amna: good evening. i'm amna nawaz. geoff: and i'm geoff bennett.

on the "newshour" tonight, in his first meeting with european allies, defense secretary pete hegseth charts major american policy shifts on ukraine. >> the united states does not believe that nato membership for ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement. amna: lawmakers spotlight the so called "war on waste" as elon musk's influence in the white house grows. geoff: and, the trump administration guts key research efforts within the education department, an agency the president has pledged to eliminate altogether. ♪ >> major funding for the pbs news hour has been provided by -- >> on an american cruise lines journey, travelers experienced the culture of the maine coast

and new england islands. our fleet of small cruise ships explore american landscapes, see side villages, and historic harbors. where you can experience local customs and cuisine. american cruise lines, proud sponsor of pbs news hour. >> in 1995, two friends set out to make wireless coverage accessible to all. with no long-term contracts, nationwide coverage, and 100% u.s.-based customer support. consumer cellular, freedom calls. ♪ >> the bouzkova foundation, strengthening being -- strengthening democracies at home and abroad. the walton family foundation, protecting water during climate change so people in nature can thrive together. supported by the macarthur

foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant, and peaceful world. more information at the website. and with the ongoing support of these institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting, by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. geoff: welcome to the newshour. in a major u.s. foreign policy shift, president trump announced today that he and russian president vladimir putin have agreed to immediately start talks to end the war in ukraine; the president also said he believed the two leaders would meet soon. amna: earlier in the day, defense secretary pete hegseth outlined further policy changes, saying kyiv should not expect to recapture all territory occupied by russia; and that its bid for nato membership is unrealistic

at this time. nick schifrin begins our coverage. >> at the headquarters of what u.s. officials consider the world's most important alliance, today, pete hegseth put the alliance on notice. >> we are here today to directly and unambiguously express that stark strategic realities prevent the united states of america from being primarily focused on the security of europe. nick: for decades, the u.s. deployed tens of thousands of troops to europe to help guarantee decades old u.s. policy that europe be integrated, free, and secure. beijing launched the fastest military modernization in history. the trump administration prioritized securing u.s. borders. >> as the united states prioritizes its attention to these threats, european allies must lead from the front. together, we can establish a division of labor that maximizes

our comparative advantages in europe and pacific respectively. nick: on ukraine, the biden and first trump administration's always said publicly that ukraine deserved all its territory taken by russia including crimea, invaded by russian soldiers and annexed in 2014. today, russia controls just under 20% of ukrainian territory , land that he said today was impossible to restore. >> we want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous ukraine . but we must start by recognizing that returning to ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering. nick: ukraine will need long-term security guarantees but said they would not be provided by nato. >> the united states does not

believe nato membership for ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement. instead, any security guarantee must be backed by capable european and non-european troops. if these troops are deployed as peacekeepers to ukraine at any point, they should be deployed as part of a non-nato mission and they should not be covered under article five. amna: to kickstart -- nick: to kickstart negotiations, president first called vladimir putin. >> we had a great call and it lasted for a long time, over one hour. this morning, i also had with president zelenskyy in good call after that and i think we are on the way to getting peace. i think president putin wants peace and president zelenskyy wants peace and i want peace. >> they have been saying that for a long time that ukraine cannot go into nato and i am ok with that. >> he was putting his eggs in

trump's basket. >> we believe america is a sufficient to pressure russia and putin into peace together with us together with all our partners. >> do you view ukraine as an equal member of the peace process? pres. trump: interesting question. i think they have to make peace. >> the crime and spokespersons the talks would extend beyond ukraine. >> president trump spoke in favor of stopping hostilities as soon as possible and resolving the problem by peaceful means. president putin mentioned the need to eliminate the root causes of the conflict. nick: today, the u.s. reduced what ukraine would help to expect as negotiations to end the war began. for the pbs news hour, i am nick schifrin. amna: for perspective on all this now we get two views. , evelyn farkas is the executive director of the mccain institute at arizona state university. during the obama administration, she served as deputy assistant

secretary of defense for eurasia. and john mearsheimer is a political science professor at the university of chicago. he's written extensively about u.s. national security. welcome to you both and thanks for joining us. evelyn, start us off here. i want to get your reaction to the secretary of defense class remarks, particularly this reversal of u.s. policy, saying the u.s. does not believe nato membership for ukraine is realistic or a return to the pre-2014 borders. what do you make of that and who does that benefit? evelyn: first of all, it is tactically not really a move that helps the president in terms of achieving his overall objective which is peace in ukraine because by telegraphing that our position is now closer to the russian position, it appears we are reducing our leverage on russia. and at the end of the day, everyone knows that if we want this war to end, the one person who can end the war overnight is

vladamir putin. ukrainians don't want to fight but they have to because they are fighting for their sovereignty and they will not accept any kind of trade of their territory without a firm security guarantee and a security guarantee without the united states involved will not stop vladimir putin. that is the reality. amna: john, what do you make of that? john: i think it is quite remarkable that the secretary of defense -- what the secretary of defense said today. he's basically saying that he accepts the russians two major conditions for moving toward a peace settlement. the russians have said that before a serious negotiation can even begin, the west and ukraine have to accept the fact that ukraine will not be in nato, that it will be a genuinely neutral country, number two, the west has to accept the fact that russia has annexed to the four old glasses in the east that

controls crimea and the secretary of defense basically said that ukraine is not going to be in nato. the united states is not going to give ukraine a security guarantee. that sounds like a neutral ukraine to me. and furthermore, although he did not specify what territory the russians can keep, he sounded like he was very close to saying they can keep those four over lost his they have annexed from crimea so i think this is an amazing statement and it's almost a complete reversal of what the biden administration is doing in ukraine. >> evelyn, we heard from the secretary of defense that europeans will now need to provide security guarantees for ukraine, not the u.s. and not nato. you heard he also said that if european troops are to act, they are going to be acting on their own without the article five protection, meaning an attack on one is an attack on all. what does that mean in practical terms on the ground in ukraine

and also for the nato alliance more broadly? >> i mean first of all, everybody agrees the europeans need to do more in terms of providing for their own defense and the defense of the continent but let's not be naive. vladimir putin is not afraid of the europeans without the united states backing up the europeans which is to say he is afraid of nato and he will not make another move on ukraine if ukraine is in nato. if ukraine is not in nato, meaning there is a security guarantee just from the europeans, that is not going to be sufficient to stop vladimir putin. let's remember, vladimir putin has an imperialist agenda. he wants to take ukraine and he's not going to stop there. is going to go from moldova dover, georgia, the former nato states, baltic states, guess who is watching all of this? his partner. they are closely allied. there is no way to split the china-russia threats from one another. china is watching. china will make a move on taiwan and will not stop there.

china has disputed territories were japan, the philippines. i can go on. you don't have time but the reality is that it is very dangerous if we leave the security guarantee purely to the europeans. >> if you are a nato ally listening to these remarks, it does this say to you the u.s. is no longer a reliable partner? john: well, i think with regard to your first question, putin has no interest in conquering all of ukraine much less conquering countries in eastern europe. he has never said he had any interest in conquering all of ukraine much less re-creating the soviet union or anything like that. furthermore, he simply does not have the capability to do that. you can see how much trouble he has had just conquering the eastern 1/5 of ukraine. the idea that this is the where marks -- -- it is not a serious argument. he wants a big chunk of territory in eastern europe and

he is in all likelihood going to get that in large part because he is winning on the battlefield. one of the reasons that trump is now cutting our losses is that trump and his lieutenants understand that we have lost on the battlefield. put it in slightly different terms. the ukrainians have lost. we have no leverage anymore. trump is facing up to reality so i don't think there is any danger of vladimir putin finishing off eastern ukraine and then moving into western ukraine and then moving into eastern europe. >> i saw you shaking your head. i will give you a brief moment to respond. >> vladimira putin telegraphing speeches and writings what his vision is. he wants to re-create the soviet union exactly and re-create the old russian empire. that is his agenda. make no mistake. he will not stop with ukraine and he will not stop with some old blast, some territories. i think the danger will only

heighten after he gets his way, if he gets his way with ukraine. amna: we heard from president trump that the negotiating teams have now been selected and he hopes this will help to bring an end to the war. do you see those negotiations yielding success? what do you think comes of those talks? john: well, these are very tricky negotiations because he has to get the ukrainians on board as well. it is not just the united states. he also has to pay attention to what his european allies are interested in doing. the united states is clearly the main force here. it is no question about that. it is not just us alone. it will be somewhat difficult to wrap up some sort of agreement from that perspective but furthermore, you want to understand that putin is interested in a much broader security agreements. he is not just interested in shutting down the war in ukraine.

he is fully aware that there are a number of other serious flashpoints in eastern europe. i could name six potential flashpoints that we should worry about and that putin should worry about and what he would like to do is get some sort of comprehensive security architecture for europe in general and certainly for the eastern half of europe so that we do not go down this road again and have a replay of the war in ukraine. >> in a few second -- in the few seconds i have left, do you think these negotiations will yield success? evelyn: if they do, it will take some time. we could get a quick cease fire but i don't think we are going to have a comprehensive pc all over the weekend at the munich security conference. amna: thank you to you both. appreciate your time. john: you are welcome. ♪

geoff: we start the day's other headlines with the latest on a multinational prisoner exchange. u.s. officials say that belarus released three detainees from jail today including one american. that is part of a broader swath that saw the u.s. free russian cyber criminal alexander vanek. he was suspected of funneling billions of dollars through his cryptocurrency exchange and pleaded guilty in it -- last year to a money laundering charge. in return russia released , american schoolteacher mark fogel. >> i feel like the luckiest man on earth right now. geoff: the 63-year-old fogel joined president trump at the white house late last night, holding a can of iron citybeer and draped in an american flag. mr. trump said the exchange could be an 'important part' in ending the war in ukraine vinnik 1 vinnik 2 fogel -- the war in ukraine. the federal judge cleared the way for president trump's plan to shrink the federal workforce through a deferred resignation plan. u.s. district judge doors o'toole junior in boston found a

group of labor unions did not have legal standing in calling the program illegal. eligible workers had initially faced a deadline last week to accept the offer commonly referred to as a buyout. under the plan, they would be allowed to leave their jobs with the promise of pay through the end of september. eight government watchdogs are suing president trump for abruptly firing them last month. the federal lawsuit argues the inspectors general who all served during mr. trump's first term should get their jobs back. it states president trump's attempt to eliminate a crucial and long-standing source of impartial nonpartisan oversight of his administration is contrary to the rule of law. they further argue mr. trump was legally required to give congress 30 days notice before hand. and washington, d.c., the newly installed board of trustees at the kennedy center voted today to make president trump its chairman. it comes days after mr. trump announced plans to overhaul the institution and after he replaced the board with his own

appointees. the board also voted to fire the institution's president, deborah rutter. she had initially planned to leave at the end of the year. former acting director of, will now be the interim president. president trump has decided the center's hosting dry performances as a reason for wanting to reshape its programming. the trump administration is scrapping a bite and policy that aims to regulate name, image, and likeness payments the college athletes under title ix rules. the guidance required universities treat those funds the same as athletic scholarships and that would have meant paying out the money proportionately to male and female athletes. a trump official called that guidance overly burdensome. more winter weather hit the central u.s. today from oklahoma to the great lakes. further east, they are digging out from a separate storm that cut its way from kentucky to the nation's capital.

clouds were out in virginia today as much of the mid-atlantic was blanketed in white. at one point, nearly 200,000 customers were without power there. meantime in california, they are bracing for an atmospheric river that will bring heavy rain. forecasters say the flash flood risk is especially high for burned-out areas around los angeles. federal health agencies are restoring websites and data sets that had been forced off 92 a presidential order. that comes after a judge in washington, d.c. ordered the content returned, saying their loss threatened the work of doctors and public health at large. the scrounge material included information on hiv monitoring, contraception, and the enrollment of women -- among other things. the site removals were apparently in keeping with an executive order from president trump directing agencies to remove any indication of alleged gender ideology. consumer prices ticked higher last month, rising 3% when

compared to the same time last year. that was due largely to higher costs for groceries, gasoline, and rent. today's reading is likely to give the u.s. federal reserve further reason to hold off on cutting interest rates. president trump made cutting prices a central part of his reelection bid, promising to reduce prices on day one. instead, economists say his proposed tariffs could drive prices higher even if temporarily. jerome powell told a congressional committee today that the fed will see how those policies play out before acting. >> we will try to make an intelligent judgment about the overall effect of the economy on those and conduct our policy accordingly but it is not our role in any way to comment on the wisdom of the policies that are enacted by congress for the administration. geoff: concerns about the pace of fed rate cuts sent a chill through wall street today. the dow jones industrial average ended down more than 200 points by the close.

the nasdaq managed a tiny gain of just six points. the s&p 500 closed lower, slipping about 16 points. canine enthusiasts westminster kennel club dog show, i choose the giant schnauzer. geoff: monty took home the most prestigious award in the u.s. dog show world last night. judges determine to the five-year-old most closely matches the ideal for his breed. some of the other finalists including a whippet named bourbon who has been the runner-up three times now plus another named neil, a sky terrier named archer, and a should to named comet -- a dog named comet. they do get a trophy, a giant ribbon, and of course lots of bragging rights.

still to come on the newshour, house republicans released their budget blueprint as the senate confirms tulsi gabbard as director of national intelligence. cuts to the federal government continue, this time within the department of education. and after adrien brody unpacks his oscar-nominated performance in the postwar epic the brutalist. ♪ >> this is the pbs news hour from the david and rubenstein studio at weta in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school at arizona state university. amna: house republicans have released their long promised budget outline as they seek to fulfill president trump's agenda while cutting both the deficit and taxes. but it remains unclear whether the plan will achieve those goals or if it even has the votes. congressional correspondent lisa desjardins is here with the latest. good to see you, lisa. lisa: just a quick reminder, why does all this matter?

what republicans do or don't do will affect nearly every american taxpayer. it will determine for potentially a decade who the winners or losers are in this economy. corporations, what happens to them? and it will also tell us is congress ever going to be serious about bringing down the deficit? all of that is at stake here. amna: high-stakes. walk us through it. there has been a lot of buildup in debate. what are house republicans proposing? lisa: first of all, i want to say this has not been easy. republicans finally cobbled this together today, a framework, sweeping plan. at the start, this is what they say they want to do as their outline. tax cuts, four point $5 trillion over 10 years. spending cuts, somewhere between 1.5 and 2 trillion. for the board and for ice detention and deportations, 300 billion dollars and that would be in effect almost immediately. almost all of this, you put that together and it would end up increasing the deficit by most estimates of $3 trillion.

republicans, they say the economy will make up for that. we are going to get into all that context as we get down the road. but the key part here is that republicans are doing major tax cuts and major spending cuts. one of the programs that would be most on the chopping block potentially for spending cuts is medicaid. that is the 72 million person program in the united states. republicans say it is full of waste and fraud and that they want more work requirements. democrats say no but speaker johnson says even if that is controversial, it is a good start. he put out this statement today saying that he remains focused on working through the process to deliver on promises made to the american people. there is still much work to be done but we are starting on the right path. that is to say also this agreement is not entirely cemented. at the same time, democrats are pushing back against this plan, saying it would hurt working and middle-class americans. >> meant of this is going to help the pain that americans are

feeling when they go to the grocery store or when they feel about the pump or when they tried to save for a house or when they pay their rent. all of it is a sham and it is a way to make sure that the rich get richer. lisa: republicans control the house and the senate. whether this succeeds or fails will be entirely up to them. amna: this is the proposal from house republicans. senate republicans seem to be moving in a different direction. what is happening there and is that a sign of bigger problems ahead? lisa: something we will get into more in the weeks ahead but this is all to do with a process called budget reconciliation which is essentially a way to get around the senate's 60 vote requirement. republicans don't have 60 votes in the senate. they are using this process as a shortcut. when you do that, it is an elaborate series of steps. both house and senate must agree on a budget so senate budget chairman lindsey graham thinks the house is taking too long so

he moved forward today with a separate plan that would only focus on the border portion, border detention ice portion of it and he explained to reporters yesterday why he thought this was necessary. >> i heard tom homan, pretty tough guy, begging us for money. i beg you to give me more resources. i heard him say ice is out of money. all i can tell my house colleagues, whatever you need to do to get the one beautiful bill, do it. do it now. you have my blessing. you have my support. but if we cannot do it quickly, we need to go to plan b. >> the borders are. -- border czar. republicans barely have a majority. they really cannot afford to many folks so he says, that's take something that is an easy win. we will see how this works out. amna: a win for president trump.

tulsi gabbard was confirmed and later sworn in. what should we know about her and the other nominations in the process? lisa: tulsi gabbard sworn in just a short while ago. she passed through with one republican voting. that was mitch mcconnell. he wrote a statement saying that he was very concerned that tulsi gabbard would not stay -- say clearly that vladimir putin is behind the war in ukraine. he said that is a real risk if the intelligence chief does not acknowledge that. he hopes she rises but otherwise, on the report -- all the republicans signed on board and we are watching robert f. kennedy, jr. who cast a key procedural vote today with every republican backing him. his final vote, he's well on the way to confirmation. we expect that tomorrow. amna: lisa desjardins, thank you very much. lisa: you are welcome.

geoff: president trump handed more power over to elon musk yesterday, giving the billionaire and his team oversight over hiring decisions across every government agency. geoff: and as his power grows, he continues to post sleeting or false accusations against government agencies to his more than 200 million followers on his social media platforms, x. during an appearance in the oval office, he was asked about his false claim that usaid planned to allot $50 million for condoms in gaza before his team stopped it. musk said this. >> first of all, some of the things i say will be incorrect and should be corrected. nobody is going to bet 1000. geoff: hours later, he continued to amplify the same debunked claim. president trump has -- three weeks into this administration, president trump has given musk enormous power over government agencies that the billionaire's companies do business with. our white house correspondent laura barron-lopez joins is here

-- is here with a closer look at the intersection of his government and private sector work and the potential conflicts in interest all of that brings. how much did elon musk's companies make from his federal government contracts? laura: elon musk owns six companies including x, neural link, but the two that fit the most from government contracts are spacex and tesla. and in all, his companies have been awarded more than $13 billion in government contracts over the last five years. that includes 3.8 billion dollars in government contracts awarded in 2024 and a lot of those contracts are with the defense department and nasa and the contracts are estimated to be in the billions. we don't have that full number given that some of those details are classified. geoff: more recently, elon musk and his allies have targeted the

faa and the consumer financial protection bureau. how does his work there present a conflict of interest? courts president trump said that musk has free reign to slash spending. the faa regulates spacex and last fall, the proposed spacex should be fined more than 600,000 dollars for licensing violations. the faa is currently investigating spacex for some safety violations. so again, potentially damaging some of his businesses. with the consumer watchdog, cfpb, musk has called for its elimination entirely. he and his team are leading the efforts to dismantle that consumer watchdog. the white house recently ordered all work to stop there. why is this a possible conflict? for years, he has been trying to turn x into and everything app and that includes a digital wallet for people to send --

to send money to each other and that is excepted to launch later this year. cfpb is the main federal financial regulator of digital payment systems like that so his money business would stand to potentially benefit from a weekend cfpb -- weakened cfpb. so i recent new york times report found that the trump administration has fired officials were issued halt work orders at at least 11 federal agencies and those federal agencies have more than 32 ongoing investigations, pending complaints, or enforcement actions into his six companies. i spoke to eric lipton who co-authored that report and he summed it up this way. >> across the landscape of the federal government, there have been changes in oversight through firings by president trump or departures through the transition that have brought real benefits to elon musk and his companies. that there are lawsuits,

investigations, pending matters that he is less likely to be fined as a result of or punished as a result of and there is real benefit that elon musk has already achieved. amna: -- >> there is no direct evidence so far that elon musk has personally directed those firings even though doge has been involved in some of them, but lipton said that his businesses are still benefiting from these firings. geoff: are there any constraints for elon musk apart from president trump potentially saying he has had enough? amna: there don't appear -- >> there don't appear to be any guardrails. elon musk suggested that he and his team will figure out for themselves if there are potential conflict of interest. >> all of our actions are fully public so if you see anything, you say, wait a second, that seems like maybe that is, you know, there is a conflict there.

it is not like people are going to be shy about saying that. they will say it immediately. >> essentially saying he can police himself. that is the firing of inspectors general across the board. which trump fired more than 17 so far and they are a key part in investigating whether government employees have complied with ethics laws or if companies who have government contracts are complying with the law and i spoke to richard paynter who served in the george w. bush administration and he said elon musk cannot be touching cfpb, the consumer watchdog bureau, because he could potentially be in a lot of trouble with the criminal conflict of interest law that is currently in statute. caroline levitt asked about that today and she said she has not seen that law and that they trust elon musk is following the law. it is impossible to know the

full scope of his potential contract -- coccyx of interest and how his control over these government systems could personally benefit him. he said that he is not going to be publicly releasing his financial disclosures. he will be filling out that paperwork for the white house. geoff: thank you as always. amna: also on capitol hill today, the house subcommittee that bears a slightly different name but the same acronym as elon musk's agency held its first hearing. geoff: members from both parties say they were focused on rooting out waste and fraud. democrats were quick to point out that he did not appear before the committee. >> directly to mr. elon musk, we are well aware that you are eager to engage with members of congress on social media but we are not here to play. if you have serious desire to engage in democracy and transparency, we welcome you to

the oversight committee. come and testify in front of the american people under oath because we want to know what you are up to. amna: meanwhile, republicans took aim at their colleagues across the aisle. >> if we have learned anything so far, it is that republicans want to cut waste, fraud, and abuse from our federal government and save taxpayer dollars, and democrats want to grandstand and play politics. amna: for more perspective, we turn now to david walker. between 1990 and two thousand eight, he headed the u.s. government accountability office that investigates federal spending. david, welcome to the news hour. thank you for joining us. so i think it is fair to say you would be hard-pressed to find someone who says there is absolutely no waste or fraud in government spending but when you look at what doge is doing and how they are doing the job so far, do you think that they are targeting the waste and fraud that you think they should be?

david: what they are doing is a review of information systems and transactions. they are not doing an audit and they are identifying areas that could be fraud, waste, abuse, or judgment. in most cases, it is arguably waste and mismanagement rather than necessarily illegal or fraudulent activity. what they are demonstrating is that the federal government has thousands of outdated nonintegrated information systems and totally inadequate controls and that is one of the reasons that you are seeing some of these sensational items pop up. amna: what about the way in which they are going about this? it is more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel approach and we have seen entire agencies like usaid essentially shut down. they are wholesale slashing programs and other agencies. federal workers have now been put on leave. is that the right approach in your view and are they making a dent in what they have done so far? >> i think that they need to be much more transparent about

their targeting, about what they are doing, who is doing it, what type of background checks, what type of clearances they have been given. you know, in the case of usaid, i am not sure what basis they came up with the go thousands of employees down to 300. i think there needs to be much more transparency with regard to the criteria that they are using as to how they are giving to some of those numbers as well. amna: where their efforts? where are some of the big ticket items when it comes to waste and flat -- fraud? david: health care is number one and there's a lot of problems with regard to certain payments. in particular with regard to covid payments that were made. i would not be surprised if there was $1 trillion of frankly fraud and abuse with regard to that item. taxes. we have a lot of situations where there is a lot of improper and ready that goes on with

regard to our tax system, and also contracting activities so those are some of the areas i think are the most fruitful. amna: you mean specific the department of defense, for example? david: there are a lot of agencies that engage in contracting but defense is one of the biggest for sure. amna: they also say, the doge team, they are doing work the existing bodies have not been doing. the government accountability office, for example. for the trump administration to fire a number of inspectors general who would arguably be doing the same work, do you think that hurts or helps their mission? david: first, the inspectors general are supposed to be on the front line of finding fraud, waste, abuse, and mismanagement. that is the inspector general's job. and whoever advised the president to be able to fire all those inspectors general in wholesale and without proper notification to congress did not do the country a favor or the

president favor. it was inappropriate. it was illegal. frankly, the inspector general should be working in partnership with doge. they have done a tremendous amount of work with regard to duplication, overlap, and redundancy in the federal government that can be very helpful to doge but i am not sure that doge is reaching out to them. amna: when you look at the overall mission to cut spending, it has a lot of support that effectively, what you have is that it is a private, unelected billionaire with numerous potential conflicts of interest here and elon musk who has extraordinary access and power to government systems and decision-making here. in some cases, usurping even congressional authority, talking about halting congressionally appropriated funds in some cases. when you look at the way in which they are going about their work, does the end justify these means? >> what they are doing needs to be done but as i said before, they need to be much more transparent with regard to what they are doing.

how they are doing it, who is doing it, and what type of background checks and conflict of interest checks these people have been subject to. if that ends up happening, it will improve their effectiveness and credibility and enhance public trust. but understand this. doge is just the first step in a multistep process. doge can help with making a modest down take payment in our deficit situation. we are spending $5.5 billion per day more than we are taking in and ultimately, the heavy lifting, the real big changes, are going to have to be done through legislation and a constitutional amendment. amna: that is david walker, former head of the u.s. accountable the office. david, thank you. really appreciate your time. david: my pleasure. geoff: the department of

education is very much on the trump chopping block. details have not fully been released yet but president trump has signaled plans to dismantle it and move some of its key functions elsewhere. the education department overseas student loans, federal funds for lower income students, and special education programs for many other things. already, the doge group and administration have put a number of staff on leave nd are stopping more than $900 million in contracts to allow for key education research on student and school performance. we are joined by laura meckler for the washington post. thank you for being here. laura: thanks for having me. geoff: the $900 million worth of contracts that elon musk and his allies have canceled all but decimated the agency's research division which is a big part of what the department of education does. it gathers research and data. what is the expected impact? laura: a lot of the stuff is low-key stuff that we don't really think about. for instance, one of the things

this institute for education sciences does is they do a census of all schools. gather information about how many schools are there, how many schools aren't enrolled? what is the demographics of the teaching force? this is information that we use for other federal programs. it is the information other researchers rely on. that journalists rely on that really forms the backbone of our understanding so that is an example of one of the contracts that was suddenly canceled out of the blue on monday. you also have work to evaluate programs to try to understand better sort of what works and what doesn't, whether it be an early childhood program or literacy program. so it ranges from sort of big things like that to sort of niche programs and the u.s. participation in international assessments that whenever you hear data like, well, the u.s. ranks x or y in reading or math, that comes from testing that is done and there is a contrast to do that testing that was cut. geoff: president trump

apparently said he wants the department of education to be closed immediately. he has routinely criticized the department during the campaign and his criticism fits within sort of the larger long-standing conservative goal of rolling back the role of the federal government in education. you know, most legal experts agree that no president can unilaterally shut down an established government department or agency but that has not stopped them from trying to dismantle agencies that they don't like. what programs, what sort of assistance for public school students would go away? laura: there's two separate questions. one is does the department of education exist and does the stuff that the education department does, does that exist? so you could theoretically take the functions of the department of education and scatter them about the government so one thing -- important thing the education department does is it enforces civil rights laws and that can be done by the justice department. it runs a federal student loan program that could theoretically

go to the treasury department. or you could decide, you know what, we are not going to do this, that, or the other. there is a big program called title i that provides supplement your money for high poverty schools. theoretically, you could decide not to do that or you could cut it back or turn it into a block grant to the states or that the states do whatever they want with the money so there's a lot of different ways that this could look. geoff: when president trump and other republicans talk about returning the control of education to the states, isn't that already the case where states and local districts controlled local education? i mean, the department of education doesn't have a national curriculum. amna: every time i hear him -- laura: every time i hear him say that, i want to put a little asterix up for everybody to see and hear. education is already controlled by the states and local school boards. states that broad rules schools have to follow and then the school districts implement them with the details and they set the curriculum. the department of education, the federal government is not

controlling education. it is providing some supplemental work. it is enforcing civil rights laws and it has a big role in -- for colleges what you know, it is not -- we would not be returning education to the states. that is where it is largely today. geoff: linda mcmahon is set to be the next secretary of education in her confirmation hearing is tomorrow. where does she fit within mr. trump's overall vision for rolling back this department? amna: linda mcmahon is very close to president trump. she was cochair of his transition committee. she was his administrator for the small business administration. one of the people who came back for the second term so they are very close. she was -- it was presumed she will be ready, willing, and we will see if she's able to implement his vision but you know, her own past is not particularly incendiary. she has a very thin education record but she does have an education record and the work she did in connecticut, the things she said when she was

running for senate in connecticut and successfully twice were much more mainstream education ideas. geoff: based on your reporting, what do educators think about all of this? there was just that national record -- that national report card that found that most fourth and eighth graders in 2024 still performed below pre-pandemic 2019 levels in both reading and math. it suggests the status quo is not working. laura: right, and that actually is the argument you hear from conservatives for closing the education department. they will say, look, we have these horrible tests scores and things are not getting better. we have a crisis. how has this helped? it has not helped. let's try something new. other people look at it and say he doesn't mean we need less support from the federal government. it means we need more support so the things that we know works such as high dosage tutoring or extended time in schools. they say they need more support for those kind of efforts. so you know, how you interpret this data, it depends on sort of

what your point of view is. geoff: thank you so much for coming in. laura: thanks for having me. ♪ amna: now to another look at this year's upcoming oscars. one of the years most acclaimed films, the brutalist, received 10 nominations, and its star, adrien brody, a winner at last month's: globes, is a favorite for actor in a leading role. he recently joined jeffrey brown for our arts and culture series. >> may i keep these? >> in the brutalist, adrien brody plays laws low, if fictional -- laszlo, an architect, survivor of a nazi concentration camp. his past always present as an immigrant and outsider in postwar america. it was the kind of deeply meaningful role that comes only rarely in the life of an actor.

>> you are receiving material, interpreting material to the best of your abilities. sometimes, that material comes and is incredibly powerful, and sometimes, it is powerful. but when you have something that is incredibly powerful, it really is something. >> there was a war on. many of the sites of my project -- my buildings were constructed to endure such erosion. >> the film is big in every way. big dreams, big buildings, big personalities. a story that unfolds over several decades and runs some 3.5 hours long. including an intermission. brody is there for nearly every minute, playing a damaged, complicated man driven by his

art and his need to build. >> most deeply creative people have moments of unpredictability, you know? they are consumed with work. and ideas, and they cannot do everything right. >> you get a roll, do you immediately start thinking who is this person? in this case, who is laszlo? >> sure. i tried to go into any character without judgment and to uncover qualities that are accessible and find avenues into the things that are less accessible. >> come back to the neighborhood looking like a freak. >> he made a big impression in spike lee's 1999 film summer of sam.

in 2003, age 29, he became the youngest ever to win the oscar for best actor, playing a jewish musician in nazi occupied warsaw in roman polanski is the pianist. that will, he says, offered ways towards understanding laszlo years later, but he also drew on a more direct connection, the immigrant experience of his hungarian born grandparents and his mother, sylvia, a noted photographer who came to this country at age 15. in the wake of the 1956 hungarian uprising crushed by soviet tanks. >> how much were you able to mind that -- mine that and how much and step in the character? >> i think my grandfather struggles assimilating, and you know, speaking with a very distinct accent. in spite of being so gregarious and charming, still being

treated as a foreigner. not able to xl as much as he could have. and my mother's journey and understanding of loss and sensitivity to the loss of others and how that has been very much a part of her work. >> winning the golden globe award in january, brody paid tribute. >> although i do not know fully how to express all of the challenges that you have faced and experienced and the many people who have struggled him a greeting to this country, i hope that this work stands to lift you up and to give you a voice. i am so grateful. i will cherish this moment forever. thank you. >> haven't you told him anything about me? >> laszlo, how long have you been here now, 4, 5 years? >> it's fundamental to his approach. he said he seeks to act unless and feel honest in an

interpretation. >> acting has some connotation of acting like something, doing an impression of something. any actor who has studied has found the greatest sense of connection when they are able to do a bit less of that and the only moments that you are really acting are when you are not connecting to that and that is not what one should be doing. >> in the pianist, in which his character has a painful limp, he went so far as to put rocks in issue -- in his shoe. >> and make myself feel a bit of discomfort and i am not required to put something on. i can just kind of experience it and it will trigger something else. that is the beauty of being an actor is that you can only get better if you can remain focused and grounded and connected with the work. >> he has regularly appeared in

films and television series including starring in the 2005 blockbuster king kong. >> i want to buy it. >> smaller roles when he is a billionaire investor with his own island in succession. >> for me to come your way, i have a little wishlist, a little juicing, some stock buyback, you know, let me in. >> he has lamented the dearth of truly important roles. for a time, he put more of his creative energy into an early love, painting. >> it is never a clear path. it is one of constant need to find things that are not quite apparent that you have to make your way through it. every once in a while, something will come along that is a beacon, that is an opportunity to do their best work and that

you are around people doing their best work and that it lifts you up and gives you space to exist in the full capacity which you are yearning to give. >> they do not want us here. >> they do not want us here. >> he knows that with its themes of uprooted this, antisemitism, heart in a time of upheaval, the brutalist feels very relevant to our own moment. >> it is great to have an artistic film like this present in the conversation. it shows that if that speaks to much deeper issues and is an artistic work. and that audiences are not only curious enough to see them but your name for storytelling of

this nature so i am really grateful to be part of something that speaks to all of that. >> adrien brody goes for his second oscar on march 2. for the pbs news hour, i am jeffrey brown in new york. amna: and that is the news hour for tonight. geoff: for all of us here at the pbs news hour, thanks for spending part of your evening with us. >> major funding for the pbs news hour has been provided by -- >> a proud supporter of public television. on a voyage with us, the world awaits. a world of flavor, diverse destinations, and immersive experiences. a world of leisure. and british style.

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hello, everyone, and welcome to "amanpour & co." here's what's coming up. president trump meets jordan's king abdullah,