wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. now you won't miss a thing. this is the way. the xfinity 10g network. amna: good evening. i'm amna nawaz. geoff: and i'm geoff bennett. on the "newshour" tonight, fighting intensifies around gaza city as civilians still there continue to bear the brunt of

heavy bombardment one month after the hamas attacks. amna: the supreme court hears a challenge to a law preventing domestic abusers from having guns. geoff: and as colleges and universities rework their admissions policies, one kentucky school stands by free tuition. >> more innovative, creative thinking is what higher ed needs right now, when people are really questioning what's the return on investment in higher ed. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions, and friends of the newshour, including kathy and paul anderson and camilla and george sand. >> consumer cellular, this is sam. how may i help you?

this is pocket dial but i thought i would let you know that with consumer cellular you get nationwide service with no contract. that's kind of our thing. have a nice day. >> you don't need vision to do most things in life. it's exciting to be part of a team driving the technology forward. that's the most rewarding thing. people who know know bdo. >> the john s and james l knight foundation, fostering an informed and engaged communities. more at kf.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and individuals.

this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. geoff: welcome to the newshour. today marks one month since the hamas terror attacks of october 7. in israel, there were vigils of remembrance and in gaza the fighting and killing continues. president biden said he asked israeli prime minister netanyahu for a pause in fighting. amna: the israeli army has now encircled gaza city and its pursuit of hamas as tens of thousands of terrified civilians stream toward southern gaza, a fraught and dangerous path amid ongoing israeli bombardment. once again this evening, leila molana-allen begins our coverage. leila: along the south bound of

the gaza strip, palestinians flee from the north in droves, some waving white flags. many of them children, making the long walk without shoes. in the distance, smoke rises over the city naseem left behind, his home under siege. >> [translated] we are heading south as they told us to do. we are walking and don't know to -- don't know where we will go. to schools, to sleep on the streets, to sleep at people's places, only god knows. leila: the exodus in gaza follows new evacuation orders from israel. ground forces have surrounded gaza city. and the military claims it has already destroyed hamas strongholds, including those hidden underground. >> [translated] for the first time in decades, the israeli defense forces are fighting in the heart of gaza city, at the heart of terrorism. this is a complex and difficult war and to my sorrow, it also comes at a price. leila: for many, leaving the city center isn't an option. gaza's largest hospital, al-shifa, has looked like this for the past month.

crammed inside and out with thousands of civilians, some of them patients, others homeless. lama now has nowhere else to sleep but on the floors of these hallways. >> [translated] look at our situation. is this a life that we are living? we have no food, no electricity or water. we sleep in the corridors, without any blankets. my daughter died last friday at al shifa. my daughter died a martyr and i remain a patient. leila: today, u.s. officials said more than 400 american citizens have now been safely evacuated from the strip. and the state department said the u.s. will not support any forced relocation of palestinians outside of gaza. one month on, israelis commemorated the victims of the october 7 hamas terror attacks and prayed for those still held

hostage in gaza in candlelit vigils across the country. earlier today, crowds gathered for a moment of silence. >> as far as tactical little pauses, an hour here, an hour there -- leila: in an abc interview last night, israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu maintained his opposition to a cease-fire and hinted at his intentions for the gaza strip in the long term. >> i think israel will, for an indefinite period, will have the overall security responsibility because we've seen what happens when we don't have it. when we don't have that security responsibility, what we have is the eruption of hamas terror on a scale that we couldn't imagine. leila: but back in gaza, what happens after the war -- who wins, who loses, who governs whom - is the last thing on people's minds. most urgent here is survival. this neighborhood in khan younis was jolted awake by a nighttime airstrike.

abu jihad says the chances of narrowly dodging strike after strike are growing slimmer by the day. >> [translated] thank god we are safe, but i swear we are waiting for death in each moment, it's a suspended death. leila: one brutal month of war, gone by but no hope for an end in sight. for the pbs newshour, i'm leila molana-allen in tel aviv, israel. amna: last night we brought you leila's interview with the palestinian authority prime minister, muhammad shtayyeh. tonight, nick schifrin gets the perspective of a top adviser to the israeli government. nick: the biden administration has been pressing israel to limit palestinian casualties, have a plan for the future of gaza, and president biden confirmed tonight the request of pausing israel's military operation to release hostages. to discuss that, we turn to mark

regev, senior adviser to the israeli prime minister and a former israeli ambassador to the united kingdom. president biden confirmed he had asked president netanyahu for a to release hostages. the prime minister has confirmed tactical little pauses, an hour here or there, but are you willing to do a more significant pause to release hostages? >> as you have said in your question -- and thank you for having me -- we are open to pauses. we have done so in the past and are willing to do so in the future. we had two pairs of hostages that were released, a pair of american women and a pair of israeli women separately, and they were released in the framework of a local and time-limited pause in operations. we did that to facilitate people moving out of harm's way, civilians moving north to south.

we have done it to facilitate the entrance to the gaza strip of food, medicine, and water. we have done it in the past and can do it in the future. nick: the icrc physically move them, but this pause request is more detailed. the deal is a three day pause for 10 to 15 hostages as well as the list of all 214 hostages. can you confirm? >> i am not in position to confirm. i can tell you for us the number one humanitarian issue is getting hostages out. to do that, we would be willing to do a pause, that's a given. nick: how far are you willing to go? >> obviously it's a number one priority. 240 people are being held. of them, 30 children. of them, a baby nine months old, infants under the age of three.

it shows you what we are dling with. what sort of barbarians kidnap babies, toddlers? we are dealing with a very dangerous terrorist group who has no qualms whatsoever about kidnapping children. we saw how many children they killed when they invaded israel. we are dealing with difficult people. we hope we can get our people out. we hope the pressure on them will facilitate and expedite the release of hostages. nick: you said you hope the medill at -- the military operation pressures them to release hostages. are you also providing any carrots to convince them to release hostages? >> the military pressure we think is what needs to be done. there are in parallel talks qatar is conducting. qatar has a relationship with hamas. the hamas leadership lives in qatar, hosted by the government,

and qatar tells the world we have a relationship with these people and that's good for the west. we have a relationship with people who committed the atrocities of october 7, the massacre, people who raped, murdered, massacred, burned people alive. terrible things. the government of qatar say this relationship serves the interest of the west. we are waiting to see, can you leverage your relationship to expedite the release of hostages? i hope they succeed. we are waiting to see if there are results. nick: qatar is in the middle of the hostage negotiation, as you say. let me move to the day after the war in gaza. yesterday the prime minister told david muir that israel planned indefinite security control over gaza. does that include controlling any territory inside gaza? >> we are not talking about long-term israeli occupation.

we have no desire to rule over the people of gaza and we have no desire to govern in the gaza strip. you have to make a distinction between political control and security presence. ultimately we don't want to defeat hamas and destroy them just to see another group of terrorists threaten us from the gaza strip again. at least at the beginning, following this operation, to prevent resurgent terrorist groups, we will need an israeli security presence. that doesn't have to be static, that could be fluid, could be going in and out as needed to deal with possible threats. nick: sorry to interrupt, you just slipped and almost said political presence. to confirm, you are not talking about any kind of governance in gaza, just security presence? could that include a buffer zone? >> yes, there will be a buffer

zone. there needs to be after what we have been through. hamas has been ruling the gaza strip for 16 years and have produced nothing for the palestinians, nothing but pain, bloodshed, suffering. whoever comes after hamas will be better for israel because citizens in the southern part of my country will be able to live without fear of having my children butchered in the middle the night by having terrorists come from the frontier. we want something better than this terrorist regime that doesn't give a hoot about the well-being of the gazan civilian population. nick: to have peace in southern israel, there will have to be governance of gaza. the u.s. has suggested that could be taken over by the u.s. authority. the prime minister of the palestinian authority was asked by my colleague about this and he said that pa will not go into

gaza on an israeli military tank and the only way that pa would participate in the governance of gaza was as part of a solution that deals with the question of palestine and occupation. will the israeli government consider to pursue a two state solution if that is what the pa requires to take over gaza? >> if we are having a discussion about the pa, we are a month after the horrific attacks and the pa has yet to condemn those attacks. if the pa wants to be a partner in peace, one has to ask why they refuse to condemn hamas trivia's atrocities. why can't -- hamas's atrocities. we have all seen the atrocities. if they can't condemn that, what sort of partner in peace are the? nick: let me move for the ground campaign and show you some video of the aftermath of the attack on a refugee camp. the target was hamas commanders

and a tunnel under that camp for when the tunnel collapsed, an entire city block collapse. how many gazans are you willing to kill inadvertently to kill hamas leaders? >> you have been reporting on the newshour, for weeks we have been urging palestinians in northern gaza strip to relocate south because we knew there would be intense fighting in the north and we asked people to move out of danger. we don't want to see you caught up in the crossfire between israeli defense forces and hamas terrorists. the majority of the population did move south and exited the area. hamas tried to stop them, ordered people to stay, presented greater physical barriers and kept people in. our goal was to get most people

out of the combat area to keep them safe. nick: there are still the hundred thousand people in northern gaza. if israel could kill one hamas commander, take out one tunnel and know that 100 civilians would be killed, would you take that shot? >> first of all, you don't know that 100 civilians were killed. we don't know. i saw some of those pictures. they all look like men of military age. of course you know the hamas terrorists don't wear uniforms and we have to understand that. it also has to be said that the information coming out of gaza is supplied by the hamas-controlled ministry of health and have to be taken with a grain of salt. i daresay even the pictures coming out of gaza are controlled by thomas. we have not seen a single picture of one hamas terrorist

killed by the israelis. they only show pictures of civilians. are we only killing civilians, which is obviously illogical, or is hamas managing to control the pictures? nick: there are women and children dying. i only have 30 seconds. do you worry that israel is creating a new generation of palestinians who will join hamas or whatever comes after with these bombings, or do you worry these bombings will create more pressure on your campaign before you can get your goals completed? >> i hope that at the end of this operation that hamas will be gone, and they will be, we will succeed in doing that. i think we will have discredited the sort of extremism, fanaticism, and barbarism that hamas has shown. palestinians need to understand that hamas only promises a future of blood and suffering,

while the path of cooperation, negotiation, living with israel in peace offers so much more. the arab world has opened up to israel in the last few years like never before. we have seen the relationships formed. there was talk of israel and saudi arabia normalizing. it's time palestinians also joined the circle of peace. nick: we will have to finish there. thank you very much. geoff: the israeli communities attacked on october 7th were scenes of extreme horror and inhumanity. now, one month later, leila molana-allen and her team were granted access to a kibbutz that perhaps suffered the most grievously. a warning that some images and accounts in this story are disturbing. >> the kibbutz is my home. i am sitting in my backyard. my home is three minutes from

the gaza strip. leila: on october 7, a 74-year-old israeli peace activist vivian silva was kidnapped by hamas terrorists, along with her neighbors young and old. many more were slaughtered in their homes. this once peaceful agricultural commune has now become a makeshift military base. you still see bullets all over the lord here. combat officer ronnie used to work at tel aviv's art museum. for the past month he has been running the operation to clear the damage. >> we are still finding barred bodies around the house. two days ago we found the hand of a person. we found a jaw of a person. leila: first the rampaging militants attacked homes with hand grenades, rpg's, and gunfire, then set them ablaze, hoping to smoke out families hiding inside.

many were burned alive. >> this is one house but there are 30 like it. leila: in homes that were not set ablaze, the full horror remains. an entire family was murdered in this house. in this bedroom, bullet holes across the walls and covered in blood where one member was killed in their bed. every day became weapons of slaughter. behind the door, signs of a struggle, a desperate attempt to escape. dark red footprints lead from a pool of blood, the knife lying where it fell. hamas brought some of its worst destruction here in the largest village along the gaza border. more than 100 people killed, dozens kidnapped, some with their fates still unknown. it's almost unimaginable people could still want to live here, but a small group are determined to try.

they dozen young residents have returned, armed and assisted by the soldiers stationed here, here to try to rebuild, to help grieving families retrieve mementos, to protect what is left of the streets they grew up on. roy moved to tel aviv six months ago. on october 7 he watched in disbelief as his childhood home was destroyed. >> it was terrifying, above all my nightmares. leila: no army came to help, no police. a few locals did their best with the weapons they had. hours away, roy could do nothing. >> there was like 12, 11 guys. they fought against 300 terrorists. i felt useless. you see in the news and the whatsapp groups and the local group, people are saying they

are killing us, burning us alive. leila: roy lost his faith in humanity that day. he has given up his job. his only mission for now, he says, is to be here. roy's friend was here that morning. at 7:00 a.m., he was taking shelter from incoming hamas rocket fire, not unusual so close to gaza, but a sudden call from his parents away on holiday told him something was very wrong, and his 18-year-old sister was all alone. then she messaged, i am afraid, terrorists have got in. >> [translated] so i grabbed my bike and rode to my parents house. there were already terrorists roaming around the kibbutz. i did not know that at the time. all i wanted was to save my sister. i take the gun from her in this room. the army didn't come, nobody came.

we heard gunshots, chaos across the whole kibbutz. hundreds of terrorists. leila: over and over, the terrorists came back. he held the door for nearly 12 hours. >> i see my life is, you know -- leila: over. >> [translated] my little sister started crying. she said to me, do something. they were very close to opening the shelter door. at the last second i managed to pull it closed again. at last they fled, apparently due to the gunfire from the idf that surrounded them. around 7:00, the army arrived and rescued us. leila: now he, like most of the survivors, has been evacuated to relative safety on the border of jordan. but he is not going anywhere. >> [translated] our vision, together with the young members of the kibbutz, is to rebuild it. we want to live here. we don't feel fear.

we heal ourselves by fighting for our home. leila: a way of life has been shattered. many survivors say they can never go home again. for those who do, life in these once tranquil farming communities will never be the same. ♪ geoff: in the day's other headlines, major races are being decided as polls start closing on this off-year election day. governor's contests are the marquee matchups, with two incumbents -- kentucky democrat andy beshear and mississippi republican tate reeves -- defending their seats. in ohio, voters are deciding whether to add an abortion-rights amendment to the state constitution. and control of the virginia legislature is at stake. the special prosecutor investigating hunter biden denied any political interference in his probe today.

david weiss appeared before the house judiciary committee, the first time a special counsel has done so during an investigation. in prepared remarks, behind closed doors, weiss said -- quote -- "political considerations played no part in our decision-making." weiss testified to address concerns raised by whistleblowers and some house republicans about the pace of the investigation. macron germany, chancellor olaf scholz and 16 state governors reached agreement today on curbing a surge of migrants into the country. that came as shelters have filled up, and applications for asylum have jumped 70% over last year. scholz had come under growing pressure to take action. he announced the agreement at a news conference in berlin. >> [translated] i believe this is a historic moment. in light of an unquestionably huge challenge with very large numbers of migrants and irregular migration, all levels of the state have managed to closely cooperate.

people expect this of us. geoff: bangladesh will raise its minimum-wage for garment workers to $113 a month. the country is the second largest garment producer in the world. today's decision followed weeks of protests and clashes with police that killed two workers and wounded dozens. but some workers' groups said the hike is not enough. the office sharing company we work has filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. the firm was once valued at $47 billion but struggled throughout the pandemic. many corporate clients canceled leases as millions of employees worked from home. and on wall street, stocks ticked higher. the dow jones industrial average closed at 34,152. the nasdaq rose 121 points. the s&p 500 added 12. still to come, a conversation with robert f. kennedy, jr. about his presidential bid.

we examine what a potential president trump second term would look like. and as universities rework admissions policies, one kentucky school stands free tuition. >> this is the pbs newshour from w eta studios in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. geoff: the u.s. supreme court heard arguments today in a major case looking at whether people with domestic violence court orders should be barred by federal law from owning guns. the case is the first involving gun rights to come before the highest court since a ruling last year loosening gun restrictions. demonstrators gathered outside the court, stressing the impact the ruling could have on dems of domestic abuse. we are joined by legal analyst marcia coyle.

they talked about the history of gun rights. how did the sides navigate that? >> in 20, the conservative majority not only ok'd open carry but announced this new test. the test says to become constitutional, gun rights have to be consistent with the historical tradition of gun regulation. we are looking at pre-1900 for either a comparable regulation -- doesn't have to be a twin, or a regulation that's a close analog to the regulation being challenged. amna: before the 1900s. >> history and tradition, yeah. the biden administration has brought this appeal because they lost in the lower court. the solicitor general of the united states argued that history and tradition supports the government disarming individuals who are dangerous, although she first used the broader term supports the

disarming of individuals who are not responsible or not law-abiding. she was pressed on the meaning of responsible because she said that's what's at issue in this case. she equated it with dangerousness. the court did seem to be open to that because she was able to give some examples from history and tradition of the disarming of people who are mentally ill and committed to institutions, even intoxicated individuals who could be dangerous. i think in general, after the arguments and the justices' comments, they will uphold the federal law and there will be a focus on dangerousness, the government being able to prove the individual is dangerous, but you are not going to see a rewriting of the test. these six conservatives still

seem quite beholden to attribute i think it will be very important exactly what the court says when it rewrites the opinion as to the effect on other gun laws and also court cases in the pipeline. geoff: one concern the conservative justices raised was whether the process of determining whether someone is raised, whether that process is fair. our team spoke with clark nearly of the cato institute, a libertarian think tank, and he wrote an amicus brief outlining these concerns. >> of course someone who really is a domestic abuser should have not only their guns taken away, but also be kept away from the from the victim. no question about that. but this law was really poorly written. the federal law that is being challenged in the case allows the federal government to suspend somebody's fundamental right of armed self-defense without any showing ever having been actually made that they are, in fact, dangerous. and i think that's a problem. geoff: how do the two sides

navigate that specific question. >> the government says that you can show dangerousness. justice barrett asked, how do you prove dangerousness? one of the ways is you have a court order. or there is the legislature. they have passed laws that defined categories of people who may be dangerous and shouldn't have guns, and also consensus. 48 states and territories do have these laws. what professor neely was talking about also goes to the issue of fairness and due process. some justices had questions about the protective orders themselves. were they really temporary? rahimi's lawyers said they are often permanent by default.

what do you do, one justice asked, if you have a he said/c shed situation or mutual protective orders? those comments go to a due process issue, fairness and notice. really that is not at issue in this particular case, although ricky's lawyers said it's important to keep that in mind because his argument is there is nothing in history and tradition like this federal band. two, what congress did hear is it bootstrapped a one-sided process onto a complete denial of a constitutional right. there are other consequences. justice kavanaugh pointed out background checks do consider protective orders. he noted in one of the briefs it was pointed out that over a 25 year span, 75,000 licenses were denied because a protective order was in the background check.

the solicitor general said to the court we have to be careful with the language here because there are courts that have already struck down a federal ban on possession of guns by felons and the possession of guns that have no serial numbers. there is a lot going on in the lower courts that will eventually come to the supreme court. geoff: thank you for your insights. >> a pleasure. ♪ amna: this election season, we have seen a handful of outsiders seeking to challenge president biden and his likely opponent, former president donald trump as third party or independent candidates. one is robert f. kennedy jr., son of former attorney general robert f. kennedy and a longtime environmental lawyer. a recent national poll shows in a three-way matchup with biden and trump, kennedy has support from 22% of registered voters.

i sat down with him earlier this week to discuss his campaign, and i asked him why he thinks he's connecting with voters. >> i think people are ready to -- people are tired of the vitriol. they're tired of the polarization. you know, we've made a big effort at trying to talk about issues, about the values that americans hold in common and in the culture or issues that drive everybody apart. you know, i've been focused on being civil, but i think most important, people really want to hear the truth and they want to hear the truth about a lot of different issues. and they feel -- americans feel that they are being lied to. by the media, by government agencies that are supposed to be honest with the american people, and they're feeling that the system is rigged against them, that the middle class is disintegrating in this country, and that nobody is hearing them,

that they are not -- you know, that the government and the system are rigged against them. amna: how do you translate that polling support, which is, to be clear, a year out -- a lot can happen in the next year -- how do you translate that into electoral support? i mean, because independent campaigns, especially ones as large as yours, they faced legal challenges in the past, external pressure. you look at ralph nader in 2004. what is your path to 270? are you targeting specific states, for example? >> yeah, we're targeting specific states. and you know, you're right. amna: which states are you targeting or targeting? >> i mean, all of the traditional battleground states are states that we think we can do really well in. all i need to do. amna: you're talking wisconsin, pennsylvania. >> and all i need to do in those states -- arizona, ohio, georgia -- all i need to do in those states is get 37 -- 34% of the vote and i can walk away with 270 electors. because the electors are winner

take all and it's signed by plurality rather than majority. amna: but are you near 34 in any of those states? >> i am at 22 now a year out. nobody's ever been. amna: that is nationally. >> nationally. nobody has ever, you know, that i know of in our history, has ever been -- except for george washington as the last independent president -- has ever been this high in the polls, this far out and among , particularly among key constituencies, young people and independents. so, you know, i don't know what will happen. and i am not a good spin person, but i feel pretty good about where i am today. i think i'd rather be in my position than i would in president trump's position or president biden. amna: can i ask you another question about your candidacy? because a number of your own family members have spoken out against it. four of your siblings issued a statement denouncing your candidacy, saying it's dangerous

for the country. they wrote in a statement, bobby might share the same name as our father, he doesn't share the same values, vision or judgment. your family are icons of the democratic party. they do not typically speak out against their own, but they are in this case. why? >> well, i have 105 family members, living family members. amna: these are your siblings >> a lot are supporting me. let me ask you this. does your family always agree with everything that you do? amna: they don't always agree with me, but i think they'd vote for me if i ran for president. >> well, a lot of them are going to vote for me, but not all of them. amna: your siblings, though, i would argue, who know you better. >> my family has a long history with president biden. there's five members of my family that are working for the administration. and president biden has a statue, a bust of my father behind him at the oval office. we've -- i've known president biden virtually my entire life. all the people in my family or many of the people, including all the people that you mention there, the four members of my

family, have strong come along -- strong, long friendships with president biden. and i understand they're disappointed that i would run against him. amna: but they're more than disappointed, sir. they're saying that it's dangerous for the country. >> well, you would have to ask them, why don't you have them on the show and asked them that? i understand, you know, and this is i think one of the problems is with the democratic party right now is that nobody is saying about president biden we want him for president because he is going to give us a vigorous leadership, that he has the energy, that he has the cognitive ability to inspire americans. instead, what they're saying is you got to vote for him despite all of the defects that are clear to everybody, because if you don't vote for him, somebody worse is going to get in there. and that's what they mean by that word dangerous.

i think that the democratic party has to offer americans a better, more positive vision for this country than just do what we say or president trump is going to, you know, endanger our democracy. we should be able to do more than that. we should be able to inspire people. and i think that's why so many young people and independents are supporting me because they're tired of the fear tactics. they are tired of being manipulated through orchestrated fear. and they want something to inspire them. amna: let me ask you, if i may, let me ask you about a specific concern your family's expressed in the past, too, which is your controversial views on on vaccines and being part of the anti-vaccine -- >> what are the other vaccines? amna: well, you've said previously that no vaccine is safe or effective -- >> i never said that. amna: you did say that in a podcast interview in july. you did say that, there are quotes and that reporting is there. >> you are wrong and you are

making something up. amna: on fox news you said that you still believe in this idea that vaccines can cause autism, which has long been. >> you are changing the subject. no, sir. i'm asking about your views on vaccines. >> well, i am happy to say that. my views are that vaccine should be tested like all other medications are tested. they should have had placebo controlled trials prior to licensure. it's the only medical product, the only medical product or medical device, that's allowed to get a license without engaging in a safety test. amna: so you do not believe the statement that no vaccine is safe and effective? >> i never said that. amna: according to the reports and the recording we have in a podcast interview in july -- >> that's the problem if you are reading reports about me in the mainstream media, including this network, they're almost all inaccurate. i'm not anti-vax, i've never been anti-vax. amna: you just spoke before one of the largest anti-vaccine groups in the country a few days ago. >> that's not what they call themselves. amna: that's not what they call

themselves, but that's what they advocate for >> you knw what, i speak to a lot of people and i don't agree and i don't pretend to agree with everything that everybody in the audience says. i have said -- listen, i fought against mercury in fish for 40 years. nobody called me any fish. i like the idea that we have seatbelts in cars. nobody calls me anti-automobile. i want vaccines that are safe just like every other medicine and that are adequately tested. it doesn't mean i'm anti-vaccine. it just means that i'm sensible and common sense. i think most americans, if they understood my views, my real views, rather than the distortions of my views and the mischaracterizations that they hear from the mainstream media, including this network, that they would agree with me. amna: i'll just say there's evidence of these statements on the record. >> show me a statement. amna: i would be happy to.

>> show me a statement other than what you call evidence of a statement. amna: let me ask you more broadly about 2024 and where we are right now, a year away from the date people will cast ballots. we know in their respective parties mr. trump and mr. biden are still leading by wide margins. regardless of how high you are polling, the latest numbers from quinnipiac show 64% of republican leaning voters supporting mr. trump, 77% of democrats and dem leaning voters supporting mr. biden. if those numbers do not shift, how do you decide if and when you should end your candidacy? >> i have no intention of ending my candidacy. i have an intention to win. i'm way ahead of any independent candidate in history right now, and i intend to win the election. amna: robert f kennedy, candidate for president as an independent candidate, we thank you for coming by. appreciate you being here. >> thank you for having me on. amna: you can watch more of our interview with mr. kennedy on our website, including questions

on immigration and abortion. geoff: while the presidential election is still a year away, former president and current republican frontrunner donald trump is already preparing for what he'd do if he returns to the white house. the washington post reports donald trump and his allies are drafting plans to potentially deploy the military against domestic protesters and use the department of justice to investigate and punish his critics. devlin barrett is one of the washington post reporters looking into this, and he joins us here in the studio. thanks for coming. you report that much of the planning for a second trump term has been outsourced to this group of right-wing think tanks dubbed project 2025. who is involved and what are they planning? devlin: it is dozens of groups, lending a certain number of folks to map out what a second

trump administration would look like, particularly from a legal perspective. what legal goals would you have for a second trump administration? a lot of what they are talking about is ways to consolidate control and power of the entire federal government within the white house, essentially reducing the independence of cabinet secretaries and increasing the ability of people around trump in his inner circle to control those agencies. geoff: people close to donald trump have said he says that in his second term he wants lawyers who are more loyal to him. what he means is he is looking for lawyers who will push the boundaries of the acceptable understanding of the law. your reporting goes beyond that to say he is looking to harness the power of the doj to punish his perceived enemies and critics. in what ways? devlin: he has talked privately about going after people who have criticized him and that's

not really a new behavior for donald trump. i think what's really telling about the people he tends to talk about now in terms of the ones he wants to punish by the justice department, they are his own former aides, people like bill barr, his former attorney, ty cobb, his former white house lawyer, john kelly, his former chief of staff. these are folks who once worked closely with him that he once had faith in and now he views them as having betrayed him and he wants the justice department to go after them. geoff: your team talked to john kelly and ty cobb. what did they have to say? devlin: they are very public critics of donald trump so this to them is of a piece with why he should not be the next president. one of the things they said, john kelly in particular made the argument that a second trump administration is not going to have people like john kelly because people like john kelly

would say no. the second administration is much more likely to have people who say yes to donald trump no matter what the ask. geoff: what would a second trump term look like compared to the first, now that donald trump knows how to utilize the levers of power available? >> one of the things that came out in our reporting is one of the lessons trump took from his first administration is he had too many people -- he often uses the expression federal society lawyers to refer to a type of conservative lawyer who would not go as far as he wanted. geoff: the federal society is not conservative enough for donald trump. devlin: right. almost more importantly, they would not do enough of what he wanted them to do. to your point earlier, so much of this conversation so far -- to be fair, this is an early-stage conversation -- but so much of those conversations are about how you get people to

do as close to everything as they can that the president wants them to do. geoff: to include invoking the insurrection act to put down protests on inauguration day if he is elected. devlin: the insurrection act became this fantasy scenario for a lot of trump supporters in 2020. what you are seeing in private conversations about project 2025 is a group of people talking about, can we invoke the insurrection act out of the gate to put down protests? that is very alarming to a different group of conservative lawyers who hear that and think that is not a great idea. geoff: how is any of this different than what donald trump would say at a rally? he talks about this all the time. is what's different that people are putting plans together?

devlin: he does talk in general terms at rallies about how he wants to get even, take control, and wants to quell any disagreement or dissent even within his own government, should he become elected. i think what's different is they are working on more specific concepts and actions, for example a host of executive orders, which is something he has always believed in and liked the idea of executive order, even if it is often more show than substance. you are seeing those conversations because what's going on is there is a growing realization among conservative lawyers that donald trump will almost certainly be the gop nominee. if that's going to be true, all these conservative activists and lawyers are making decisions about where they want to fit

into that picture if he becomes president. geoff: important reporting, great speaking with you. amna: we've brought you stories over the past several weeks on how schools are adapting to changing admissions policies. tonight we focus on a college that's thinking differently about who's admitted and their family's income level. special correspondent hari sreenivasan reports on a school in berea, kentucky, where tuition is free. it is for our series rethinking college. hari: these students are weaving, woodworking, and making brooms. it is part of berea college's labor program, something every student must participate in. >> so we're expected to be part of our labor program, working 10 hours a week. hari: the crafts are sold in local stores and online.

each student works throughout their four years at the college. >> every office on campus, every department on campus has student employment there. hari: brittany ash and collis robinson run the labor program. >> it's the work, it's the learning and it's the service and when you combine those things together you get the unique program that we have at berea. hari: students receive a small salary, which typically goes towards room and board, no fancy dorms here. here. so how's your football team do? >> we don't have a football team. hari: how about the stadium for your basketball players? >> we don't have a stadium. hari: that's president cheryl nixon. what they do have is free laptops for every incoming student and medical and dental care on campus, after a small initial fee. and most importantly, free tuition. cheryl nixon says while berea is unique, it should not be. >> i think that more innovative, creative thinking is what higher ed needs right now when people are really questioning what's the return on investment in higher ed? i think, again, berea, just

because of a very innovative founding vision, we've been working on this model for over 165 years and have come up with pieces that come together that allow us to say we can take students that can't afford college and we can fund it for them. hari: the roots of free tuition and the labor program go back to berea's inception. an abolitionist minister founded it in 1855 to give all people in the appalachian area opportunities, to educate male and female students, black-and-white, altogether. >> we are very lucky that we have a very -- i would call it a courageous, brave history behind us. pre-civil war, when kentucky was still a slave owning state, that emerged and was successful and also said we need to serve students in the region. hari: but in 1904, the school's integration was outlawed. >> we fought that battle all the way to the supreme court, and we lost. we had to remain segregated.

fortunately, when brown versus board of education was won, we were able to reintegrate and then become what we are today, which is an integrated institution like much of higher ed. hari: but higher ed costs money. berea is able to offer an education without burdening students, or their families, with the costs. >> our no tuition promise became our promise that you will have a ur year job on campus, receive an income that will then -- you can then use that to help defray your costs, so our students can graduate debt free. hari: are eligible for pell grants? >> around 95%. hari: in fact, berea topped the list of the recent new york times college access list, with the highest number of students receiving pell grants, which are federal grants earmarked for lower income students. is there a financial criteria before you even apply to say you

might be too rich to apply here? >> absolutely. and we turn students away every year because their family's financial picture is greater than what we would consider eligible to attend berea. hari: luke hodson is the associate vice president of admissions and a 2002 graduate. >> we see students every year who fall into our applicant pool and we introduce the financial eligibility requirement. they become highly disappointed because they saw this as a great opportunity and great things to pursue. but financially, we're not even going to be able to consider their application. hari: but while an applicant's family income may be low, the student's grade point average may not. >> from a financial standpoint, the average income of our student body is $32,000 a year. from an academic standpoint, most of our students on average will have around a 3.5 high school gpa. hari: hodson says they look for a candidate's grit. >> so grit is oftentimes a lot of the kind of academic readiness, the core about that

student, the ability to be successful in a rigorous academic setting that berea offers hari: what kind of degrees do you offer? >> when you think of a small private institution like berea categorized as a liberal arts institutio you make the assumptions, well, they are not going to offer professional degrees like in nursing or business or, you know, computer science, but we do. but on the flip of that, you've got your traditional liberal arts, your languages. hari: it also offers classes based on the region, like this one on health in appalachia. today's lesson, cancer in the area. >> set a timer for five minutes, talk to your group members. hari: tennessee native patience martin just graduated from berea and fulfilled her dream of going overseas. >> i studied abroad in costa rica in the summer of 2022. hari: she is the first person to graduate high school in her family and her horizons are wider now. >> i'm interested in public policy analysis. hari: if she'd had to pay tuition, she says grad school would have been unlikely.

>> i'm not sure what that would have looked like. it would have been loans on top of loans. hari: a critical component of berea's model is giving back to the area. although students do come from all over, 67 percent of students are from appalachia. >> we have students working out in the community, with some of the local schools, we have students working in nursing homes. the service piece is about serving the greater community, something bigger than you if you will. hari: while there might be an emphasis on berea honoring its ties to the region, cheryl nixon thinks the school can be an example for others around the country. >> i think that if higher ed could again be a bit courageous, a bit brave, it could take pieces of this model and replicate it. again, looking at how it spends its endowment and putting more of that towards student care and student support. hari: support that helps students get an education in music, the arts, or sciences, all without going into debt. for the pbs newshour, i am hari

sreenivasan in berea, kentucky. amna: that is the newshour for tonight. i am on nano laws. geoff: i am geoff bennett. thank you for spending part of your evening with us. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- >> pediatric surgeon, volunteer, topiary artist. a raymondjames financial advisor taylor's advice to help you live your life. life well planned. >> carnegie corporation of new york, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security, at carnegie.org. and with the ongoing support of these institutions.

this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.]

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