geoff: good evening. i'm geoff bennett. amna: and i'm amna nawaz. on the “newshour” tonight, the effects of this year's extreme weather persist as severe storms lash southeastern europe and maui marks one month since the start of its disastrous wildfires. geoff: we speak with the u.s. ambassador to the united nations during her trip to chad as concerns grow over another potential genocide in the darfur region of sudan.

>> they ran because they were afraid. they ran because they saw their neighbors, their friends, their family members killed in front of their eyes. amna: and tunisia's president tightens his grip on power by jailing rivals while the economy falters and citizens flee in increasing numbers. >> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by. >> consumer cellular, this is sam. how may i help you? this is pocket dial. well, somebody's pocket, thought i'd let you know with consumer cellular, you get nationwide coverage with no contract. that's kind of our thing. have a nice day. >> the kendeda fund, committed to advancing restorative justice and meaningful work through investments in transformative leaders and ideas.

more at kendedafund.org. carnegie corporation of new york, supporting innovations in education, democrac engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security, at carnegie.org. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

vanessa: i'm vanessa ruiz in for stephanie sy with “newshour west.” here are the latest headlines. the death toll has reached 18 tonight in severe storms raging across southeastern europe. central greece has been especially hard hit, with some areas getting a year's worth of rain in 12 hours. entire villages were cut off today, with water six feet deep in places. and rescuers brought more stranded people to safety, many of them stunned by the disaster. >> we've never experienced anything like this before in all these years. even old people we spoke with told us they've never seen this before. there's so much water. vanessa: elsewhere, a storm that hit southern brazil this week caused widespread destruction and claimed at least 39 lives. authorities say flooding rain affected more than 80 cities. u.s. forecasters are warning that hurricane lee could become the first category five storm of the atlantic season.

it grew today to category four, with winds of 130 miles an hour. the projected track would skirt the northeast caribbean this weekend. and after that, the storm's path is uncertain, but it could stall east of the bahamas. former trump white house advisor peter navarro was convicted today of contempt of congress in the house january 6 investigation. a federal jury in washington found that he defied a subpoena for documents and a deposition. each misdemeanor carries a potential one-year sentence. navarro had pushed false claims of mass voter fraud in the 2020 election. in ukraine, funerals began for 16 people killed wednesday in a russian missile strike. the attack struck an outdoor market in the eastern city of kostiantynivka and left it in ruins. today, local people left makeshift memorials. to the west, russian missiles hit the grain port of izmail

along the danube river today, the fourth strike there in five days. meanwhile, moscow said its forces shot down ukrainian drones inside southern russia. mexico may be on track to elect a woman as president, for the first time. former mexico city mayor claudia sheinbaum was chosen last night as the ruling party's candidate. the main opposition party has also nominated a woman. sheinbaum celebrated with supporters after beating out five other contenders, and she urged voters to back her in next june's election. >> today, democracy won. today, the people of mexico decided, and i am the national coordinator to defend the transformation. this work is teamwork. for this reason, i say we all need each other. vanessa: political analysts in mexico say a third party could nominate a man to appeal to those who won't accept a woman president. microsoft reports china may be using fake social media accounts to influence american voters.

the company says its researchers have found an apparent network controlled by china. it allegedly uses artificial intelligence to post politically charged content. china's embassy in washington dismissed the claims as, quote, full of prejudice and malicious speculation. japan fired a moon-bound craft into space today, joining a new wave of attempted lunar landings. a rocket blasted off carrying a robot moon lander, plus an x-ray telescope, designed to orbit earth and study the origins of the universe. the lunar craft will take a long, fuel-saving route, arriving in february. japan would be the fifth nation to land on the moon, along with the u.s., the soviet union, china, and india. back in this country, a federal appeals court is allowing texas to keep floating barriers in the middle of the rio grande river, for now. in july, the state installed the

buoys as a way to block migrants from crossing into the united states. the barriers can stay in place while a court case proceeds. still to come on the “newshour”" republican presidential candidate and former arkansas governor asa hutchinson discusses the race for the white house. and, the school year gets off to a rough start with the heat forcing some schools to cancel classes. and much more. >> this is the "pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. amna: tomorrow marks one month since the wildfires in maui raged out of control, claiming too many victims and destroying an historic part of the island. now residents and businesses are trying to recover and eventually rebuild, amid so much grief and loss. the flames have died down, but

maui is still mourning all that was lost. tiare: we haven't even had the first funeral yet, and they're already talking about rebuilding lahaina? amna: it was one month ago that wildfires broke out on maui. they blazed through west maui, scorching lahaina, once the capital of the hawaiian kingdom. hundreds of structures were destroyed. kehau: within minutes, our whole neighborhood was covered in smoke, and we were just fighting to get out of here. amna: some could only escape by fleeing into the water. the death toll now stands at 115, the deadliest american wildfire in more than a century. the official missing person list is at 385. thousands of people are staying in temporary shelters across the island. sen. hirono: these fires took so much from so many, but the spirit of aloha, of love, kindness, and care for one another continues. amna: but, as residents recover, potential tourists aren't sure what to do with upcoming trips

booked to maui. the hawaiian tourism authority published a map with areas still affected by the fires. they discourage all nonessential travel to west maui, but encourage tourists to visit other parts of maui or the rest of the hawaiian islands. some local officials want to ensure that embracing tourism doesn't come at the expense of residents. tamara: we can put 100% of our efforts into the recovery, or we can put 100% of our efforts into hosting tourists. but if we try to do both, i don't think we will do a good job at either. amna: with this essential piece of the economy missing, it's not clear if the island can afford to recover without visitors. gov. green: i am advancing now the discussion about when west maui will open again beyond lahaina, because we want to protect the economy for everyone who's working. amna: local business owners are trying to spread the word that maui is open. wendy: you're being told that maui is closed. we are not closed. we are very much open for business. and it feels like a second

victimization. amna: but it's difficult now for longterm residents to stay put on the island, let alone for visitors to arrive. many homeowners have reported being targeted with offers to buy their real estate, not uncommon after a disaster lowers land value. gov. green: we want to keep this land in the hands of local people, and we want to give them at least a chance to decide whether they'd like to build back. amna: deborah loeffler lost her five-generation family home in the fire. deborah: this is home. we're too old to start anywhere. and, like i said, this is home. i have got family roots here. we are not leaving. if i have to go pitch a tent on the ashes, that's what i'm going to have to do. amna: one of the thousands of residents picking up the pieces of what they have lost is former "top chef" contestant lee anne wong. her restaurant, papa'aina, in lahaina's historic 122-year-old pioneer inn, burned in the early days of the fire. wong sprung into action, joining up with local chefs and volunteers to feed up to 10,000

maui residents every day. she joins us now to tell us about where things stand for her and her community. lee anne wong, welcome to the "newshour," and thank you for joining us. lee anne: hi. aloha, amna. amna: let's just start with, one month on, how you are doing. what has the last month been like for you? lee anne: it has been a whirlwind, for sure. there were a lot of moving pieces. and it was amazing to see how the community came together to rally and make sure that the residents who had been affected by the fire, first responders, basically, everybody had the support and hot meals and food and water and generators and clothing, you name it. and it was a lot. i mean, it's -- i learned a lot in four weeks. so, but it's -- we're entering the next phase of our recovery and it's going to be a very long road. amna: what about your team and your staff? they were all impacted, i understand. how are they doing today?

lee anne: they're good. i have been in touch with some of them. i'm actually trying to figure out my go -- the gofundme that i started for the crew now and figuring out how to distribute that to everybody and tax liability and all that stuff, all that good stuff. so that's my next trip today, is to the bank to figure out how i can start distributing funds to my staff. amna: i know you're focused on recovery. i want to ask you about that. but i need to ask about the moment that you knew that your restaurant, which was in this historic part of maui, in this historic building, when you knew it was gone, what was that like? lee anne: i was actually on oahu at the time, and i had been up all night just playing phone tag with some of my crew. it was like maybe 3:00 in the morning when one of my cooks sent me a video of somebody from the water who seemingly was in the water. and they were just looking towards the shore. and we could see the lighthouse standing, but there was no building behind it.

if you were in the water looking at the lighthouse, normally, the pioneer inn would have been there. amna: you have described some of those early days after as crisis mode, right? you joined with university of hawaii and world central kitchen to feed thousands of people. it seems the focus is now to recovery. so what does that mean to you? what are the most pressing needs right now? lee anne: right now, you still have a lot of nonprofits on the ground working with the community to make sure that food and water and hot meals are being distributed to those who need it most. but world central kitchen is leaving on the 15th. so, any disaster that we see in modern day, the nonprofit only sticks around for so long. and so now the community is left to figure out what's next. and so i am currently working with county and state and several nonprofits on the ground. i put together like a 30-question survey last night to send out to restaurants and small businesses about how the maui fires impacted them.

no one is collecting all of this data, which actually is important and critical and needs to be shared with both the state and the county in order for us to get federal funding. because, right now, all of maui county is pretty much on the edge of the cliff, when we're talking about an economic crash, because of the drop in tourism. amna: what does that mean to be on the edge of the cliff? lee anne: there are businesses that are closing temporarily. some have let go of employees. unfortunately, in an economy that is 70% dependent on tourism, it's really, really hard. we were having a housing crisis and a labor crisis before the fires as a result of three shutdowns during covid and businesses were having a hard time recovering. so now maui residents are dealing with another, essentially, state-mandated shutdown, except the federal government hasn't declared all of maui county a disaster area, only the affected areas. and so all the small businesses in maui who dedicated their resources, their time, their energy, their money towards the relief effort are now kind of

twisting in the wind right now. and they don't have many, if any, financial options for aid, which would -- should come in the form of, like, a disaster loan or grant. it's kind of crazy, because it's like, again, this is by no fault of these business, and they have to bear the brunt of the economic fallout. but they say maui's open. it's like, by the time people come back, we can't say what condition the economy will be here. amna: can i ask you, there have been other extreme weather events since the wildfires, right? and there will be more ahead. are you worried, the further away we get from the fires, that people will forget about what happened in maui? lee anne: no, i don't think so, because climate change is real. i mean, we are already three weeks ago, last week's news cycle. so it's, again, a long road to recovery. there's a community here that we are so integral to -- maui is thought of as paradise and a place where people can enjoy their -- come enjoy a beautiful vacation.

and that's all true. but the people that make that happen live here and they're part of our community, and they're suffering right now. and so you might still have your home and your job, but now you're not -- you're worried if you still have your job, because there's no business, and you might be let go. so that's -- there's just multiple layers of things that are happening here. and maui is going to need the public's help for a long time to come. and i think that can happen through positive messaging and, again, just the spirit of aloha. amna: we have seen that aloha spirit in action. we are all thinking of you and everyone in maui. lee anne wong, thank you so much for joining us. lee anne: thank you so much, amna. aloha. ♪ geoff: this week, the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. is visiting the border of one of the world's worst crises.

more than five million sudanese have been displaced by a power struggle between the military and an offshoot paramilitary group. more than 200,000 people from sudan's darfur region have fled into chad, where u.n. ambassador linda thomas-greenfield announced new sanctions and additional humanitarian assistance. nick schifrin spoke to her for a look at u.s. policy five months after violence in sudan broke. nick: they crossed the border with their entire lives on the back of horse-drawn carts and walked dozens of miles carrying the next generation to a safer future. sudanese refugees arrived by the thousands into chad and were greeted yesterday by u.s. ambassador to the u.n. linda thomas-greenfield. she pledged another $163 million in aid to families fleeing war. five months of infighting between sudan's armed forces and rebel rapid support forces, or

rsf, has engulfed sudan's cities and reignited ethnic conflict in darfur, a region the size of spain. 20 years ago in darfur, government-backed janjaweed militias committed what the u.s. labeled genocide. those militias birthed the rsf, which, today, in the same place is alleged to have launched the same crimes. nathaniel: we are talking hundreds of thousands of people who have really, at this point, no protection force between them and rsf, which has clearly shown, like the janjaweed from which they are descended, that their intent is to liquidate non-arab people in darfur. nick: and to discuss the humanitarian crisis and u.s. policy towards sudan, we turn to u.s. ambassador to the u.n. linda thomas-greenfield. ambassador, thanks very much. welcome back to the "newshour." you just heard one description of what these refugees that you have been speaking to are running from. what did they tell you?

linda: they tell me that they ran because they were afraid. they ran because they saw their neighbors, their friends, their family members killed in front of their eyes. they were raped, as some of the women shared with us, and they were afraid for their future. and they only -- their only hope was to seek refuge here in chad. nick: as we said, much of this violence in darfur is being committed by the rsf, which is a descendant of the janjaweed militias who committed genocide 20 years ago in darfur. if the state department today has evidence that this is the same group committing similar violence in the same place, let me ask you directly, is today's violence also a genocide? linda: today's violence is very reminiscent of what we witnessed in 2003 and 2004.

we are gathering data and gathering information now. as you know, we have already issued sanctions against one individual and visa restrictions on another one. and we will continue to follow this situation very intensely and closely and develop our decision based on the facts on the ground. nick: you heard from nathaniel raymond, who is in the sudan observatory group, which is funded by the state department, who is trying to find some of the facts on the ground, earlier say that the rsf's intent is to liquidate non-arab people in darfur, like the janjaweed did 20 years ago. do you believe that's the case? linda: i believe that we're seeing evidence of that. nick: and is that defined as ethnic cleansing? linda: no, we -- the people we're seeing crossing the border are definitely people of the

same ethnic descent. they're telling us the same stories of the attacks that are being made on their families, on their villages, on their livelihoods. and as we gather that data, we will make firm decisions about what to do moving forward. but, right now, we're holding every person that we are aware of accountable for what they are doing, and we will continue to do that. nick: yesterday, you imposed sanctions on the deputy leader of the rsf, who is also the brother of the commander of the rsf, general hemeti. but some members of congress want to see more. why are there not sanctions general hemeti himself and, indeed, the head of the sudan armed forces, general burhan? linda: what you saw us announce yesterday was just the start part. and we're continuing to gather data and put together the facts, so that we can move forward on other announcements.

nick: on that effort to hold these parties accountable, is there a plan to escalate sanctions? linda: certainly, there's a plan to continue to impose sanctions. nick: 20 years ago, when the violence was raging in darfur and the u.s. declared genocide, president bush repeatedly raised what the janjaweed militias were doing. why is president biden not talking about darfur? linda: this is what i -- i represent the face -- one of the faces of the administration. i'm here because president biden wanted me to be here. and this is something that the administration is engaging on, and i'm part of that engagement. nick: back then, as you know, the u.s. pushed resolutions through the security council that demanded the janjaweed disarm. the security council authorized troops, of course, to go into darfur again. why is that not happening again? why aren't there more efforts by the security council to repeat those actions? linda: well, you may know that i

held as -- during my presidency of the security council during the month of august the first open meeting on sudan. and one of the things i heard during that meeting was that the press, the world was not paying enough attention. and i made the decision that i would bring members of the press with me here, so that we can witness firsthand what was happening on this border. so, our efforts in august were the start, and we certainly will continue to focus attention on this issue, and particularly in the security council. i'm looking forward to returning to new york, where i can share with other members of the council what i witnessed here and push for more council action. nick: some regional experts told me today that they thought secretary-general guterres was not aggressive enough on the

topic of sudan. and one senior u.s. official told me that the u.n. had been -- quote -- "dysfunctional" on sudan. do you agree? linda: look, i have been here on the ground watching u.n. agencies responding, responding in ways that are indescribable to save lives. i have walked with unhcr employees and other u.n. agency employees who are devoting all of their efforts and their time to saving the lives of the people in sudan. so i will commend that effort here in chad. and i know that efforts are being made elsewhere to support the sudanese who are the victims of this brutal war. nick: and, finally, let's talk about the regional actors. the united arab emirates, in particular, has been a supporter of general hemeti and the rsf, the rapid support forces. has the u.s. confirmed that the uae has sent weapons to the rsf in the last few months?

linda: we have called for all countries who might be engaged in this war to cease those efforts. we need to call for peace. we need to encourage these -- the warring parties to put down their weapons. we're supporting efforts to find a peaceful solution, to negotiate a peaceful settlement to this war, because, until this war ends, people in sudan will continue to suffer. and we have made very, very clear any countries that might be engaged in supporting the efforts of the warring parties should cease those efforts immediately. nick: forgive me for asking again. has the uae sent weapons to the rsf? linda: i can't confirm who is sending weapons to the rsf. i can say that we know weapons are going in, and we want to urge those countries who are providing those weapons to cease those efforts.

nick: and you are calling for those countries to cease those efforts. on the other side, of course, we have egypt, saudi arabia that have historically supported the sudan armed forces. what is the u.s. doing, beyond calling for those countries not to fuel the conflict, to stop fueling the conflict? linda: well, you know that we have been very, very actively engaged in the peace process and trying to bring the parties to a negotiated settlement. those efforts are continuing. we're supporting the efforts of the arab league, of the african union, and all of the regional parties who might be able to influence these warring parties. and, today, i met with the president, the traditional president of chad, and also urged that he continue to actively engage to stop this war. nick: ambassador linda thomas-greenfield, thank you very much. linda: thank you. ♪

geoff: democracy in tunisia is under pressure. the north african country was long considered a trailblazer for democracy in the arab world. now, as special correspondent malcolm brabant reports, the country's president has launched an authoritarian crackdown that has jailed political rivals, wrecked the economy, and caused people to flee. malcolm: this is the alluring official self-portrait of a north african nation attempting to bolster post-pandemic tourism and stave off financial collapse. but for many tunisians, the happy images contained in this promotional video are a mirage. this is the side of tunisia that tourists won't see, investigating judge bechir akremi, filmed by his wife, after what supporters claim was his arbitrary arrest in february and subsequent torture. aziz: the whole psychological pressure, it definitely weighs

on a person. so i would say my father is slowly dying in prison. it's a horrible situation to be in. malcolm: aziz akremi hankers after happier times in tunisia with his father before he went into exile to germany, and his father ended up in this jail in the capital, tunis, along with scores of other political prisoners. bechir: it's a horrible treatment. it's the most disgusting treatment you can imagine. i'm tired, aziz. i can't talk anymore, please. aziz: imagine serving your country for 34 years, literally giving your life and blood to this country, dismantling massive terrorist entities, literally saving it from terrorism itself. malcolm: in 2015, islamic extremists killed 22 people at a museum. and then a lone jihadi murdered 38 tourists at a beach resort in sousse before being shot dead. judge akremi spearheaded the investigation, and his work led

to the arrests of and ultimately life sentences for seven terrorists. aziz: tunisia, when my father took those terrorism cases in 2015 was in dire straits. it was a country where it was about to get besieged by terrorism. and he effectively dismantled all of that. malcolm: but that hasn't swayed tunisia's president kais saied, seen here in a trademark mute facebook video with music that's become his theme tune. saied is ignoring international calls to release judge akremi and dozens of other political prisoners. saied staged a coup in july 2021 by dismissing the government and suspending parliament in a clear breach of his election pledge two years earlier. pres. saied: our project is based on freedom. the time of guardianship of people is over. i have full respect for those who voted for me, but, also, i do respect those who voted freely.

malcolm: outside the mother of parliaments, yusra ghannouchi is appealing for international help to restore democracy to tunisia. her father, rached ghannouchi, the former speaker of the tunisian assembly, has the highest profile of those arrested by the regime. yusra: we believe that democratic nations must prove that they will support democracy, not only in ukraine, but anywhere democracy is being threatened, as it is in tunisia. malcolm: twelve years ago, tunisia was a source of hope across the region. the arab spring of pro-democracy uprisings began in the southern tunisian town of sidi bouzid after a fruit and vegetable seller, mohamed bouazizi, set himself on fire. the popular revolt ousted tunisia's dictator, ben ali. but, today, many tunisians fear that their current leader is just as bad. kaouther: tunisia is failing as an economy, as a state. malcolm: kaouther ferjani is another exile living in london.

her father, said, an opposition lawmaker, was also arrted in february's sweep and is currently held in one of the country's most overcrowded jails. kaouther: rather than fixing the problem, the president and those around him are looking for any scapegoat possible. so they have come for all their political opposition, the media, judges, and now they're coming for the average citizen. malcolm: the exiles are urging washington to sanction the tunisian leader's inner circle. yusra: there must be accountability for kais saied, his interior minister, his justice minister, and anyone implicated in the constant grave human rights violations being committed in tunisia. there must be sanctions on them. malcolm: is that a reasonable course of action? should that be something that the united states should consider to try to apply pressure to him? gordon: it's something that should certainly be considered. malcolm: gordon gray, on the right, was ambassador to tunisia during the arab spring, and was

present in 2012 as the late senator john mccain came to witness democracy flowering. gordon: saied doesn't have any assets in the united states that i'm aware of. he doesn't travel to the united states. i'm just not sure how effective they would be in affecting his calculus. malcolm: saied's faltering economy recently received an injection of $100 million from the european union in return for stopping migrants leaving from tunisia. and as the outgoing dutch prime minister mark rutte promised, more deals could be forthcoming. pm rutte: let me emphasize that the central aim of this partnership is to help ensure economic growth, jobs, and also future prospects for tunisia. the e.u. at this moment is already tunisia's biggest foreign investor and trading partner. but there's a lot of potential to do even more. malcolm: this european handout is intended to help reduce the number of migrants landing in italy, not far from tunisia. kaouther: that money isn't going

to go to immigration. that money is going to go and strengthen kais saied's power grab. it's going to strengthen the impression that's happening in tunisia. malcolm: natasha tsangarides, an advocate with a nonprofit called freedom from torture, is also critical of the european deal. natasha: europe talks a lot about the principles of democracy, fairness, rule of law, human rights. they need to put those principles right at the center of what they do, because now, with these sorts of externalization deals, all of those principles are under threat. so, what are the chances that, having overthrown one dictator, tunisians will rise up again? gordon: similar conditions exist, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it were to come. the economy is going to continue to deteriorate, because he doesn't have a plan. at a certain point, the tunisian people are going to say that they have had enough. their patience is going to run

out. malcolm: anti-government demonstrations are infrequent and relatively small. the opposition needs to overcome increasing despair. yusra: people are not ready to give up the freedoms that they had won after the revolution. if the free world is silent on these daily violations and does not prove its belief and commitment to the values of freedom and democracy, then the future does not look bright for tunisia. malcolm: so, should potential tourists boycott tunisia out of solidarity, a question i put to judge's son aziz akremi. he believes people should continue to visit to help ordinary tunisians earn a living. but he wants foreigners to lobby their politicians. aziz: this is a new, very stupid and very brutal dictatorship that could possibly -- that could easily be uprooted. so, with enough western embargo and with solidarity, they can definitely go a long way with this dictator and even revive

the democracy. malcolm: theoretically, tunisians have a chance to remove their leader at the next presidential election slated for 2024. but, given saied's campaign of repression, there's little confidence that the vote will be free and fair. for the "pbs newshour," i'm malcolm brabant. amna: with recent polls indicating former president donald trump's grip on gop voters holding firm, several republicans are hoping to chip away at that support and win their party's 2024 presidential nomination. former arkansas governor asa hutchinson is one of them, and he joins me now from des moines. governor, welcome back to the "newshour." thanks for joining us. asa: great to be with you. thank you. amna: so you're in iowa. it's your 15th visit this yr, i understand. current polling there has you at less percent -- and there's

about 18 weeks to go before the iowa caucuses. how do you move up from that 1% between now and then? asa: well, we will move up. and whenever you look at my campaign trail, i have been in new hampshire earlier in the week, i'm in iowa now. and iowa is one of those states that, one, they're going to be late-deciding. they're sort of lodged with president trump now, but they're looking for, where's the future of the republican party? and they're going to make that decision after they meet you face to face, they determine their level of trust with you, and your vision of america's future. so, that's what i'm engaged in. and so it takes two things to change the poll numbers, one, a realization that following donald trump will not have a good ending. and then, secondly, you have got to make your case that you're the best alternative to lead this country. and i will be doing that. amna: there are a number of the candidates making that same case, as you know. i have to ask you about "the

national review" last week that ran an editorial calling for you to end your campaign. it was titled, "drop out, asa." they cite your support numbers. they say other candidates have similar policy positions as you. and they put it this way -- quote -- "we believe that his heart is in the right place. and the way to demonstrate it in these circumstances is to gracefully bow out." what do you say to that, governor? asa: well, i say that's one voice that's in the minority. and the case ought to be made by "the national review" that donald trump should drop out of the race. he's the one that's facing four indictments, and he's the one that people are following and is not leading to good conclusions. he's the one that will lead us to disaster in 2024. i'd refer you to the boston globe that did a very favorable editorial talking about me being one of the winners of the last debate and urging folks in new hampshire to make sure that i get the 3% necessary to be on the next debate stage.

so, i think the voice is clear out there that what i'm saying is important to the future of the party and for providing an alternative to the disastrous future that donald trump will bring our party. amna: speaking of that last debate stage, you were the only one to raise your hand when the candidates were asked if you believe that human behavior is causing climate change, which, as you know, is a huge issue for younger voters. so you have been saying america needs to move towards what you call reasonable constraints on carbon emissions. so, give us an example of that. what would a president hutchinson consider to be a reasonable constraint? asa: well, first of all, that is, let's produce energy, but do it in the most environmentally friendly way. and so we can't do away with our fossil fuel production. i'm sorry, that's just not realistic in today's world. but let's produce in an

environmentally sensitive way the energy that we need in our country from a variety of sources. and i happen to disagree completely with president biden's decision yesterday to suspend development and production of oil from the reserves that we have in the northern alaskan reserves. amna: but, sir, if i may, how would you lower emissions, which everyone agrees is a key way to address the climate change crisis? asa: well, we're doing that. the united states has reduced emissions. and, first of all, like in arkansas, we're utilizing nuclear. we need to continue to utilize nuclear fuel as an option for us. we have generated increased reliance upon solar and the alternative energy forces -- sources that we are -- we need. and so it has to be all of these. but we are moving even in the

production of gas and whether we utilize other energy sources. we're doing it in a more, better way that does not release the same level of co2s. and that's what we have to do. but let's produce. we have to be energy-independent and energy-dominant. amna: if i can ask to clarify your position on one issue around abortion, i know previously, in 2022, you had said that you oppose a national ban because it's inconsistent with the goal of returning the issue to the states. in an interview earlier this year on fox, though, you seemed to indicate that you would sign a 15-week ban. so, just to clarify for americans, would president hutchinson sign a 15-week ban if it made it to your desk? asa: well, the answer is that it would have to have reasonable exceptions in there before i would consider it, and as to exactly whether there's a consensus in our country. you mentioned the difference in my comments. i actually read the dobbs

decision more carefully. and it's pointed out that it didn't just return it to the states, but it returned it to our elected representatives. and i do believe that it's going to remain with the states, because, as a practical matter, we don't have that consensus developed nationally, and congress will not act. and so it's theoretical. if they did with the reasonable restrictions and reasonable exceptions, i would sign it, as you said, but i expect it to be left at the state level. and that's going to be the case for some time until a consensus is developed. amna: governor, you were a former federal prosecutor. and i do want to ask you about the news that federal prosecutors will be seeking an indictment against hunter biden by the end of this month. as you know, house republicans are making hunter biden a big part of their continuing push to potentially impeach president biden. do you think that that push to impeach is the right move? asa: well, there's enough

concern and lack of transparency that they need to determine whether -- in hunter biden's business dealings, whether the president received any benefit from that. that is the question or whether it changed any policies on his part. and that's inappropriate conduct, whether it's vice president or -- or as vice president or whether it's his president. and so there's a legitimate area to inquire. there's certainly not to the point of doing articles of impeachment. but those questions need to be answered for confidence that we have in our chief executive. hunter biden is in a world by himself, but if there is that connection and that's transference of money or other benefits to joe biden, then that has to be investigated. amna: looking back at the wider republican field right now, former president trump continues to lead by a wide margin. you have said that you don't believe he will be the nominee.

why do you believe that, when all the evidence we have seen so far points to the opposite? asa: there's an interesting poll that's out today that talks about how the alternatives to donald trump can actually win against joe biden. and that's one measure that the republicans are looking for, who can win. and then, secondly, the last debate that we had showcased that we had eight republicans on the stage. and i'm ready to lead as president. and the public saw that. and so there's a growing confidence that we are ready for an alternative. i think you will see those numbers change as time goes on. amna: former arkansas governor asa hutchinson, thank you so much for joining us. asa: thank you. good to be with you. ♪ geoff: with the new school year under way, we're going to spend

some time now looking at significant challenges that students, families, and districts around the country are facing. stephanie sy starts us off with a look at how this heat wave in much of the country is creating problems for schools. stephanie: geoff, these near-triple-digit temperatures have led to school districts either closing or dismissing students early in at least nine states this week. it's also raised questions about old school buildings, the lack of air conditioning, and ventilation concerns that arose during the peak of covid. joseph allen has long focused on this as the director of the healthy buildings program at harvard's chan school of public health. joe, it's a pleasure to have you on the "newshour." i want to start by asking, what should schools be doing now and going forward to better prepare for extreme heat? joseph: yes, so thanks for having me on. unfortunately, this was entirely predictable. i mean, the climate crisis is hitting us on two fronts. we're having longer, more

intense heat waves that start earlier in the season and showing up later in the season, like we have now. this is a particular problem for schools in traditionally cool weather climates that were designed to retain heat. so, what to do right now? at a minimum, we have to provide cooling for students, right? that is the simple answer. it's an obvious fix. the money is actually there. and it doesn't have to be more complicated than that. there are other things we need to do, but, in the immediate term, we can't have kids missing school because of heat. and this problem is only going to get worse. stephanie: and going forward, should -- do they need to retrofit these buildings to better handle the realities of climate change? joseph: yes, they do. and it's -- fortunately, it's not that hard. it's not that expensive. the money is there. and, also, i think we have to stop thinking of these as separate crises. and the crises i'm talking about are things like extreme heat events or exposure to wildfire smoke and air pollution or covid-19 and influenza. all of these crises run through our buildings. and they're crises because we're

not operating and designing our school buildings correctly. if we improve ventilation and filtration, we address covid-19, influenza, rsv, outdoor air pollution, wildfire smoke and, yes, extreme heat. so we're having these conversations all through the summer about different crises. they're all related. they all run through our buildings. and so do the solutions. stephanie: besides immediately installing hvac systems in northeast schools and ventilation systems, won't it take quite a long time to address the fact that so many schools in this country are just in old buildings? joseph: well, it seems like this is an overwhelming problem, but, fortunately, the solutions are really straightforward. and there are things you can do in any kind of building to make it more comfortable, more safe, improve ventilation, things like using heat pumps, which are also good for the climate crisis, in the sense that it can provide cooling through the use of electricity and heating through the use of electricity. i know school districts that did exactly that, installed heat pump pumps for each classroom. there are even basic things like air conditioning for the window

units while these larger replacements that need to take place are happening. i reject the notion that we can't act because it's too hard or too long. this money has been sitting around for years. so we had the covid crisis, and it wasn't spent. so this idea that maybe it was just too hard or too long, well, it's been years. why hasn't that been spent? and if we go even back longer, it's been decades since we have improved our school infrastructure. i tell you, this moment makes me really nervous, because we're never going to get these kind of funds again for our schools. we haven't in the history of our schools. and it's a chance to fix what has been decades of neglect of our school buildings. and we have to take a step back and recognize that the way our buildings are designed and running are having a massive impact on our kids' learning. and that's across respiratory infections all the way through extreme temperature and pollution. and it's not hard to do. and there's still -- it's -- the time to act was yesterday. and if you couldn't do it yesterday, you have to do it right now. stephanie: you keep saying that

the money is there. are you referring to the american rescue plan money, the billions of dollars that were put towards schools at the peak of the pandemic? should they have prioritized air conditioning and ventilation and air quality higher? joseph: yes, absolutely. that's the money i'm referring to. it's a once-in-a-generation opportunity to fix our crumbling school infrastructure. billions and billions of dollars were allocated towards school to improve ventilation and filtration to address covid-19. the shocking thing -- and everyone should be really upset about this -- is that, in many states, the majority of that money has not been spent. so think about that. we had a covid crisis, tens of millions of kids out of school, an airborne virus. we know ventilation and filtration help, and that money wasn't spent. now, that money is still available, but not for much longer. if we make these improvements to the school building for covid, it helps against those other infectious diseases and threats like this. it's totally unacceptable that we're closing schools due to extreme heat, when we know what the solution is. the money's there.

absolute basics in this country, we have to provide safe, healthy, and comfortable learning environments for our students and our teachers. i find this totally unacceptable. stephanie: yes. and this leads me to the questions about achievement and the heat and these other issue'' effects on student behavior. and i read a statistic that researchers at harvard have found heat effects account for 13% of the racial achievement gaps. so are we also seeing uneven impacts along racial lines? joseph: well, yes, we have the objective scientific data that shows it. and i don't think this would surprise anybody, but when you look at things like air quality or ventilation standards or rates of outdoor air brought into schools, we see that in schools that are predominantly black or hispanic student populations have even lower ventilation rates. we see the same thing in schools where the majority of students are on free or reduced lunch, so lower-income students. we see these schools have lower ventilation rates.

totally unacceptable that we have anyone in any school anywhere has an uncomfortable, unsafe, unhealthy environment, and then we also see disparities across race, ethnicity, and income. stephanie: joe allen at the harvard school of public health, thank you so much for your insights. joseph: yeah, thanks for having me on. geoff: thanks, stephanie. another issue that schools are facing at the start of this school year, paying for school lunches. during the first two years of the covid-19 pandemic, the federal government provided funding for free healthy school meals for all public school students, but that program ended in 2022. most states went back to the systems they had before, but some opted to continue providing free meals for all students. our communities correspondents, frances kai-hwa wang in michigan, adam kemp in oklahoma, and gabrielle hays in missouri have a look at where their states stand this school year. with a welcome to the three of you, frances, we will start with you. how did michigan respond to the end of the federal funding for

school meals? frances: this past july, michigan governor gretchen whitmer signed a historic $24.3 billion education budget, which included $160 million for free healthy meals for all of the state's 1.4 million public school students. now, that's breakfast and lunch, pre-kindergarten to 12th grade, and also for special education students to age 26. the budget had bipartisan support, and the state of michigan is now one of 10 states in the country that provide free healthy meals for all public school students. geoff: frances, how needed is this free lunch program across michigan? frances: according to feeding america, one in eight michigan children live in food-insecure households. advocates say that this move will make for better nutrition, for better learning, eliminate

the stigma against receiving free and reduced school lunches, and also will save families $850 a year. geoff: so, adam, over to you. oklahoma, as i understand it, tried to pass a bill that would have funded school meals in that state, but that program stalled, the proposal stalled. so how are schools faring now? adam: right. yes, oklahoma actually had a record budget surplus last year and still wasn't able to get this passed. it ended up stalling out before it reached committee. it had bipartisan support. both republicans and democrats were behind it. and it ended up where there were different education budget issues that were going on here in the state that really kept it from moving forward. and i have talked to some local school districts here about how they're trying to fill the gap right now. several are reaching out to local farms. there are community gardens and things like that. but anti-hunger advocates say that those programs aren't enough to keep kids fed and getting them the meals they need

at school. right now, there's a chance that this bill could be brought back this coming session. but i have talked to several people who are wondering how one in five oklahoma children who face food insecurity are going to get those meals every day. i talked to hunger free oklahoma president chris bernard just about what the impact could be from these kids facing this -- these insecurities. chris: we know food-insecure kids or kids who don't have access to food during the school day tend to do worse in reading and math and language acquisition early on. and if we're making large investments in education, say, in the academic space or in a new curriculum, you're really just kind of throwing your money away if you don't meet some of these other basics. geoff: and, gabby, missouri also tried to pass universal meal legislation. where does that stand? gabrielle: that's right, geoff. this legislative session, we saw

not one, but two different bills, one in the state house and one in the senate, that aimed to provide, as you said, universal school meals. neither of those bills made much traction and did not pass at all. but i think it's also important, when we're talking about this, to talk about how the state used these federal pandemic school meal dollars in the past, right? we know that there's been a healthy amount of reporting this year on how some families are just now getting these dollars, these benefits from last summer's allocation of funds or last summer's program. and so there's been a bit of an administrative holdup in even the benefits that they got before. and so we have some missouri families who are already sort of feeling that disruption and still waiting to get the benefits from even last year and

year before. geoff: gabrielle hays, adam kemp, and frances wang, thank you for sharing that reporting. ♪ and that is the "newshour" for tonight. i'm geoff bennett. amna: and i'm amna nawaz. on behalf of the entire "newshour" team, thank you for joining us. >> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by. the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. and friends of the "newshour." >> architect. beekeeper. mentor. a raymondjames financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life.

life well-planned. >> the ford foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide. and with the ongoing support of these institutions. and friends of the "newshour." this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> this is "pbs newshour" west from weta studios in washington and from our bureau at the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.]

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