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tv   BBC News The Context  PBS  September 26, 2023 5:00pm-5:31pm PDT

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♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned.
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narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. announcer: and now, "bbc news". new hello, i'm christian fraser. >> this is "the context." it is not merely an event driven or cyclical problem. it is a permanent and structural challenge to the developed nations in general and west in particular. >> what is needed is not of convention and it is applicable but what is needed is international political will and commitment to abide by the obligations and refugees understood the international framework. >> that is what they would have expected labor to say but the home secretary is trying to
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distract from her failures in the asylum system at home. >> the british home secretary calls for a global debate on tackling illegal migration. in that washington in washington she said the way asylum seekers shop around for a preferred destination is absurd and unsustainable. she called for an overhaul of the u.n. convention. we will get reaction from the united states and legal expert in the u.k. there is another refugee crisis developing in armenia tens of thousands fleeing nagorno-karabakh where troops have taken control and new evidence in the murder blamed on india a video shows a more complex operation than authorities had previously
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thought. >> good evening. in the last 10 days 11,000 migrants arrived on a small italian island. on the southern border of the united states 9,000 cross every day. their courts have a back log of 2.6 million cases of which 1.2 million were added since october. in context, which is what we do here the 23,000 people that crossed the channel this year is modest behind the trend last year and far behind the numbers rivering in southern europe. nonetheless, it is the british home secretary leading the charge for reform. she traveled to washington to call for a new way of looking at the u.n. refuse gentlemen convention saying the west needs a narrower definition of refugee and that convention first signed in 1951 is in her idea out of
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date. illegal migration is not just an event driven or cyclical problem but a permanent and structural challenge for the developed nations in general and west in particular. notice away act it will only worsen in the years to come. war, political instability and climate change will have exacerbated migration flows. at the ends of 2022, there were over 108 million forcibly displaced people globally with 29 million considered to be refugees by the u.n. hcr. we must be honest. the fundamental drivers of this epock -- epochs and democgraphy. it will be one of the top five global risks in the next decade ahead of national resource, geo
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economic confrontation and environmental disasters. >> before we get at some thoughts on this we will return to the original convention drafted post-war in 1951 we millions of people in europe were displaced and they defined it as someone unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well found fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality social coup r group or political opinion. a minimum standard for the treatment of refugees and it stipulated that refugees can't be penalized for breaching immigration rules while fleeing. almost 150 countries have signed up to it and it is still considered the cornerstone of the international asylum system. let's talk with an immigration
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ba barrister at south hampton law school. do you accept the premise that the refuse jae convention is out of date and being misused? >> i think that i'm fearing as an immigration lawyer i was expecting rivers of blood but first i got rivers of mud because it was a swamp lake talk over 30 minutes where there was a lot of technical error in relation to the law. she referred to the convention. we know that was amended by the tph 1967 article and she referred to gay men and women and refuse jaes purely on that which were highly inaccurate. so i was very concerned at the beginning that this is going to be a speech which would directly impact on the u.k.'s approach to
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refugee cases when the majority of what she said, 90% was based on cultural norms regarding nationality and multiculturalism and 5% refugee cases so the jazz majority was technically erroneous but the signpost is never about stop the boats, it is stop about any refuse jae coming to the u.k. claiming asylum and being reported. >> i sort of touched on the disparity of those coming to the u.k. and other countries but it is true what she says that cities and countries cannot grow exponentially and provide the services for tens of thousands of people arriving at once without breaking the trust and charity of people who do want to extend help to those genuinely at risk of persecution. it is undeniable mixed with
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those asylum seekers genuine are tens of thousands of economic might go grants. >> the figures are not supported by the facts so let's break that down. the first issues not everybody is arriving en masse. the u.k. didn't create this. there are 175,000 who came waiting decision on their asylum claims. thimmigration minister said it is not to reduce the numbers waiting. that is why we've the overbearing burden on our housing crisis. >> but you are talking specifically about the u.k. and i'm talking about the macro debate. it is undeniable you just had 11,000 in lampadoosa. there are 9,000 a day over the texas border and they have 1.2 million case the to be processed since october.
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skwra>> the majority of refugee remember the biggest are people who are internally re-elected to another part of their own country but the majority of refugees are sub-saharan africa and neighboring countries so they are not coming at once. we have crisis points in relation to thanks and what is happening in italy and that is why the european union has gotten into it framework regarding sharing of refugees and we ought to not depart from that agreement. but we have to get the response and focus that the majority of refuse jaes are -- the home secretary talked about 780 million are estimated who would want to come to the u.k. i want to win the lottery.
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that do not mean i will win it. we have to have a reality check. we have to focus on getting resources. taking another contrasting theme, japan and singapore they have birth rates that are basically nil. they don't have younger generations through the birth rate to care for the elderly so migration is very much imperative to ensure that where there are failing birth rates i was amazed of one in if i have migrants we need to have birth rates or otherwise they won't have people to look after elderly and grow the population. >> that is certainly true, a lot of with respect countries labor supply is under great strain. stay there because i want to get some reaction from the united states. one thing she pointed to was the
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inadequate integration of those arriving. how big a problem has that been in your home state of texas where they are currently streaming across the border? >> it has been a bug problem in texas and been a problem that the republican governor of texas has tried to address essentially by putting them on bussed and sending them to major northern cities like new york city and washington, d.c. there's a processing center for honor durans and you can see people around the block every day trying to get their immigration papers and chicago is another place, los angeles. it is swamping the border towns but what the texas governor did, governor abbott is picking them up and moving them elsewhere and that is creating a processing challenge even in places like new york that has declared a state of mental because their social services have been swamped by the number of un
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documented migrants arriving. >> reform has been elusive even at a that the level. no one in congress would dispute there's a crisis but if you can't reform at a national level what hope do you have with 150 nations? >> i can speak to that being a challenge in the united states and part of that is because republicans see the problem and their solution is increased border security turning people back at the border and having a wall language the u.s.-mexico border and more draconian policies. democrats look at the same problem and they see a problem of accommodation for the migrants they want to have a more humanitarian program and they are trying to control the immigration at the source in venezuela and southern districts of mexico and central america that is creating the drive of people leaving their own countries because their life
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there is so bad that they are willing to risk the migration through mexico and into the united states even without any kind of guarantee they will be given a him here. >> that is the point that the home secretary was making, is it not they are not at risk necessarily of persecution although some may well be, it is a train of people coming because of climate change, their economic circumstances have changed dramatically and because there's the promise of a better life across the american border. what she is saying is there needs to be a change to the convention to recognize the reality of where we are 70 odd years from the signing of the original convention. >> she had an interesting lane about the immigration policies weren't crafted for an age of electronics and jet travel. but most of the people are coming across the united states border in boats like the u.k. or planes. they are coming on foot or on trains and there are a number of
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reasons f it. one of the big drivers that has caused this upswing in cross-border immigration is venezuela and humanitarian, political, economic situation in venezuela is creating a him stpaoerbg in country like colombia and mexico and now filling up and spilling on to the border. united states. that is not a question of reforming the policy. these people are willing to leaf venezuela no matter what to get out of the country because their lives there are unsustainable. >> maybe, doctor, it is reform of the way we deal with conflicts and refuse jae crises around the world is more urgent. but the point is, as anthony is saying, governments are taking things into their own hands with more draconian measures. if you don't reform don't
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country opt out? >> thank is for countries to decide. the problem proposed by the home secretary she wants them to claim asylum once she says it is safe country and it doesn't say that and it is not in relation to the method or journey of those individuals who came. that is upblg. so, the detail it did have when you stack up to the realities it is just a right wing political thought for political leadership and nothing really to do with actual change in relation to how the world treats refugees. >> how much, anthony, do you think this becomes part of the debate next year in the general election? is immigration at the top of the list of people's priorities? >> it is high up on the list and was in 2016. donald trump made it and building the border wall and
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sta starting migrants an essential theme in his campaign that generated resentment and anger from his base that he felt something was being deprived of them and he is running again and probably will be the nominee again and i think it is a guarantee that he will make immigration another central component of his presidential campaign. and joe biden because of this upck in migration during his three years as president is going to have to answer for that and that will be a criticism he will have to respond to because if you look at polls it is an issue americans care about. she say the pictures and read the newspapers and know what is going on not only on the border but in new york and chicago and los angeles that are having to deal with the crisis. >> doctor, you pickeded out plenty of inconsistencies. there is one. she said being gay from a country that has outlawed
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homosexuals effectively enough to qualify for protection. i just will a look at that. from the research i have looked at lgbtq is cited in only 1% of asylum claims. is she talking about something that is not actually a problem? >> i think she needs to read asylum 101. it is 2% from last year but not only do you have to be gay but from a country where openly gay people face a well founded fear of persecution. that has been a law since we have been looking at refuse jae claims so to say just being gay or a woman or a country where you may face discrimination is not a point i'm familiar with. into is the kindest way to put it in relation to the law on refuse gentlemen status. >> always good to get your expertise, doctor.
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around the world and across the u.k. this is bbc news. we will take a look at other stories making news. the former coach 26 said he will not stand at the next looks. he made the announcement on x formerly none as twitter. he said it was not easy and he will continue to support his conservative colleagues. hundreds of schools in scotland were closed because of a three-day strike by support staff. members who are teaching assistants, cleaners walked off after talks failed over pay. the local government negotiator said her members need a serious pay you've. a hospital trust blamed computer error for 24,000 letters not being sent to patients and g.p. they approximately gisted which dates back it 18. this is what should happen we
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the patient were discharged but a significant number were written by specialist clinics spelling out required care. the f.b.i. issued warnings to at least three people active in the sikh in the community after a murder of one in canada. the canadian prime minister mid it on the india government based on one of canada's partners in the intelligence sharing alliance. the new reporting suggested that partner could have been the united states. indiana india -- india conditioned it and "washington post" said it saw a is video a 90-second recording of with his murder which points to a larger and more organized operation
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than previously been reported. i must point out we've not seen the video so we can't verify it but we can speak to a reporter who has watched it who joins us from washington. thank you for coming on the program. so, describe it for us what. do you see in this 90-second video? >> hi. you can see seeing the car pull up and see his car drive toward the exit in british columbia and 10 on the left-hand side you see a white sedan come toward it and at one point both cars are driving by each other and you notice we the car speeds up the white car also speeds up showing that they are maintaining pace and as the car merges into the left lane to fully exit is we
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the white sedan schedule ritz, speeds up adds comes in front to block the car. also i think it is person it note you can see in the video niger was blocked and shot by the gunman. while he was still inside because as community members they were very upset at the killing but they made a note of the fact they did this inside our house of worship. >> so what you have seen then, you would suggest, with you this involves multiple people and looks like a coordinated attack? >> so, i mean the fact that the car was following him, there was a car waiting for him and this is one car and we believe there is a second car which is the get away car and witnesses said there were three other people already inside that carta these two gunmen got into which would
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suggest there were at least six people aunt two cars which leads us to believe it is a more complex and coordinated operation than we phraoefrl -- we previously thought. >> what else do we know that has come out from the canadian media since mr. trudeau made this announcement? what do we know about the reasoning behind his announcement? >> the reasoning behind his announcement is an investigation or intelligence gathering that is happening at the international level. the investigation that i was able, the video that i saw and all of that fwas the investigation being done by ihid. we are not sure if -- i mean i cannot speak to the fact that the local authority and federal authorities are sharing information. i can't speak to the fact that,
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you know, whether they are basing these allegations on what the local authorities gathered. these might be two separate sources of information for all we know. >> when you put it all together and we pull in the statement from the f.b.i. or evidence from the f.b.i. they were advising people in the united states to be careful days after this murder, does it surprise you that other western governments although they have been lukewarm in their support for justin trudeau is about as far as they have gone. is it lack of evidence or a more geopolitical reason? >> that is for each government to kind of like decide on their own. i think as more evidence, what i can tell you is as more evidence comes through as the investigation moves on because
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commune members and rants who are involved also say it is a slow moving investigation. you think we're past the three-month mark and there is very little the police has announced publicly. i feel like as more information comes and more evidence is released and shard with people perhaps things will change geopolitically is whether i can say. but -- yeah. >> that gives us some new information. we will wait to see what the canadian government makes of it. thank you for coming on the program. in a closely related issue the armenianovernment says they have taken in 28,000 refugees who crossed in from nagorno-karabakh since ari azerbaijan took control. the only road connected is packed with hundreds of cars and buses carrying throws desperate to get out.
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the government wants to reintegrate ethnic armenians as equal citizens but the prime minister said that is designed to mask a process of ethnic cleansing that is under way. the enclave of nagorno-karabakh is recognized as part of azerbaijan but for three decades understood the criminal of the karabakh armed forces who have surrendereded a disarmed. -- surrendered and disarmed. >> this area is working through the night because the funnel fleeing nagorno-karabakh is growing all the time. we were at the last clock point from nagorno-karabakh earlier today and saw hundreds of people coming across every hour and they were crammed into the tiniest of cars, huge families with everything they could carry. i saw a truck with 25 children in the back. so huge numbers coming across.
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azerbaijan has said it will guarantee the safety of any ethnic armenians who class to stay in nagorno-karabakh but i ask people why they are leaving and they don't trust the promises. there is too much history and bad blood andhey are afraid to stay. not that there is someone them to leave physically but they are afraid to stay there. the other thing to mention about this when i ask people what they think they will be going home i have not will a subjective person who thinks they will ever go back to nagorno-karabakh because it is more like an, dust than a temporary evacuation. >> one of the human rights observers of the united states and information she gathered from those fleak and the u.s. government providing $12 million to help those. on the other side we will talk about the fruit and vegetables on you are plate and how they might be changing to reflect our
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changing climate. and airbnb and vice premiere in italy saying the restrictions go o far. do they. should we allow so many houses to be rented in narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: financial services fm, raymond james. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned.

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