wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. now you won't miss a thing. this is the way. xfinity internet. made for streaming. ♪ amna: good evening. i'm amna nawaz. geoff: and i'm geoff bennett. on the “news hour” tonight, the leader of hezbollah says israel crossed a red line and vows retribution for the exploding pagers and walkie talkies that killed some of its members. amna: the teamsters labor union decides not to endorse a presidential candidate for the first time in decades.

the head of the union tells us why. geoff: and political and environmental concerns clash in papua new guinea, where the controversial practice of deep sea mining is moving forward, without the knowledge or oversight of some key government stakeholders. >> we don't have any offshore operations. >> allan, we've just been on a vessel in the bismarck sea that is pulling up the ocean floor. >> seriously? >> how do you feel about that? >> shocked. i had no idea. ♪ >> major funding for the "pbs news hour" has been provided by -- >> a law partner rediscovers her grandmother's artistry and creates a trust to keep the craft alive. a raymondjames financial advisor gets to know you, your passions, and the way you enrich your community. life well planned.

>> on an american cruise lines journey, along the legendary mississippi river, travelers explore civil war battlefields and historic riverside towns. aboard our fleet of american riverboats, you can experience local culture and cuisine, and discover the music and history of the mighty mississippi. american cruise lines, proud sponsor of "pbs news hour." ♪ >> carnegie corporation of new york, working to reduce political polarization through philanthropic support for education, democracy, and peace. more information at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions.

♪ this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. geoff: welcome to the “news hour.” the leader of lebanese hezbollah, labeled a terrorist organization by the u.s., told his followers today they would exact revenge on israel for two days of attacks that killed dozens and wounded thousands. amna: in beirut, pagers and walkie talkies exploded on tuesday and wednesday, targeting members of hezbollah, but also injuring others. the “news hour” is told that israeli officials told their u.s. counterparts they planted the explosives. and as nick schifrin tells us, tonight, are bracing for retaliation. and a warning, some images in this story are disturbing.

nick: today in beirut, hezbollah buried their fighters and vowed vengeance. and the hezbollah leader promised to continue attacking israel so long as israel continues attacking hamas in gaza. >> this will be confronted with a severe reckoning and just retribution in expected end and inspected ways. i will not talk about a time, forum, place, or date. nick: but as he spoke, israeli jets flew over downtown beirut. he admitted two days of unprecedented attacks on hezbollah walkie-talkies and pagers had dealt the terrorist group a serious blow and compromised its security. >> tuesday and wednesday were

heavy and bloody days for us. they were also a big test. the important thing is to not let the blow knock you down no matter how big and strong it is. nick: u.s. officials tell "pbs news hour" israel hopes that blow to hezbollah's communications network, convinces the group to pursue diplomacy. but there was no sign of that today. in israel, soldiers rushed their injured to the hospital after hezbollah attacks that killed sergeant tomer keren, and reserve major nael fwars. and israel's military struck more than 30 hezbollah sites with hundreds of rocket launchers, part of its shift away from gaza, said minister of defense yoav gallant. >> in the new phase of the war there are significant opportunities but also significant risks. hezbollah feels that it is being persecuted, and the sequence of military actions will continue. nick: defense officials say secretary of defense lloyd austin postponed his upcoming trip to israel, as the white

house once again urged restraint. >> we are concerned about the tension, and afraid and concerned about a potential escalation. nick: tensions in the occupied west bank continue to calate as today israel raided the northern town of qabatiya, where smoke billowed from residential buildings and a school was surrounded. palestinian media reported three palestinians were killed and a body was seen lying on the roof of one building. another video shows israeli soldiers dragging, kicking, and pushing two bodies off a rooftop. the israeli military said the raids targeted iranian-backed militants. for the "pbs news hour," i'm nick schifrin. ♪ geoff: turning now to the you presidential election, both were on the real candidates are wiring of on the trail tonight, firing up their whenever supporters, with vice

president harris in michigan and former president trump in washington. amna: but we start our coverage with remarks from the current president earlier today. while touting his economic record in washington today, president biden also gave a brief but clear statement of support for vice president harris. >> there's not a single damn job a woman can't do the man can do, including being president of the united states of america. amna: and warned of the economic ramifications of a second trump presidency. >> it's clear, especially under my predecessor, that trickle down economics failed. and he's promising again trickle down economics. but it will fail again. >> good morning, everybody. amna: meanwhile on capitol hill, senate democrats were fired up against the former president. >> this is the trump plan. amna: several members gathered to rail against the project 2025 agenda, crafted by trump allies. >> it would raise taxes, hurt american workers, compromise border security, threaten our democracy, and make america less safe.

amna: the former president has distanced himself from the conservative initiative. >> a very big hello to new york. amna: last night, trump addressed a packed arena on long island. >> hasn't been done in many decades. it hasn't been done for a long time, but we are going to win we are going with new york. amna: new york is a democratic stronghold in presidential elections and is not seen as within trump's reach. but he attempted to appeal to long island's suburban swing voters with fiery messaging on crime and immigration. >> with crime at record levels, with terrorists and criminals pouring in, and with inflation eating your hearts out, vote for donald trump. what the hell do you have to lose? what do you have to lose? amna: that included repeating lies about haitian immigrants in springfield, ohio. >> we're getting them out of our country. they came in illegally.

they're destroying our country. we're getting them out. they're going to be brought back to the country from which they came. amna: according to the city of springfield, its haitian residents entered the country legally, and are filling jobs in industries that need workers. tonight, the former president is in washington, addressing a summit for israeli-americans. meanwhile, vice president harris is campaigning with oprah winfrey in battleground michigan. it's the home of the national uncommitted movement, which mobilized hundreds of thousands of uncommitted votes during the democratic primaries to protest joe biden over his policies in gaza. today, uncommitted leaders announced the movement will not be endorsing harris. >> vice president harris' unwillingness to shift on unconditional weapons policy, or to even make a clear statement in support of upholding existing u.s. and international human rights law, has made it impossible for us to endorse

her. amna: the group also urged its members not to vote for trump. it remains unclear what effect the non-endorsement will have come november. ♪ when ethical and here are the latest headlines. president biden said today he expect the federal served to cut interest rates even further. that's as the state of the economy, he argued, has reached a turning point during his presidency. in a speech today, the president said he considers the fed's cut a vindication of his economic policies, but added that there's more work to be done. >> so let's be clear, the fed lowerng interest rates isn't a declaration of victory. it's a declaration of progress. it's a signal we've entered a new phase in our economy and our recovery.

vanessa: a mixed batch of new economic data came out today, positive news for the job market, but troubles in housing. the number of americans filing for initial unemployment benefits fell by 12,000 last week compared to the week before. overall, new claims hit a four-month low, which signals ongoing strength in the labor market. separately, existing home sales dropped 2.5% in august to their lowest level in 10 months, as home prices remain near record highs. the republican nominee for governor of north carolina says he won't quit the race, despite a shocking report about comments he allegedly made on a pornographic website more than a decade ago. according to cnn, mark robinson called himself a black nazi on a message board in 2010. he also voiced support for bringing back slavery, and made comments that were, quote, gratuitously sexual and lewd in

nature. before cnn's publication, robinson posted a video to social media saying the words were not his, and that he is, in his words, is staying in this race. robinson is north carolina's lieutenant governor, a state fiercely contested by both presidential candidates. the death toll from the devastating flooding across central europe has risen to 24. heavy rains and flooding have now moved to northern italy. more than 1000 people were evacuated. trains were suspended and schools were shut across the affected areas. italian officials urged residents to be patient during the recovery. >> let's hope the bad weather will mitigate in the next few hours, but we can't have big expectations because it's such a fragile and vulnerable territory. it is always exposed to natural attacks. manasseh: one man was given 40

months in prison for wearing a shirt with the protest slogan and another got 10 months providing pro-independence messages on bus seats. the offending t-shirt had direct links to the anti-government protests that swept the city in 2019. the new law took effect in march and imposes harsher punishments for seditious acts. critics say it limits freedom of expression. finally tonight, a historic day in major-league baseball, the los angeles dodger slugger show have the first player ever to hit 50 home runs and steal 50 bases in a single season. playing against the miami marlins, he stole two bases and hit two home runs to reach the milestone. he then topped it, crushing a three run homer in the ninth inning, ending the game with 51 stolen bases in 51 home runs. the dodgers won 20-4. still to come, why presidential

candidates proposals to stop taxing tips might not benefit workers as much as it may seem. the politics behind the controversial effort to mine the ocean floor. and attorney and activist maya wiley discusses her long career in a new memoir. >> this is the “pbs news hour” from the david m rubenstein studio at weta in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. amna: with the race for the white house as close as ever, the election could come down to a small number of undecided voters. but in a hyper partisan political climate, who are those people that are still unsure? npr's domenico montanaro spoke to a handful of undecided voters who have responded to our regular pbs news-npr-marist poll. he's here to walk us through what they're thinking. good to see you.

when we talk about undecideds, how big is this block and how are they still undecided? domenico: it is a tiny slice of people. we are talking in recent years anywhere from 6% to are generally persuadable to maybe the low teens. in this election given how people know so much about donald trump in, particular, and when president biden was running it was a really small number of people. it was like 3% of people who were undecided. when harris got in, more people moved to be undecided but it was still only about 9% of people. immediately after that, as soon as it started to see more about kamala harris, people started to make up their minds. amna: in these big election events, postdebate, where are they now and what should we take away? domenico: in the poll we had 46 people over the last several months who said they were undecided. and what i did was reach out to 10 of them and we had five men and five women.

after the debate, this was all postdebate, four said they were now leaning towards kamala harris or voting for her, two said they were leading towards trump, four are undecided still, and three very well might not vote at all. what i found really interesting about this, the clear takeaway is two things. one, the debate was really important for kamala harris, because a lot of people just didn't know enough about her, maybe needed some reassurance. the other big take away is the gender divide is very real. all four of the people who said they would now be voting for harris are women. amna: you spoke to a woman in arkansas who spoke to this. tell us about her. domenico: yeah. she was very interesting. she said i feel that trump's disrespect for women is not befitting a president. he is not someone i want my girls to look up to as a role model. she is 45 years old, a mother of five. she did not vote in the 2020 election.

she did vote for donald trump in 2016. this time she said she has made up her mind to vote for kamala harris because of how trump talks about women. she said, i really want my girls to see that this is a right and she feels strongly about the fact this is a right she can exercise. amna: what are some of the issues you think will impact the undecided votes? domenico: five of the people i talked to are just not going to vote for kamala harris, but they have real hangups about donald trump. that is why i think some of them a not vote at all. one person i talked to from wisconsin, 30 years old, he mentioned, as did a lot of these folks, about prices and immigration. he talked mostly about prices. he said i have a probably middle-class income for my family, and it doesn't seem it is getting any easier, even as we have advanced in our careers. 30 years old, coming-of-age, trying to buy groceries, trying

to get a mortgage, we know interest rates have been higher, and it is a real concern for people like brady. i heard from another person in miami who said he also just feels like it's too much. he voted for obama twice, said he worked phones for him. but this time around he said he is not sure what he is going to do. i think when you look at this, and i don't know how much of it is gender, that is something to talk about, but i think it is a little bit about incumbency. in 2008 obviously the economy was not doing well, george w. bush was the president, a republican, so these guys went with a democrat, obama. this time you have joe biden in the white house. even though kamala harris has may the case for being the change agent, she is still tied to the administration . amna: what about abortion rights? domenico: one thing we have seen in our polling is abortion rights and kamala harris being trusted on abortion rights is by a wider margin than any of the other issues donald trump has advantages on.

this is a key issue for multiple women i talked to, including one from illinois. she said, i watched her, i listened to her. i am a woman and women's needs are first even before party. she put the blame squarely on donald trump for the overturning of roe v. wade. i talked to another voter in idaho, a woman who said a lot of her family are maga, but she has never voted for donald trump. she is very much a never trump republican, never bought what trump was trying to sell, even though she is a republican. another republican illinois said she was hoping nikki haley would run. she was -- she did not feel like kamala harris answered all the questions in the debate she feels she is much more credible than joe biden. she is a retired doctor, she felt like joe biden could not handle the job anymore. kamala harris is a litigator, she makes the case, so she thinks she could do the job.

amna: fascinating look at a small, potentially significant slice of the electorate. npr's domenico montanaro, always good to see you. ♪ geoff: one of the nation's largest unions, the international brotherhood of teamsters, says it won't make an endorsement in the 2024 presidential election, choosing not to throw the union's support behind either vice president kamala harris or former president donald trump. it's the first time the union has skipped an endorsement in a presidential race since 1996, having supported the democratic nominee in each election since. we're joined now by teamsters general president sean o'brien. thank you for coming in. we appreciate it. you said one of the reasons why the teamsters are withholding an endorsement is because neither candidate was able to make serious commitments to your union. there are democrats who will look at what the biden/harris

administration has already done, including directing a $36 billion bailout to rescue union pension plans, teamsters pension plans from insolvency, and wonder, what more of a commitment do you need? sean: well, listen, that's a great point. president biden and his administration did fix 300 pension funds that were critically declining and on the verge of insolvency, but there's a there's a backstory to all this. in 1980 in the teamsters union, we had 400,000 teams of truck drivers in the freight division. democratic legislation led by senator ted kennedy and signed off by joe biden in 1980, passed trucking deregulation and we lost 400,000 jobs. companies went bankrupt. and that caused a huge strain on pension funds that just each year kept getting worse and worse. and yes, they fixed the problem, but that problem was created by the people that fixed the problem and they don't want to recognize that. and i appreciate it. my members appreciate the pension being fixed.

but i always tell people, i broke my mother's window playing street hockey in 1980 and for 40 years she's been asking me to fix it. i finally fix it. should i look for praise for fixing a problem that i helped create? geoff: you were invited to address the republican national convention back in july, the first time a teamsters leader had ever done so. why are you withholding an endorsement from president trump? sean: i went to the rnc, not with an agenda rather than to or an endorsement agenda. i went there to talk about american workers, talk about our struggles, talk about with both parties need to do to win back the support of american workers and how valuable american workers are. speaking at the republican national convention, we asked both the democratic national convention in the rnc at the same time and we only heard back from the rnc. i would have gave the same speech at the dnc had we were given the opportunity. geoff: you were pretty critical of donald trump after that interview he did with tesla ceo elon musk. where mr. trump advocated for firing striking employees. was that a breaking point for you?

sean: it certainly didn't help. look, i will never, ever, allow people to fire workers for exercise their right to strike or organize and i will call balls and strikes like i've done all along. and, you know, former president trump was out of line with his comments and i expressed my feelings to him, but it resonated with our members and that was one of the reasons that the international couldn't endorse president trump either amongst other reasons. we didn't get a commitment on vetoing national right to work and conversely with kamala harris, we didn't get a commitment on protecting our members' right to strike on a railway labor act, so there are a lot of mitigating factors on why we didn't endorse nationally. and look, by the polling alone that we did, our members sent a clear message to the democratic party and the republican party, you know, we are getting attacked from the far left because we didn't make an endorsement and the far right is not happy that we are working with some republicans to try and

get some things done. so this is an opportunity for both parties, democrats to reestablish their commitment and look back and say something must be broken, instead of looking to blame the leaders or the members, they should look in the mirror and say how do we fix this? we were the working people party at one time. and it's an opportunity for republicans who claim they want to be the working people's party, it's an opportunity for them to prove it, support a version of the proact, support bankruptcy reform, support issues that actually affect working people. our system is broken and needs to be fixed. the name-calling, the finger-pointing, it's got to end. geoff: following the national teamsters non-endorsement, local teamsters unions, as you well know, in the key battleground states of michigan, nevada, wisconsin, announced their support for harris. and there are nearly a dozen teamsters locals and the teamsters national black caucus all supporting harris. do you risk looking out of step with the union rank and file?

sean: no, i definitely don't look out of step with. because remember we represent democrats, republicans, and independents and clearly half of our membership are democrats and half are republicans and some are independents as well. so we've got to represent everybody equally. the local unions, they're autonomous. we're not a top-down organization. we're a bottom-up organization. our members, or the leaders, have the ability to put boots on the ground and support the candidates that they want to support. the international, we just couldn't make that decision, and we have a very, very qualified general executive board of leaders around the country, and the non-endorsement was overwhelmingly supported. geoff: donald trump is claiming this as a win. here's what he told supporters at a rally last night in new york. >> earlier today i was honored to receive the endorsement of the rank and file membership of the teamsters. i love the teamsters. this hasn't happened in so many decades.

we won the overwhelming majority of the local chapters and the members, and as a result the national organization has refused to endorse the democrat candidate for the first time in many, many decades. geoff: is what he said is that accurate? sean: no. we released polling data that showed he was ahead in the poll. it was the members who took the time to poll. it wasn't an official endorsement of the membership. but the polling would suggest that people are favorable in voting for trump just as well as they may be favorable for voting for vice president harris. geoff: the harris campaign has picked up the endorsement and the support of other unions, the united auto workers, the afl-cio, united steel workers. what do you say to those who make the case that the teamsters and not endorsing at all or trying to play both sides, trying to have it both ways? sean: we're certainly not trying

to play both sides. look, those unions have their own policies, procedures, most of those unions you mentioned the flcio, they jumped out in january for president biden, some little bit later in march. we have a system we did something that we've never done before. we did a straw poll. we did a qr polling of 1.3 of our million members. and then we also did research based polling and the straw poll narrowly presidentiden won and the other two polls that were participated in by our rank and file members, showed that former president trump was leading in those polls significantly. geoff: teamsters general president sean o'brien, appreciate your time this evening. sean: appreciate you. ♪ amna: tax cuts and credits have been a popular theme during this campaign. former president trump's latest

proposal is ending a cap on the federal deductions taxpayers get for paying state and local taxes, a cap he implemented as president and a change that could cost more than a trillion dollars over a decade. both candidates have also proposed several tax breaks, and have not always explained how to pay for them. that's true of one idea trump and vice president harris support, no taxes on tips. economics correspondent paul solman looked at what's behind the proposal, and some concerns around it. paul: prince chick-a-tah, bartender at busboys and poets in washington, d.c., 80% to 90% of his income from tips. suppose they were no longer taxed? tips. >> that would be great. paul: no taxes on tips. it was a proposal first floated by former president trump in june. >> when i get to office we are going to not charge taxes on tips.

paul: vice president harris adopted the idea in august. >> when i am president, we will continue our fight for working families of america, including to raise the minimum wage and eliminate taxes on tips for service and hospitality workers. paul: on capitol hill, don't-tax-tips bills were introduced this summer, with bipartisan support. what's the average tip you get? >> anywhere between $15 and $20. paul: for most americans, a standard tip at a sit-down restaurant is 15% or less. who are the big tippers? >> families. parents who have kids, they tip really well. >> most people tip me 20%, which is awesome. paul: server jordan cole-sanni says tips account for 80% or more of her income. what would your reaction be if tips were no longer taxed? >> i think every penny counts. so i think making more and, you know, not being taxed and being

able to keep all the money that you work really, really hard for, is always a positive. paul: and what do the tippers themselves think? >> them being able to keep that amount and not having to pay later is something that i do stand with. paul: will that change your behavior? >> it won't. i'm happy to hear that they'll take more of it. paul: so, a policy with bipartisan support that benefits the low-wage worker. what's not to like? as i discovered, plenty. >> the issue is that there aren't a lot of tipped workers in america. paul: according to economist ernie tedeschi, tipped work accounts for just 2.5% of all employment. >> even among low wage workers, it's only 5% of the lowest wage workers that are tipped workers. paul: and more than a third of the lowest wage workers don't have to pay any federal income tax, says policy analyst erica york. >> these are workers who already have a very low income tax burden. if they owe taxes at all. they may not make enough to owe taxes.

if they do, they face the lowest marginal tax rates. they qualify for tax credits that can offset some or all of that tax liability. so, providing an exemption like this may not even be the best form of relief. paul: but whereas the very lowest wage workers wouldn't benefit much or at all, says tedeschi, employers would. >> it shifts the burden of compensation away from the wage side, which the employers have to pay, to the tip side, which the customer pays. paul: so if tips were tax-free. >> they're going to be a lot more workers that want tipped jobs. and so that's going to give employers the comfort and the ability to pay those workers a little bit less in wages than they otherwise would. paul: as it is, post-pandemic, there's been a proliferation of electronic prompts for tips. >> every single coffee shop i go to,

every single fast food place i go to, asks for tips. >> we're being asked now to tip for stuff that we never used to tip on before. >> it's like a guilt factor where it's kind of like, you know, it's you just go ahead and like, i might do that at the moment. paul: so you are susceptible to the guilt? >> yes, the guilt does get the best of me. paul: you too? >> yeah, i'd say it's 100% guilt driven. paul: phil di ruggiero, for one, may be among those developing tip fatigue. >> a little bit tired of getting that at every point of sale. paul: and since the proposal incentivizes tipping. >> i think that's going to become more pervasive if this becomes law. paul: which could lead to unintended changes in consumer behavior. >> i think that there is a default assumption that consumers are just going to pay tips at the same rate that they've always been paying. i don't know that that's going to be the case. i think at some point consumers might get exhausted. you're essentially asking customers to pay higher prices when they've already gone through a period of four years

where they've rebelled against higher prices. paul: and as steve buscemi's mr. pink made clear in "reservoir dogs." tips are discretionary. >> i don't tip. >> you don't tip? >> no. i don't believe in it. >> you don't believe in it? >> if they really put forth the effort, i'll give them something extra. but this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. paul: and how about this unintended consequence? >> you could see a lot of income re-characterized to take advantage of the tax-free treatment. it's hard to predict how many industries, how many occupations could find a way to involve tipping in the transaction. >> let's say i'm a sales person that gets a commission, or let's say that i'm somebody on wall street that gets a year end bonus. so i reclassify my commission as a tip, or i reclassify my year end bonus as a tip. the employer helps out because they'll get a benefit. and so everybody wins. paul: except the taxpayer. >> except for the taxpayer and the federal government. that's the sort of creative tax accounting that's on the line here if we don't have good

guardrails. i am not a lawyer, i am not an accountant. now imagine what an actual smart accountant and an actual smart lawyer who's paid to do this 24 seven would come up with. paul: now, the harris campaign says she would push for an income limit and strict requirements to prevent such behavior. but here's yet another problem. even when it comes to the low-income workers the plan is supposed to help. >> there's not really an economic rationale to, say, a waitress who's making $30,000 a year deserves a tax cut while a cashier at a convenience store who's also making $30,000 a year doesn't deserve a tax cut. paul: new york restaurateur amanda koen eliminated tips 10 years ago. instead, she charges a bit more so she can pay all her employees a higher wage. more fair, she thinks. >> the prettier younger you are, the younger you are, the more likely you are to make higher tips. and, you know, the older you are and the darker your skin, you're less likely to make as much. paul: but koen may have to drop her no tip policy if tips are

going to be untaxed. >> how could i look at my servers and, say, you know, you could make a lot more money working at a tip restaurant because half of your wages won't be taxed anymore. i just don't think i could find anybody to work for me. paul: so, with all these caveats, why has the proposal been so readily embraced? >> no tax on tips. it sounds like a good way to provide a tax cut to workers who work hard, who earn income, who need a break. i think that's why it's catching on politically. >> this proposal is extremely popular in nevada, which is heavily dominated by leisure and hospitality and gaming industry, as you might imagine, where tips are extremely important. paul: and nevada is a swing state. >> and nevada is a swing state. exactly. paul: in other words, political business as usual in soundbite america. for the “pbs news hour,” paul solman. ♪

geoff: governments often struggle to move quickly when it comes to regulating new industries or products. one area where international organizations and governments around the world have failed to agree on regulation is far out at sea, beyond national maritime boundaries. that's meant the kind of deep sea mining that we've examined this week is only legally permitted inside a country's territorial waters, and the only country on earth to allow it so far is papua new guinea. in its waters of the bismarck sea, off the island of new ireland. for the third and final part in this series, videographer ed kiernan and special correspondent willem marx show us how difficult it is for this impoverished pacific nation to monitor deep sea mining activities, even those that are occurring close to it shores. willem: this summer, not far from the stunning coastline of new ireland province in the

pacific nation of papua new guinea, the mv coco was very likely the only ship anywhere on the world's oceans to be engaged in the deeply controversial practice of deep sea mining. twice a day for several weeks, it sent this giant claw a mile beneath the surface of the bismarck sea to help its crew haul up around 180 tons of copper-rich rock, while also stockpiling many times more than that on the nearby sea bed. this was an industrial-scale trial run to see if an even larger operation like this could, one day, continue long term, by proving itself profitable enough for investors, and sufficiently safe for the ocean environment. the coco sailed under charter for a company called deep sea mining finance, or dsmf, in partnership with another business, magellan, where james holt helped oversee this work. >> we're underneath the jurisdiction of papua new guinea, we're in national waters, so they have full

responsibility for whether they give us permits or not. willem: papua new guinea, often known as png, is among a tiny group of countries that's theoretically approved this kind of underwater extraction in its maritime territory. it's not yet permitted in the pacific's international waters, where the coco and team from magellan were conducting environmental surveys last november for another deep sea mining firm, called the metals company. when protesters from greenpeace suddenly, unexpectedly appeared on the horizon. the group's activists had kayaked right up close to the coco. before some, harnessed in climbing equipment, quickly clambered aboard. louisa casson took part in that protest and leads greenpeace's campaign against deep sea mining. >> what we do need is a legally binding moratorium that can stop this industry from causing harm to the oceans, which is what, you know, an overwhelming amount of research is showing.

you're directly removing parts of habitat, including parts that life centers around. so you know, it is inevitably destructive. and i think that is the core problem with deep sea mining, that no amount of pr spin or political lobbying from the industry can get over. willem: james holt was also on board the coco during the protest working and says he ultimately welcomes such scrutiny. >> it's good that we've got people out there monitoring what we're doing, and that companies just can't go off and just start grabbing on the seabed without permissions. so, greenpeace have got an important part to play. but i just hope that the evidence shows that we've got such a high copper content, and that if the world has got to have more copper, and that getting it from the seabed is the way forward. willem: papua new guinea was the first country on earth to hand out a full subsea mining license back in 2011, to a canadian business called nautilus minerals. inside the country's parliament, some lawmakers soon began to

raise concerns, including northern province governor, gary juffa. >> i was totally against it. and i was mortified. i'm not a scientist, i'm not an expert on mining or seabed mining, or what goes on in the oceans. but i did some research and i found out that this activity had not been carried out anywhere else in the world yet. so we were going to be a test case, so to speak. this didn't sit well with me. willem: but in countless ministerial meetings and powerpoint presentations, nautilus made many promises. >> the project has criteria it has to perform too. willem: that it would create an innovative industry that could safely generate huge returns using specially constructed machinery. png's government poured tens of millions of dollars into the idea, and the evidence of that vast, vanished investment is still visible, if you know where to look. more than a decade after those bold promises of an entirely new type of mining deep beneath the ocean surface, the machines at the heart of that vision that

promised to strip mine the ocean floor are now rusting here in an empty lot on the edge of the capital city, port moresby. deep sea mining finance took over nautilus and its mining permit in 2019, then eventually partnered with magellan's founder to restart the venture. dsmf's listed representatives in 2019 included an australian who pled guilty to insider trading. and a swiss man disqualified as a director on the isle of man amid money-laundering contraventions. the pair in turn represented the company's two largest shareholders, an omani businessman called mohammed al-barwani, and russian billionaire alisher usmanov, now under sanction in the u.s., canada, and many other countries. natural resources in png have often benefitted overseas businesses. but sometimes failed to support local communities. allan bird is an opposition politician who says this must change. a former mining executive, he was in high demand at a recent mining industry conference held in port moresby.

in a speech, he advocated for more overseas investment in his country. afterwards, we asked him about the permitting process for mining out at sea. what about offshore? >> we don't have any offshore operations. willem: allan, we've just been on a vessel in the bismarck sea that is pulling up the ocean floor. >> seriously? willem: how do you feel about that? >> shocked. i had no idea. i thought the whole thing was mothballed. willem: you're a senior governor in this country. >> yeah. willem: and the fact that you don't know about that. how does that make you feel? >> deeply worried. we're supposed to have mechanisms that ensure that such things go through a proper vetting and verification process, right? i mean, we are supposed to be a credible country. willem: png's licensing process involves several government agencies and ministries. but few operate that

transparently, as we learned when we sought out more information. there's currently no minister for mining here in papua new guinea. in fact, the man responsible for the industry right now is the prime minister. when we asked him for an interview to discuss deep sea mining, his office insisted there was an official moratorium on the practice, and he therefore refused to discuss it. >> when they're turning a blind eye, then it becomes an issue. and this has been a common, you know, situation here in papua new guinea. willem: peter bosip founded a public interest law firm, celcor, that works on behalf of local communities confronting commercial interests here. >> they're seeing us as a stumbling block, we will stop this mining from going out. so that's why they want to keep these things away from us. willem: it sounds like you're telling me that the government here chooses the economy over the environment. >> that's exactly what is happening. willem: bosip's team has previously triumphed in cases against large foreign logging companies, whose projects tear

up forests along the coastline and interiors of several provinces, including new ireland. for 12 years, his organization has been demanding to see the environmental assessments of nautilus' deep sea mining proposals. these should be public, but last year government agencies refused to release them, despite a court order. the managing director of one agency, the national environmental regulator, cepa, said he would meet with us, but soon stopped answering our calls. the mineral resources authority, or mra, also failed to disclose information related to nautilu'' license. how long are you there for, a few more days? we eventually reached the mra's managing director, jerry garry, who was away from the capital. he told us his team was responsible for monitoring all deep sea mining activities. >> every time, when they have their vessel in the country, we do have state officers who are on board to monitor what what they're doing. willem: so who is the state

officer on board right now? because we were on the vessel a few days ago. we did not see anyone. >> we believe it would have been people, officers from cepa and mra. but if they are underway, in country, and if they have not informed us, that would be a concern. willem: so right now, do you know that the vessel is in the country? >> i am not aware of the vessel in the country. willem: and yet you're managing director of the mineral resources authority? >> you're right. i will deal with the problem now that you told me. willem: magellan insists they had government approval for their work, and after our interview garry issued a statement about seabed mining to local media. we now have the resources and the technologies to safely carry out exploration and also mining. i understand the concerns, but every exploration and mining license goes through a very stringent process. environmental campaigners including jonathan mesulam, a former teacher who lives on new

ireland, dispute this. >> there is no law in png, there is no regulatory framework on seabed mining. what they're using is on onshore, but we don't have any offshore mining, that's specifically for seabed mining. willem: fisheries could remain a sustainable resource for centuries to come. mesulam worries that any deep sea mining effort will eventually come to an end, yet could have lasting consequences for local coastal communities. and given the lack of relevant legislation, there could be risks for the companies involved too, warns allan bird. >> don't do it until you have a legal framework around which you operate. that's the responsible thing to do. and not just for papua new guinea, but anywhere in the world. willem: magellan and dsmf say they'll wait for a thorough analysis of the rocks brought on board before making their next move. but even if a high copper concentration could make this kind of mining financially worthwhile, many will continue to question whether that could ever justify an uncertain

outcome for life in, and around, the ocean. for the “pbs “news hour,” i'm willem marx in port moresby, papua new guinea. geoff: in case you missed them, you can watch all of willem marx's pieces about deep sea mining on our website, pbs.org/newshour. ♪ civil rights attorney maya wiley grew up in a household that prioritized activism. her parents' influence set her on a path to a lifetime of advocacy work, and yet sometimes left her wondering how best to fulfill the family legacy on her own terms. her memoir, published this week, is called, "remember, you are a wiley." we recently sat down to talk about it. maya wiley, welcome to the "news hour." so much of this book is an

untangling of your parents' influence. your father was a prominent social activist, your mother was an academic and civil rights activist in her own right. how did their activism shape your life and shape your values? maya: they shaped me so profoundly that it felt so important to write this book. and what i mean by that is that when you are growing up with parents, my father died when i was young, when i was nine years old -- you know they are impacting you, but they also spent a lot of time making sure we could be who we wanted to be, and not insisting that we be who they were. and i realized that what they really did was modeled what it meant to rise to the occasion of the time you are in. to recognize that to those who have been given much, much is expected. that was a clear value, principle in my household going

up. and that the expectation was that you would do it. you would step up in any way that you could. and for me, watching their activism, it was both at times painful because i wanted or needed them, but also it made me incredibly proud. geoff: theirs was an interracial marriage. you write about your parents, there was no cultural difference between them. they were both raised in similar strict christian traditions. your father's dark skin was an incidental problem for your father, not an instrumental one. -- not a fundamental one. how did they break free from the bonds of cultural expectations and racism, frankly, of the 1960's and build a life together? maya: that was such a powerful part of what shaped me. they were both, in their separate ways, growing up differently. my father in new york, my mother in west texas and a pretty racist southern baptist town.

they found their own paths to their voice and to their identities in a racist society. on very different paths, but they ended up in the same place. i think it is that fact, what shaped them that made them so comfortable with who they were despite how much the world was trying to make the penalties too for them to be who they were, was an important life lesson for me. i realized just how much of it had to do with a refusal to go with the flow, if the flow was wrong, if it was unjust. they really, really, really challenged any injustice they found, whether it was in their personal lives or in the lives of others. and that was a very high bar that they set for me. geoff: i imagine that was i particularly important for you because you write about how you were this mixed race kid growing up in a black neighborhood in d.c. who was sometimes bullied for having a white mother. you and yet years later, you are

the the only the only black lawyer out of 50 at the u.s. attorney's office when you worked there as a young woman. maya: when i went to the u.s. attorney's office, i already knew that we had not yet arrived at that mountaintop that martin luther king talked about. but i was certainly challenged certainly in a way i had not and you before -- i had not been before. i was so fortunate to grow up and away right had not experienced anyone actually questioning my qualification. some in college for sure, and in i was in college law school, sure. but professionally, that was a new low. but again, my parents had been through so much worse, had taken on an been challenged by so much on worse. as i just remember thinking, well, as long as i can stay true to who i am and show them, show when i shot them what i am made

of, and show them that i'm going to be a lawyer. that when i leave this office, they are going to be sad to see me go. part of that was remembering, i am a wiley. geoff: a question about activism, which is such an ever present theme in this book. activism comes in so many forms. public protests, legal and political advocacy, community organizing. you ran to be the mayor of new york city in 2021. so i had the question, which approach do you think is more effective, trying to affect change from the inside, from the seat of power, or from the our outside? you maya: i love that question and i'm so grateful you asked. having been able to be on all sides of those, i would tell you this. it is every single one of them. there is simply not one thing that must happen. you need the activism, you need the direct action of protest, of people who put their feet in the street to peacefully demand change and have those demands be heard. but you also have to have people who are willing to vindicate the

her wrongs in court. you have to have the judges who understand what need to be vindicated. as and you need the elected leaders who understand the power of the pen, who will listen to those in communities, those who are protesting, and say let's figure out the actual solutions to the problems we are raising. geoff: the book's title comes from a family mantra of yours. what has that meant to you over bob why the course of your life? maya: it has been a challenge. you it has been a challenge to understand what it means to be a wiley. that sense of both pride but also responsibility. part of what she meant is, those black kids are going to be out ways in these wide streets. you need to show them who we are. you need to be responsible to what that means. and trying to figure that out, my parents kind of created their

own definition of what it meant you to be a wiley that i needed to very live up to. i am very proud to be george and aretha wiley's daughter. and every day i wonder, am i rising to the challenge they laid before me by, not telling me what to do, but by showing me through their own example what it really means to be a wiley? something i've struggled with my whole life, but it has been worth every ounce of that struggle. geoff: the new memoir, "remember, you are a wiley." maya wiley, thank you so much why will for being with us. always a pleasure to see you. maya: thank you. the pleasure is mine. ♪ geoff: and there is a lot more one on online. we hear from first-time voters in michigan about what voting in this year's election means to them.

that's at pbs.org/newshour. amna: and that is the “news hour” for tonight. i'm amna nawaz. geoff: and i'm geoff bennett. for all of us here at the "news hour," thanks for spending part of your evening with us. >> major funding for the "pbs news hour" has been provided by. ♪ >> moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf. the engine that connects us. >> as someone coming out of college it can be very nerve-racking. here, i feel like it is so welcoming and such an inclusive place to work. you just feel like you are valued.

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critics this is pbs news hour west from the david m rubenstein studio at weta in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university.

wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. now you won't miss a thing. this is the way. xfinity internet. made for streaming. from kqed and the san francisco chronicle this is the 2024san francisco mayoral debate. in the first mayoral election since the pandemic san francisco is at a crossroads. the next mayor will face many challenges, homelessness, drug overdoses, blic safety and the high cost of living in the