>> good evening. president obama's compromise has angered many in his face. they accuse him of caving to republicans. reaction from one of the senate's most progressive voices. a few thoughts on the passing of elizabeth edwards. she lost her battle with cancer yesterday at the age of 61. and finally, edmund morris is here. his latest text is the final installment of a three part biography of teddy roosevelt, "colonel roosevelt." a look back at our last

conversation with elizabeth edwards. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. >> nationwide is on your side >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> i've said before i felt the middle-class tax cuts were being

held hostage. i think it is tempting not to negotiate with hostage-takers. unless the hostage gets home. then, people will question the wisdom of that strategy. the hostage was the american people in this case. and i was not willing to see them get harmed. i could have enjoyed the battle with republicans over the next month or two. as i said, the american people are on our side. this is not a situation in which i have failed to persuade the american people. i know the polls. they're on our side. >>tavis: president obama defendg his deal. i am pleased to be joined of -- by one of to independence. senator bernie sanders.

always an honor. >> good to be with you. tavis: are you buying his been? >> i am not. the president is absolutely right that it is an outrage that our republican colleagues would hold hostage an extension of benefits for 2 million unemployed workers today. that is an outrage. he is right that it is disgraceful that the republicans are holding hostage tax breaks for 90% of the american people in order to get huge tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires. i think where the president is wrong is not understanding of the american people are totally disgusted by this behavior on the part of the republican leadership and are prepared to fight against it. i think what our job right now is is not to reach an agreement, which is unfair to our kids and

grandchildren who will be paying higher taxes in order to pay off the debt to give tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires. our job right now is to demand our republican friends who tell us every day how concerned they are about this deficit and the national debt, vote against this bill which increased the the national debt. we have to rally the american people and defeat this proposal and come back with something that works for the unemployed in the middle class and not for the rich and business. >> how dtavis: the president seo suggest and said in his remarks that the polls are with him. he believes the polls representing the dew point of the american people are with him. that is opposed to what you have said. when the president says the american public is with him on kaeding this deal, what does he mean? >> no. what the president said

yesterday is the polls are very clear. the american people believe we should extend the tax breaks for the middle class. we should extend unemployment compensation for those people who have lost their jobs. the polls are very clear on that. they're clear that we should not be giving tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires at a time when the top 1% already earns more income than the bottom 50% and the gap between the very rich and everyone else is getting wider. on that issue, the polls are clear. the american people do not want tax breaks for millionaires and driving up the debt. tavis: how is he going to sell this? >> he will not sell this to me. i think we should be doing is working together. the white house, the house, and senate should be going out across this country and making it clear that it is a moral outrage for the republicans to be holding hostages the needs of the middle class for their

billionaire france. if we cave in on this proposal, i will 100% guarantee you that as soon as this cavemen takes place, this vote takes place, the next day or one week or month later, the republicans will say that is a good start. the national debt has gone up. we need to cut social security. medicare, medicaid, education, environmental protection. what these guys will do, having given tax breaks to the rich, driven of the national debt, they will not use that as an opportunity to cut programs. that millions of middle-class and working-class americans depend upon. the fight is going to come in my view, i may be wrong but i do not think so. this republican crew is led by extreme right-wingers. they do not believe that government can do anything good for the american people. they see government as the enemy. they are prepared at any opportunity to cause a

government crisis, to slow down government in order to get their way. have we do not stop them here, this fight will continue on. maybe it will be the debt ceiling. if you do not raise it, we will not vote to raise the debt ceiling unless you cut social security and medicare. tavis: what is your response to those who say the president has struck the right talent -- tone here? he took that shellacking and his deal with republicans strikes a bipartisan tone and that is what the american people want? >> i do not believe that. the polls back me up. the middle class is collapsing right now. the gap between the very rich and everybody else is wider. the vast majority of american people disagree very much. with any extension of tax breaks

for millionaires and billionaires. can you imagine that they're going to be multimillionaires out there who are going to receive $1 million year in tax reductions at the same time as we have senior citizens and disabled veterans who will not get social security? the american people are getting extremely angry at the power of big money, they consistently get their way. the greed of wall street and all these guys to push government to work for them well so many people in this country are desperately trying to pay the bills and keep their families together. we're moving into a type of nation where a few people on the top have incredible wealth and power while the middle class is struggling for survival. this agreement only makes the situation worse. tavis: is the president estimating his base?

iit read the newspapers and listen to the chatter. i'm not saying this to cast aspersion on the president. everywhere i look, everywhere i read, it is apparent -- in appears his base is decimated by his caving on this issue. is that how you read this? >> all i can tell you is yesterday and today, we will have received in my office about 2000 calls. 99% of them are in opposition to this agreement. what the american people want to see in their president is somebody who not necessarily can win every fight, but they want to see him stand up and fight for what he believes. take his case to the american people. when he ran for president, he fought hard and said, i am not going to extend the bush tax cuts for the rich. they have not worked.

the economic philosophy was a failure. under bush, we lost 500,000 private sector jobs while the rich became richer and everyone else became poorer. to give in to this demand, everyone will say, is he ever going to draw the line in the sand? will he ever stand up and fight the fight that has to be fought? the president is underestimating the anger of the american people. they are disgusted with the greed we are seeing for millionaires and billionaires who apparently can never get enough. our friends in wall street are earning more money today than they did before we build them out. while small businesses are going bankrupt. people are losing their homes and savings. unemployment is sky high. i do not think the president is appreciating that anger. to answer your question, a lot of people, i can tell you this personally. people are calling me. people who voted for him are dispirited.

tavis: my granddad always said there is some flights that ain't worth fighting even if you win. there are other fights that you have to fight even if you lose. >> your granddaddy was a smart guy. tavis: thanks for your insights. >> thank you. tavis: edmund morris is next. a few words about elizabeth edwards. she lost her battle with cancer yesterday. in 2004, she joined us on this program from the campaign trail. i closed our conversation by asking her to describe what she most wanted other people to see in her. >> mostly, i think of myself as a mother. i have children in four decades. i guess it will be -- i will put that last one off to college when i am in my 60's. nearly my entire life is defined

by the fact that i am a mother. >> tavis: you say that proudly. i suspect you should. what does it mean for you and what does it give you in terms of context? to have been a mother in four different decades? >> i think one of the things that is helpful is when i am not here talking to people, it means i understand what is happening in their lives. it was not that long ago i was going to work and making school lunches and going off to work, and trying to figure out if i could take my lunch at the same time as the children's dental appointment and figuring out how it will get them -- how i will get them to soccer practice or will i get someone else to bring them back to start dinner. all the things that working mothers do. the fact i have that context in my life makes it easier to talk to people about what is happening in their lives. it probably is helpful. tavis: elizabeth edwards died

yesterday at the age of 61 at her home in north carolina. we're back in a moment. tavis: edmund morris is a pulitzer prize-winning biographer whose book include the reagan biography "dutch". i am honored to have you on the program. we should start with the title, "colonel roosevelt". >> he did not like being called mr. president. unlike most president to want to hang on to the title. he believed the power was finite. supreme power is a gift from the people, which was given to him

for two terms. up to two terms, he decided to leave the white house. one is ben said, what we call you and he said not mr. president. i am not mr. president. you can call me colonel. i got the title fighting in the spanish-american war. i got it in battle. it is an honorable title. you can call me colonel. tavis: i love how you phrase the statement that he decided to leave the white house and he did. there were those who thought and hoped he would run for a third term and he believed he would have won. which leads me to ask, whether or not -- he did not want to be president. did he enjoyed being president? >> he loved it. he did run for a third term. what you are referring to is when he was president, in 19008 -- 1908, he was offered a third term and he pushed it away at

the moment when he wanted it. the sense of finite power. if he felheld onto power too lo, it would begin to correct him, he fell. having spent four years away from the white house, he wanted to get back in. >> he did run for a third term and a man consecutively. let's talk about the point you made. he ran as a third-party candidate. talk to me about this third party. i want to make some parallels to the tea party. >> the parallels occurred to me also a few weeks ago. he did win the republican nomination in 1912. he was a republican. it went to the sitting president, president taft. he had an enormous constituency of progressive republicans and decided to vote the party and

the orthodox republican party and form his own progressive party with a capital p which he did. that is the bull moose party. even though he did not win that year. in 1912, nevertheless, it was an extraordinary political performance. tavis: what made it the most powerful third party run in history? >> the size of the vote. he beat -- he had a larger vote than sitting president. he came in second grade because he split the republican party by voting, he divided the republican vote and woodrow wilson got elected on a minority vote. >tavis: are there parallels between what we are seeing today? >> there are parallels.

the progressive party, 100 years ago, they were a middle-class movement. people who felt they were being excluded from the cozy operations of the government. a conservative congress and the powerful wall street. a president who was sympathetic toward the power structure. these middle class people felt excluded from power. they felt themselves to be victimized by great corporations and corrupt politicians. their anger which had begun to develop during the presidency, inspired by his own instincts, by 1910 and 1911 and 1912, it was formidable. that is one of the reasons he felt to come pelt -- to leave them. the tea party is unified in a

way that they are equally passionate, equally angry and they also feel excluded. the difference is the progressives of 100 years ago were much more innovative. they did not comprise the lower middle class or the working class. there were middle-of-the-road middle class whites. tavis: there is a line i can dro aw to roosevelt to the news of this week. given how progressives today feel in this week so let down by this president, barack obama. there was talk about whether or not there should be a primary challenge to this president on the democratic ticket. a real progressive running

against president obama for the nomination. how would you contextualize and compare that if at all to what we're talking about? >> one has to be careful about these terms, progressive and liberal. they mean different things to different generations. the word progressive now does not mean what it man then. i will say that tr in 1910, campaign for congressional candidates before he greeted this party. he suffered a catastrophic defeat. even though he was not running for office himself. all the kids he tried to help were hindered by his help. -- candidates he tried to help or hinder. -- were hindered. if it is any incursion -- encouragement, he rebounded by that defeat. in 1910, to the point that two

years later, he led this powerful resurgence, this progressive party campaigned that nearly won the election. tavis: thank you for responding. how often does one who was born and raised in kenya get a chance to write a book about a world figure and open the book with this world figure on safari in kenya? >> it was a luxury to write about my country and background. i grew up there and i was born in kenya. the prologue which describe that safari he conducted in 1909 and 1910, it came naturally to me. to describe that in vernon. it was also emotionally moving. -- to describe that environment. i saw a photograph of him in a local civic history.

this famous american president who had come to kenya. there was something about his face and his smile and his mustache. his helmet and his americanness that attracted thmeat. he looked like fun. i think that image stayed in my head. >> you recall that image from being a boy. tavis: and you ended up writing a trilogy. >> i might have changed my mind. tavis: what makes him the kind of character or the -- the weight is there to support a trilogy? >> the fact it was not a politician. if he had been, i would not have wanted to write about him. he was so polygonal. he was a writer and an

intellectual. his literary output was enormous. his disciplines encompassed science, biology, paleontology, ornithology, as well as history and biography. he was funny. one of the funniest man who lived. he was a really rounded, rich personality and a delight for any biographer. tavis: you spent a good part of this book talking about the issue of race. after digging through it, i am not sure -- i get the sense at this point, he fancies himself more progressive, more advanced on the issue of race that he really was. i am suggesting for all he

thought he did do, it seems to me to be more symbolic than substantive. >> although his attitude was complex, like many -- all patrician white men of the time, he regarded himself as belonging to a superior breed. that is no question. in comparison, he was comparatively inland. the first person to be called upon to consort with him after the assassination of kimmie was booker t. washington, who was already his friend and whom he believed to be one of the greatest men he had already met. he consulted him and invited dr. washington to dinner in the white house within weeks of becoming president. creating a fire storm of historical resentments -- hysterical resentment in

washington. after that genuinely enlightened and courageous gesture, he began to retreat. although he continued to be friends and colleagues, he never invited him back. in 1906, he did a dreadful thing. the worst mistake of his presidency. when he dishonorably discharged our regimen of black soldiers in brownsville, texas. allegations they had rioted and killed a white citizen. trumped up charges which he believed. he made a mistake in firing these guys. he realized he had made a mistake. he never rescinded it.

from then, his relationships were fraught. booker t. washington -- [unintelligible] tavis: the new book from edmund morris is called "colonel roosevelt". congratulations. that is our show for tonight. thanks for tuning in. keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org baxter and me next time for conversation with the cabinet on his -- with dick cavett.

>> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. thank you. >> be more.