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nicole: at bdo i feel like a true individual, people value me for me, they care about what i want, my needs, my career path, i matter here. announcer: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation, pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. announcer: and now, "bbc news" >> hello, welcome to "the context" with me, caitriona perry. >> we must have only the highest standards for those who work. the obama standards from very mediocre at best to extraordinary and then when i left office and biden took over,

he changed them back, the faa hiring people with severe intellectual and psychiatric disabilities. that is amazing. today i'm also signing an executive order to instruct the departments of defense and homeland security to begin preparing the 30,000-person migrant facility at guantanamo bay. most people don't even know about it. the release of deepseek ai from nai chinese company should be a wake-up call for our industries that we need to be laser focused on competing to win because we have the greatest scientists in the world. catriona: hello and welcome to "the context" with me caitriona perry. we are focusing on trump's second term and we are at the end of president trump's second

week in office although he's been working so hard, it feels like a lot more than that. tonight throughout the program, will be reflecting on how it's gone and what it might tell us about his next four years in office. numerous executive orders have been signed to add to the 33 from last week as well as robust speeches and press conferences. we were promised it would be fast and furious and fast and furious we have. with me tonight to discuss all of this, we have our panel, democratic strategist kelly hyman, former prosecutor joe marino. thank you for being with us. the big issue of course this week with the tragic air crash here in washington, d.c., and it gave president trump the first big crisis of the second term in office. i want to get a quick reaction from both of you. we will talk more later about how you think he handled that first big crisis, that big challenge. what do you think, joe? joe: thank you.

i have to say, in general terms, we have seen this time around a calmer more restrained donald trump but he doesn't do tragedy well. i cringed at the press conference yesterday. he started off ok, showing appropriate sorrow to the victims, moment of silence, but when he started to get into that diatribe of dei and how president obama in president biden lowered the standards at the faa, he might believe that, and it might be true, but it was not the time and place. he will turn people off who would substantively agree with him but are so repelled by his approach, it might not be a winning strategy. catriona: we will talk about those policies later as well. just to get your first thoughts, kelly, how do you think he has handled this tragedy? kelly: a president should unite the country especially with such a horrific tragedy. my thoughts go out to the family members.

thank you to our first responders there as well. rather than pointing blame at the democrats or some type of hiring, to wait until there is substantial evidence that comes in before making critical decisions. we just got the black box. next 20 hours will be key -- 24 hours will be key to shedding light. these investigations take time, potentially over a year. when you rush to conclusions and speculate, you don't do the american people and our allies abroad any favors. catriona: we have a full hour, lots to talk about. president trump giving us lots of subject matter as well because he has been carrying on that ferocious pace of action this week, as well. just before we came on air, the white house confirming the trump administration says it will proceed with the tariffs that president trump had threatened against america's three biggest trading partners, and they will

come into effect from tomorrow. it is one of the big pledges that he made during the election campaign, and just a few moments ago in the last hour, press secretary caroline levitt said that president trump would impose a tax of 25% on imports from mexico and canada, 10% on imports from china. but she declined to say whether there would be any exemptions. >> i was just with the president in the oval office and i can confirm that tomorrow the february 1 deadline, that president trump put into place in a statement several weeks ago continues. the president will be implementing tomorrow a 25% tariff on mexico, 25 percent on canada, and a 10% tariff on china for the illegal fentanyl they have sourced and allowed to distribute into our country which has killed tens of millions of americans. these are promises made,

promises kept by the president. catriona: let's put all of this into context, what these tariffs will look like, what impact they will have. we are joined by our business correspondent in new york. thank you for being with us. there was some reporting earlier that actually these tariffs wouldn't come into effect in march but a very firm view from the white house as we just heard, they will start tomorrow. what is that going to look like, how will these be implemented? ritika: certainly right, a lot of whiplash around this news. there is still a lot of uncertainty around it. many say this is trump the negotiator coming out. he could very well put a 25% levy on canada and mexico and the 10% levy on china tomorrow but he could also phase in some of those higher duties on a monthly basis. even if the announcement is tomorrow, there is still going to be time taken to actually

implement those tariffs. it does give those countries some time to respond or even ever at the tariffs. trump could also give specific reprieves to industries, whether energy or autos. for investors, that could suggest a softening in what has been harsh rhetoric, warnings. the plan for china and europe still remains a wildcard. of course there is a risk of a tit-for-tat, retaliation from these countries, what could amount to a global trade war. catriona: how have the markets reacted to the news so far? that very definite word from the white house press secretary. ritika: the s&p 500 reversed any gains it had in the session today, trading in the red. a lot of whiplash, fast-changing news. now they say they will be implementing tariffs tomorrow. the dollar rose on the back of this while stocks fell. industries from your chipmakers

to your miners, auto industry, they will likely have a big impact. it's a risky gamble. the u.s. imports so many of its goods from canada, mexico, china, you think about the auto industry. the typical car could have a price increase of $3000 as a result. that could devastate the industry. when it comes to the issue of gasoline prices, canada is the biggest source of foreign oil in the u.s., we import some 4 million barrels a day. and food prices, the u.s. importing everything from beer to avocados from mexico, so we could see prices rise on the back of this. there is a lot of nervousness in the markets. catriona: thank you for bringing us all of that information. of course, you can keep a that with our business team the rest of the day. let's bring back our panel.

joe, this is something president trump pledged a long time on the campaign trail, saying tariffs is the most beautiful word in the english language, that he would be the tariff king. is he doing some brakeman ship before immigration before these come into force? joe: probably. as a negotiator, he is a bit of a bully. in the arsenal of what a president has to yield, tariffs are one of the easiest. he doesn't have to go to congress come to issue regulations that take times. he can issue tariffs at various levels and use them as a strong bargaining chip. i think there is the concern that these will only add to prices but i question whether or not he actually intends to impose them, or for very long. there are ways to get to get things that we want from other countries. donald trump has determined that

he will use these at least as a threat. catriona: kelly, will we see retaliatory measures from canada, mexico? we have not heard anything yet but this just happening in the last half-hour. kelly: absolutely we could potentially anticipate tariffs back on us. if we have to think about, economists have said tariffs harm the american people. from an economic standpoint, could really hurt the u.s. economy. not only our economy but our allies out there, as well. hopefully, it is just potentially putting it out there and not going to use it. ultimately if he does, he will really hurt economically the american people, and they are going to pay the price. we, the americans, are going to pay the price at the register, also pay the price in regards to getting gas, cars. we are going to be the ones that

will be harmed because of these tariffs. catriona: as we are talking, we can see the live counter from what is happening on the new york stock exchange as ritika was describing, a selloff there. you can see where the green turns to red. that was the exact moment the white house press secretary confirmed these tariffs would come into force tomorrow. it is in the gift of the president to do this, use it as a tool of foreign policy. we saw out to great effect last week with the colombian president. joe: we did, but keep in mind, when it comes to the american electorate, immigration, foreign policy, social policy, they are all important, but it is the economy. the number one issue that elected donald trump this time, it was the price of groceries, gasoline. if he can manage to solve or at least addressed to some degree, he will be a hero.

if he doesn't, he will be a failed president. that is the number one issue. whether it is tariffs, spending, cutting back the federal workforce, that is what he will be ultimately judged on. whether these are useful or not we will see. but that has to be the number one issue that he has to be focused on in terms of determining his success. catriona: that is the issue that is possibly the most difficult for the president to tackle. it is not something you can do with a stroke of a pen. market economics, private sector companies involved, as well. kelly: different things involved but definitely the tariffs will harm the economy and that is something that will really hurt the economy. presidents can do certain things but ultimately the tariffs, in the end, if it happens, the american people will be harmed. catriona: we will take a pause therefore the moment. stay with us because we will be talking more about the airplane

crash, as well. around the world and across the u.k., this is bbc news. ♪

catriona: welcome back. you are watching "the context." we are talking about everything that president has -- president trump has been doing this week, just his second week in office, but he has faith an extraordinary time of tragedy, dealing with that washington crash between a passenger jet and military helicopter. on thursday, he stood before the white house press cameras and said the country was in mo urning, as he described an hour of anguish for the nation, pay tribute to the victims, and then speculated, without evidence, that the collision was caused by diversity policies because of, as he called it, unqualified people were hired as air traffic controllers.

yet another reminder of how his presidency will be very different. pres. trump: the faa's diversity push includes hiring people with severe intellectual and psychiatric disabilities. that is amazing. then it says f.a.a. says people with severe disabilities are most underrepresented segment of the workforce and they want them in, and they can be air traffic controllers. i don't think so. >> trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash? pres. trump: because i have common sense, ok? unfortunately a lot of people don't. catriona: ok, well, let's bring in someone who has a lot of knowledge and experience with these policies. ambassador gina abercrombie, former chief diversity equity and inclusion officer at the department of state. lovely to have you back on. we will get to the comments that

president trump made in a moment, but for people who may not be familiar with american dei policies as they are known, explain briefly why they were put in place in the first instance. >> thank you so much, katrina. they were put in place because statistically, and historically, we have policies, procedures, habits in place that have impeded the normal advancement and inclusion of women and minorities in the workforce, in many different aspects of the workforce. it is against the law to hire anyone on the basis of a protected clash, -- class. gender, race, sex, it's in a rut. that is against the law. diversity, equity, and inclusion measures have never done that. when anyone says a diversity hire, they should be pressed, what are they talking about?

they will not be able to identify any. diversity, equity, and inclusion was to forward equal treatment in the workplace, equal access, equal opportunity. because people have biases, expectations perhaps of what diplomats look like. european heritage men. reality. over 80% of the senior positions in the department of state are held by those of european heritage, white americans. over 60% held by men, even though women are more than 50% of the population. statistically, there are things we can get after, not making people hire, but ensuring everyone had access to pursue to the best of their abilities their professional advancements. catriona: of course, if you were still in your position today, you have -- would have been put on administrative leave last week based on one of those executive orders president trump

signed. he specifically named getting rid of chief diversity officer is in federal departments. one of the reasons that he and people who support this initiative say, they feel that people get jobs because, as the president would say, how they look, and not their qualifications. was there any evidence of that? gina: no, there is not. this is an indication of up is down. the whole point of diversity, equity, inclusion is to prevent that. let me give you an example. one of the changes made at the department was to demand that senior positions be advertised and competed. until 2020 two, deputies and secretary positions were only done by word-of-mouth, if someone knew you, if you were in the in crowd as it were, somebody likes to work with you, a we do even though the position was available.

that often kept at women and minorities because they were not in those in crowds. when we advertise those positions and had people compete for them on the basis of merit, that insured, number one, it was a great inclusion, accessibility move, but it also insured merit was truly in place. my understanding is that has been overturned. that hurts everybody. that means clearly the best candidate may not have been selected because the best candidate didn't even know to put themselves forward. when we made the change, i was pleased that the first recipient who found a job that way, by having it advertised, was a white male. i talked about that, to ensure people understood the policies were good for everyone. catriona: so when you hear the president say what he said yesterday about specifically those in the aviation sector about air traffic controllers, that it has led to a decline in

standards, he basically said it was his view that may have led to this awful, awful tragedy, what were you thinking at that point? gina: that he was woefully informed, that he has a very foundational misunderstanding of the words diversity, equity, and inclusion, and that he and those who echo his words need to be asked, some say challenged, but asked, what do they mean, what to them is the opposite of diversity? does that mean just one group? if you aren't looking for diversity, you are just looking for one. which group is that? if you are not looking for equity, you are accepting unfairness. if you are not supporting inclusion, you are supporting exclusion. none of those things are american values. catriona: stay with us. i want to bring in the panel who are still with us, kelly hyman come joe moreno.

joe, we touched on it at the start of the program. donald trump does things quite deliberately. why do you think he jumped to start talking about this in that press conference where he was holding a moment of silence, expressing condolences? joe: it is clear this is an issue he is absolutely going to go to war on. my guess is on wednesday night, donald trump already got wind that some people were blaming him that the cuts to government were responsible for the crash. he probably came out the next morning determined that he would punch back hard. i don't love the fact that he jumped to that conclusion so quickly. this absolutely needs to be investigated thoroughly and transparently. but i think a lot of americans do support the notion that those buzzwords of diversity, equity, and inclusion are code words for something other than merit. that is what i think american support, selection that is

merit-based only, that is color blind, gender blind. once you start inserting those noble and yet non-merit-based attributes to get to some diversity goal that has never been defined but is aspirational, people don't like that. donald trump, his timing may have been poor, but he is touching on an issue that many americans are now free to say that we don't believe in non-merit-based systems. a country based on equality and opportunity, not equality of outcome. catriona: you just turn gina explained that they are merit-based, that is the whole point of these policies, to expand the pool of people that can apply, stop things from being so closed off. joe: how exactly is that being done? why would someone who is other than white and male not be able to go after the same opportunities? these jobs are posted on usa jobs. that is how people apply for them.

people are interviewed and vetted and selected based on the quality of their background and skills. once you start injecting these subjective attributes about why we think that a minority individual is better for a job based on an otherwise better qualified nonminority individual, people recall from that. it is very un-american. remember, we have the greatest story in history. we have the african-american son of a single mother who worked hard, became the president of the united states. that is what we should celebrate. not this idea of injecting some kind of a system to fight back against structural racism, which i have heard. catriona: let's let gina reply. i saw you shaking your head. gina: perhaps he did not hear me. i gave you an example of where a system does not allow open

competition, because it is not advertised. that is a truth in the department of state and perhaps other federal agencies, where a senior position, deputy assistance secretary, before my office existed, was not openly advertised and competed. my understanding is in the last week, it's been stopped again. that means the selection of those who get that very important senior position cannot be merit-based if only a few people are able to even know it exists. that is the difference. and statistically, people are selected for other reasons than merit. we have done studies where we see that. for a particular i.t. position, we got a great range of people applying for the job, we had a great range of people certified that they were ready to do the

job, but an individual with individual biases made the decision as to who got to be interviewed and who got selected. that is why we asked for panels, not individual hiring managers, diverse panels, so we could understand the range of things that people bring to the table, task. catriona: i want to bring in kelly briefly and we had to take a short break. we've also seen president trump try to implement these policies in the private sector as well, encouraging people to do it. can he do that? kelly: he can try but it's important to remember that diversity makes our country great. we are a country of diverse people from different backgrounds, from different experiences, and it's important that we embrace it, realize it, and are thankful for it. we are lucky to have diversity in our country. catriona: we have lots more to talk about.

luckily, we have lots more time. we are all going to stay there. we will be back in just a moment. stay with us here on bbc news. this year on bbc news. -- stay with us here. announcer: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... announcer: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation, pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. ♪ ♪ announcer: "usa today" calls it, "arguably the best bargain in streaming." that's because the free pbs app lets you watch the best of pbs anytime, anywhere.

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