daughter are free tonight in haiti, after kidnappers released them. they'd been held nearly two weeks. alix dorsainvil was abducted, along with her child, as she worked at her husband's christian aid clinic. it's located in a gang-controlled section of port-au-prince. u.s. officials welcomed their

return, but gave no further details. the cost of this year's severe weather across the u.s. is setting records. a leading reinsurance company, swiss re, reports thunderstorms alone racked up a record $34 billion in insured losses in the year's first six months. on wall street, stocks dipped as investors wait for the july inflation report tomorrow. the dow jones industrial average lost 191 points to close at 35,123. the nasdaq fell 162 points, 1 percent. the s&p 500 dropped 31 points. and robbie robertson, lead guitarist and songwriter for the legendary group "the band", has died in los angeles. he and "the band's" four other members went from backing up bob dylan to their own stardom through the '60's and into the '70's. in the process, they reshaped popular music. here they are in 1969, performing one of robertson's classic compositions, "up on cripple creek".

♪ >> ♪ ♪ going up on cripple creek said i don't have to speak but she defends me a drunkard's dream ♪ amna: robbie robertson was 80 years old. still to come on the "newshour", asian americans weigh in on the supreme court decision to end affirmative action in college admissions the relationship between presidential candidates -- college admissions. the relationship between presidential candidates and political action committees raises questions about campaign finance. police issue arrest warrants after a massive brawl on a montgomery alabama boat dock . plus, much more. >> this is the pbs newshour from weta videos in washington and in

the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. amna: the biden administration released a long-awaited executive order today aimed at curbing china's military development. these new rules mark a first step by the u.s. government to clamp down on overseas investments by american firms. laura barron lopez has the story. laura: the new executive actions limit investments in china by private equity and venture capital firms in three high-tech sectors, quantum computing, artificial intelligence, and semiconductors and microelectronics. it would also require firms to disclose investments in other chinese industries not restricted under the president's order. here to discuss is chris johnson. he had a 20-year career in the u.s. intelligence community, where he focused on china. now he runs his own consulting firm, china strategies group. thank you so much for joining us. what is the significance of this executive order limiting american developments in china?

and how will it be implement to? -- implemented? chris: it has finally managed to get out the door. this is something the administration has been working on for nearly 2.5 years now. if we count the time of basically the entire trump administration where they were also thinking about such an executive order and working on it then, we are talking about a sum total of 6.5 years in the making so it is quite significant in that regard. it is important as well because it is the next step in the process we have seen under the biden administration of trying to control chinese ability to develop some of these core technologies. more specifically, things that might have military application, semiconductors in particular. that is where the executive order is going to be the strictest in terms of prohibitions of investments and also these new and emerging technologies of artificial intelligence and quantum computing, as you said. laura: the administration made clear that these are meant to stop china from using u.s.

technology to modernize their military and intelligence capabilities. how much american money is actually going to develop those technologies in china and will these new restrictions actually impact china's ability to advance the technology? chris: on the scale of total investment that the chinese are making in these core technological areas, the actual u.s. dollar flow into those investments is relatively small. the chinese government is pouring a ton of money into all three of these areas, largely through its industrial policies which are of great concern to the u.s. so the actual amount of money by comparison that the u.s. is putting in is small but it's not really the money necessarily that i think the administration and other folks who are looking at this closely especially on the hill has been focused on. it's really the knowledge, the special capabilities, the sort of things that are u.s. venture capital or other firm can bring to the table in terms of

expertise that might help the chinese make advances in the technology itself. in other words, to facilitate making the investment that the u.s. investor is making profitable, they are willing to share their ecosystem, if you will, of technological and other expertise and that is really what the concern is. while the actual dollar amount is small, that has been the concern. in terms of the ability to impact chinese developments, it will not use their ability to do so. one of the things that has been most challenging for them is they want to have access to foreign direct investment coming into these technologies and especially those expertise categories that i mentioned a moment ago coming their direction. they will continue to pursue these technologies because they are critical in their minds for not just their military advancement but also their economic development in the 21st century because obviously, these are the three core technologies that are looking like they will define the knowledge-based economy of this century. amna: senior officials told us today -- laura: senior

administration officials told us it took a thoughtful process to get to this executive order. could you explain some of that process that they underwent to actually reach this point? chris: absolutely. the administration deserves a lot of credit for this. there was extensive consultation with affected parties. venture capital firms, other investing firms. they took into account a lot of their feedback in the process and obviously, as the executive order tells us, there will be a comment period as well which will be quite lengthy so there will be another opportunity for the administration to engage with affected parties, most specifically industry in the united states, because that is the institution. that will be the most affected, that sector. so they had taken a very judicious and elaborative approach. some critics argue it has been too judicious and deliberative in the sense that the executive order only requires a notice and go system for areas that are not prohibited under the executive order, so that is basically an

entity which -- wishing to make an investment has to report to the treasury department about what they are doing but it is not a proper screening mechanism especially with congressional legislation wherein they would have to screen that investment and decide whether it is allowed or prohibited. instead, it is just a notification process and some critics have said that's too loose. amna: how do you expect china to -- laura: how do you expect china to view these new restrictions and is there wide expectation that they will retaliate? chris: there definitely is. we should expect them to retaliate in part because they have told senior u.s. officials that they will. when secretary yellen was visiting china, that message was definitely conveyed. it has been conveyed to secretary of state blinken and other u.s. officials. this is one of many of the sort of redlines. president xi jinping said that the united states and the west

was acting actively to sort of suppress, contain, and encircle china, and since then, we have seen them take talia tori actions. one instance is the banning of the u.s. semiconductor firm macron chips to many u.s. customers. we have seen them react with restrictions on certain rare earth metals that are critical in the semiconductor space. they have shifted gears. we saw a step change to actual retaliation that does matter and i would expect to see something similar like that in this instance. laura: chris johnson, thank you so much for your time. chris: my pleasure. thank you. ♪ amna: new information is coming to light in a central charge against former president trump . that he schemed to prop up fake sets of electors to overturn the

2020 election. our lisa desjardins has more on the latest developments. lisa: the accusation, like much in the trump case, is unique. federal prosecutors point to these seven states which trump lost, but where they allege he plotted to subvert the results with false slates of electors, poised to cast the states electoral votes. the indictment alleges that trump's goal was to cast doubt and disrupt the final vote certification on january 6. joining me now is amy gardner, who covers voting and national politics for the washington post . amy, we are talking about a fundamental part of our democracy, the last step in voting for our president. this indictment charges that trump and six unnamed co-conspirators were working to overturn that. these are the faces of some people that are believed to be those co-conspirators including one boris epstein, who the new york times indicated. the others including rudy giuliani. what did you learn from the indictment about them and about

this plot? amy: one of the most interesting and really quite blockbuster elements of this indictment is that jack smith and his team are alleging that the pretext for the electors to meet, which was simply to preserve their legal remedies in the pending court cases in each of those seven states was a lie, and that the real reason that the trump campaign was endeavoring to get all these electors to meet and cast their ballots for trump and send these false electors slates to washington was, as you put it in the introduction, to disrupt the proceedings on january 6. that is something that trump folks denied but jack smith presents quite a bit of evidence to suggest the possibility that that is indeed what was going on. lisa: we also learned today from the new york times something about a new memo we have not seen in public for. this was written in december of 2020 from trump's ally.

pushing these false slates of electors in those states even after most of the states had already certified their electoral process. what is significant about this memo? amy: it shows that you indeed, as early as december 6, when he apparently authored that memo, which the new york times divulged last night, they were plotting to use these electors slates on january 6 not merely to preserve their legal recourse as they stated at the time. it is also worth noting that even earlier than that on december 3, another one of those unnamed co-conspirators who he identified as john eastman, was testifying before the georgia legislature about very similar possibilities about using these slates of electors on january 6. there is a good deal of evidence that jack smith includes in his indictment to show that the intent all along was in fact to subvert the final counting of

the electoral college road on january 6. lisa: this is unique. it's also about an archaic piece of american law. the electoral college process. the trump team said there is nothing illegal with having these slates of electors ready to go. you are saying this indictment says otherwise. what does the prosecutor have to prove to show that this was illegal? amy: the way that conspiracy charges work is that all you have to prove is that at least two people planned to commit a crime and the crime -- the individuals charged don't have to be the people directly executing the crime and the crime doesn't even have to have taken place. lisa: they have to know it was a crime. amy: thank you. that was my next point, which is that they do have to show that trump new. and there's lots of evidence that people were telling the president at the time, there isn't widespread fraud, and also, you cannot do this thing

with electors you are trying to do. in one of the changes with some of his senior campaign staff at the time that they were trying to arrange these elector meetings, one of them called it a donkey show. they were so certain that it was, you know, just legally not sustainable. but at the same time, he was also hearing from close advisers including giuliani, including eastman, including chesbro, that it was possible. that was the really big challenge that prosecutors face in this case. lisa: how about the states? these were state slates of electors -- what is going on in the states regarding this generally? amy: it's really interesting that jack smith is not going to the electors themselves who in many instances appear to have been duped into believing it really was about preserving those legal remedies in those cases that were still pending. in the states, some of the prosecutors who were looking into this, they are looking at the electors. in michigan, the attorney general has already charged all of the michigan electors with

crimes because in part, michigan did not even have any pending cases so there was no pretext to disrupt january 6. we know the fulton county prosecutor in the atlanta, georgia area is planning to make a decision any day now and we expect some of the electors in georgia to actually be charged in that case as well. lisa: amy gardner, we appreciate it. amy: thank you so much. amna: the first republican presidential debate is just two weeks away. and at least eight candidates have met the rnc criteria, which includes collecting 40,000 donors across the country. some of those candidates have used creative fundraising tactics to reach that threshold. one campaign offered $20 gift cards to people who donated at least $1. another established a

sweepstakes giving away soccer tickets. are these methods above board? that's just one campaign finance question being raised in this election. to help break it down, i'm joined by adav noti of the non-partisan campaign legal center. he previously worked as a lawyer at the federal election commission. welcome, and. gift card -- and thanks for being here. is all of this aboveboard? is this legal? adav: in theory, having small donors contribute in numbers is not just legal, it is a good thing for the system. it helps balance out the disproportionate influence that wealthy donors usually have in campaigns. but what is happening with some of these debate qualification schemes that are going on is that the campaigns are really taking big money, seed money from major donors, and parceling it out to collect these token small contributions, which are

not enough to actually run a campaign. these are not small dollar funding campaigns. they are big money funded campaigns. it is another example of big money sort of dominating even the system that is intended to broaden, you know, contributions to smaller donors. amna: is that allowed, to take those donations and parcel them out that way? adav: unfortunately, it is allowed and incentives are laid out so that it can be very helpful to candidates who are then very grateful to the donors who provided them. amna: there's a number of questions around former president trump's finances in particular. i wanted to ask you about his post on the 20 fundraising efforts. they are being looked at by the special counsel. the question is about whether or not he was raising some of those enormous funds he raised after

he left the 2020 election on the backs of false claims of voter fraud. what does the law say about this? adav: it does look like under the legal definition of fraud, that applies not just in campaigns but to all sort of solicitations for money, that the solicitations that from campaign were making were very deceptive and intended to mislead donors into giving to what they thought were election protection efforts but in reality, the money was not being spent on anything of the kind. most of it was just being banked. there is a very serious claim potentially, you know, by the department of justice, that that fundraising was fraudulent. amna: this question about the relationship and coordination between mr. trump's pac and his super pac. one organization requesting a so-called refund of $60 million from the other. how do you make sense of that? adav: super pac's are supposed to be independent so when you have a super pac that is exchanging money back and forth

with another entity that is controlled by a candidate, it sure looks like coordination, financial coordination between those entities. coordination between a super pac and a candidate is illegal so it looks like there is a legal coordination going on between those entities. amna: if something is found to be illegal, what is the enforceability here? adav: the problem is that the federal agency that is supposed to be enforcing the law, the federal election commission, essentially, they do not enforce campaign finance law and has not for quite some time so there are very few consequences for even very serious misconduct and so, it leads to a situation where each election cycle, we have more and more activity that appears to be illegal under long-standing federal law but is conducted anyway because there do not appear to be consequences. amna: there is another recent

report related to the campaign of tim scott and the use of llcs, paying money to these organizations and we don't know who they are. how legal -- how unusual is that? adav: this is another situation where if the federal election commission were enforcing the law, none of this would be happening. so all voters have a legal right to know every dollar that a presidential campaign is taking in and every dollar that it spends, but the trend we have been seeing, including this cycle from the scott campaign and others, going back to 2020 and the trump campaign, is campaigns using shell companies to hide their spending. so the campaign runs all its money through a shell company and then just report the payments to the shell company but a shell company is the one that actually makes the disbursements that people doing the campaigns work so it hides from the public where that money is actually going. amna: one last thing i need to ask you about, just the influence of big donors. we have seen that growing over time. he saw it just yesterday in the

special election in ohio. how do you see that now? adav: every cycle, the problem of money dominating elections gets worse and that is a combination of the government not enforcing the laws that are on the books, the laws not being updated for the modern era, and in the absence of real enforcement, we are going to continue getting more and more domination of elections by wealthy special interests. amna: all right. thanks for helping us make sense of it all. adav: thank you. ♪ amna: coal mining has long been known as an arduous and dangerous job. in addition to working in very tough conditions, often miles below the earth's surface, coal miners are also susceptible to the respiratory disease known as black lung. it currently afflicts one in five veteran miners, and the

most severe form of the disease is at the highest it's been in decades. as william brangham reports, after years of inaction, new federal rules are aiming to protect those workers. william: these men all worked for years and now they are struggling to extend their lives a few more years. they all have what is called complicated black lung disease, the most severe, incurable version. it brutally scars the lungs, making it hard to breathe. exercises like this aim to strengthen their remaining lung capacity. >> a lot of people take breathing for granted. and you wanted to do things, and your mind said you could, but then your body says you can't. william: billy hall was diagnosed with a disease at 48 after starting work in the minds just out of high school.

last february, he was lucky. he got a double lung transplant. how did you reconcile doing a job you love when you knew it was also starting to harm your health? >> got to feed your family. that's one way of putting it, you know. william: in the last decade, hundreds of coal miner's suffering from black lung have come to the pulmonary rehab clinic in southwest virginia. many of these men are no longer alive. scientists have long known that breathing coldest can cause -- coal dust can cause black lung. and even more dangerous culprit has been identified, silica dust, which comes out of the rocks that get demolished during mining, that dust is twenty times more toxic to the lungs. this stretch of southwestern virginia is where federal investigators found the largest cluster of complicated black lung cases ever officially recorded.

it's affecting younger miners, and sickening them much more quickly. men like denver hoskins. >> my great grandfather, my grandfather, my dad, and me also, we all was coal miners. and i mean, once you become one, it's hard to get away from. william: at 17, this kentucky-native had a tryout with the cincinnati reds and planned to go to college. but when his dad got sick with black lung, he stayed home and like everyone else in his family , went to work in the mines. at 43, hoskins was diagnosed with the worst kind of black lung at the stone mountain black lung clinic across the border in virginia. he now can't work, and sometimes requires oxygen to breathe. can you put that into words, what that's like to live with what you're living with in your

chest? >> whenever you're having trouble, i guess the best illustration is to cap your hand over your mouth, or put a bag over your head. seal it off. see if you can breathe. i can get air out but i can't get enough air in. william: the reason young miners like hoskins are getting silica into their lungs is because modern coal mining uses high powered machinery to cut through increasing amounts of rock, to get at the limited amount of coal that's left. that cutting releases silica dust into the air, and they breathe it into their lungs. >> when you tell the younger miners they have complicated black lung, you don't get much of a reaction at all. they're kind of just stunned. william: every day, fourth generation coal miner turned radiologist brandon crum reads lung x-rays with the tell-tale cloudy masses that signal black lung disease. since 2015, his clinic in the town of coal run, kentucky, has

diagnosed nearly 700 miners with complicated black lung. >> if they never go to work again, they continue to get worse, because once that dust is in the lungs, it's there for the rest of their life. and it is a chronic inflammatory process in their lungs with some of them that leads to this significant progression in shortness of breath. william: still, crum says, the initial cause of this severe disease is preventable. >> we don't have to have this disease. we don't have to have men in their thirties and forties going through transplants. we don't have to have wives that are widowed. this is not our grandfather's black lung anymore. this is a whole different aggressive form of black lung. this is severe, severe lung disease. william: some u.s. industries where silica exposure occurs, like construction and fracking, are regulated by osha, the occupational safety and health administration. that agency recognizes the threat, and mandates exposure limits and safety precautions. but coal mining is covered by a

different agency, and has been an exception. that's now changing. in june, the federal mine safety and health association, or msha, proposed a rule to cut the exposure limit for silica dust in half for a work shift. >> this is my great grandfather's hardhat that he wore when he was a coal miner. i've seen more miners packing around oxygen tanks than i would ever like to ever like to see. if these things are put in place, all this is entirely preventable. so it goes back to you know, we've known for decades that silica causes workers to be sick. william: decades ago, the cdc recommended reducing silica dust in coal mines by half. but no action was taken. in the 1990's, msha warned the industry about silica exposure, but no rules were adopted. sociation -- the industry'sning biggest lobbying group --

successfully blocked broader regulatory measures. in 2014, the obama administration passed a rule limiting overall coal dust, but stopped short of regulating silica. >> regulations on coal mining have always had pushback from the industry. the industry's interested in running as much coal as possible, and regulations slow that down. william: rebecca shelton is the director of policy at the appalachian citizens law center. she says, when silica levels are high, the best way to protect workers is to increase the spraying of water to tamp down the dust, and boosting ventilation in the mines. but the industry has argued that giving miners additional respirator masks would be enough. in a statement to the newshour, the national mining association said the “new proposed rule specifically indicates that the use of respiratory protection equipment cannot be used as a method of compliance. we believe this is a mistake.” >> we have represented many

miners that have been punished for wanting to enforce mine safety regulations. the enforcement is going to be really challenging if you don't have more sampling. william: shelton says effective enforcement will be difficult if congress doesn't increase funding and resources for msha. she says the agency has seen a 50 percent reduction in enforcement staff over the last decade. >> the ultimate goal here, is to prevent miners from getting sick. i can't predict, you know, a year or two years from now, you know, what resources congress are going to is going to make available to us. it's going to be a priority and, you know, we're going to do the best we can with what we have. and, you know, that's outside of my control. william: in the proposed rule, mine operators will self-report silica dust exposure. it's a detail that worries safety advocates, but williamson says those records would be double-checked by msha. >> it's in a mine operators best interest to do sampling in the

way that's there too because they want to know what are the health hazards that are out there. right, like what is potentially in that environment that may make one of their employees sick. william: these new rules have come too late to protect denver hoskins, and countless others. men like him worked for decades to mine the coal that helped power and build this country, but they've suffered terribly for it. on average, a diagnosis like his cuts 12 years off a person's life. >> i hope and pray that the good man above will give me another 20, 30 years. see my children grow. become a grandad. get to see them grow. if it's his will. but if it ain't, it ain't. he's blessed me so far. he truly has. william: a final rule on silica dust exposure is expected next year, but would be subject to reversal under a different administration.

for the pbs newshour, i'm william brangham in central appalachia. amna: since the supreme court struck down affirmative action in college admissions, questions remain over how this will affect students moving forward and who will be most impacted. the court sided with plaintiffs who argued race-conscious admissions discriminate against asian americans. but how do asian american students feel about the loss of race-based college admissions? let's hear first from some who support the decision, and then those that oppose it. >> i was overjoyed with the decision. i believe that the supreme court got this right and that affirmative action needed to go. obviously, this doesn't guarantee us entry into any college we want. but what this does guarantee me is that i know that everything that happens is not because of something i can't control.

and if i don't get in, it's because i could have just worked harder. it's because i should have studied more, not because of something that i can't change, which is in my race. >> they take away opportunities from certain ethnic groups in order to benefit others, which is completely racist. and asian-americans such as me and my peers we have worked extremely hard and we fear that our college admissions will be denied because of our race. i was considering like opting out of my race in the college admissions process. but i think now that affirmative action is gone, it's just more fair. and if i don't get into the college i want to get into, it's not something that i can't control. and it's more of like, i could have worked harder. >> i come from a pretty privileged family, relatively affluent. and i understand that i perhaps, you know, do have some advantages over many others. however, i think that

disadvantage is not from the color of my skin, right. i don't want to -- i don't want to be judged on that. >> i definitely believe that affirmative action is beneficial to asian americans. the asian-american community is a very diverse community. we have, like hmong people of -- hmong people, vietnamese people, cambodian people, chinese people, we have all sorts of different cultures. and so affirmative action is one of those things that ensures that our culture is represented and that we all have a voice . >> race is something that historically has been very important in shaping the lives of people currently. and that's not something that i think can be ignored, especially on a level when people are applying to colleges. >> i actually wrote a paper in high school against affirmative action because a lot of the

conversation in my household and growing up was always on the idea of like meritocracy, which a lot of people against affirmative action are talking about now and this idea of survival. again, if you work so hard, you should be able to deserve it. but as i'm now going through the reality of this country and navigating all these systems and spaces, i'm starting to realize that meritocracy is only an illusion and that there are just so many, again, factors that make meritocracy incredibly hard. >> until we progress in a society where i think, i don't know, maybe america can truly be race blind or we can truly acknowledge each other as as equals or be more holistic in our interpretations and our understanding of others and our identities, i think that affirmative action still has a place. amna: to dig more deeply into those views, i'm joined by janelle wong. she's a political scientist and the director of asian american

studies at the university of maryland. and susana liu-hedberg, the executive director of the education nonprofit, the 1990 institute. welcome by the supreme court -- how do you think it will be affected by the supreme court's decision? janelle: -- get better access to education. for more than 10 years, we have found consistent support for affirmative action among asian americans interviewed in language and young people just like those you heard from on the whole are even more supportive. so i recognize the value of hearing from diverse voices but on the hall, i think is an american students are going to

really miss the diversity that happens when you have a program in place that systematically accounts for lack of access for groups to the college campus. amna: as one of the students mentioned, it comprises a very broad range of racial and ethnic backgrounds. they do broadly support affirmative action but does that support change based on which group you are talking about? >> it does change and as we delve deeper and disaggregate data, the myth of the asian american monolith and model minority myth correlate in this way and we see this playing out with, for example, the june pew research survey which showed that asian americans have mixed views on affirmative action and with the interviews that you saw. you know, so first of all, just uplifting pew research survey

that was done a few years ago that showcased 30 plus different ethnicities that are under one asian-american monolith, that we all, 30 plus ethnicities, are the same. and when we disaggregate this data, we find that not every asian-american has the same lived experience and the study even delves deeper into each of the cities and where they fall within party and education including access to higher education. >> there's a couple of really good ideas i want to pull apart. i want to put to use some of those numbers. when you take a look at those numbers on asian-american views of affirmative action, overall, 53% of those surveyed say it is a good thing. they support affirmative action. 76% said race should not be a factor in admissions. 53% said that considering race and ethnicity in admissions would make the process less

fair. those seem to be contradictory ideas so what should we understand about that? janelle: with the pew question on race and ethnic city, it provides little context. it asks if it should be a major, minor, or no factor. that is not how admissions work in the real world. race has been considered holistically. in race conscious admissions, it is never the only factor considered nor is it the primary factor but many think it is and this may affect how they respond to that question. some, with this question, may not even know they are being asked about affirmative action. i think what is really critical here is that other studies have shown that a majority of asian americans do support affirmative action but susanna is right. there is one group that does not support affirmative action consistently, and that is my own group, chinese-americans. amna: what should we understand about why that view is held among chinese-americans? janelle: susanna mentioned the

model minority myth. this is the idea that asian americans have a special value for education and are competent -- uber competent. the internalization and endorsement of this model minority myth is associated with antiblack attitudes among asian americans and associated with skepticism about affirmative action. let me be really clear. asian americans face racial discrimination and they are victims of white supremacy, but that is really what gave the supreme court case power. edward bluhm recruited asian-american plaintiffs because they are victims of white supremacy and they shielded his organization from charges of racism. so the fact is that black, latino, and native american students, the fact that they are showing up in much smaller proportions compared to white and asian students tells us something is wrong with the system and that some groups face

much higher barriers to accessing education than others. that is not fair and it does not lead to opportunity for all. amna: clearly, the views held among the very diverse population that falls under the category of asian americans, it's very complicated and worth unpacking, disaggregating, but when it comes to impact, what do you believe? the impact of the supreme court's decision? susana: diversity remains incredibly important in any learning environment and as we can see from the interviews and also the surveys that we have read, this issue was and remains a complex one. the cases and the ruling tied two things together. on the one hand, we acknowledge there needs to be some mechanism in place to support students who have been historically marginalized and underrepresented to ensure equity and access to higher education but on the other hand, if processes in admissions are

based on one certain criteria like race, than that does become discriminatory. now affirmative action did not need to be struck down but it did need to be fixed. the law, like many other of our laws, is not perfect. but it was and could have been reworked or implemented differently to reflect today's needs and address the and equities and frustration that some of the api community felt. and also in the case of the students that you had interviewed here. the nation really did a disservice to so many minority students by taking a sledgehammer basically a two decades of progress. we should have worked together to find a solution that allowed all historically underrepresented minority students to thrive which includes asian-american students and also now is a time where we are looking to do and see what is next. now is the time to seize on that opportunity, to move forward, and really work together, not

just within the api community but also all affected communities. amna: thank you both for joining us in bringing your experience to this very complicated issue. thank you. ♪ the city of montgomery, alabama, is on edge after a large, chaotic brawl broke out over the weekend that seemed to divide along racial lines. as john yang reports, the altercation has the attention of americans nationwide. >> the incident occurred saturday evening at montgomery's riverfront park along the alabama river. city riverboat was coming back from a -- police asked the men to move the pontoon boat.

eventually, a cocaptain took a small boat to the dock and tried to move it himself. the the o's of what happened next have gone viral on social media. the group from the pontoon confronts the cocaptain. one of the men throws a punch and the brawl begins. several men are seen beating and kicking the co-captain. more and more bystanders joined in and police had to be called to break it up. so far, three men from the pontoon have been charged with assault. police say they're still investigating. montgomery mayor steven reed, is the first black person to hold that office, elected in 2019. >> like many people, i was surprised and shocked to see something like that happen for someone who was just doing his job. i was disappointed, to say the least. it was disturbing. >> are you satisfied with how the police have handled it and the charges so far? >> yes. i think they have handled it in

a professional manner, leaving no stone unturned mentality. they approached it with a very deliberate sense of urgency and i think the fact that we have one person in custody and a couple of others that will be in custody shortly is proof positive of the work that has been done by the men and women of our police department. >> were you surprised how quickly this spread on social media, that it went viral so quickly? >> yes, definitely was surprised by that. i think i probably have a better understanding of it now than i did sunday evening when i first kind of started getting some texts about it. i am amazed at how many people have refuted and what conversations have come out of it. but it is one of those things, you never can tell in this day and age what people are going to be interested in and what they are not. >> this now becomes sort of what

people think of of montgomery right now. how do you feel about that? especially this city that has violent racial history. >> i would be cautious about, you know, casting aspersions on the city. the perpetrators who have been identified and warrants have been signed are not from montgomery, number one. it's important for people to understand that we are the second most visited tourist city in the state so we wanted that to continue. it's important to the nation that they learn the history of the civil rights movement. when we consider the community itself, they responded pretty positively. the known issues around this, the city has come together around many of those -- not just the cocaptain but even some of those on the crew, to say we are glad somebody, you know, stopped

something wrong from happening until the police could get there, and that is not to say that, you know, people are condoning violence. it's just that there is a sense here that we have seen a lot of progress in the city. we are certainly not perfect. we have more work to do, but this is not indicative of who we are. >> on the videos, it looks like the fight breaks down along racial lines and cnn is now reporting that a witness says that a racial slurs was used against the captain before the fight began. do you think this is race related? >> i saw what you saw and what millions of other people saw. i think for us, we are looking at it from the standpoint of, you know, a legal case. does it meet the standard for, you know, i hate crime? --a hate crime? so far, no. we are still gathering information and if something changes to point us in that direction, that is where we will go. >> do you expect more charges as

the investigation continues? >> i think that is possible. for us, it would be premature to say that there would or would not be any additional charges as witnesses come forward, as more information comes out. there certainly could be. we are going to continue to follow the evidence and let that take us to whatever decisions that are made by not only the police department but also our district attorney and anyone in higher-level prosecution. >> you talked about the progress that has been made in montgomery. what is the state of racial relations in your >> city right now? >>progress is measured by the fact that i am here. i was elected in 2019 with two thirds of the vote. multicultural, multiracial, multi generational coalition we put together. that said, there are still strains. there's still a level of tension that probably is here much like it is in a lot of places where

there's old versus new. there's a certain mindset that has been prevailing and there is a new one. you can add to that the national discourse around -- for this black history being taught in schools or whether it is our legislature not adhering to a supreme court order to draw a second congressional seat as majority black. there are certainly challenges here. that is not to say that we think back 10 or 20 years ago that we haven't come along way. a long way to go. i think that is many cities throughout this nation. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. amna: remember, there is a lot more online including an in-depth explainer on the south american summit focused on deforestation in the amazon. that is at pbs.org/newshour, and

that is the newshour for tonight. on behalf of the entire newshour team, thank you for joining us. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions and friends of the newshour, including jim and nancy, and kathy and paul anderson. >> for 25 years, consumer cellular school has been to provide wireless service that helps people communicate and connect. we offer a variety of plans and our service team can find one that fits you. to learn more, visit the website. >> the ford foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions.

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