♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ announcer: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... woman: two retiring executives turn their focus to greyhounds, giving these former race dogs a real chance to win. a raymond james financial advisor gets to know you, your purpose, and the way you give back. life well planned.

announcer: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation, pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. announcer: and now, "bbc news" hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc >> let me be clear. russia will not prevail in this war. russia will not prevail. ukraine will prevail. we will stand by ukraine every step of the way. >> president zelenskyy says he wants to end the war through negotiations. the only way you will get russia to the table is to hit them harder than we are today. >> quite a lot of what president

zelenskyy and ukrainians are doing is trying to trump proof america's response at least for the next few months. >> the partisan divide is deep when it comes to ukraine. but between a joe biden and kamala harris president zelenskyy will get assurances for further support. he is meeting with the vice president at this hour. they are due to speak before the meeting. guiding us through the issues we are joined by the former prime minister of ukrae to get his thoughts on the victory plan that president zelenskyy is presenting. good evening. welcome to the program. volodymyr zelenskyy is in washington it is our to sell his vision of ukrainian victory. his visit comes at a crucial point with ukraine very much on the defensive.

despite a bold incursion into russia's kursk territory earlier in the summer the russian troops have made significant inroads in eastern ukraine as they turn forward mile by mile. the first stop today wasn't the u.s. congress were president zelenskyy met with leaders of both parties. he is being forced to navigate an extremely complex political landscape. the speaker of the house, mike johnson, wrote to him only yesterday demanding he sack's ambassador to the united states. it's an important swing state in these upcoming elections. as for the victory plan, the details of that are closely guarded. but it was presented just a few hours ago to president biden at the white house. biden has been a staunch but

cautious ally. today he announced another surge . >> the $2.4 billion package of the security assistance. i have a directed the pentagon to allocate all the remaining security assistance funding that has been appropriated to ukraine period by the end of this, my term january 20. this will strengthen ukraine's position position in future negotiations. we look ahead to help ukraine succeed long-term. as we said at the washington summit we have to support ukraine its path to membership to both the eu and nato and continue to make reforms to counter corruption and strengthen democracy. >> joe biden speaking in the last hour at the white house. that's been in the former prime minister of ukraine. welcome to the program.

the document that has been presented today at the white house is called the victory plan. of course, anybody watching a reporting from the front line one o things are extremely difficult at the moment. what is in the document that would change that reality? >> i am not sure i can share with you any specific issues from the document. but i am sure that this is a victory plan for the entire democratic society, the entire free world. we are on the same side of the aisle, in the same boat. i believe ukraine's victory's western victory. i believe ukraine's victory is the victory of the entire free world and western world. my guess is if one believes that it will be some kind of silver bullet unfolded in this plan, i'm not sure about that. but what am i sure about? that there is an action plan of

how to prevail in the war. what does ukraine need? ukraine it needs what president biden just mentioned read ukraine needs to get support in the long -- just mentioned. ukraine it needs to get support in the long run and i am inspired at the president biden mentioned they key pillar of ukraine's survival, nato membership. all of the rest is a set of tools. they aren't new tools and they aren't out-of-the-box ideas. how to make ukraine stronger on the battlefield. that is what president biden mentioned too. >> you say you cannot discuss sensitive parts of the document. the bit we do know in there is future nato membership. that is politically divisive now in the u.s.. on the republican side you have jd vance pushing his version of a peace plan, a demarcation line and ukraine's neutrality. why wouldn't that work in your view? >> it has nothing to do with the peace plan.

in case ukraine is neutral, this is how to take oveukraine by war criminal vladimir putin. ukraine was neutral before 2013. despite this, vladimir putin illegally annexed crimea and waged a war against ukraine 10 years ago. i am confident all of these types of so-called peace plans that envisage the seating of territory from ukraine to rush our complete nonsense, unacceptable. in the clear cut violation of international norms and international law. the only plan which we have on the table is, first, how to restore the territorial integrity of ukraine. second, how to defend ukraine. third, how to bring to justice russian war criminals. fourth, how to impose sanctions on russia. and for cop -- fifth, how to

restore the global order and the balance of the free world. for example, he isn't the vice president. he is the would-be vice president. he is interested in national security issues of the united states. he is interested in having the usb stronger but not weaker. so if ukraine is to lose, this will be a clear path to weakening, to a disastrous weakening of the united states. >> i will come back to the republicans in a minute. there are things to discuss about what is going on this week. when president zelenskyy3 addressed the general assembly this week he said the west needs to make decisions quicker. when you look back at decisions president biden has made he always seems to be just behind the curve of russian violence. it intentionally so.

do you have any hope as we wait for the press conference with k amala harris that she might expedite these decisions, differently, boulder? >> i believe it is appropriate to discuss the actions of the incumbent president. nobody knows who will be the next president of the united states. >> but you must have considered the implications. >> i have considered a number of options. the thing is, at the beginning of your show you said there were some kinds of trump proof actions. i believe what actions are needed are put in perfections. both republicans and democrats support ukraine. we still enjoyed bipartisan support. i do understand all of the precautions regarding the suggested presidency of donald trump. the thing is, president biden was very vocal saying,look,

he already allocated all resources needed for ukraine by the end of his term in the oval office period. that's a clear signal. and that here could action. for how to help ukraine. but whether it is enough? no it's not enough. because, i have to go back to the second pillar president biden mentioned. we needed to support ukraine in the long run. technical issues have to be resolved to start lifting -- changing the rules of engagement or listing carb so using u.s.-made muscles and not only u.s.-made muscles, even u.k. made missiles. it is just one part of the puzzle. the big picture is how to win the war. i already indicated that there are a set of tools. a set of actions desperately needed to win this righteous fight. >> what about short term?

we had an announcement today. the positive news is on top of what he has announced today, all the money congress has approved will be out of the door before the inauguration in january. everything approved thus far will be sent. is it enough to get ukraine through the winter? >> well, that is what we have on the table. let me remind you we have been waiting for more than six months when the u.s. past the security supplemental package. president biden instructed the pentagon to deliver everything possible. whether that is enoug one of the bigger threats is that russians will demolish entirely the -- ukrainian electricity grid and ukrainian electricity sector. vladimir putin's aim is to make ukraine a scorched band. we have already survived two winters.

the third winter will be very difficult. the thing is, we have to come through this winter too. vladimir putin will win. he wants to outwit us come out man and out gunned us. we want hi -- we won't give him any chance to do this. >> the most read story on the bbc website today is the appearance president putin made yesterday in front of his own security council in which he seemed to change the rules for nuclear engagement. any country that sends rockets or aircraft across the border in a major way, supported by a nuclear power, would trigger russian going to nuclear footing. do you believe he is serious or uffing? >> let me remind you that this war criminal possesses one of the biggest nuclear arsenals in the world.

this means, whether there is any minor chance that dictator britain could use this weapon, yes, there is. the thing is that what vladimir putin is doing now, he already went back to his nuclear saber rattling. in my humble opinion he believes he could impede the western allies of ukraine in their efforts to supply ukraine with the weaponry, with everything needed for ukraine to survive and prevail in the war. it's blackmail, period and he is blackmailing not only ukraine. he is blackmailing you. he's testing you. >> but the equation, that risk. this is the equation the american president is balancing today in the white house. his defense secretary told him longer-range missiles won't change the course of the war.

no weapon, he says, on its own will change the direction of the war. and if there is a risk, as you say there is, that president putin might send a ballistic missile or nuclear warhead, that is not a decision they will take, isn't -- is it? >> risk always exists. the biggest risk is that dictators and tyrants like vladimir putin will take over the world. i don't believe that vladimir putin has the guts to use nukes. i believe the chinese will be ticked off. he is testing your guts. the western world. he is testing whether we all have stamina to overcome and stay and defend. i believe the only way to stop the war is to make ukraine a nato member. i believe to make ukraine look

better and be stronger on the battlefield, the only way to do that is to supply everything needed for ukraine. don't fear vladimir putin. the only language vladimir putin understands his strength. the stronger we are, the wker these kinds of tyrants and dictators will be. >> a quick word on the issue of the nuclear threat in your country. president zelenskyy told the general assembly this week that they were using chinese satellites to look at nuclear plants in ukraine. do you seriously think he would be crazy enough to hit a nuclear power plant with conventional missiles? >> let me go back to one decade ago and 2.5 years ago. did we envisage vladimir putin as a completely crazy guy who wants to launch a land invasion

against an independent country? but he did it. whether there is a possibility that putin could hit nuclear sites in ukraine, there is. that's why we need a defense system, to defend. to prevent the kind of crazy scenario in the head of vladimir putin. >> we are watching pictures of life from the white house. the press corps are going in for a meeting we expect in the next few minutes between president zelenskyy and kamala harris. they will talk to the press first before ty go into the meeting and then he will present the victory plan that he has already showed up president biden. there is a reasonable chance kamala harris will be the next incumbent at the white house. we are being told that the meeting president zelenskyy was hoping for with donald trump won't happen at -- won't happen this week. we will talk further about that relationship with the republicans after this break.

stay with us.

>> welcome back to the program. we are waiting for kamala harris and president zelenskyy to appear at the white house to give us thoughts on their meeting this evening in washington. we are in conversation with the former ukrainian prime minister. i mentioned at the top of the program the letter that the republican house speaker sent to president zelenskyy yesterday. he is incandescent that the president went to this arms factory in pennsylvania over the weekend. that state is a crucial key battleground state in the election. without any republican representatives. he called on president zelenskyy to sack the ukrainian ambassador to the u.s.. what did you make of the letter?

what does it say about what is right now a very delicate relationship with republicans? we showed you lindsey graham, the republican senator that doesn't support more arms to ukraine. but it is very much on the balance in the conservative side of the house. your microphone may be muted. if your microphone muted? -- is your microphone muted? can you hear me? we will see if we can reestablish that line with the former prime minister very shortly. these are pictures coming to us from the white house. i want to bring you up to speed with what happened so far today. president zelenskyy has been to meet both sides of the house. all congressional leadership today was where he started his day in washington. and over the last few hours we have seen pictures of him in

conversation with president biden. the meat of that discussion, as we have been telling you, is the victory plan, this document that is a closely guarded document for obvious reasons. there are probably state secrets involved in it. but there is a semblance of a plan from the ukrainian perspective on how they would go about winning the war. the victory plan, we are told, will be presented to kamala harris in the next hour. i thin we have some reaction from president zelenskyy just at the beginning of the meeting with president biden paid let me play that to you. >> to date we have a new support package. it will be a great help. with president biden's plan of victory, we will coordinate positions and our teams will work together to ensure

implementation of our future steps. today, in the morning i met with both the senate and the house. thank you for your unwavering bipartisan support. and to all of the american people coming together we have to win. >> a very strong relationship there. it is often overlooked that kamala harris was the person that went to meet president zelenskyy just before the invasion to end a half years ago -- two and a half years ago. it has been a long-running relationship that they will re-forge this evening. the former prime minister of ukraine is back with us. sorry. we lost of the line. we were talking about the letter. the letter that the house speaker sent. what was your reaction to that given the delicate relationships your country has at the moment

with the conservative side of the house? >> i want to be very clear. ukraine isn't on the campaign trail in the united states. ukraine and never mattered in the u.s. elections. let me be very blunt. i don't want vladimir putin to celebrate and pop champagne in the kremlin. he still has a champagne made in france because they circumvent sanctions. we need to show real unity of the entire free world. otherwise, no, if you -- otherwise, look, if ukraine fails, and this is an appeal to my american friends and allies, if ukraine fails, then it will not be just putin. it will be presidenti.

then the ayatollah of iran, then it north korea and a bunch of different dictators and tyrants who will celebrate and pop campaign and have activities. to support ukraine in order to support the united states of america. when you give us weapons, you defend yourself because we defend you. >> you must have heard president trump's in georgia monda we have long known he was opposed to sending money to ukraine. you can't have missed the tone dripping in condescension. he was resentful of president zelenskyy on his appeals for money. there is no way he said russia won't win. does it frustrate you that somehow he has a blind spot that he doesn't see connections between the kremlin, tehran,

pyongyang, beijing. that he doesn't see this new access that has formed over the last year? >> it is so obvious. look, i don't have a chance and . ukraine isn't part of the election campaign in the united states. we aren't on the campaign trail. we don't support to democrats or republicans. we support the american people and their choice. but it is so obvious that there is a new axis of evil and at the main target of evil or access of autocracy is the u.s.. it's the free world. if, for example, former president trump wants the u.s. to be stronger, he has to make ukraine stronger. in order to show the entire

world that the real allies and the leader of the free world will never abandon the nation that fights for its sovereignty and independence. otherwise it will be a clear-cut sign. it will be an ominous sign for china, for xi, for iran and venezuela and all those that disregard the global order, the fragments of the job order. >-- the global order. >> you talked about western products that go across the border into russia, maybe french champagne, i don't know. but certainly we have seen pictures of british cars going across, all kinds of equipment and secondary parts go into manufacturing of missiles and military vehicles. do you think the sanctions regime is tight enough? would you hope the united states would look again at sanctioning elements in china providing

things to russia >> you already provided the perfect answer. the british cars are still delivered to russia. the russians already crafted how to circumvent sanctions. it is crystal clear again. whether we have tools and enough ammunition to both ramp up sanctions and increase pressure on pressure, yes we do. yes we do. but whether we have the political will and ability to make this, look at the media. at the media. the media already reported a number of different routes for how russia circumvents sanctions. let's do our job. let's press and press again. let's do what is needed. let's stop the flood of dual use materials. stop the flood of casho russia. stop the flood of goods that

actually underpin the russian war machine. china is one of the key sponsors of this and not only china. >> it is really good to have a conversation with you, thank you very much for coming on the program. i hope you come announcer: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... financial services firm, raymond james. announcer: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation, pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ announcer: "usa today" calls it, "arguably the best bargain in streaming." that's because the free pbs app lets you watch the best of pbs anytime, anywhere.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ announcer: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... woman: two retiring executives turn their focus to greyhounds, giving these former race dogs real chance to win. a raymond james financial advisor gets to know you, your purpose, and the way you give back. life well planned.