♪ amna: good evening. i'm amna nawaz. geoff bennett is away. on the "newshour" tonight. fbi director chris wray announces his resignation, paving the way for president-elect trump's choice -- kash patel -- to take charge . syria's uncertain future after the fall of bashar al-assad raises concerns about instability in the region. and judy woodruff speaks with political analysts about whether

the nation can unite in the wake of the presidential election. judy: this is really is a test of who we are. do i believe we can do it? i believe that we have to believe we can do it or we have guaranteed that we cannot. ♪ >> major funding for the pbs "newshour" has been provided by. >> in 1995 two friends set out to make wireless coverage accessible to all. with no long-term contracts and 100% u.s.-based customer report. u.s. cellular. freedom calls. . >> working to advance exclusive democracies. >> the judy and peter bloom foundation. upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at

home and abroad. the walton family foundation. working for solutions to protect water during climate change so people and nature can thrive together. supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. more information at macfound.org . and with the ongoing support of these institutions. ♪ this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station by viewers like you. thank you. amna: welcome to the "newshour." in a highly unusual move, the director of the fbi is stepping down. christopher wray announced today that he intends to leave his position when president-elect

donald trump takes office in january. this comes after mr. trump named kash patel as his nominee to run the fbi, despite the fact that trump was the one who appointed wray, and wray was serving a 10-year term that was not set to end until 2027. speaking to fbi employees, wray addressed his decision to resign. director wray: my goal is to keep the focus on our mission, on the indispensable work each of you is doing every single day. in my view, this is the best way to avoid dragging the bureau deeper into the fray, while reinforcing the values and principles that are so important to how we do our work. amna: our white house correspondent laura barron-lopez has been following the developments. what else did chris wray say in those remarks and why did he resign? laura: fbi director wray was

forced with two options -- resign or be fired by president-elect donald trump. fbi director wray said the decision came after weeks of thought. something the fbi director spoke about today. this is it a political organization and he talked about the mission of the bureau today in his remarks. director wray: our dedication to independence and objectivity, and our defense of the rule of law -- those fundamental aspects of who we are must never change, that is the real strength of the fbi -- the importance of our mission, the quality of our people, and their dedication to service over self. laura: the fbi's dedication to the rule of law, being a nonpartisan bureau, was more established after the watergate

scandal. fbi director wray added the fbi is only on the side of the constitution and it has to follow the facts. he said no matter who likes it or does not. amna: take a step back and tell us how unprecedented this moment is in history and for the fbi. laura: it is incredibly unprecedented. fbi directors are confirmed to a 10-year term and all to date have been republicans, including wray. the 10 year term is designed to insulate the director from politicians and to maintain the fbi's independence. it is not normal for the fbi director to resign like this or for them to be fired. only two directors have been fired, one under president bill clinton and one under donald trump, james comey. amna: we saw president-elect trump respond quickly. what did he say? laura: president-elect trump

celebrated -- no surprise -- wray's resignation in a truth social post. trump said under wray's leadership the fbi illegally raided my home. it is false that it was an illegal search of mar-a-lago purity it was a search for classified documents the former president had at mar-a-lago. trump also said we want our fbi back and that will never happen. i look forward to kash patel's confirmation so the process of making the fbi great again can continue. kash patel is donald trump's -- donald trump appointed wray after he fired james comey in 2017, angry james comey was investigating russian interference in the election. at the time trump said wray was a model of integrity and guarding of the lot. since trump and republicans have soured on the fbi.

they called it the deep state. including kash patel, he called it the deep state. he said he wants to fire multiple people across the fbi. amna: you talk to multiple current and former law enforcement officials including from the fbi. how are they responding? laura: multiple officials said they are disappointed but not surprised. multiple people said christopher wray should have stayed in the role and forced trump to fire him because they believe that would have more maintained in the bureau's independence and showed it is not partisan and this is a role that is separate from the president. a current official said the big question is what role will politics play in the fbi now and how they conduct investigations? amna: what happens next? laura: the current deputy director at the bureau, he is next in line to become the

acting director of the bureau. that is if president-elect donald trump does not decide to fire him and appointed his own acting director, which he has the power to do. it would have to be someone who has already been senate confirmed. amna: laura barron-lopez with the latest. thank you. laura: thank you. amna: assad -- wray's resignation. he is one of several nominees on the hill today. our lisa desjardins joins us now from the capitol. has this news changed the momentum for kash patel? what are you hearing? lisa: it does not hurt. it means there will be a new fbi director. it was pretty much know that trump would replace christopher wray. as you can see, patel was on the hill. this is him meeting with senators. he has had a much more

disciplined approach, saying today, for example, that he knows he has to earn senators' trust. that is different from the tone he took in the past. in media appearances he promoted conspiracy theories including the false idea that the 2020 election was rigged. he said he wants to come after members of the media. it is a different tone on capitol hill and is earning the support of john cornyn of texas who said he is someone who thinks he can back. patel right now is trying to create an image of someone disciplined and focused on the job. he is having a good week but senators know this is a very important job and they are ready for these hearings we expect in january. amna: we know you have been tracking the patel is one of several key nominees. help us understand how the other nominees including the defense for defense secretary, pete hegseth, are doing. lisa: you could almost not walk

down any hallway without running into, as i did, another nominee for a cabinet post. let's talk about pete hegseth. he had a critical meeting with senator susan collins of maine. >> i'm certainly not going to assume anything about where the senator stands. this is a process that we respect and appreciate and we hope through time, overall, when we when we get through that committee and to the floor, that we can earn her support. but it's about earning support in this process, in ongoing conversations. lisa: you might have spotted a theme -- earning support, respecting the process. this is the mantra we are seeing for the controversial trump nominees. susan collins is an important vote. she is a promilitary member of the senate. a defense hawk at times. she stressed she had a thorough discussion with hegseth.

>> we had a good discussion. i'm not going to go into every question i asked, although i asked virtually every question under the sun. i pressed him both on his position on military issues as well as the allegations against him. so, i don't think there is anything we did not cover. lisa: those allegations include a criminal report of sexual assault in california years ago. there were no charges filed. i asked senator collins if she would like to hear from the accuser in the case. reports are she is under a nondisclosure agreement. susan collins said she would. collins said hegseth told her regarding women in combat, something he has opposed before, he is now more open to that.

a quick look at the nominees on the hill. in general, the nominees for trump have had a good week on the hill. amna: we also know you are tracking all the other news. congress has a l before they are aiming to take recess, including a major defense spending bill. lisa: let's run through this. the national defense authorization act passed through the house tonight. a 4.5% raise for all service members. 14.5% pay raise for the most junior enlisted service members. it would also have food assistance for low income members of the military. there are cultural items. a compromise on republicans and democrats it would ban health care treatment for transgender military kids. there is some debate over which treatment that would entail. for the pay raise, i would say he would go from $24,000 to

$27,000 for some members of the media. amna: government funding is supposed to run out? lisa: i want to raise one other thing. something that happened last night. there was a member of the house, republican from south carolina, who said she had an incident i want to make note of, while she was shaking hands after a foster care event, she said she was accosted. the person was arrested for assault. this person is known as a foster youth advocate. the police report said it was a handshake that she said was too aggressive. witnesses said it was a normal handshake, just enthusiastic. the advocate did bring up trans youth, something she has opposed. amna: that is lisa desjardins reporting on capitol hill. thank you. lisa: you're welcome.

amna: now, to syria. the country's new leaders today vowed to create unity, but also hold to account the people who facilitated a half century of assad rule. those calls for revenge added to the unease of many syrian minorities, including u.s. partners in the fight against isis, who today had to give up hard won territory. nick schifrin begins our coverage. nick: in fractured syria today, every fraction is trying to see that much power as possible. residents in the northeast welcomed a rebel group. up until now the city had been controlled by the u.s.-backed mostly kurdish syrian democratic forces. those kurdish forces also lost control of northern syria.

this time turkish backed syrian national army. the map of syria continues to be redrawn. the coalition that controls the capital and the west, hts and the syrian national army are pushing against the kurds. a u.s. official tells pbs "newshour" the u.s. negotiated with kurdish troops to hand over both cities. the u.s. priority continues to be a sharing currents can contain pockets of isis. in the south, israel has seized territory that has been demilitarized for 50 years. syria's unease is felt. in the heartland, sunni rebels torched the grave of the father of bashar al-assad. the two ruled syria for more than a half-century. their brutality today is still being uncovered. outside this damascus morgue, families hope for news from

relatives who long ago disappeared. mostly they foun horror. bodies burned beyond recognition by assad's institutionalized industrial punishment of perceived enemies. >> i lost my sons in 2013. i have been submitting requests to the military police but they keep telling me they do not have them. since 2013i have not seen them nor do i know their fate. nick: today the country's defective leader vowed to hold former members of assad's regime accountable and dissolve for security forces. he said we call on nations to hand over to us wherever those criminals have escaped to to subject them to justice. some mobs are taking justice into their own hands. across syria, social media videos show rebel factions

killing assad officers reportedly responsible for decades of torture. but today, for the victors, for those who feel free in post-assad syria, the syrian capital was a picture of peace, even if the scars of war were nearby. the interim prime minister vowed to create unity. that is not guaranteed but in the market in town square, there is a feeling of freedom. for the pbs news hour, i am nick schifrin. amna: the sea change toward tenuous hope in syria over the last two weeks has been tempered with a grim accounting of the last 14 years of war, not to mention more than half a century of authoritarian rule under the assad family. we have two teams there now, and will have more reporting from around the country in the coming days. tonight, i'm joined by special correspondent leila molana-allen from damascus. western journalists have largely

been banned from entering syria for years but you managed to get in undercover last year. what has changed and what has the mood been like in damascus? leila: it is like night and day. i cannot tell you what it is like to walk the streets and have people freely running up to you saying take my picture. let me tell you what i think. previously working here was always about fear, secrecy, constantly looking over your shoulder for the secret police, terrified about keeping your contacts safe, the people brave enough to speak out. most people did not. the mood is so different. people are keen to share their views. some people who said they supported the assad regime clearly did not. a number of people on the streets telling stories of the horrific experiences they endured not just during bashar al-assad's regime but his

father's, as well. the streets were full of people in damascus holding their children in the air, celebrating. holding the revolutionary syrian flag, saying syria is for everyone, this country is free. we are seeing movements toward trying to reintegrate this country that has been so split. the issue is syria is diverse. assad made it sectarian because he told people and minorities at the sunni muslims for the majority and isis will kill you. he scared people. one person said to me that is not true. hts are trying to make a point, loudly saying women can be uncovered, they do not have to dress the way we would in our communities. trying to integrate people from the northwest. for the first time ever people

could use their ids. just a few examples of the way things are moving forward. amna: you mentioned the joy. we have been watching scenes of joy unfold. there is also so much uncertainty ahead. what are the biggest challenges facing syria as a country and its people in the coming days and months? leila: there are so many challenges. the most immediate being getting this country up and running again. the economy has been an utterly dire straits for years because of sanctions posed on syria. no one has been able to rebuild their home. many of the buildings have been bombed, infrastructure is not working. rebels swept in and services have gone out. . there has not been phone signals, internet, water or electricity. so many services are locked into the government. patience will last a while but

not that long. across the country there are so many issues because the country has been divided for so long. in the northwest for the rebels live, many people can return to their homes but so many homes have been destroyed by russian airstrikes and syrian regime shelling and they do not have a place to go. also trying to get kids back into school, trying to make a deal with the kurds in the north east of syria. they are afraid this chaos could lead to isis rising up again. of course the fear over what hts wants to do. they are making noises about -- will discontinue or will we see a move to a more islamic structure? people are concerned. some believe it and some do not. some people fleeing to try to get out of the country. the lebanese border are full of people trying to escape.

many fears in this country, many hopes, as well of what a free syriac could look like. peoplere saying please, western powers, come in and help us while we can rebuild this country. so much joy but so much loss as people across the country find their homes destroyed, find family members who are dead or forgotten forever. mixed feelings. perhaps what syrian people have dreamed of will come. amna: that is special correspondent leila molana-allen reporting from damascus tonight. thank you. ♪ we start the day's other headlines in malibu, californiaa -- where fire crews are working to contain a wind-driven wildfirehat exploded in size overnight. stephanie sy has our report. stephanie: in malibu, the night

sky was bright orange. strong winds sand the franklin fire as it burn for a second night along a stretch of coast 30 miles west of los angeles. the flames inching toward roads, engulfing cars and turning palm trees into tender. >> as of this morning the franklin fire has burned approximately 3983 acres and is 7% contained. this is a 39% increase in acreage overnight. stephanie: today, officials said weather conditions appear to improve, giving 1500 firefighters a chance to stop the rapid spread. still, the fire scorched a handful of structures and remains a threat to thousands more. celebrities like cher and dick van dyke evacuated their seaside homes as well as residents who

described the blaze as something out of hollywood come to life. >> last night felt like a movie because of the images i was seeing. the craziest looking fire i saw in my life. the smell, the smoke, palm trees i have seen for 10 years that were just lit like a candle. stephanie: nestled in the hills along the fire's path, pepperdine university, home to some 3000 students. final exams were interrupted yesterday by a sudden shelter-in-place order. >> you just saw the flames coming over the hill. at first it was not a problem because the wind was blowing parallel. i think maybe five minutes later they said it was in our direction. >> last night we were here through all of it. it was a little scary at some point. we did not sleep much. stephanie: the university reported little to no damage to structures on campus. evacuation centers have opened up across the region.

this one set up by the red cross offers a refuge for anyone and any pet. workers say about 12 families and a few goats have already checked in. >> it is important people to evacuate when they are told to. animals are welcomed. stephanie: malibu is no stranger to major fires. coastal winds and often dried terrain make it one of the most fire prone areas in southern california. last night the mayor gave words of assurance. >> it will be a while before it grows back but that is how it is in malibu. it burns and comes back. stephanie: the cause of this fire is still unknown. no fatalities have been reported. compared to blazes of the past, property damage has been minimal. for the pbs "newshour," i am stephanie sy. amna: albertsons has officially terminated its multibillion-dollar merger with rival kroger and is suing its

competitor. this comes a day after two judges halted the proposed deal. the $24.6 billion tied up would have been the largest merger in history. companies claimed it would help them compete against walmart and costco but the ftc sued to block the deal's it would raise prices by eliminating competitions. albertsons is seeking billions of dollars in damages, accusing kroger of failing to follow through to its commitments to the merger. on capitol hill the outgoing secretary of state defended the biden administration's handling of the 2021 u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. appearing before the house foreign affairs committee antony blinken argued the chaos was due to the 2020 deal then president trump reached with the taliban but republican lawmakers insisted it was the biden administration to blame. a suicide bombing at kabul

airport killed 13 u.s. service members and nearly 200 afghans in the final day of the withdrawal. antony blinken opened his testimony by turning and apologizing to family members of those lost during the operation. >> president biden faced a choice. it was between ending the war or escalating it. in the three years since the end of our country's longest war, all of us including myself have wrestled with what we could have done differently during that period and over the preceding two decades. amna: a state department report published last year faulted both the trump and biden administrations for insufficient planning surrounding the withdrawal. today's hearing comes as a suicide blast in kabul killed the taliban's minister for refugees along with six others. the taliban has blamed the islamic state for that attack. palestinian officials say multiple israeli strikes on the

gaza strip today killed at least 29 people. 19 of those were killed in a home were displaced people were sheltering in a norther town near the border with israel. a separate strike hit this house in a refugee camp, killing at least seven people. palestinians there woke up to the wreckage. >> we were sleeping. we did not hear the sound of the missile at all. suddenly i find myself waking up like this. i saw the rubble all over me and the children. as i stepped outside i saw bodies everywhere, blood scattered in the trees. amna: the united nations said aid to northern gaza has been largely blocked for around two months. official said that left as many as 75,000 palestinians without access to food, water, electricity or health care. officials in south korea said the country's former defense minister tried to take his own life after his arrest after a declaration of martial law.

they say correctional officers at a detention center stopped him from doing so. he remains in stable condition. he had been accused of recommending the president impose martial law and advised him to send in troops to prevent lawmakers from voting on it. separately his office resisted an attempt by police to search his office. officers had been dispatched to look for evidence related to his role in last week's events. on wall street stocks ended mixed after the latest reading on inflation showed a slight rise in prices. the dow jones average lost nearly 100 points on the day but the nasdaq surged, adding nearly 350 points to close above 20,000 for the first time ever. the s&p 500 also ended firmly in positive territory. fifa announced today that host nations for two upcoming men's world cupss.

one of the selections came with controversy. >> saudi arabia. [applause] amna: saudi arabia will be tournament host in 2034. the hugs and applause at the virtualfifa event were a formality as the country ran uncontested. also today fifa announced portugal, spain and morocco will cohost the tournament in 2030. the 20 26 world cup will take place across the u.s., mexico and canada. still to come, police were to link evidence at the murder scene of united health care ceo to the suspect in custody. a panel of political panelist lay out their concern following the presidential election. an author discusses inequities in the criminal justice system on the 10th anniversary of his groundbreaking book. ♪ >> this is the pbs "newshour"

from the david m rubenstein studio in washington and from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. amna: police today said fingerprints and shell casings collected at the scene of last week's merger of united health care ceo brian thompson are directly connected to their prime suspect, luigi mangione. the fingerprints matched the 26-year-old and the casings match the gun found on him when he was arrested in pennsylvania. i am joined by william in new york. we have this new evidence linking the alleged shooter to the crime. police also say they are in possession of some notes written by him. what kind of insight is that giving us? what have we learned as it relates to motive? william: police have at least two different pieces of writing from the suspect.

one is a notebook allegedly follow plumbing details. the other is what people have been calling his manifesto. it is a 260-word handwritten document where reportedly he takes credit and claims responsibility for the killing. police have not released the manifesto in its entirety. one journalist claims to have a copy of it and has posted it on his website and it is floating all over the internet. what we know from police sources is the suspect describes the killing as a symbolic takedown and generally expresses is now well documented fury and anger at the health care industry in general. that has resonated with so many people who seemingly look past the grisly murder and still side with him in their complaints as far as health insurance is run in this country. the notebook that police have

described some of the planning process, reportedly, that he will go after an unnamed health care ceo at a meeting. it would be a targeted, precise and does not risk innocence -- which apparently the suspect thought about using a bomb at one point but decided that might injure too many other people. for right now the suspect is still in custody in pennsylvania. he is fighting extradition where he would come to new york city to face that murder charge. amna: given that brian thompson, the 50-year-old father of two, was a health insurance executive, some made the connection between the work he did and the reporting around the suspect in this case, who allegedly had a serious back injury and back pain he was dealing with. what do we know about that connection? william: for a long period of time the suspect wrote on the website reddit about his back

problems, it started in his 20's when he suffered a surfing injury. he had surgery to try to address it. . the writing seven taken down but journalist wrote archived versions. there is no indication of violence or ill intent toward health-care workers are the industry but it documents his frustration with that system more broadly. amna: there is another report in detail in the suspect's case, he wants reportedly expressed admiration for ted kaczynski, the man known as the unabomber. william: this suspect posted a lot of book reviews on a website called good reads. among them was him giving 4 stars to the unabomber's manifesto. ted kaczynski sent mail bombs around the country, murdered three people and hurt dozens of

other people but one of the attacks to draw attention to his manifesto, a critique of industrialization and the technological revolution we were living through. that is why some police officials believe this suspect might have been inspired by kaczynski, who used violence to draw attention to his political beliefs. amna: that is william with the latest on the killing of the united health care ceo. thank you. william: thank you. ♪ amna: for the past two years, judy woodruff has been exploring the deep divisions we play out every day in the country. as we wrap up the year she recently sat down with a panel of noted thinkers to talk through their concerns and hopes following the election. it is part of her ongoing series

-- america at a crossroads. >> we met last week at the lincoln cottage in washington, d.c. a place we have returned to throughout our series. here in the room where the 16th president drafted the emancipation proclamation. joining me was a former federal appellate judge, one of the leading nation's conservative jurors. a historian from boston college and author on the daily letters from an american. and theodore johnson, a contributing columnist from the washington post and retired naval offer. i began by asking them what they thought the american people were saying in this most recent election. >> america has come to the crossroads. this was the most transparent president and presidency in american history.

americans literally knew everything there was to know. about donald trump. he succeeded in convincing millions upon millions of americans that this was just another presidential election where both candidates should be considered equally, as if the one had never been president before. >> i think most americans were simply saying that did not like the higher prices that came after the coronavirus pandemic. what they will get is something very different than that thought they wanted. for example we know people who said they paid no attention to political news went 19 points for donald trump. people who were informed with what was really happening with crime and immigration went 2-1 for kamala harris. people misinformed went 3-1 for donald trump.

we are facing a crisis the judge identifies of american democracy. we are doing so in the midst of a different crisis and that is a disinformation crisis. >> ted johnson, you wrote after the election that you thought democracy had held. >> it held because we had a free and fair election and the popular vote winner is also going to win the electoral college and the system operated in exactly the way it was set to operate. the one flaw is the founders always suspected the electoral college and other representatives would ensure that people of ill character never got this far to ensure the voice of the people were filtered through folks that put justice first, patriots who put the country above their own partisan concerns and that has never panned out in american history. i would also say americans told us they are willing to be more transactional with their vote for president instead of

suggesting the person they vote for has to be a hero of sorts. instead sing maybe this person's character is a little flawed. >> do you believe we still have a strong democracy in this country? >> we only know our democracy held because donald trump won the vote. going into the election, he was unapologetic about the fact that if he did lose the vote, that he would challenge that vote in the same way that he had done in 2020. donald trump and the republican party essentially held america political hostage by threatening to overturn this election if donald trump lost. that is not a free and fair election. >> our democracy is reeling but it is not yet disintegrated.

i'm very concerned about the incoming trump administration and attempts to install what people are calling henchmen now instead of loyalists in crucial positions. i am not ready to concede that it is gone because the other side of that is the organization you see going on among people who are not recognizing that our country, our way of life and our dreams are on the line right now in a way to have not been since the 1890's or the 1850's. seemingly being willing to take up the torch to carry that forward. in the past we have managed to do it and i am concerned we will do it now. >> what we have been dealing with is a very divided country for the last several years, ted johnson. has this election made that worse? >> i do not think it has made it worse but it has not improved it. we will see if there is an evolution of our democracy.

our constitutional democracy was ok with slavery at the founding of our country. it was ok with disenfranchising women until 100 years ago. our democracy was ok with keeping immigrants from asia, central, south america, from parts of europe like ireland, folks who did not have property, out of democracy. nothing has happened in the last month to our democracy that is worse than what has happened to our democracy in the past. if this is the moment that breaks democracy than we are not the people who have earned the right to keep it. five cents of it is we are just as good as the generations that came before us and now it is our turn to protect democracy, which is always in need of defense. >> i think we will be more divided than we have been in the past four years and you can rest assured the president and the republican party will take that win as validation and

vindication of the policies, if you will, of division and divisiveness that they have thrust upon the american people. >> the division of the american people was a very deliberate political project from the 1950's onward, and it has paid enormous dividends for. certain politicians the majority of americans have always liked the liberal consensus of the post-world war ii years. if you look at the down ballot races of 2024, people protected to -- people voted to protect abortion rights and enema wages. whether you are republican -- and minimum wages. people believe in a government that does the basic thing for regulation of business, safety net and the protection of civil rights.

those people in the middle should hang together against extremists on the outside. >> are you saying the politicians have been trying to divide the american people and the american people are resisting? >> i am and ted johnson agrees. [laughter] >> i was recently in north carolina and a high school friend said they did not like either of the candidates because both of them make the other to be worse than they are and problems to be worse than they are. neither could be trusted to speak honestly about problems or what the fixes were and what could accomplish it. >> where do you see us headed? >> there are two things we have to do going forward at a basic level. we have to protect american institutions. we have to look at the right and recognize they are serving up to their voters a fiction that shapes those people's lives and voting behavior. to the degree that we can all

insist on actual fact-based reality, informing our policies, it would go a long way to healing those divisions and recognizing that most of us to agree that we are somewhere in the middle on these big questions and solving this is not that difficult once you can agree on the problem. >> i feel pretty good about democracy in terms of people having a democracy that is accessible. a republic, however, is in tatters. the electoral college needs reform, replacement or abolishing. gerrymandering needs to be out the window, dark money in politics, out the window. americans need to turn away d.c. and toward their communities. whatever the future of this country looks like i promised the answer is in local america and not the nation's capital. turn away from that stuff and turned toward the soccer teams, neighborhoods, churches, school systems and learn how to work together in the community and

that will model a democratic republic for the nation. >> the former president bent the institutions of democracy and law arguably to the breaking point. those institutions yielded to his will. that was in the past 4-8 years. but he campaigned on revenge. revenge against his political opponents and an advancement of these very institutions of democracy and law who he'd told the american people had failed him and them. in my view, they elected him because they wanted done what he said he would do. and now he is going to do that and there is nothing that can stop him. >> i am a historian. i always make the point that the future is not written.

we do not know what will happen. and with as many people still having a voice in our way of life, if not necessarily in our voting world, because in fact free and fair might be because there is voter suppression in a lot of places. this is a test of who we are, not just to our worst leaders are but who we are. do i believe we can do it? i believe we have to believe we can do it or we have guaranteed we cannot. >> on that note, thank you. ♪ amna: brian stevenson, the prominent lawyer and executive director of the equal justice initiative has blazed a trail representing the poor, wrongly convicted and those on death rope. he recently sat down with geoff bennett to discuss his career

and the release of his best-selling book. >> brian stevenson, thank you for being with us. >> my pleasure. >> just mercy was published in october of 2014. it was adapted into a film starring michael b. jordan, a lot of the claimant attention. how has it changed the criminal justice system or the public's understanding of the system in the decades since its release? >> i had been encouraged by what has happened over the last 10 years. when i started doing this work 40 years ago they were very few resources available to people in jail and prisons, people wrongly convicted, people condemned to die. in the last 20 years, certainly in the last 10 years, it has shifted enormously. we have had eight states abolish the death penalty. rates of incarceration have

dropped we are not seeing the steady increase we saw during the last decades of the 20th century. we have seen significant reforms. most of the young people i wrote about who were condemned to die when they were 13 and 14 have been released and are now out. i had been encouraged by the success we have seen over the last decade. more so by the number of people now engaged on these issues, on campuses and policy spaces. over incarceration, there is a broad perspective of alignment that we should be doing better than what we have done over the last half-century. that has been really encouraging. >> you write in the book that the power of just mercy is it belongs to the undeserving. it is wind mercy that is least expected -- >> i have the great privilege of standing next to condemned people, people who are marginalized, hated, despised,

accused of really upsetting crimes. what i have learned is when you stand next to people who are condemned and hated you can sometimes harness the power of grace and mercy and show the world something better than just condemnation. we have had a legal system for a long time that treats you better if you are rich and guilty than poor and it is said and we have not been concerned about changing that because we have ignored that population. by highlighting the people and the stories that have shifted -- and when we make the mistakes we have made -- this year we saw the 200th person exonerated after being sentenced to death. that is a startling and troubling statistic. for every eight people we have executed we have identified one innocent person on death row. if we do not think about a compassionate and -- in different to a lot of cruelty,

barbarity, a lot of unjust punishment. for me, invoking mercy, grace, this idea that the criminal justice system is not just about the people we prosecute but it is about us. what kind of society we live in, community we create where we tolerate injustice and inequality. >> there are some 40 people on federal death row including the gunman who killed the nine parishioners in charleston, south carolina, the surviving boston marathon bomber and a gunman who shot 11 people at a pittsburgh synagogue. why should any of those people be spared the death penalty given the gravity and intentionality of their crimes? >> it is largely because we do not need to execute people to show our concern, or outrage about violent crimes. if all of those folks have their death sentence commuted, they

will be serving death in prison services. they will die in prison. it is an extreme punishment. most of the democratic world, life in prison without parole is the toughest penalty you can impose. it is not about sparing people or giving them a break. they will be held accountable in a harsh way. many of those folks on the row have been unfairly prosecuted. there are problems with how we go about getting these convictions and sentences. many of the victims in the charleston case did not want dylan roof to be sentenced to death but we push forward. we move into an era where the supreme court has abandoned its oversight role. i think there are multiple reasons for why it would be appropriate. and positive to say we will not kill people who we do not have to kill. they will be condemned to prison

, they will die under incarceration. >> you write that we need a new era of truth and justice. what might that look like? >> it will better understand, looking to better understand the history that has created so much inequality. we have never taken the time in this country to confront what happened to indigenous peoples' day when europeans came to this continent. we have never reckoned with the history of slavery. most people do not know there were 10 million black people enslaved in this country. they do not know the details of the abuse. we have not talked about the collapse of --ike people were disenfranchised for a century. thousands of black people were tortured on courthouse lawns in the air of lynching. we understand what jim crow was that we do not understand the harm, decades of exclusion and humiliation in the community where black children could not attend public schools.

i saw the signs. my parents had to navigate the humiliation of jim crow. those signs created real injuries and we have not talked about those injuries. we have not committed to repairing the harm. the first thing that truth and justice requires is we become more informed about the truth of our history -- not because we want to punish people -- when i talk about slavery and lynching and segregation, i have no interest in punishing people implicated in that. my interest is liberation. there is something that feels more like freedom, equality, more like justice and it is waiting for us but we are being constrained by our unwillingness to talk honestly about the burden of this which has created toxins in the air. there is pollution everywhere in this country because we have not been honest about this history. i think that truth telling can

truly set us free. >> the book is just mercy, updated with a new prologue 10 years after its initial release. always a pleasure to speak with you. >> you, too. thanks. ♪ amna: and before we go we have a passing of note to share. someone whose name you might not know but work you have seen frequently here on the "newshour ." for more than 40 years bill captured history with his sketchbook. his work often with more cameras could not offering a first draft of high profile legal moments including the clinton impeachment, trials at guantanamo bay and countless arguments of the u.s. supreme court. he spoke to the "newshour" in 2009. >> i tried to delve deeper, i look for the details, something that would give it more.

i find myself as much a journalist in that regard. looking for that special angle on a visual that will help them that much more. >> i certainly came into this as an artist but i think i have had a unique opportunity to learn journalism from the people who i worked with, the photojournalists and the written journalists. they have helped me understand my purpose and my responsibility in telling the story accurately and truthfully, honestly and responsibly as you can. amna: bill died on monday. it was his 67th birthday. that is the "newshour" for tonight. i am amna nawaz. on behalf of the entire "newshour" team, thank you for joining us. >> major funding has been

provided by the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions and friends of the "newshour," including jim and nancy and the robert and virginia schiller foundation. the ford foundation. working with visionaries on the front linesf social change worldwide. funding for america at a crossroads was provided by. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. ♪ ♪

this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption coent and accuracy.]

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