♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ narrator: funding for presentation of this program

is provided by... erika: i love seeing interns succeed, i love seeing them come back and join engagement teams and seeing where they go from there, i get to watch their personal growth, it makes my heart happy. (laughs) ♪ ♪ narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation, the judy and peter blum kovler foundation, upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at home and abroad. announcer: and now, bbc news. >> hello. i'm caitriona perry live at the white house, and this is "the context." >> you don't have the cards right now. with us, you start having cards. >> right now, you don't. you're playing cards-you're gambling with the lives of millions of people. you are, to world war iii.

>> mr. president, with respect, i think it is disrespectful for you to come into the olufsen title litigate this in front of the media. you should be thanking the president. >> there is an understatement to say that this was, for mr. zelenskyy coming here today, the most critical diplomatic and political moment. and as of now, there is still nothing going the other way for ukraine in terms of security guarantees. an american guarantee of military assistance if war was to break out again. ♪ katrina: extraordinary scenes in the oval office as president donald trump and president zelenskyy class in front of the media. zelenskyy left the white house

early without a deal on minerals after talks broke down. this hour we'll get a reaction from a former advisor to president zelenskyy of where this all leads the ukrainian president and ukraine itself. what does a clash with washington mean for u.s. military support for ukraine. we will speak to the former chief of staff to the u.s. national security council. and where do they u.k. and europe stand in all this as sir keir starmer prepares to host european leaders in london this weekend. ok, let's go through what happened at the white house today. things started off cordelia and as per usual for these events between the two presidents. but doing questions, tensions ran high. voices were raised and an angry president trump warned president volodymyr zelenskyy that he was gambling with world war iii. following the meeting, ukrainian president zelenskyy left the

white house without sending that deal on minerals in ukraine, and canceling a planned press conference. as the ukrainian president departed, president trump wrote on social media, "i have determined that president zelenskyy is not ready for peace if america is involved. he disses back united states of america in its cherished oval office. he can come back when he is ready for peace." let's go back to the start of that meeting, which began in friendlier circumstances with both leaders saying they were ready for an agreement that could help to bring an end to the war in ukraine. let's have a listen back. >> your soldiers have been unbelievably brave. we have given them great equipment and somebody has to use the equipment. they have been unbelievably brave. we give them credit. this was supposed to be over quickly. here we are three years later.

i give tremendous credit to your generals and your soldiers and yourself in the sense that, it's been very hard fighting. very tough fighting. great fighters. you have to be very proud of them from that standpoint. pres. zelenskyy: i am very proud. pres. trump: but now we want to get it over with. it's enough. it's an honor to have you here. thank you for coming. pres. zelenskyy: thank you for the invitation. and i really hope that this document will be the first step to real security guarantees for ukraine and our people, our children are really counting on it. and we found on america will not stop support. for us it's very important to have support. i want to discuss with the further during our conversation. and of course the infrastructure or security guarantees. because today i understand what you wrote is ready to do. and of course i want to discuss with you what the united states will be ready to do.

i really count on your strong position to stop putin. you said enough with the war. i think that is very important to say these words to putin. katrina: those calm and civil discussions then became more heated as the two leaders took questions from the media in the oval office. let's have a listen to that part of the conversation. pres. trump: i didn't align myself with both of them. you'd never have a deal. you want me to say really terrible things about putin and then say hi, vladimira, how are we doing other deal? [laughter] it doesn't work that way. i am not aligned with anybody. i'm aligned with the united states of america and for the good of the world. i'm aligned with the world and i want to this over with. you see the hatred he has got for putin. it's very tough for me to make.

a deal he has tremendous hatred. i can understand that. but i can tell her the other side isn't exactly in love with him either. so it's not a question of alignment. i am aligned with the world. i want to get the thing said -- i'm aligned with europe. i want to get this done. you want me to be tough? i can be tougher than any human being you have ever seen, i'd be so tough, but you would never get a deal that way. that is the way it goes. one more question. vp vance: for four years, the united states of america had a president that stood up at press conferences and talks stuff about vladimir putin and then putin invaded ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country, the path to peace and the path to prosperity is may be engaging in diplomacy. we tried the patter of joe biden, of thumping our chests and pretending that the president of the united states's words mattered more than the actions. what makes america a good country is america engaging in

diplomacy. that's what president trump is doing. pres. zelenskyy: can i ask you? >> sure fish. pres. zelenskyy: he occupied big part of ukraine, part of the east and the crimea. he occupied it in 2014. so during a lot of years -- i am not speaking about just by then, but those times it was obama then president obama than president trump then president biden, now president trump and god bless, now president trump will stop him. but during 2014, nobody stopped him. he just took it. he killed people. pres. trump: 2015. vp vance: 2014. pres. trump: 2014? i was not here. pres. zelenskyy: yes, but during 14 tail 2022, a situation with the same. people have been dying on the contract line. nobody stopped him.

you know, we have conversations, with him a lot of conversations, multilateral conversations. we signed with him, me, like a new president in 2019, i sent with him the deal. i signed with him, and and angela merkel, a ceasefire. all of them told me that he will never go. we signed him, a guest contract. yes. but after that, he broke the cease-fire. he killed our people and he did not exchange prisoners. we signed the exchange of prisoners. but he didn't do it. what kind of diplomacy, jd, you are speaking about? what do you mean? vp vance: i'm talking about the diplomacy that will and the destruction of your country. mr. president, with respect, i think it is disrespectful for you to come to the oval office and try to litigate this in front of. the media right now you guys are

going around forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. . you should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict. pres. zelenskyy: you have never been to ukraine that you can see what problems we have. vp vance: i have actually watched and seen the stories and i know what happens is that you bring people on a propaganda tour, mr. president -- do you disagree you have had problems bringing people into your military? vp vance: we have problems. i will answer it -- vp vance: do you think it is respectful to come and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country? pres. zelenskyy: a lot of questions. let's start from the beginning. first of all, during war, everybody has problems. a venue. you don't feel it now, but you will feel it in the future. pres. trump: you don't know that. pres. zelenskyy: god bless. you don't know that. pres. trump: don't tell us what we are going to feel. you are in no position to dictate that. you are in no position to

dictate what we are going to feel. we're going to feel very good. >> pres. zelenskyy: you will feel influence. you will feel influenced. pres. trump: right now you're not in a very good position. you've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position, and he happens to be right about that. pres. zelenskyy: from the very beginning of the war -- pres. trump: you're not in a good position. you don't have the cards right now. pres. zelenskyy: i am not playing cards. right now, you don't -- [crosstalk] pres. trump: you're playing cards-you're gambling with the lives of millions of people! you're gambling with world war three. you're gambling with world war what you're doing is very three. dis-disrespectful to this country! this country that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have. vp vance: in this entire meeting, have you said "thank you?" you went to pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in october. offer some words of appreciation for the united states of america and the president who is trying to save your country, please.

pres. zelenskyy: please. do you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, -- pres. trump: he's not speaking loudly. he's not speaking loudly. your country is in big trouble. pres. zelenskyy: can i answer? can i answer? pres. trump: no, no, no, you have done a lot of talking. your country is in big trouble. pres. zelenskyy: i know. we are saying -- mr. president, we are staying in our country, staying strong. from the very beginning of the war, we've been alone, and we are thankful. i said thanks in this cabinet. pres. trump: you have not been alone. we gave you through our stupid president, $350 million. we gave you military equipment, and your men are brave-but they had to use our military. pres. zelenskyy: what of view invested in? you invited me to speak -- pres. trump: if you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks. pres. zelenskyy: in three days, i heard it from putin. pres. trump: may be less. pres. zelenskyy: in three days, yes. it may be.

pres. trump: it's going to be very hard to do business like this. vp vance: accept that there are disagreements and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the american media. when you are wrong. we know that you're wrong. pres. trump: but you see i think it's good for the american people to see what's going on. i think it's very important. that's why i kept this going so long. you have to be thankful. you don't have the cards. pres. zelenskyy: i'm thankful. pres. trump: you're buried there. your people are dying. you are running on soldiers. pres. zelenskyy: don't, please, mr. president. pres. trump: listen -- the nutella's, i don't want to cease-fire. i don't want to cease-fire. i wanted this. look, if you can get a ceasefire right now, i tell you-you take it. so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed. pres. zelenskyy: of course, we want to stop the war. but i said to you, with guarantees. pres. trump: you would get a ceasefire faster than -- pres. zelenskyy: ask them what they think. pres. trump: that was not with

me. that was a guy named biden, who was not a smart person. that was with obama. pres. zelenskyy: it was your president. pres. trump: excuse me, that was with obama, who gave you sheets. and i gave you javelins. i gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. obama gave you sheets. in fact, the statement is: obama gave sheets, and trump gave javelins. you've got to be more thankful. because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. with us, you have the cards. without us, you don't have any cards. nearly one more question, mr. vice president -- pres. trump: is going to be a tough deal to make because the attitudes have to change. reporter: what if russia breaks the cease-fire? breaks the peace talks? what do you do then? i understand it is a heated conversation right now. pres. trump: what are you saying? vp vance: she is asking what if russia breaks the cease-fire. pres. zelenskyy: what if anything? what if a bomb drops on your head right now? okay. what if they broke it?

i don't know. they broke it with biden. because biden-they didn't respect him. they didn't respect obama. they respected me. let me tell you, putin went through a hell of a lot with me. he went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and russia -- russia, russia, russia. you ever hear of that deal? that was a phony. that was a phony hunter biden, joe biden scam. hillary clinton. shifty adam schiff. it was a democrat scam. and he had to go through that. and he did go through it. we didn't end up in a war. and he went through it. he was accused of all that stuff. he had nothing to do with it. it came out of hunter biden's bathroom. it came out of hunter biden's bedroom. it was disgusting. and then they said, oh, the laptop from halep was made by russia. the 51 agents. the whole thing was a scam. and he had to put up with that. he was being accused of all that stuff. all i can say is this, he might have broken deals with obama and

bush and he might have broken them with biden -- maybe he did, i don't know what happened. but he didn't break them with me. he wants to make a deal, i don't know if you can make a deal. problem is i have empowered you to be a tough guy. i don't think you would be a tough guy without the united states. your people are very brave. but you are either going to make a deal or we are out. and if we are out, you'll fight it out. it's not going to be pretty. you don't have the cards. but once we sign that deal, you're in a much better position. but you're not acting at all thankful. and that's not a nice thing. i'll be honest. that's not a nice thing. alright, i think we have seen enough. what do you think, huh? this is going to be a great television, i'll say. alright, we will see what we can do about winning. [reporters asking questions] katrina: you have just been

watching their what was the last 10 minutes of an exchange in the oval office that lasted for about 15 minutes in toto, an extremely long time for these type of events. that was the end of it. i'll joined by --i'm joined by our reporter. tell us what happened after that when the media were asked to leave. reporter: we know that zelenskyy and the ukraine antiwar ticket to a separate room and the trump team stayed in the oval office to discuss what was happening. at that point, zelenskyy appears to have been trying to smooth things over, there are suggestions he was trying to kind of wreath at after what was obviously a very hostile exchange. but the trump team felt at that point are disrespected. in particular they seem to have taken objection to him shrugging and perhaps rolling his eyes during their bilateral meeting. at that point once we know he was asked to leave.

marco rubio and mike waltz, the national security advisor, advised that president trump consider the meeting over, essentially and that is when they left. the deal was not signed. they were supposed to have lunch. the food for that lunch for example, was left lying there. it was just a very drastic turn of events and at that point it seems there was no turning it around for the ukrainian side. katrina: in terms of zelenskyy's movements now, he mentioned a number of congress, he was supposed to have a number of engagements this evening. what do we know of those? reporter: he was supposed to be at the hudson institute but that appears to not be happening. the hudson institute says perhaps they are still going forward, but it appears you will not perhaps be there. and later on he has an interview with falk that will still be broadcast about 6:00 our time. i think many people will be waiting to see what he says

about what happened there and where he thinks ukraine is with regards to this deal and any possible peace negotiations, because the trump team is clear they don't believe him to be the partner they are looking for in terms of getting these things done. katrina: we saw senator lindsey graham who had been in the white house expected to be at the press conference for the signing of the deal which we know didn't go ahead. he came out and spoke to reporters a few moments ago and said something along the lines of, we don't think we can do business with someone like zelenskyy. reporter: he says he's not sure if zelenskyy is redeemable in the eyes of the administration and the u.s. people. he said he should resign or find someone else to take control of negotiations, or change. so essentially the message to zelenskyy was change, or don't participate in what we're doing. very strong words from someone who was quite cruel ukraine on

capitol hill up until today. katrina: moments ago really ended. as always, thank you for joining us with those insights. lots more to bring you. stay with us. around the world and across the u.k., this is bbc news. ♪

katrina: you're watching "the context," with me, caitriona perry live at the white house. let's return to those extraordinary scenes from the oval office that we saw in the last couple of hours. president trump clashing with ukrainian president zelenskyy at the two leaders met to discuss bringing an end to the war in ukraine. the meeting ended with an early departure by the ukrainian president, and crucially without the signing of that much-anticipated agreement on ukrainian minerals. let's talk some more about this now. i am joined by alexander, he is

a former advisor to the president of ukraine. great to have you with us here on bbc. first of all, what is your view of what we saw in the oval office today, those exchanges between zelenskyy and the american president and vice president? guest: it's extremely disturbing and disappointing to see all the bad blood, the heated discussions. we are all shocked, to some extent, this is a real paradigm shift, at least as far the communication style is concerned. we will see what this means for the actual actions in the situation on the ground over time. and in general the partnership and support we have been hoping for and receiving the last few years. but clearly there is a crisis here. we will see how this unfolds. katrina: what is it going to maine for ukraine in the short term and for president zelenskyy himself? we have been speaking to

people who joined us from ukraine and talked about missiles still landing and drones flying overhead as they were speaking to us? guest: again, that will depend more on the actions, what is the white house going to say and do now ask initially? will they stop supporting ukraine, are they going to take some of the action? we have already seen communication that they want to investigate spending issues on the military in ukraine, whether there is corruption or not. these are rumors, but this is what i have heard and seen. so that will really dictate what happens going forward. in terms of the communication style itself, that has an effect on morale in ukraine, what our troops see and believe. if they believe now that essentially u.s. support is being stopped, not there anymore, that will have a detrimental effect immediately on the dynamic at the front line, at the very least. katrina: why do you think

president zelenskyy needs to do at this point? an interesting contrast after the meeting, president trump statement, he disrespected the united states of america and its cherished oval office, he can come back when he is ready for peace". whereas president zelenskyy's statement was, we went to work for peace. what is he going to do now? guest: he is not in a position with a lot of bargaining power. so, in that sense, it is frustrating and unfortunate to see president trump communicate the way he does vis-a-vis ukraine, that has been fighting for its survival for more than three years. but there is a grain of truth there. we don't have bargaining although we would have liked to have it. zelenskyy would have to react to this new reality. come to grips with it. and russia as all of the u.s. has a force to be reckoned with. this is a very bad situation for him. clearly there will have to be some compromise if we want to

proceed with negotiations and with a cease fire. and i don't see -- i don't understand why this discussion needs to revolve around previous administrations, what has been done on hasn't been done before. we are really are right now and it is a dire situation for ukraine. katrina: indeed, we know that is something president trump likes to do, referring back to what specifically former president biden and president obama have done in the past. was president zelenskyy ever going to get what he wanted here today? we've heard from president trump all week that he was not prepared to entertain the notion of a security backstop until there was a peace deal done. he said that again in the meeting and that was a key demand of president zelenskyy i've had of today. guest: absolutely. and that is a key expectation for all ukrainians. we have had experiences throughout these 11 years of war if you want, with russia, less

intensely before 2022, a full-scale invasion after 2022. but we know that unfortunately, we could entrust everything the russian leadership was saying. so that's why the population expects some sort of guarantees this time around. if there is a cease fire, we don't want this war to rekindle at some point and russia will be in yet a better position after having regrouped again, to attack us. that is why it is essential for ukraine. but it also makes sense from the perspective of the u.s.. of course president trump wants a quick win, he wants to say he has brokered a deal. but that is not in line with what we want for our security. it's also essential for our development because nobody will invest in ukraine unless there is real security guarantees and certainties. this was something that he wanted to discuss in person to discuss in person, but unfortunately you didn't go there. katrina: indeed. alexander rodnansky

, former advisor to ukrainian president zelenskyy. thank you for joining us here on bbc news. and of course, zelenskyy, once he leaves washington, will make his way to london for that meeting that prime minister sir keir starmer has convened for a sunday where there are at least 13 european leaders expected to gather, to voice their support for ukraine. at that meeting is taking on a whole level of importance after what we have seen here today. stay with us on bbc news. narrator: funding for presentation of this program is provided by... bdo, accountants and advisors, funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation, the judy and peter blum kovler foundation, upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at home and abroad. ♪ ♪ usa today calls it "arguably the best bargain in streaming"

that's because the free pbs app let's you watch the best of pbs anytime, anywhere.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ narrator: funding for presentation of this program