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narrator: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... erika: i love seeing interns succeed, i love seeing them come back and join engagement teams and seeing where they go from there, i get to watch their personal growth, it makes my heart happy. (laughs) ♪ ♪ narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation, the judy and peter blum kovler foundation, upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at home and abroad. announcer: and now, bbc news. >> hello, i'm christian fraser. and this is "the context." >> the president spoke to president putin of russia. they spoke at length in the president released a statement

following the conversation in great detail. i can also confirm that the president just recently got off the phone with president zelenskyy. >> we are also here today to directly and unambiguously express that stark strategic realities prevent the united states of america from being primarily focused on the security of europe. >> ukraine's rightful place is in nato, that is a process that will take some time. ♪ christian: yes, donald trump has spoken to vladimir putin. negotiations in ukraine are beginning and it might include a presidential visit to moscow. meanwhile in brussels, some blonde troops from the new u.s. defense secretary, all of which have serious implications for the baltics.

we will hear tonight from the estonian defense minister. also on the program, we are in the count on a poodle weekend for gaza, we will get a reaction to that. and can we trust what mi5 tells us? in court today that intelligence agency issued a reserved apology to bbc and the courts for false evidence it had given it in a trial involving one of its agents. a very warm welcome. donald trump said he and vladimir putin will take a commonsense approach to the war in ukraine. the two men had a lengthy and productive phone call today, the russian president extended an invitation to donald trump to visit moscow. president trump thanked him for the time and effort he is extending. from this white house, there is zero condemnation of russia's invasion of ukraine, no reflection today on a tsunami of ballistic missiles russia had fired at ukraine overnight. only an eagerness to escape the

cost of this war and as quickly and humanly possible. we have agreed to have our respective teams start negotiations immediately, said trump. i will be calling the present of you to inform him of the composition we have had. i have asked secretary of state marco rubio, director of the cia john ratcliffe, national security advisor michael waltz and special envoy steve witkoff to lead the negotiations. that conversation with president zelenskyy has already taken place. he is the white house -- here is the white house press secretary. sec. leavitt: the president distance and he got off the phone with president zelenskyy of ukraine. his truth is as follows -- i just spoke two president zelenskyy of ukraine. the conversation went very well. he, like president putin, wants to make peace. we discussed topics having to do with the war, but the mostly being set up on friday in munich

where vice president jd vance and secretary of state marco rubio would lead the delegation. i am hopeful that the results of that meeting will be positive. >> all of that just hours after america's new defense secretary outlines the potential shape of the negotiation in brussels. pete hegseth said there will never be u.s. peacekeepers in ukraine and any hope by keys of retrieving that they have left this 2014 is, he said, "uninversion." >> we want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous ukraine. but we must start by recognizing that returning to ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering. christian: his statement to his fellow defense ministers in brussels removed any security guarantee for ukraine, including any future nato membership. it put you up on notice that they are not responsible for their own defense.

with had a flurry of defense today from poland, france, germany and the u.k. we are forming their support for ukraine, but concerns too especially from baltic countries within europe have been too slow to increase spending. i will be fit into the estonian defense minister -- i was speaking to the estonian defense minister. >> we talked for a while and we were all waiting for the message. it was in one way or deductible that the message will be very strong. but of course, in our also it was maybe stronger than was expected. christian: in what way? guest: when they say different slices of his message, then first they said clearly that the u.s. is going for peace through strength. and of course he was also saying that europe needs to do more.

we couldn't agree more. we have said that many times, yes, europe needs to do more than 2%, what we are spending on defense today is not enough. his message regarding their membership, we have to read very carefully what he said. he was clearly saying that the outcome of the peace negotiations cannot be the membership in nato. so we have to still be in a position that the decision we have made in washington, that there will be the possibility for ukraine to be in nato, is still an option. also when we talk about the peace negotiations, then of course we all understand that in the short perspective, it is obviously very difficult for

ukraine to take back all of the territories. but sometimes also we have seen from history that it might take time. estonia was occupied for 50 years. germany was disunited for 50 years. we have seen that. also today, we see north korea and south korea is not one country. malta and cyprus. different countries. this is why -- my message is very clear that in this family when wealue t freedoms, when we value the battles we hold, we can't tolerate that somebody will come to your territory and take it by force. christian: obviously russia has occupied 20% of ukrainian land including crimea. is it still the european position that some of that land has to come back? guest: well, of course we have a

said, in europe, that territorial integrity is something that we value and we will never accept that somebody can take territory by force or by military force. this is why i believe that all european countries have a very clear understanding that we will never recognize the occupied territories of ukraine, and we will only stand with ukraine to take back all the territories and to have territorial integrity. christian: we will come back to what role europe has in the negotiation. but let's suppose there is an armistice line along the front line as it is now, what is the security guarantee? because pete hegseth said they would be no u.s. deployment to ukraine, no peacekeeping forces on the ground, no article v guarantees. why would vladimir putin stop? under these terms, it doesn't appear to the west has this much leverage? guest: europe has leverage.

if we spend more on our own defense and when we help ukraine. christian: but we are not there now. in this negotiation in the next few months, what leverage do we have? guest: we have to understand that ukraine is ready to negotiate when they have a stronger position. pete hegseth said peace through strength is still what they believe in. that means we are waiting for the u.s. admin decision, on the new aid package, will there be or not. and when waiting for this, the rope will continue helping ukraine with military assistance. when we take from the total aid which was given to ukraine which is about 51 billion euros, from this, around 60% came from european countries plus, canada.

so the u.s. had around 40% of this. christian: yes, but president zelenskyy said just yesterday that europe makes commitments it doesn't necessarily follow through. they are very skeptical about europe taking the lead because he doesn't believe europe can provide the defense systems that. guest: they need ukraine can also assist assessed. it has to do more, no question about it. we have to do more, no question about it. it is for us here in europe to ask the threat assessment regarding russia. we want ukraine to win this war or not? at least when ukraine would like to go to negotiations, we need to be together with them and provide all the necessary help to them to be in a stronger position. because we see also the last

stage that they are conducting a counteroffensive not only in lursky, but in the donetsk and lugansk region -- not only in kursk. and they are successful. it's a very thin line we are standing at the moment where there is the possibility for ukraine to be in a better position for these negotiations. christian: do you worry, as america steps away, that vladimir putin will test article v by taking a shot at a country like yours, estonia, and whether america would respond. do you think the risk of that kind of event has grown today, with the statement we have heard from pete hegseth? guest: he said very clearly that the u.s. will not go away from -- will not leave nato. that this is a very clear statement. christian: but, that not

precisely what i am asking you. i am asking you whether you believe whether donald trump would abide by an article v agreement " an attack on one is an attack on all" guest: i believe the u.s. is , or its obligations. so yes, i believe. we have u.s. troops in estonia. british troops in estonia. french troops in estonia. we have allies not only in estonia, but in latvia. there are 14 nations together with latvia securing the peace of the region. christian: is that how you perceive europe would arm in armistice surrender ukraine. european troops along the line in ukraine? guest: well, it's too early to define what would be the allied

forces' presence, or western forces' presence in ukraine, because we don't have the preconditions for the cease-fire at the moment. we don't know what the peace arrangement will be. it all depends on that, how many troops. russians will still live close to the contact line. and you could it'll keep troops on the contract line. it's too soon to say how big will be the number of troops or what europe should send to ukraine. christian: and that is dependent on the spending is next at the moment that ukraine has less than 50,000 troops. we are still not at 2.5%. there is conceivably no way the big european countries will get to 5% anytime soon. do you demand a different

conversation within europe about the war economy and what that means? guest: will have this discussion very seriously tomorrow during the north atlantic council meeting. today we concentrated on ukraine and tomorrow we will discuss internal matters of nato. and i am very confident that we will raise that issue not only from the industrial point of view, but also from the defense spending's point of view very seriously. estonia has been saying for a long time already, that 2% is simply not enough and it should be 3% or rather more. we have next year already agreed to three point 7%. maybe we will even increase it after the discussions we have in estonia to go above 4%, maybe even 5%. we expect that all the countries in nato --

what response did you christian: get from the british minister christian: lesson defense minister when you put that to him today? guest: i had not much time today with john, but we will definitely have more time tomorrow. we know that -- it is also determined to have better defense forces and they conducting the defense review. i really do hope not only britain also portugal, spain, italy and everyone in nato in europe will understand why we need to increase defense spending. because when we agree on the capability targets, then we agree that. christian: finally, can i ask you, do you think we are less safe in europe tonight? guest: yes, the rule is safe to him at night. christian: are we less safe? guest: i believe we haven't seen any decision from the united states to stop over from nato.

we have not seen any hints about they will withdraw forces or troops from different countries. so i believe that we have a very clear commitment not only from the european countries, but also the united states, that nato is the strongest military alliance and as you mentioned, one for all, all for one principal is still valid. christian: estonian defense minister, mr. hanno pevkur talking to me a short time ago. we will get more with our panel tonight. with us is the former u.s. ambassador type nato. you may have heard mr. pevkur they're talking about some knows what it comes to the future of american support for ukraine. will there be arms or future engagement. president zelenskyy has tried to appease donald trump by offering lucrative reconstruction constructs and access to ukraine's rare-earth minerals. today the new u.s. treasury secretary scott bessent was in

washington to begin the -- those talks. >> the united states is committed to ukraine's independence and also committed that the american people will also understand what we are doing here. president trump has a plan to end this war and we would like an economic cooperation agreement. in exchange, the u.s. will continue providing material support for the ukraine. christian: well, that's interesting it is a nay -- --, isn't it? we will look more at that late the program. around the world and across the u.k., you are watching bbc news. ♪

christian: welcome back. we are in the content to a crucially important weekend in the middle east with the assumption of a war in gaza now

a possibility. israel has said that unless hamas reproduces on the sausages over the weekend, the cease fire will be over. the defense is ready minister warned of the campaign would be an even greater intensity than the one before the cease fire. it will facilitate he said, the plan president trump has set out from gaza, namely that is -- expulsion of 2.5 million palestinians. egypt is stepping up diplomatic efforts to rescue this is fair. hamas negotiators are in cairo. the question is will prime minister netanyahu be satisfied with the house to do that would have been exited this week and under the original terms of the agreement? is security cabinet is said to have unanimously backed president trump's demand that all of these remaining hostages be freed. in the past few minutes hamas has called for solidarity marches a worldwide. >> if hamas does not release the

israeli hostages by saturday, then the gates of hell will open up on them, just as the president of the united states promised. i come here today to ensure the idf is properly prepared to renew the war in gaza. the entire six year agreement with the hamas matters was intended to bring about the safe release of the israeli hostages are being held in great conditions in gaza. and for that, israel has agreed to pay a heavy price. if hamas stops the hostage release, then there is no cease-fire agreement and there is war. the new gaza war will be on intensity, from the one before the cease fire, and it will also allow the realization of trump's for gaza -- vision for gaza.

christian: and the last hour, the white house press secretary karoline leavitt that it will be more majestic for palestinians to be moved from guys that -- no idea what that means not sure anyone right now has a clear idea of how america will come to own gaza let's ask the former u.s. ambassador and president of the middle east policy counsel, jean abercrombie. good to see you, ambassador. guest: good to see you, as well. christian: are you curious as to how this plan will be more majestic? guest: i remain firm of the belief that it is a possibility and, therefore, a useful tool to acknowledge others towards action. christian: will keep coming back to how poorly conceived this plan is, but from the reporting around the israeli security cabinet, they are intoxicated from what they are getting from trump. it is beyond their expectations. does that, to your mind, confused and perhaps make things more difficult for benjamin

netanyahu? guest: it might. i mean, people can dream and do. however, a solid and clear-eyed look at the statements, because you're absolutely right, there is no plan. when you talk about moving a vast number of people, up to 2 million, who don't want to be moved, have made clear they don't want to be moved, then there is no way forward. it's not even about its against international law or it would be called ethnic cleansing, the world would stand by and not exact any cost either for the united states or for israel -- it is an unthinkable thing. and of course americans are as surprised as the rest of the world to have heard the statement from the president. he does have a mandate. certainly on economic issues, on border security issues.

and what we have seen in the last several days in his statements and executive orders, have not gone in support of what americans were hoping to see from him. christian: we had a security expert, the program last night, with 20 years in the military. he was explaining that after 14 months of destruction in gaza, there is now a small ratio of targets versus the massive collateral damage there would be. you have palestinians returning to their homes presumably now less inclined to leave because they know they might never come back. so when yisrael katz talks about an operation of much greater magnitude, what might that look like? guest: i don't think it's worth discussing, in all honesty. moving people who don't want to be moved -- i think we start and we stop there.

to have them moved someplace would require setting up all the things that need to be set up in the gaza strip, but someplace else. and while there may not be rebel or unexploded ordinance, if you are talking about moving them to egypt that setting is someplace that doesn't have its structure, the schools necessary at any place they are. they want to remain on their own land. we understand the implications for jordan. it's a small place. it would destabilize the government, speaking very diplomatically. and they already have over 2 million palestinian refugees they already. asking them to take more is not the request of a friend or even an ally who understands the situation and the context of what he is saying. christian: some of what president trump saying is that it is time to think outside the

box, because everything to this point has not for act. the two state solution, let's be honest, hasn't worked. it's difficult to conceive how you may rebuild gaza and we do such a densely populated area, and with decorative hamas hanging over you. so there is a sense to extent, that what he saying about that reconstruction effort. how might the arab states engage with that? guest: i think that's right and as i said in the beginning, the statements are actually to spur action towards something else. he is right, would have been tried for the last 30-plus years has not worked, either the

international community hasn't made enough effort of carrots and sticks to move the parties, or it simply is impossible as it is set up now. so a lot of people are quite exercised by the statement. as we know, there is a meeting coming up posted i think by egypt, to go over what else can be put in place that will satisfy both parties and the region, because study has been clear it has to be a clear pathway to palestinian sovereignty and palestinian self-determination. what might that look like? they shouldn't be depending just on the united states to figure it out. this is a problem of the region in the region. there are brilliant diplomats in the region and we should expect a bold plan, narrator: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... bdo, accountants and advisors, funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation, the judy and peter blum kovler foundation, upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at home and abroad.

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