♪ >> good evening. geoff bennett is a way. on the news hour tonight, fbi director chris ray announces his resignation. paving the way for president elect trump's choice to take charge. syria's uncertain future after the fall of assad raises concerns aut instability. and judy woodruff speaks with political analysts about whether

the nation can unite in the wake of the presidential election. >> this really is a test of who we are. do i believe we can do it? i believe we have to believe we can do it. or we are guaranteed that we cannot. ♪ >> major funding for the pbs news hour has been provided by -- >> in 1995 two friends set out to make wireless coverage accessible with no long-term contracts, nationwide coverage and 100% u.s.-based customer support. consumer cellular. freedom calls. >> the charles f kettering foundation working to advance inclusive democracies. learn more at kettering.org. the judy and peter bloom kovler foundation, strengthen democracies at home and abroad.

the walton family foundation working for solutions to protect water during climate change so people and nature can thrive together. supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at m acfound.org. and with the ongoing support of these institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> welcome to the news hour. in a highly unusual move, the director of the fbi is stepping down. christopher wray announced today that he intends to leave his

position when president elect donald trump takes office in january. that comes after mr. trump named cash patel as his nominee to run the fbi despite the fact that trump was the one who appointed wray and wray was serving a 10 year term. speaking to fbi employees, wray addressed his decision to resign. >> my goal is to keep the focus on our mission, on the indispensable work each of you is doing every single day. and in my view, this is the best way to avoid dragging the bureau deeper into the fray while reinforcing the values and principles that are so important in how we do our work. >> our white house correspondent has been following the developments. what else did chris wray say in those remarks and why did he decide to did announce this and step down? >> wray was faced with two options, either resign or be

faced with firing by president elect donald trump. and the fbi director said that this decision came after weeks of careful thought. and much of the fbi's is far afield from politics and that is something that the fbi director spoke about today. this is in a political organization and he talked a lot about the mission of the bureau today and his remarks. -- in his remarks. >> our defense of the rule of law, those fundamental aspects of who we are must never change. that's the real strength of the fbi, the importance of our mission, the quality of our people and their dedication to service over self. >> the fbi's dedication to the rule of law, being a non -partisan bureau that was established after the watergate scandal. and wray also added that the

fbi is on the side of the constitution and it has to follow the facts. "no matter who likes it who doesn't." >> tell us how unprecedented is this moment in history and for the fbi? >> it is incredibly unprecedented, and directors are confirmed to a 10 year term and all directors have been republicans including wray. that term is designed to insulate the director from politicians and to maintain the fbi's independence. it is not normal for the director to resign and not normal for them to not necessarily, not normal for them to be fired, only two directors have been fired and the history of the fbi. one under bill clinton and one under donald trump in 2017. >> and we saw trump respond quickly. what did you say and also what should we understand about his history with the bureau? >> trump celebrated. no surprise wray's resignation.

and decision to step down, on truth social and he said under wray's leadership the fbi illegally raided my home, it is false that it was an illegal search of mar-a-lago, a search conducted for classified documents that the former president had. but he also said in the post "w e want our fbi back and that will happen i look forward to patel's confirmation so the process of making fbi great again can begin to trump appointed wray after he fired james comey and 2017 angry that comey was investigating russian interference in the 2016 election at that time trump said that wray was a model of integrity and a guardian of the law but since trump has soured on the fbi and called it the deep state, including cash patel, his nominee, saying he

wants to fire multiple people across the fbi. >> on your reporting you talk to former and current law officials -- law enforcement officials. >> multiple officials said they are disappointed but not surprised. a number of them said they thought christopher wray should have stayed and forced trump to fire him because they believe that would have more maintained the bureau independence and shown that it is not partisan, that this is a role that is separate from the president, and current law enforcement officials, the question remains, what wearable politics play in the fbi now and how they conduct their investigations with many concerned about patel leading the bureau. >> what happens next? >> what happens is that paul debate, who is currently the deputy director at the bureau, very well, he's next to become

the acting director of the bureau. that is of course if president elect donald trump doesn't decide to fire him and appoint his own acting director, which he has the power to do. it would have to be someone that has been senate confirmed but it could be from anyone in government -- from anywhere in government. >> thank you. wray's resignation comes as patel met with senators to gain support for his nomination to the lead the fbi. he is one of several nominees on the hill today. lisa desjardins joins us now from the capital. has this news changed the momentum? >> it certainly does not hurt. it means that there will be a new fbi director. this was pretty much known that trump was going to replace christopher wray. as you can see, patel was on the hill. this was him meeting with some of the senators. now he has had a much more

disciplined approach, saying today for example that he knows he has to earn senators trust. now, that is different than the tone he is taken in the past. for example in media appearances where he has promoted conspiracy theories including the false idea that the 2020 election wasr rigged. he also said he wants to come after members of the media. but as a different tone he has on capitol hill and he is earning support of important senators like john cornyn of texas, who says he is someone he thinks he can back. now patel is trying to create an image of someone who is focused on the job and wally's having a good week, senators know this is a very important job, and they are ready for these hearings that we now expect. >> we know including the -- help us understand how the other nominees are doing right now. >> you almost cannot walk down

any hallway without running into as i did accidentally another nominee for a cabinet post. but let's talk about pete haig said. he had a critical meeting with senator susan collins of maine. he spoke to the press shortly after talking with her. >> i'm certainly not, assume anything about where the senator stance. this is a process. that we respect and appreciate. and we hope through time, overall, when we get to that committee and to the floor, that we can earn her support. it is about earning support in this process and ongoing conversations. >> you may have spotted a thing, earning support, respecting the process. this is the mantra we are seeing for these trump nominations, as for susan collins, she has broken with the former president trump in the past. she is also a pro-military member of the senate, a defense hawk. she had a very thorough discussion with hegseth.

>> we had a good discussion. i am not going to go into every question i asked, although i asked virtually every question on to the sun. >> did you present on the allegations? -- pressed him on the allegations? >> i pressed him on military issues as well as the allegations against him. so, i don't think there was anything that we did not cover. >> those allegations include a criminal report of sex assault in california years ago. there were no charges filed, but i asked senator collins which you like to hear from a woman, the accuser who reports are she is under a nondisclosure agreement. susan collins said, she would like to hear from her. one other note about collins. she said that hegseth told her regarding women in combat, he is now more open to that. and a quick look at all of these nominees on the hill.

many many, and in general, the nominees for trump this week they had a good week on the hill. >> we also know you're tracking all the other -- on capitol hill, congress has a lot to do before they are aiming to take recess at the end of next week. including a major defense spending bill. where does that stand now? >> the national defense authorization act, key bill, it passed through the house tonight. this is what is in it. some important things, a 4.5% raise for all service members and look at this -- 14.5% pay raise for the most junior enlisted service members. food assistance. and there are cultural items as well. a compromise with republicans from democrats that would ban military coverage and health care treatment for transgender military kids. there is some debate over which treatment that would entail. for that pay raise, i want to say that it would be from $24,000 to 27,000. >> what about government funding

scheduled to run out next week? >> we expect we will have a continuing resolution to announce this weekend and i want to raise one other thing. something that happened last night. there was a member of the house, nancy mace, republican from south carolina who says that she had an incident in which, while she was shaking hands with someone after a foster care event, she says she was accosted. the person was arrested for assault. this person is known as a foster youth advocate. the police report indicates this with a handshake, which was too aggressive for the foster youth advocate. they say those around her, witnesses say it was an enthusiastic handshake. the advocate did bring up trans youth, which is something nancy mace has opposed. >> lisa, thank you. >> welcome.

>> now to syria. the new leader vowed to create unity and hold to account the people that facilitated assad's rule, adding to the unease of many minorities including u.s. partners in the fight against isis who today had to give up part won territory. -- had to give up hard won territory. >> every faction trying to seize as much power as possible. today they welcomed the rebel group that led syria's lit takeover group. the city has been controlled by the u.s.-backed kurdish syrian democratic forces. those forces also lost control of northern syria. this time with the turkish backed syrian national army.

the map of syria continues to be redrawn. the coalition that controls the capital and the west and the syrian national army are pushing against the kurds in yellow. a u.s. official tells pbs news hour the u.s. negotiating with kurds to hand over both cities. the u.s. priority contents to be ensuring that kurds can help contain pockets of isis. meanwhile in the south, israel has seized territory that has been demilitarized for 50 years. syria's unease is felt among its minorities. in the heartland today sunni rebels torch the grave of assad, the father of bashar assad, the two ruled syria for more than half a century. their brutality today is still being uncovered. outside this damascus morgue, family so for news from relatives who long ago

disappeared. mostly they found horror. bodies burned beyond recognition by assad's industrial punishment of its perceived enemies, including her sons. >> i lost my sons in 2013. i have been submitting request to the military police but they keep telling me they do not have them. since 2013, i have not seen them nor do i know their fate. bring back my sons. >> today the country's de facto leader vowed to hold former members of assad's regime accountable for he said "we call on nations to hand over to us wherever those criminals have escaped to to subject them to justice." some mobs are taking justice into their own hands. across syria, social media videos show rebel factions killing assad officers

reportedly responsible for decades of torture. but today, for the victors, for those who feel free in post assad's syria, the capital was a picture of peace, even if the scars of war are nearby. the interim prime minister vowed to create unity. that is not guaranteed, but in the market in the town square, there is a feeling of freedom. i'm nick schifrin. >> the seachange towards hope in syria over the last two weeks has been tampered with a grim accounting of the last 14 years of war, not to mention the more than half a century of authoritarian rule under the assad family. we have two teams there now. we will have more reporting from around the country in the coming days. tonight, i am joined by special correspondent layla malala allen. western journalists have largely been banned from entering syria

for years now but you did manage to get in under cover last year. what has changed now, and what is them -- has the mood been like in damascus? >> it's like night and day. i can't tell you what is like to walk the streets here and have people freely running up to sing, take my picture. let me tell you what i think. for those of us who reported on syria, it was always about fear, secrecy, looking over your shoulder for the secret police, terrified about keeping your contacts safe, those people brave enough to speak out. most people did not. that mood is so different now. people are keen to share their views and what is so clear is that so many assad people who said they supported the regime, they really did not. the number of people out on the streets telling the stories of the horrific experiences they have endured, not just during --assad's regime but his father as well. there is so much joy about that

coming into damascus, the streets were full of people holding their children in the air, celebrating, beeping horns, holding the revolutionary guard back, saying syria is for everyone, this country is free. we are seeing moves towards trying to reintegrate the country that has been so split in recent years. and of course the issue there was that syria is diverse but it is not sectarian and assad made it so because he told people in minorities that the sunnis, that isis will come and kill you and he scared them. that is how we stayed in power. another man said, that is not troop you look at these wonderful people who have liberated us. thus far, hgs are loudly saying, look we -- they don't have to dress the way that we would in our communities. also trying to integrate people from the northwest. today we were at a phone shop and for the first time,

they could produce their idlib id's. just a few examples. >> you mentioned that joy. we are watching the scenes of joy unfold. where there is so much uncertainty ahead. what are the biggest challenges now facing both syria as a country and its people in the coming days and months ahead? >> there are, of course, so many challenges. the most immediate being getting this country up and running again. first, the economy has been in dire straits for years. because of the sanctions imposed on syria. no one has been able to rebuild their homes. when i was here last year, i traveled across the regime held area and many of the buildings are still bombed and infrastructure not working. of course here in the last few days, since the rebels swept through damascus, services -- no phone signal, internet, water and electricity and that is because so many of those services are locked into the government. they are quite a change that. it will not last that long.

and across the country, there are so many issues because the country has been divided for so long. and northwest where the rebels live, even though many people now can return to their homes in damascus, so many of their homes have been destroyed by russian airstrikes and regime shelling that they did not have a place to go to. that will be a process. they try to get kids back ■into school, trying to make a deal with a kurds who are very afraid this chaos could lead to isis rising up in the desert because that is an opportunity for them. and then come of course, the fear over what hts was to do, they are making a noise about liberal syria for everyone. will we see a move towards a more islamist structure? people are waiting to see somebody. those that were lowered to the regime, fleeing and trying to get out of the country. the border is full of people trying to escape because they do not trust the amnesty they've declared, for the army saying it was not their fault. many fears in this country.

many hopes as well for a free syria. but what they need is investment and support. please, western powers, help us while we can rebuild this country. and most immediately, so much joy of this liberation but so much loss of people across the country find their homes destroyed, find family members they hoped might be in jails or other parts of syria dead or forgotten forever. it is mixed feelings but much hope that perhaps the syrian people have dreamed of for 14 years of civil war. >> that is our special correspondent reporting from damascus, syria. thank you. >> i'm stephanie sy with news hour west. fire crews in malibu, california, are working to contain a wind driven wildfire that exploded in size overnight. in malibu, the night sky was bright orange.

strong winds fanned the franklin fire is a burn for a second night along a stretch of coast 30 miles west of los angeles. the flames inching towards roads, engulfing cars and turning palm trees into tender. >> the franklin fire has burned approximately 3900 acres and is .7% contained this is a 39% increase in acreage overnight. >> today, officials said weather conditions appears to improve, giving 1500 firefighters a chance to stop the rapid spread. still, the fire escorts a handful of structures, and remains a threat to thousands more. celebrities like cher and dick van dyck evacuated their homes, as well as residents who describe the blaze something out of hollywood, come to life. >> last night it felt like a

movie because the images i was seeing was like the craziest looking fire, i ever saw in my life and the smell of the smoke, seeing palm trees i've seen for 10 years, just lit. like a candle. >> nestled in the hills come along the fire's path, pepperdine, home to some. threethousand students . final exams were interrupted by shelter-in-place order. >> we just saw the flames coming up over the hill. and that first it was about, not a problem. the wind was not in our direction and i think about maybe five minutes later there were like, it is in our direction. >> last night we were here through the thick of it. it was definitely scary at some points. did not really sleep much. >> the university reported little to no damage to structures on campus. evacuation centers have opened up across the region. this one set up by the red cross offers a refuge for anyone and any pet.

workers say about 12 families and a few goats have checked in. >> it is important that people evacuate when they are told to. their animals are welcome because also a lot of people want to -- will not evacuate because of their animals. >> malibu is no stranger to major fires, coastal winds and often dry terrain make it one of the most fire prone areas in southern california. last night, the mayor gave words of assurance. >> it is going to be a while before he goes back. but that is the way it is in malibu, it burns, comes back and we are resilient and strong. >> the cause of this fire is still unknown. no fatalities have been reported. and compared to blazes of the past, property damage has been minimal. >> in the day's other headlines, the grocery chain albertsons has officially terminated its multibillion-dollar merger with rival kroger and is now suing its competitor. this comes a day after two judges halted the deal. albertsons is now seeking one built -- billions of dollars in

damage is accusing kroger of failing to follow through on its commitments to the merger. on capitol hill, outgoing secretary of state antony blinken defended the biden administration's handling of the 2021 u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. appearing before the republican led house foreign affairs committee, he argued that the chaos was due to the 2020 deal then president trump reached with the taliban. but republican lawmakers insisted that it was the biden administration that was to blame. a suicide bombing at kabul airport killed 13 u.s. service members and nearly 200 afghans in the final days of the withdrawal. blinken opened his testimony by turning and apologizing to family members of those lost during the operation. >> to the extent president biden faced a choice, it was between ending the war, or escalating it. in the three years since the end of our country's longest war, all of us, including myself,

have wrestled with what we could have done differently, during that period and over the preceding two decades. >> a report published last year faulted both of the trump and biden administration's for insufficient planning surrounding the withdrawal. today's hearing comes as a suicide blast in the afghan capital kabul killed the taliban's minister for refugees. a long with at least six others. the taliban has blamed the islamic state group for the attack. palestinian officials say that multiple israeli strikes on the gaza strip killed 29 people. 19 of those were killed in a home where displaced people were sheltering in a northern town near the border with israel. a separate strike hit this house in a refugee camp killing at least seven people. palestinians there woke up to the wreckage. >> we were sleeping. we did not hear the sound at all.

suddenly i found myself waking up with this. i saw the rubble all over me and the children. as i stepped outside, i saw the people, bodies everywhere. blood and lims scattering among the trees. >> the united nations says that a to northern gaza has been largely blocked for around two months. officials say that has left as many as 75,000 palestinians without access to food, water, electricity or health care. officials in south korea say the country's former defense minister tried to take his own life after his arrest over last week's declaration of martial law. they say correctional officers at a detention center in seoul stopped kim from doing so. he remains in stable condition. kim had been accused of recommending that president yoon suk yeol impose martial law and advised him to send in troops to prevent law makers from voting. separately, yoon's office resisted in attempt to search his office put officers had been dispatched to look for evidence

related to his role in last week's events. today yoon defended martial law as a legal move to protect democracy. and soccer's international governing body fifa announce the host nations for two upcoming men's world cups. one of the selections came with controversy. >> saudi arabia. >> saudi arabia will be tournament host in 2034, the applause at the virtual event were a formality as the country ran uncontested. human rights groups criticized today's decision. fifa announce that portugal, spain and morocco will cohost the tournament in 2030. and a legendary nfl coach bill belichick will become the new head coach at the university of north carolina. bill belichick is an eight time super bowl champion, he 26 of those wins. this will be his first time

coaching at the college level. his five-year contract needs to be approved by the board of trustees. still to come on the newshour, police work to link evidence at the murder scene of united health care ceo to the suspect in custody. a panel a political analyst lay out their hopes and concerns following the presidential election. and author brian stevenson discusses inequities in the criminal justice system on the tenth anniversary of his groundbreaking book. ♪ >> this is "pbs newshour." from the david m. rubenstein studio at weta in washington and in the west at the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. >> police today's said fingerprints and shell casings collected at the scene of last week's murder of united health care ceo brian thompson are directly connected to their prime suspect luigi mangione.

the figure prince -- the fingerprints match the gun. to break down the latest i am joined in new york. william, we have new evidence linking the alleged shooter to the crime. police also say they are in possession of some notes written by him. what kind of insight is that giving us and what have right. police have at least two different pieces of writing from the suspect. what is a notebook that is allegedly full of planning details. and the other is what people are calling his manifesto. a 260 word handwritten document where reportedly he takes credit and claims responsibility for this killing. now, the police have not released at that manifesto. it its entirety. one journalist claims to have a copy of it and he's posted it on his website. it is now floating all over the internet.

but what we know from police sources, details of that, is that the suspect describes the killing as a" symbolic takedown." and expresses his theory in anger at the health care industry. and that is what has resonated with so many people who want to look past the grisly murder and still side with him in their complaints as far as health insurance is run in this country. the notebook the police have described some of the planning process, reportedly, that he was going to go after an as yet unnamed health care ceo at a meeting and that would be a targeted precise and it would, doesn't risk innocence, which apparently the suspect thought about using a bomb but decided that might injure too many other people he did not want to target. but for right now the suspect is still in custody in pennsylvania.

he is fighting extradition where he would come to new york city to face that serious murder charge. >> william, given that ryan thompson -- brian thompson, the 50-year-old father of two was a health insurance executive, there've been some making the connection between that, the work that he did, and also the reporting around the suspect in this case who allegedly had a serious back injury and some back pain he was dealing with. what we know about that connection? >> that's right. for a long time, the suspect wrote on reddit about his back problems, it started in his 20's, how we suffered an injury, surfing in hawaii that made it worse. how we had spinal surgery to try to address it. all those writings have been taken down but journalist have read some archived versions of them. in those writings, there is no indication of violent or ill intent towards health care workers or the industry in general. but, again, documents his frustration with that system more broadly. >> there is another report in

detail in the suspect's case, and that is that he once reportedly expressed admiration for ted kaczynski, the man known as the unabomber. what should we know about that? >> this suspect apparently posted a lot of book reviews on the website called good reads. and, among them, was him giving four stars to ted kaczynski, the unabomber's manifesto. for people who are old enough to remember, ted kaczynski sent mail bombs all around the country, murdered three people and hurt dozens of others, but wanted those attacks to draw attention to his manifesto which was the critique of industrialization and the tech revolution that we were living through. and that is why some police officials believe that this suspect might have been inspired by kaczynski, who as i'm saying, used violence to draw attention to his political beliefs. >> that is william brangham with the latest on the killing of that united health care ceo.

william, thank you. >> thanks, amna. ♪ >> for the past two years, judy woodruff has been exploring the deep divisions we see playing out every day in the country. as we wrap up the year, she recently sat down with a panel of noted thinkers to talk through their concerns and their hopes following the election. it is part of her ongoing series, america at a crossroads. >> we met last week at the lincoln cottage in washington, d.c., a place we have returned to throughout air series. in the room where the 16th president drafted the emancipation proclamation. joining the were former federal appellate judge michael ludi, one of the nation leading conservatives, heather coxe richardson, historian at boston

college, and author on some stack of the daily letters from an american. and theodore johnson, contributing columnist for the washington post and retired naval officer. i began by asking them what they thought the american people were saying in this most recent election. >> america has come to the crossroads now. this was the most transparent president and presidency in american history. americans literally knew everything there was to know about donald trump. and he succeeded in convincing millions upon millions of americans that this was just another presidential election where both candidates should be considered equally as if the one had never been president before. >> i think most americans simply

were saying they did not like the high prices that came after the coronavirus pandemic. and what they're going to get is something very different than they thought they wanted. so, for example we know the people say they paid no attention at all to political news went 19 points for donald trump. people who were informed of what was really happening with crime and with the economy and with immigration went 2-1 to kamala harris. those people that were misinformed went 3-1 for donald trump. so we are facing i think the crisis, the judge identifies of american democracy, but we are doing so in the midst of a different kind of crisis which is a disinformation crisis. >> ted johnson, you wrote right after the election that you thought democracy had held. >> i think it held because we had a free and fair election. and the popular vote winner is going to win the electoral college and the system operated in the exactly the way it was

set to operate. the one flaw in the system from the founder's perspective is the founders always suspected that the electoral college and representatives would ensure that people of ill character never got this far peer to ensure the voice of the people were filtered through folks that put justice first, who are patriots and put the country above their own partisan and selfish concerns, and that just has never panned out in american history. and it certainly has not recently. i also say that americans told us that they are willing to be a little transactional with their vote for president instead of suggesting that the person they vote for is a civic exemplar or hero of sorts. instead saying, maybe this person's character is flawed or faulty. >> do you believe we still have a strong democracy in this country? >> we only know that our democracy held because donald trump won the vote. going into the election, he was unapologetic about the fact that

he is -- if he did lose the vote that he would challenge that vote in the same way he had done in 2020. donald trump and the republican party essentially held america political hostage. by threatening to overturn this election if donald trump lost. that's not a free and fair election. >> our democracy is reeling but it is not yet disintegrated. i'm very concerned about the incoming trump administration and the attempts to install what people are calling henchmen now instead of loyalists in crucial positions. but, i'm not ready to concede that it's gone because the other side is the organization that you see going on among people who are now recognizing that our country, our way of life and our dreams are on the line right now in a way they have not been

since the 1890's or 1850's. and seemingly being willing to take up the torch to carry that forward. in the past, we have managed to do it. i'm a little concerned about whether we will do it now. >> what we have been dealing with is a very divided country. for the last, several years ted johnson. has this election made that worse? >> it certainly has not improved it. " -- we will see if there is an evolution or a devolution of our democracy. our constitutional democracy was ok with slavery. at the founding of the country. our constitutional democracy was ok with disenfranchising women until 100 years ago. our democracy was ok with keeping immigrants from asia, from central and south america, from parts of europe like ireland and other places, folks that did not have property, out of democracy. nothing has happened in the last month to our democracy that is

worse than what is happened in the past. and if this is the moment that breaks the democracy, we will -- we are not the people that earned the right to keep it. my sense of it is, we are just as good as the generations before us, and now it is our turn to protect and defend democracy. which always is in need of protection and defense. >> we will be more divided than even we have been in the past four years. and you can rest assured that the present republican party will take that with as validation and vindication of the policies, if you will, of division and divisiveness that they have thrust upon the american people. >> the division of the american people was a very deliberate political project from the 195'' s onward, and it has paid in enormous dividends for

certain politicians but the majority of americans have always liked the liberal consensus of the post-world war ii years, and they still do. if you look at the down ballot races in 2024, people voted to protect abortion rights, for the protection of minimum wage, and they voted for a lot of things the democrats were the ones embracing. in fact, whether you are republican or democrat, most people believe in a government that does the basic things of, of regulation of business, protection of the basic social safety net, infrastructure and the protection of civil rights and those people in the middle should hang together against the extremists on the outside. >> are you saying that we, the politicians have been trying to divide the american people? >> i am. ted johnson agrees. >> i was recently in north carolina. at a high school friend told me that they didn't like either of the candidates because both of them make the other out to be worse they are and make problems

out to be worse of the reports so neither could be trusted to either speak honestly about what the problems were and causing it, or what the fixes were and who could accomplish it. >> where do you cs headed? -- see us headed? >> we need to protect american institutions. but in this moment, we need to look at the right and recognize that they are serving up to their voters a fiction that shakes those people's lives. and to the degree that we all can insist on actual fact based reality and forming our policies, will go a long way to healing those divisions and to recognizing that effect most of us do agree that we are somewhere in the middle on these big questions, and that solving them is actually not that difficult once you can agree on the problem. >> i feel pretty good about democracy. when i say that, i mean in terms of people having a democracy that is accessible. a republic, however, is in

tatters. and so, the electoral college needs reform or replacement or abolishing, something. gerrymandering needs to be out there -- out the window and gerrymandering out the window. americans need to turn away from d.c. in towards their communities, whatever the future looks like, i promise you the answer is in local america and not in the nation's capital. turn away from that stuff and turned towards like the soccer teams or the neighborhoods, or the churches, the school systems, etc. and learn how to work together in your community, and that will model the kind of democratic republic for the nation. >> the former president bent the institutions of democracy and law arguably to the breaking point. those institutions yielded to his will. that was in the past four to eight years. but he campaigned on revenge..

revenge against his political opponents and avenge meant of these very institutions of democracy and law who he told t he american people had failed him and them. in my view, they elected him because they wanted done what he said he would do. now he is going to do that. there is nothing that can stop him. >> i'm a historian. i always make the point that the future is not written. we don't know what is going to happen. and with as many people still having a voice in our way our life, if not necessarily in our voting world, because in fact of free and fair may be because of course there is a voter suppression in a lot of places, so this really is a test of who we are, not just who our worst leaders are but who we are. do i believe we can do it?i belo

believe we can do it or we have guaranteed we cannot. >> on that note, thank you. ♪ >> brian stevenson, the prominent lawyer and executive director of the equal justice initiative, has blazed a trail representing the poor, the wrongly convicted, and those on death row. he really sat down with geoff bennett to discuss his career and the rerelease of his best-selling book " just mercy," a story of justice and redemption. >> brian stephenson, thanks for being with us. "just mercy" became a new york times bestseller. it was adapted into a film starring michael b jordan. lots of acclaim and attention. how has a significantly changed the criminal justice system, or the public's understanding of

the system in the decades since its release? >> i've been really encouraged by what is happened over the last 10 years. when i started doing this work 40 years ago, there were very few organizations and very few resources available to people who were in jail and prison, wrongly convicted, people condemned to die. and that seemed to be not changing, but in the last 20 years i will say but certainly in the last 10 years, that has shifted enormously. we had eight states abolished the death penalty. the rates of incarceration have dropped. we are no longer seeing that steady increase that we saw during the last decades of the 20th century. we've seen some real significant reforms, most of the young people that i wrote about in just mercy who were condemned to die in prison when they were 13 and 14 have been released. they are now out. i have been really encouraged by the success we have seen over the last decade, but moreso by the number of people who are now engaged on these issues, on

campuses and policy spaces. and legislatures. >> over incarceration is something that there is a broad perspective of alignment on that we should be doing better. than what we have done over the last half-century. that has been really encouraging. >> you write the power of just mercy is that it belongs to the undeserving. it is when mercy is least expected that it is most potent. tell me more. >> i've had the great privilege of standing next to condemned people, people who are marginalized, people hated or despised and accused of really upsetting crimes. what i've learned is that when you stand next to people who are condemned and hated, it can sometimes harness the power of grace and mercy and show the world something better than just condemnation. we've had a legal system for a long time that treat you better if you are rich and guilty than if you are and innocent. and we have not been concerned about changing that because we

have just ignored this populati i think by highlightine people and the stories that has shifted, and when you make the kind of mistakes that we have made. this year we saw the 200th person exonerated after being sentenced to death. and that is a really startling and troubling statistic for every eight people we executed we have now identified one innocent person on death row. but if we do not think in a compassionate and caring way about these communities, these people, these institutions, we will be indifferent to a lot of cruelty. a lot of barbarity, a lot of unjust punishment. and so, for me, invoking mercy and invoking grace, invoking this idea that the criminal justice system is not just about the people we are prosecuting. it is also about us. what kind of society we live in, what community we create. what we tolerate injustice and inequality. >> there are some 40 people on federal death row, including the

gunman who killed those nine parishioners in charleston, south carolina, the surviving boston marathon bomber, the attacker who gone down 11 people at a pittsburgh synagogue. why should any of those people be shown mercy? why should any be spared the death penalty given the gravity and intentionality of their crimes? >> well, it's largely because we don't need to execute people to show our concern, our outrage about violent crimes. you know, if all those folks have their death sentence commuted, they will be serving death in prison sentences. they are going to die in prison. it is a really extreme punishment. and most of the democratic world, life imprisonment is the most severe punishment you can impose. and so, i don't think it is really about sparing people or giving people a break. they are going to be held accountable in a harsh way. it is also true that many of those folks on the row have been

unfairly prosecuted. there are problems with the way in which we sometimes go about getting these convictions and sentences, even many of the victims in the charleston case did not want dylan roof to be sentenced to death and yet we pushed forward. and now we are moving into an era where the supreme court has seemed to largely abandon its oversight role. so, i think there are multiple reasons for why it would be appropriate, and i think positive to say, we are not going to kill people who we do not have to kill. we're going to be -- they will be condemned to prison and they will die under incarcerations. we do not have to kill them. >> we need a new era of truth and justice. what might that look like? >> it will be looking to better understand the history that has created so much inequality and injustice. we have never taken the time in this country to confront what happened to indigenous people when europeans came to this continent. we have never really reckons

with the legacy of slavery. most people don't know that there were 10 million black people enslaved in this country. they do not know the details of all of that abuse. we have not talked very much about the collapse of reconstruction and how black people were disenfranchised for a century. how thousands of black people were pulled out of their homes and beaten and drowned and tortured on courthouse lawns in lynching. we understand what jim crow was, but we do not actually understand the harm that decades of exclusion and humiliation that was born in a community where black children could not attend the public schools. i saw those assigned spared my parents had to navigate the humiliation of jim crow. and no signs were not directions. they created real injuries and we have not talked about those injuries. and we have not really committed to repairing the harm. the first thing that truth and justice requires is that we become more informed about the truth of our history. not because we want to punish people. when i talk about slavery and

lynching and segregation, i have no interest in punishing america or people who were implicated in that. my interest is liberation. i actually think there is something that feels more like freedom, more like equality, more like justice. and it is waiting for us but we are being constrained by our unwillingness to talk honestly about the burden of this past, which i think has created toxins in the air. it is like a pollution everywhere in this country. because we have not been honest about this history. i think that truth telling can truly set us free. >> brian stevenson, the book is "just mercy, 10 years after its initial release. always a pleasure to speak with you. >> you, too, thanks. ♪ >> and before we go we have a passing of note to share. someone whose name you may not

know but whose work you have seen frequently. for more than 40 years, bill hennessey captured history with his sketchbook. his work often went where cameras could not, offering the first draft of high profile legal moments from iran contra, to the clinton impeachment, trials at guantánamo bay, and countless arguments at the u.s. supreme court. he spoke to the news hour in 2009 about how he approached his work. >> i try to delve it deeper, i look for the details, i look for something that will give it more. i find myself as much a journalist in that regard, looking for that special angle on it, on the visual that will help them that much more. i certainly came into this as an artist. but i think i've had a unique opportunity to learn journalism from the people who actually, who i worked with. both the photojournalists, and the written journalists, that

they have helped me understand my purpose and my responsibility in being, you know, telling the story accurately and truthfully, honestly and responsibly as you can. >> bill hennessey died on monday. it was his 67th birthday. and that is the news hour for tonight. on behalf of the entire news hour team, thank you for joining us. >> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by -- >> the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions and friends of the newshour including jim and nancy biltner and the robert and virginia schiller foundation. the ford foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide. funding for america at a crossroads was provided by --

and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. ♪ ♪ this program was made possible by the corporation for bob burke public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ >> this is pbs news hour west from the david and rubenstein studio at w eta in washington and from our bureau at the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university.

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