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i'm christian fraser, and this is "the context." >> this happened by design, not accident. policies were reformed deliberately to liberalize immigration. >> what we have seen is that in the space of four euros, net migration quadrupled. >> we need a new approach, hard cap on numbers, move away from mass low skilled, low-wage migration towards a much, much lower, limited number of high skilled, high wage of migrants. >> they want to increase the size of the economy and shriveled immigration numbers. big asks, particularly when you try to do both. christian: sir keir starmer has accused the conservatives of deliberately allowing migration to balloon while in office.

in 2009, the last full year labour was in power, net migration, the difference between the number of people entering the u.k. and leaving, stood 22 9000. where did it go wrong? also tonight, pleading guilty in court after misleading the police in 2014. and "masterchef's" gregg wallace steps away from presenting the program while allegations of misconduct are investigated. his lawyers strongly deny the allegations. welcome to the program. sir keir starmer accused conservatives of deliberately allowing it migration to balloon in office. in 2009, the last for your labor was in power, net migration started about 229,000. test-forward to 2023, a record

906 the u.k. - 906,000 enter to the u.k. the prime minister said the government was lding a one hyphenation experiment o open borders. chs mason has more. chris: who arrives in the u.k. and who goes? who is welcome and who is not? the politics of immigration over the last ticket is a catalog of failure when you compare the numbers with the words. net migration to the control be in the orders of tens of thousands, no ifs, no buts. >> it is important we have net migration in sustainable numbers. >> the numbers will come down because we will be able to control the system. >> i'm committed to bringing

those numbers down. chris: for now at least, the prime minister can and does blame his predecessors. prime min. starmer: this happened by design, not accident. policies were reformed deliberately to liberalize immigration. brexit was used for that purpose, to turn britain into a one hyphenation experiment in chris: he says they are working on a plan to cut the numbers of illegal migrantss with a crackdown on visa abuse and better training so employers don't need as many foreign workers. he won't put a number on the net migration he would be happy with, but says it has to come down significantly. >> the u.k. appears to have become addicted to immigrati despite the fact that millions of people for years and years and indicated they want to see numbers fall. why should people believe you now that you can achieve something that predecessors have

not? prime min. starmer: there is a fundamental problem here and that is to do with how our economy works in the loss of control of immigration under the last government. we will turn it around with the measures i set out. chris: yesterday the new conservative leader in her shadow home secretary said their party had gotten immigration wrong. what will they do now? >> we need a new approach, a hard cap on numbers, we need to move away from mass, low-skill, low-wage migration towards a much lower, limited number of high-skilled, high-wage migrants. chris: the conservatives won't tell us what that numerical cap would be u.k. celebrated 100,000 members today. nigel farag says the consequencese of the immigration numbers are obvious. >> renders if you want to get a gp appointment, horrendous if you want to travel around britain's motorways, horrendous

if you want your kids or grandkids to get a foot on the housing letter. chris: arrivals and departures will remain central to our national conversation for years to come. christian: chris mason reporting. professor brian bell is the chair of the migration advisory committee. he provides advice to the home secretary on immigration policy and is a professor of economics at king's college, london. welcome to the program, thank you for being with us. from 2009 to 2024 we had almost a fourfold increase in migration. yesterday the conservative leader said her party had gotten the strategy wrong. >> although that number is true, it stayed around 250,000 for most of the 2010s. it is only after the pandemic that we've seen the big rises. what did they get wrong? they made choices. just to give you a few, they

decided they would be very generous to international students and create a graduate route that would allow students who came to the u.k. to stay after they graduate work in the u.k. labor market. that was a choice they made . they decided to offer ukrainian hong kong citizens humanitarian access to the u.k. that was a choice they made. they decided to extend the skilled worker route two allow care workers to come in because of the plight of the care worker workforce. that was a choice. christian: can you increase the size of the economy, as chri mason says, and at the same tim reduce the size of the workforce? >> you can if workers can become super productive. the only way you can make the economy bigger is to have more people doing the same level of work, or to get fewer people to do more work in terms of be more effective in their jobs. clearly we would prefer to have people more productive. but that's not an easy thing to achieve.

it has not been easy for the u.k. economy the last few years. we have had poor productivity growth. christian: so you are in a position where you are advising the prime minister. he says he is imminently going to put out a white per with solutions to deal with this. what are you telling him? what advice are you giving? >> the thing that the labor government got right here is to think about what the causes of the increase in immigration is and to deal with those. and when you deal with those, you reduce net migration because you have dealt with the problem. that is a criticism of previous governments that immigration has been the solution to avoided dealing with the problem. just to give you two simple examples, if you don't pay care workers enough, you won't get enough people wanting to be care is very hard and quite stressful, and there are easier jobs that pay minimum wage. you either gotta pay care workers more, or you rely on immigration. there is of choice you have to make.

for universities, a similar choice is made. you work out how to fund universities properly so they don't lose money when they teach british studts and have to make up the loss with international students. you either solve the problem or you rely on immigration to solve the problem by having international students. there are choices you need to make. the thing the government are getting right is to say let's look at those choices first and address those. if we address them and are successfully doing so, that migration will fall as a result. christian: he won't set a figure he is aiming for. he won't set a cap. is that for political reasons? does that open him up to criticism that we are not having an honest conversation about what the u.k. economy really needs? >> in some sense whether you set a figure or not, you could argue it is false to set a figure. you remember the experience of the cameron administration who continually set a figure of less than 100000 and consistently failed to achieve it. not sure that encourages people

to have faith in the immigration system. it is one sensible to talk about the direction of travel, and again, to address the underlying causes of fire immigration. if you do that, net migration will fall. well it will -- where it will fall to depend on how successful the policies are. the more successful you are increasing british nurses and doctors and training programs, the more successful you will be reducing our reliance on international nurses and doctors. christian: justifying one, on the figures themselves -- just a final one, on the figures themselves, are they trustworthy? how does the office for national statistics get it so wrong? brian: i think there are two problems. these are experiment of figures. essentially the ons are having to deal with the fact that we left the eu and have to have new ways of measuring migration. i think it is a difficult time for them to be doing that, particularly when such change. one issue is that they want to

-- there is this trade-off between publishing numbers fast sense as to what is going on almost in real time, and when you do that, you inevitably have to make assumptions. a simple example, one of the reasons they have to revise the numbers is they assume that a lot of students when they finish the course just leave. but it is only a few months after they finish the course that you know whether that is true or not, or whether they switched to anher visa like the graduate visa, which they are allowed to do. it is that trade-off between yes, you can get the numbers fast, but you are making lots of assumptions that may turn out not to be correct. that is a choice you have to make. christian: professor brian bell, good ttalk to you tonight. thank you very much f. "masterchef: presenter gregg wallace will stop presenting the program allegations of misconduct are investigated. it comes after a bbc news which heard from 13 people accusing him of inappropriate sexual comments and inappropriate

behavior over 17 years. his lawyer strongly denies he engaged in the behavior of a sexually harassing nature. the bbc says it takes any issues raised seriously. our culture reporter has the story. >> you've got 15 minutes to finish it. reporter: gregg wallace, one of britain's most recognizable tv hosts -- for years he has been the face of prime time tv. a bbc news investigation answered allegations of inappropriate sexual comments and inappropriate behavior across a 17-year period. >> stop, times up. reporter: the veteran tv presenter kirsty wark was a contestant on "celebrity masterchef" in 2011. >> two occasions in particular where he used to sexualized language in front of a number of people.

it was completely one-way traffic. i think people were uncomfortable. i was actually more angry than anything else. i thought it was so inappropriate. >> no one has been late yet. reporter: kirsty wark is one of 13 people making claims about gregg wallace's behavior. many are young freelancers. allegations we have heard including gregg wallace talking about his sex life, taking his top off in front of female worker, telling her he wanted to give her a fashion show, and telling a junior female colleague he wasn't wearing any boxer shorts under his jeans. >> the smiling cook, gregg wallace! reporter: in 2018 a formal complaint was raised about him on the game show "impossible celebrities." an hr investigation took place. in the outcome letter, which we have seen, the bbc concluded many aspects of wallace's behavior were both unacceptable

and unprofessional. wallace apologized. a senior executive at the bbc held a meeting with wallace to make clear how seriously the bbc takes this matter. she also said that action would be taken to prevent a similar reoccurrence. but allegations of further incidents have since emerged. claire -- not her real name -- worked on "masterchef" between 2018 and 2020. >> he would ask us for a massage of his back hurt, always staring straight at your chest even if you weren't wearing anything revealing. it was more "i'm doing this to let you know i can do this." one reporter: of the biggest trade union reporter:s says they have been aware of a number of allegations against him. >> while i would like to say i'm surprised by these reports, i guess my reaction is it was a matter of when, not if these stories started to emerge. reporter: on tuesday we put the allegations to gregg wallace's

representatives. to date it has been confirmed that he is totep away from presenting "masterchef." wallace's lawyers say it is entirely fault that he engages in behavior of a sexually harassing nature, and claimed the bbc probing 2018 found his behavior was not sexually inappropriate. but tonight, more claims of emerged, including from rockstar rod stewart, who said wallace humiliated his wife when she was on "masterchef," adding "karma got you." christian: plenty more on that story on the bbc website. we will take a short break. you are watching bbc news.

christian: the lebanese army says israel has violated the cease-fire with hezbollah on several occasions since wednesday morning. three lebanese border towns are reported to have come under israeli gunfire today. israel also said its planes have

struck a facility in the area used by hezbollah to store midrange rockets. the israeli military issued a list of 10 border villages that remain off-limits until further notice. the israeli military has renewed a nighttime curfew for south lebanon on day of the cease-fire2 with hezbollah, and travel south of the litani river is banned while those there should remain put. joining us to discuss his dennis ross, former middle east advisor to president obama and author of "the missing piece." thank you for being with us. can we start with lebanon? under the terms of this agreement, if hezbollah looks to be preparing an attack in israel has this side letter agreeing it can take military action, we are seeing they were enforcing the cease-fire according to their interpretation, how long can a cease-fire hold if that is the way it is going to work? dennis: i'm not entirely sure that is exactly what we are seeing right now. what is very clear is that

hezbollah is not supposed to be sending anybody back down into the south. i think the israelis are acting that if they violate right now, we will respond. now, you're right that there probably is some understandings with the united states, but i think those understandings were a function of something that has not yet been set up. according to the agreement, there is supposed to be a committee in which if there is a violation, you immediately logic complaint, and then that committee, which is chaired by the united states, will seek to immediately reverse the violation, and if it isn't at that point reversed, then the israelis i think i'm entitled to act. actually, the agreement itself talks about each side being permitted to engage in acts of self-defense, and i think that is a euphemism for saying that if there is a violation, each site has a right to do something. it is pretty clear at this point that hezbollah has been testing some of the limits by sending people to the south.

they are not supposed to be doing that. the reason for the israeli curfew is there is not supposed to be any movement to the south until you have the lebanese army deploying to the south. that hasn't happened yet. christian: right, you think this is more of the tension that would ordinarily surround a withdrawal from territory. you've got a retreating israeli army back to the border and a lot of movement, and obviously a lot of tension built into that. but you think it will change the way that the israelis will respond once this committee is in place? dennis: i do believe that is the case. right now you don't have the structure set up to implement the accords. you have the cease-fire, so in essence you have hezbollah testing what the possibilities are and the israelis immediately demonstrating don't think you can get away with violations. christian:, right, understood. obviously a cease-firin lebanon is not a precursor to one in gaza, but prime minister netanyahu said conditions for reaching a possible deal have considerably improved. why do you think things have

suddenly shifted? dennis: i think there is two reasons for it. the first reason, maybe the most important, is hamas had counted on hezbollah to continue to tie down israeli forces, had counted on iran to be supporting hamas. what they have suddenly seen, iran is the principal actor here that made the decision for hezbollah to do the cease-fire. it sends a related message that if there is a cease-fire, that gives the iranians an excuse not to retaliate for what israel did in its retaliation for iran firing ballistic missiles on the night of october 26, israel took out all the radars of the strategic air and missile defenses that the iranians have an destroyed about 90% of its missile-producing capability. iran had threatened they would retaliate. they haven't to this point. now that there is a cease-fire, which hezbollah has adopted,

that becomes a reason for iran to say, look, we have a reaso not to retaliate because there is a cease-fire. so i think you look at that context, that backup, and what it means is if you are hamas, you are certainly much more alone, not only with hezbollah going its own weight, but iran as well. i suspect that is a factor here. i think the other one is prime minister netanyahu in a sense is able to claim victory in lebanon in effect because hezbollah has been largely decimated. well, the truth is so has hamas as a military. hamas doesn't exist any longer as a military. the biden administration is actually working to create what would come after a war here, meaning who is going to be assuming responsibility in gaza on some kind of interim basis in a way that if you build up some kind of international presence that included regional actors, israel would be able to withdraw. it is able to withdraw into circumstance where it can

claim it had succeeded. christian: when it comes to that consideration, the humanitarian effort, which will be massive in gaza, has to be part of the solution. the u.n. put out a reminder today that more than 2 million people are now trapped with little access to food, no access to safe drinking water. there have been torrential downpours over gaza, a lot of them under canvas come of course. do you think israel is doing enough to alleviate the suffering? dennis: i think israel all along has not done what it could have done in the humanitarian area. i think that includes not just what it's allowed in, and from time to time it is a lot much more in. the problem has been, and to be fair, not only the israeli problem, when the israelis have dramatically increased the amount of humanitarian assistance going in, we see hamas and criminal gangs frequently seizing it. in the case of hamas, they go ahead and then they sell it. on the israel decided they didn't do very much to deal with the security of distribution.

but then the rest of the world didn't, either. if you are demanding of the israelis to provide more in terms of humanitarian assistance, then it was incumbent on the rest of the will to do what it could to ensure that there was distribution. i think the israelis have some responsibility for that, but internationally there was also responsibility. christian: just really quickly, on the issue of the icc arrest warrant, obviously the europeans are split now. the french suggested yesterday that maybe the court didn't have jurisdiction over israel. the british foreign secretary to think otherwise, that the u.k. authorities would have to act if the prime minister came here. do you think it is going to complicate the west's relationship with israel and the attempts to find a two state solution? dennis: you know, it is interesting that you raise the question that way, because the french, president macron had adopted a position and he changed because the israelis were objecting to the role that

the french would play on this committee that the u.s. would chair. so it does sort of raise this question, if you want the israelis to be cooperating with you, will you be able to act on the icc and still have them cooperate with you? christian: really interesting. dennis ross, it's always good to talk to you. dennis: my pleasure, thank you. christian: just a short story that spread in the last hour, the transport secretary louise haig has admitted she pleaded guilty after misleading the police while a parliamentary candidate in 2014. she said she was mugged while on a night out but then made a mistake in the report office that a mobile phone had been stolen. let us speak to our transport correspondent. pick up the story there. she makes this report to the police. then what happens? reporter: the only account we have of this at the moment is by louise haigh, because the metropolitan police, with which

she served as a volunteer police officer, saiwhatever the conviction is for is spent -- in other words, does not have to be disclosed by the average person for any jobs. on louise haigh's account, she said she was mugged back in 2013 and she said she reported a number of items sto from her at that point, -- stolen from her at that point, one of them work mobile phone. police have noticed on her statement she said that the mobilehone was turned on. she was advised by her lawyers to make no comments to the interview. she said that it's a decision she absolutely regret, because it was passed to u.k. prosecutors and she appeared later at the magistrates court and pleaded guilty to an offense. we don't know what that offense iset. pleaded guilty to an offense and received what she describes as the lowest possible sanction, a

discharge. christian: any response from the labour party tonight? sean: my sources have told us that louise haigh and fully declared her conviction when she was appointed to the shadow cabinet while labour were in opposition. all the details have been emerging over the recent past, so we are making those calls and we will bring that to you as soon as we can, and specially for the transport secretary. christian: shaun jolly, thank you very much. on the other going to focus on -- on the other going to focus on aaii decoded, and the advancs we see in ukraine. announcer: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... financial services firm, raymond james.

announcer: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation, pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ announcer: get the free pbs app now and stream the best of pbs.

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