♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ narrator: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... nicole: at bdo i feel like a true individual, people value me for me, they care about what i want,

my needs, my career path, i matter here. ♪ ♪ narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation, the judy and peter blum kovler foundation, upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at home and abroad. announcer: and now, bbc news. ♪ >> hello, this is "the context" on "bbc news." >> the goal was to bringen in end to this conflict in a way that's fair, enduring and sustainable and acceptable to all parties involved. >> i have ever reason to believe that the american side understands our position -- is beginning to understand our position better. it is fundamentally important

that any thought on the end to the war do not happen behind the backs of the three parties involved. >> russia will be very confident, super confident, that it can, with the help of america, get some kind of deal to end the war but on russia's terms. >> when you have america adopting one dominating approach to these talks and you have europe divided or working out how to provide security in the region as well as for ukraine. ♪ >> welcome to the program. well, it's the first time since the invasion of ukraine that the u.s. and russia have held high-level talks. those talk lasted four hours and took place in saudi arabia. afterwards tv's agreed that more negotiations would take place

after what has been described as a constructive meeting between the u.s. secretary of state marco rubio and his russian counterpart sergei lavrov. they said all sides must make concessions. all this come amid a failurey of diplomacy, sparked by a change in approach from the new president trump. but this is the kicker. neither ukraine nor europe had a seat at the table today so while he was shut out of the talks in riyadh. ukraine's president, zelensky was in angara meeting his kurdish counterpart. they criticized the talks in saw rain as talks about ukraine without ukraine and he said negotiations should not take place behind our backs. we hear from our correspondents in riyadh, moscow and in kyiv but let's start with an overview

from our diplomatic correspondent. >> a moment of history, americans on the left, russians on the right. senior officials face to face for the first time in years. both sides silent and grim faced for the media but russia back at the top table without making a single concession and clearly glad to come in from the cold. america's top diplomat marco rube yo said they agreed to improve dim lomatic relations and appoint negotiators to find what he called a fair and enduring solutioned to war in ukraine. >> i came away convinced that they are willing to engage in a serious process to determine how and how quickly and through what mechanism can an end be brought to this war. whether he can ultimately reach that outcome will ultimately depend on the every side to

agree to on certain things. >> from being international pariah to america's partner. the u.s. insisted no one was being shrined but look around that table. no europeans and certainly no ukrainians. russia's veteran foreign minister said both sides had lened and heard each other but gave no sign of conceding anything. he said not only could ukraine ever join nato but russia could not tolerate any western deterrence force within its borders. >> we explained today the appearance of armed forces from nato countries under a foreign flag, of the european union or under national flags does knot change anything in this regard. this is, of course, unacceptable to us. >> but britain and other european alleys believe western

troops should deploy to ukraine before any peace deals. not for training like this but to deter future russian aggressions. president putin wasn't invited to the talks and has canceled his own planned trip to saudi arabia later this week. >> i am convinced that for ukraine and for our region, for europe, that it is critical that any negotiations to end the warp are not happening behind the backs of the key parties affected by the russian aggression. >> the talks in called rain went on for more than four hours, long enough for both sides to take a break, images unthinkable in recent years. remember, rush i-'s foreign minister is still subject to u.s. sanctions and remember, too, after almost three years of war, russia is still attacking ukraine, launching yet amount drone attack on coach and

elsewhere overnight. for all the diplomacy, the fighting continues. >> as promised, let's take you around the world to get some reaction to those meetings. tom bateman is traveling with the american delegation and was in the room where it happened in riyadh. >> we were brought in for a very short amount of time at the meeting and then we saw that extraordinary scene. the u.s. delegation sitting face to face opposite their russian counter parts, first time any such face-to-face meeting has taken place at that level in three years. on the left was marco rubio, the u.s. secretary of state. steve witkoff, president trump's envoy to the region and the national security advisor of the white house, mike robbs and sitting across the table from

them, sergei lavrov, the russian foreign minister and a key foreign adviser to president putin. of course, just as important is who was not there. the ukrainians had not been invited. that was a question i shouted to marco rubio. >> the ukraine going to be involved? >> he didn't answer those. it was clear at that point i think the meeting was going to take some hours and take up best part of the day before both sides gave their own accounts, narratives of the way the meeting had gone. >> tom bait martin -- bateman, who was traveling with the u.s. secretary of state. steve rosenberg is in moscow and our u.k. correspondent is in

kyiv. >> president zelensky looked i were at a timed. he looked tired, giving a press conference of his own when he said, look, how can you have a negotiation about the security of europe, the security of ukraine without either parrot being represent senate there is a likelihood that mistakes could be made with kyiv's absence. what he wants is he wants a large ukrainian military in the absence of likely nato memphis supported by western alleys but i think we're seeing an early rubbing in these negotiations, despite america saying we're opening a channel of communication. he wants large troops. certain gay lavrov, in today's meeting said if there are any troops in ukraine under nip flag, that would be unacceptable to us so we're seeing an early position there and ukraine will say it is vital in its future security. president erdogan from has said

that ukraine should be present in any future talks so we'll see whether he'll be i'm second timed down the line. >> on the face of it nothing spectacularly special. five men sitting around a table and yet that image, that is already a diplomatic victory for moscow. the fact that senior u.s. officials were sitting down with senior russian officials while russia was waging wash against ukraine, that is a sign, i think, that western efforts to isolate russia over the war have fail and would that russia is back on the global stage. now, a single meeting was not going to resolve all the issues in u.s.-russia relations and it wasn't going to end the fighting in one day but i think after these talks, question remains how is the ukraine war going to end? moscow continues to push for an end to this war on russia's

terms, terms that basically amount to ukraine's capitulation. 23469, today, the day of these talks, russia hardened its demands, not only saying that ukraine mustn't join natea, it's demanding that nateo disavow the promise it made to ukraine in 2008 that it could one day join the alines of scrimmage. >> income comes a day after european leaders met in paris to have their own meetings about the war in ukraine. now there are reports that france will host a second meeting on wednesday, in time with a wilder guest list, including european countries like norway, the czech republic and sweden, countries who didn't attend on monday. one country which did attend was spain and i'm joined by the country's former foreign minister. he's now the dean of the paris school of international

affairs. welcome tonight program. it's been a busy week in diplomacy, hasn't it? i wanted to get your take on how strongly you think this european coalition, if you can call it that, is given that europe's been left on the sidelines? >> well, i think europe has demonstrated against all odds that it stands united. it has stooped united for three years. it has provided the largest amount of support, financial and military, to ukraine. it has the largest citizen support in favor of ukraine and it has shown the largest political support for ukraine. so i think for now, the europeans are united and they were in no hurry because i don't think that entering into a negotiation and the pressure is a good omen to exhibit that negotiation on good terms.

>> but without having a seat at the table, at the moment, europe doesn't really have a voice in any of those discussions that the u.s. and russia are having. >> well, let's say that it's a little bit difficult to imagine that the security of an entire continent, in this case, europe, could be designed in an effective manner capable of delivering a long-term stability to the continent without europe sitting at the table. so let's say that if what we're looking for -- and this certainly is what europe is looking for -- is a stability in any solution that is found longer term for the continent, europe has to be at the table starting with the country that has been invaded, ukraine. >> and you talk about europe being at the table. one.

conversations that surrounds in discussion is, of course, how and what a peace keeping mission might look like after that war ends and what european troops would be involved in that. what if have we heard from spain on that? so far it seems like it's only u.k. that has come out decisive in saying it will put forward a peace keeping force. >> seems to me a little bit like putting the horse ahead of the cart. what we need to see first is negotiation on the terms of the cease-fire. we still have russia attacking kyiv as we speak. rusha still saying that it's ok to bomb bard the energy systems of ukraine. what we need first and foremost is find a way to put an end to the fighting and, of course, this needs to be thought through and in needs to be robust

because what we cannot have is another situation lining we had with the minks agreements -- minsk agreements where in reality the fighting never stopped so let's focus on that, focus on what conditions would make for a stable cease-fire and then let's make sure that we have the mechanism to keep the cease-fire workable and working and i am sure, i am convinced that all european countries whether in the european union or outside, the u.k. or norway will donaire best that if there is a good deal about the table they that of they will commit to supporting it. >> as someone who's been a foreign minister of a european nation, how would you describe the current relationship between the trump administration and europe? >> well, i think we've had a

very clarifying muinish security conference and before that a couple of very clarifying days. i have the impression that this u.s. administration looks at the europeans as subordinates, not necessarily as equals. this is what they're saying with what they are doing. but it's not what the trump administration says, wants or thinks is what we europeans, including the united kingdom, of course, do about that. how about are we ready to take our future in our hands? >> really interesting times. thanks for joining us to share your thought. the former foreign minister of spain. around the world and across the u.k., this is becomes news. -- bbc news. ♪

>> breaking news we are

following here on "bbc news" and we have an update on the pope's health. the vatican says that pope francis, in hospital since friday, has by lateral pneumonia but remains in a good mood. it comes as officials cancel the pope's weekend engagements. we'll get an update from our correspondent bethany bell. what is the vatican telling us? >> the vatican says that pope francis has just had a chest c.t. scan and that showed the onset of few mo'ne in both lungs. now, the pope, as we know, has had a respiratory tract infection for which he's been receiving antibiotic cortisone treatments but now the onset of pneumonia is likely to require further treatment. pope is 8 years old.

he's suffered from lung infections a and influencea in recent years he had a pleurisy as a young man, which means part of his luck was removed back then. it's said the pope is in good spirits and spent the day resting, reading and praying ask also expressed his gratitude for well-wishers and he asked them to pray for them. >> thanks for bringing us the latest on that. more on that story on the "bbc news" website. more on our top story, those talks to end the war in ukraine. the british prime minister sir keir stormer aid -- starmer said he'd consider british troops to the ukraine out as a result of a long peace agreement.

>> if british troops were to help maintain a peace deal in ukraine, what would that involve? ukraine's president zelensky says i have a map that shows 110,000 foreigners. one former held of the nato alliance estimates 150,000. whatever the number, it would be spatialer substantial. po land said it wouldn't send troops. germany has said it's completely premature. and while the u.k. is willing. the numbers look difficult. britain has 75,000 full first time personnel plus 24,000 in reserve roles. a deployment in ukraine could deutsche dwarf these commits.

>> frankly, we haven't got the numbers and the equipment to put a large force on the ground for an extended period of time at the moment. >> in the early,000's, they supported a u.n. course in sierra leon but the ukraine plan would be much bigger. it wouldn't be a thato mission. and then, there's russia. it says the appearance of troops from nato countries in ukraine as part of any peace deal is completely unacceptable. put all of this together and in practice the prime minister's proposal would mean significantly expanding the u.k.'s military and a willingness, if need be, to militarily engage russia or its proxies. it's an acknowledgement of how

much has changed. >> taking us through some of the numbers that might be involved. joining me now to discuss that further is dr. neil marvin director of security at the ros:ter: united services institute. welcome to "bbc news." you were listening across to what walt ralls had to say. do you think sir keir stormer's pledge is a realistic one? >> i think he's highlighted many, many questions that haven't been answered by this pledge. what exactly is the force, what are they going to do, where would they be, whose command would they be under, which countries would be involved and the key question is the u.k. actually ready to fight a nuclear superpower in the form of russia for ukraine, and potentially causing an

escalation much broader that they even affect the united kingdom directly. there's very little detail so far and for the moment it must be considered pretty unrealistic this is going to happen. >> quite surprising he made those comments. in that european meeting in paris yesterday, other leaders were saying it's too premature to talk about a peace keeping force. let's get to the talks first. what did you make of sir keir stormer easterlies comments in that context? >> the triggering of the trump team and the statements made last week. almost every about european security is on the table. people are desperate to find a plan that europe can contribute

to. it's clear that you can't be part of the discussions unless you bring something to the table. the trump team has been clear about that. i think keir stormer and others are looking about what can the europeans actually put into this process that will make them be interlockettors in the eventual settlement. >> the future of european security, that is how much money people punishment into defense spending. there have been calls for more countries to up their contributions. the u.k.'s promised to get closer to 2.5, i think it is but of course, all this at a time when the chance el is -- chancellor is trying to balance the books as it is. >> not just the amounts of money but what kind of security are the europeans going to be? are they going to work

together? do it differently? be part of nateo, the european union? other questions in these areas. the u.k. has settled only 2.5%. donald trump has said he wants 5%. already a big gap. long-term deployments of ukraine is going to cost a lot of money. you'll have to grow the army substantially but also protect other parts of europe including the u.k. from potential russia aggressive. 3% is what most experts think is the minimum the u.k. should be looking at. >> we know that sir keir starmer going to washington next week to meet donald trump and in some ways he sees himself as a bit of a bridge between europe and the u.s. from a defense and security point of view what do you think they should be making a priority in those talks with mr. trump?

>> the bottom line is all eur europeans want the u.s. to stay involved. scenarios where the u.k. may begin to pull back from wilder commitment, this is what is running through all the meetings. we saw a paris meeting on monday and another one coming up midweek. the europeans are trying to think through how they can defend their continent if the u.s. is no longer there. the time when we don't really have the resources to do it. >> dr. neil melvin, the director of international security at is the royal uted services institute. thank you very much for sharing your insight on that story. just a reminder, before we leave you this half-hour, we have an update on pope francis's health. the vat can says he's developed

pneumonia in both lungs and that his condition remains complex. he has been suffering from a respiratory infection for more than a week and was admitted to a hospital in rome on friday. we'll have more on that story throughout the evening on the "bbc news." do stay with us. narrator: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... bdo, accountants and advisors, funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation, the judy and peter blum kovler foundation, upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at home and abroad. ♪ ♪ usa today calls it "arguably the best bargain in streaming" that's because the free pbs app let's you watch the best of pbs anytime, anywhere.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ narrator: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... nicole: at bdo i feel like a true individual, people value me for me, they care about what i want,