tavis: good evening from los angeles. i'm it was a smile -- i'm tavis smiley. how to fix education with colorado senator michael bennett. the former superintendent of the denver public system has outlined a plan for fostering a new generation of great teachers in america and doing more with less in the era of shrinking budgets. also a rising star in the ballet, misty copeland. she is the first african-american female soloist in the history of the american ballet theater who recently toured with music icon prince. we're glad you've joined us. colorado senator michael bennett and ballet dancer misty copeland coming up right now. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live

better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. >> nationwide is on your side >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- tavis: senator michael bennett is serving his first full term in the u.s. senate following his time as the superintendent of the denver public school system. his victory that is last november over a tea party-backed candidate was one of the few bright spots for democrats in the mid-term elections. senator bennett, good to have

you on this program. >> it's great to be here. thanks for having me. tavis: my pleasure. let me start with some. news of the day internationally and the all-important issue of education. so president made a statement about the bloodshed in libya. it's been noted that he did not mention muammar gaddafi by name. is that to your mind an observation by the president or solidarity with the libyan people? two different things. >> it certainly solidarity with the libyan people and i don't know why the president didn't mention gaddafi. it may have been because he doesn't want to back him into a corner at a moment when it may be that he will leave. i hope that the world can learn a lesson from egypt and what we saw there, which was largely peaceful demonstrations, not violence, from the government or from the protesters and we had the chance now for democratic elections in egypt, which three weeks ago nobody would have even imagined. tavis: the world you said should learn lessons from egypt. what should we the american body politick learn from egypt?

we weren't on any given day, i wasn't sure where our government was on what was happening in egypt. do we want mubarak to stay? are we trying to cut a deal or negotiating with him? are we on the side of the people, the power? i don't want to see the same thing happen in libya where we're making observations as opposed to being in solidarity with. >> well, i think that to my mind, the egypt crisis was handled extremely well. i thought by the administration. and some of the stuff, you don't know from one day to the next what's going to happen and that can be frustrating to people. the one thing we do learn from all of this is that there's a real hunger in the middle east among a lot of people that have felt oppressed and kept down for a long time with rising food prices and other kinds of things. the egyptianings want an economy that would work for them and hope they can build one with a secular government. tavis: ole prices are creeping up given what's happening in libya. so should the american people be concerned and how concerned should we be about $4 gasoline plus this summer? >> it's not going to help us

with our economic recovery. but i think there's a more important and fundamental question is -- which is how long is it going to be the energy policy of the united states that we want to choose to ship billions of dollars a week of our treasure to the persian gulf? for the privilege of buying their oil. we should have an energy policy here that's producing our energy domestically, creating jobs here in the united states, and giving us a much more secure national security than we have today as a result of frankly having no energy policy. tavis: everybody in washington, republican or democrat, has some statement, some sentiment near what you've just said about the fact that we need a new energy policy. and even though i see these reasons as the american public sees every single day especially what's happening in libya but there's no shortage of reasons why we have to enact what you've just said. and yet, there ain't no energy policy forthcoming, what's the problem? >> the problem is a lot of what happens in washington and a lot of reasons seems broken to people is because it's completely wrapped around the special interests. what looks like a partisan debate to people is not

strictly speaking in my view in the sense that it's a battle of ideas. what it is is a battle of a bunch of special interests that are trying to protect their incumbent interests and by definition, are therefore backward looking rather than supporting the innovation we need in the 21st century. our economy needs to be the most innovative economy in the world if we're going to be able to compete. this also relates to the education conversation. but we need to make sure policies are supporting the innovators and entrepreneurs and people in my state, for example, that are figuring out how to wed natural gas and clean technology together to create energy independence for our state even that we're working on now. so we got -- it's going to take leadership just like everything else. the debt and deficit and everything else. tavis: you mentioned education i'll take your segue and roll into that. a little weird because and those who watch the show know this, for me no issue more important than education so it seems to me weird to be second behind world events but i digress. one of the major issues right

now, advice see education -- vis-a-vis education is no child left behind. we hope between now and when kids go back it school in the fall what will happen with no child left behind, mr. superintendent? >> we have done -- the one thing that no child left behind has done which is a benefit is it's shown us in a very crude way how catastrophic the outcops are for children, especially children living in poverty and i choose that word carefully. catastrophic is what it is. i mean, our kids from poverty are showing up at kindergarten with a third the number of words that they've heard as more affluent children. and only nine out of 100 kids coming from a poor zip code in this country can expect to graduate wait from a four-year college. which means that 91 are not. at the eighth grade only 16 or 17 of those 100 kids are proficient readers or mathematicians. those are the kinds of outcomes that no one with an education

would ever tolerate for their kids. so we got to change the system. and my view coming out of the superintendent is almost everything, all the incentives and disincentives in the system are not aligned to the outcomes we want for kids at the end of the day. and what we can do at the federal government is limit it but one of the things we can do is incentivize the work of people that are trying to do it differently. which is -- happy to say more and more the case. that there are people trying to do the work differently all across the country. tavis: given your point, i assume that means that you agree with and if not tell me, your view, on the incentivizing program as they would put it that the obama administration has rolled out called race to the top. >> i agree with it strongly. never has such a small amount of money. it's big money by our standards. but not by the federal government standards. $4 billion or $5 billion. there are states all over the country that changed a lot of antiquated rules in order to be eligible for that money. colorado is one of them. we were very unjustly denied that money. and i still --

tavis: i knew that was coming. >> but i still support the program. look, it's time for us to admit that we spend a lot of time in the popular press talking about how we're losing the race for mathematicians and losing the rase for engineers. and that's true. but we're also losing the race for people to teach people to be mathematicians and engineers. and the reason for that is that we architected that system, how we pay teachers, how we train teachers and how we educate teachers. in a labor market that discriminated against women and said you got two choices. one is being a teacher and one is being a nurse and how come -- about teaching julius caesar 30 years of your life at a low current compensation but with a pension at the end. it's time to admit to ourselves that that set of incentives will not work for people coming out of clemming today that we need -- of college today that we need in the classroom. tavis: something radical, my word not yours, something radical has to be done to get education right in this country. however we define that. something really radical. ultimately has to happen. i said on this program before,

i don't think education ought to be a race. i think in this country education ought to be a right. i've also said on this program that -- we should consider something really radical like a constitutional amendment that guarantees every child in this country access to an equal, high quality education. and that doesn't -- you can't prejudge outcomes. but you well know having been a superintendent, that in 50 states in this country, we got 50 different ways of doing it and depending on what state you're in, your allotment for money for education is different. washington state has a lot more money than mississippi does. dedicated to education because we got these different models that don't work. what about a constitutional amendment that guarantees every child at least at the same starting point access to an equal high quality education? >> well, i don't know about the amendment. i haven't thought about. that tavis: it's a radical con segment. >> it seems it's a fundamental part of our creed that as land of opportunity, we're a place that if you show up, and you work hard, and you do what you're supposed to do, that you

can succeed. and that your family can succeed as a result. you can provide more for your kids and for your grandkids. we came out of a decade even before this recession. first decade in our country's history where median family income actually fell. never has happened before. so the families in my state are earning less at the end of the decade than they were at the beginning but their cost of higher education has gone up by 40% and cost of health care is up by more than that. people are having a hard time getting ahead. you take all of that, and you -- you think about it through the eyes of a child living in poverty and what -- one of america's cities and what chance do they really have? there are whole places in this country, in cities like the one we're sitting in right now, where you can ride any bus you want and you won't find a school that you or i would send our kids. tavis: you're making my-minute and i agree -- making my point and i agree, this creed is not being actualized and what you're suggesting is race and class is a part of that and

nobody wants to acknowledge it. . >> and also right that it's not being actualized anywhere. tavis: it is being actualized in certain places. that's my point about the role that race and class play in the education debate. >> the question is to the extent that we do find successes, the top of the mind, the achievement first schools in connecticut. that outperform not only the schools in new haven but outperform the schools in the state of connecticut. one of the most affluent states in the country with the children that are exactly the children that we're talking about. it proves it can be done. and i've seen where it is done. it has not -- the mandates that people like me, superintendents, try to impose tend not to work. what tends to work is incentivizing a group of adults that are in a building to want to pull together with a visionary leader. you really need a great principal to do the work. and who's focus is not just on teaching kids but that's very important. but their focus is on perfecting their crast as

teachers. that is the difference between a school that can succeed with children living in poverty and a school that can't. tavis: how much of this has to do -- it sounds silly but let me, how much of this has to do with the fact we live in a country where we don't really elevate and celebrate and revel in what teachers do? there are all kind of folk that get more love than teachers do and there aren't a lot of folk rushing to become teachers even. >> that's a huge piece of this. and i was talking earlier about the labor market that said you can be a teacher and be a nurse, and there were -- there's a real chance you will get the best british literature student in her class to be your british literature teacher. under those circumstances. now there are a million things that she can do. and we have to make the profession more attractive. it's not just about pay. it's also about leadership and working conditions. and we have to start behaving like this is the most important job that's out there.

it's the hardest job and much harder than yours or mine but we treat it like an afterthought. let me give you an example and the resource you raised a men ago. -- a men ago. and i -- the reason we budget at the district level and what the federal government insists on in reporting, if you're a poor child in this country you are likely to be in a high poverty school where the teachers are paid less than in a more affluent school where they've been around for a longer period of time. but both schools are billed at the average teacher salary. which means there's a huge subsidy running from poor children in the country to more affluent children who also need to be served. but we shouldn't kid ourselves about what we're doing. we're one of three countries that spends more money on its wealthier kids than its poor kids. tavis: i'm out of time but one more question and i'll ask this question. you can find his answer to the question on our website at pbs.org. and given what we see happening in wisconsin specifically but now spreading to ohio and indiana and other places, specifically in wisconsin, what this means for the future of

teachers given how they seem to be under attack by certain people in wisconsin. we'll get senator bennett's response to that after i tell him thank you for coming on the program. >> thank you for having me. tavis: good to have you here. next, a rising star in the world of ball the, misty copeland. stay with us. misty copeland is a talented ballet dancer and the first african-american female soloist at the american ballet theater. she's also recently toured with our friend prince which follows her appearance in his video. crimson and closer. before we get to that, here she is in a performance of the ballet gisele. ♪ ♪

[applause] tavis: yeah, exactly. i wanted you hear because you're good and i wanted you here because i saw you at madison square garden with prince and i had a chance to meet you and want you to be here because you made some history being the first african-american soloist but the timing of our conversation couldn't be more propitious. couldn't be more timely. so what do you make of all the energy around -- around ballet thanks to the film? >> it's exciting. but we're getting the recognition, i feel like we should, this art form should get. you know, i think it has a reputation for being very elite. and people feel like they can't relate to it. so it's great that hollywood and the hip-hop industry, the

music industry, is taken notice. and involving us and i think it's great. >> you think it is an elitist art form? >> just because i think it takes money to -- you know, get the right training. and so therefore, it has been considered elite art form. tavis: yeah. how did it happen for you then? if it takes a bunch of money unless you tell me you're independently wealthy i didn't know that, i didn't come across that in my research but your mama to the side shaking her head no, not because we're independently wealthy. so since it is an expensive venture, how did it happen for you? >> ballet found me i guess you could say. i was discovered by a teacher in middle school. i always danced my whole life. i never had any training and never was exposed to seeing dance. but i always had something inside of me. i loved to choreograph and dance around. and i had a teacher when i was trying out for the cheerleading

drill team and she noticed my talent. and suggested that i take ballet lessons and i was 13. tavis: is 13 a little -- it sounds funny to say, is 13 a little old? to be starting ballet? >> 13 is very late age. especially for a woman. it's more common with men. because you have to get the body before it changes. so that you can mold it. so yes, i started at a late age. and i decided within a couple of months that i was going to do this professionally. because i didn't have much time to get the right training. so i decided i was going to devote everything. and so for the next four years, i trained and then joined american ballet theater. tavis: how do you in the space of time where you're already starting late, make up that ground and become good at it? >> finding great training, i think, is number one. did a lot of research and found really great teachers.

and just takes -- i took a year off from school and went to independent studies. so that i could devote all of my time to it. but i think that training is the key. definitely. and i devoted my life to it. i still am doing that. tavis: speaking of training, one can't see this moach "black swan." -- this movie "black swan." and walk away not just feeling for the dancer. this thing, it's beautiful to see. let me put it this way. i don't know that i've ever seen anything so beautiful and yet so painful. and i see you smiling already. you know where i'm going with this. it's a beautiful thing to watch. but it looks like you go through so much pain to make all that happen. so is the movie accurate, is it incat, is it -- inaccurate, is it -- >> it draws from things that i'm sure a lot of dancers have gone through and that's a littl but i think it's a great

portrayal of how much we -- how much dedication and hard work it takes and how much we put into doing a role. it's just like an actor would. preparing for a role. i think that because it's an art form people don't get to see the other side. it not a sport -- it's not a sport. so we're not supposed to make it look leak it's work, like it's hard. tavis: but it is. >> it's extremely, extremely difficult. tavis: on a regular basis, what kind of -- how do you -- for those of us who go to a gym regularly, on any given day, will you football feeling some pain depending what the workout was, how do you physically feel most of the time? are you toes hurting or how do you feel typically? >> there are things that your body gets used to. when i was younger, my feet would hurt a lot. but you build up calluses and strength. and you don't feel as much pain

there. but then again, it's a give and take. you may feel pain in your back or your hips. but i think that once you make it to a level with the company as prestigious as american ballet theater you have to be built for it. i think. which makes it easier on the body. tavis: to your point of being in the american ballet theater, i always feel a little -- a certain way about african-americans who are accomplishing first. and i especially feel that way, these days, here we are in 2011, and there's still so many things that african-americans have yet had a chance to do. so that on the one hand, you celebrate misty, you celebrate barack obama and any number of african-americans doing things for the first time but do we make too big of deal out of that and does it put a certain level of pressure on the person who knows they are the first to respond in a certain way? that's a mouthful. respond in any way you want to respond. >> i think it depends on the

person. i've never felt pressure. i think that i've stepped into i guess this role with pride. and i think it's amazing to be able to be i guess successful and get it out there to other black dancers that they can do it. and that i'm here. and i've gotten nothing but warmth from the black community. and positive feedback. tavis: do you see others, other young women, other young men, of color, pursuing this kind of career path or is there still a complete dearth and paucity of african-american dancers? >> i've seen more. but they're out there.

i just think that they're not being -- given the opportunities to -- tavis: be exposed. >> audition or get into a company of this caliber. but they're there. there are so many talented black ball the dancers out -- black ballet dancers out there. they just have to be gimp the opportunity. -- given the opportunity. tavis: what happens when your talent and gift hooks up with a guy like prince? everybody knows i love him. that's my guy. but when he gives you a chance to be exposed, puts you in a video, puts you on stage with him, sold out shows at madison square garden and etc., etc., what does that do for your exposure and your exposure on a personal level? what's that do for you number one? and number two what do you think it does for the art form? in terms of exposing it and courtesy of prince to other african-americans? >> i think that it's incredible what he's doing. he has so much respect for every art form.

and i think it's great that everyone at madison square garden -- those who haven't seen classical ballet in their life and doing a great thing exposing people and hopefully they will come to the metropolitan opera house and not feel like it's too, i don't know how to say, out of their league or something. tavis: are there purists in your world who would look at something, even though it's with this iconic artist prince who look at you on stage at madison square garden and say she is bastardizing the art form and hanging out with prince on stage at madison square garden, that's not what the american ballet theater is all about, are there purists who get attitude about stuff thrike that? >> i don't think so. and i haven't experienced it. i think it's great for the culture. for it to be exposed. but also at the same time i've -- i feel like i'm respectful to what i do in my company. and it's great that i'm being

given these opportunities with prince. but i'm a classical ballet dancer and at the end of the day, i want to be with american ballet theater performing classical ballets. tavis: prince ain't a bad dancer himself. >> no. tavis: the best part of the story for me, and i had no idea until we started doing the research, when we knew we had the opportunity to talk to you, you grew up like down the road from here. like who knew that you grew up -- you're making this history and you're on the world stage, literally at the american ballet theater, world stage with prince and you grew up in san pedro? >> i did. i grew up in san pedro, california. tavis: how is that possible? >> a small town. and it's really amazing that i was discovered. and i've been given these great opportunities to travel the world and work with amazing artists. and i'm very blessed. tavis: yeah. and so are we because of your gift. so the next time you get asked

can anything good come out of san pedro, the answer is yes. mist mist has -- misty copeland as the first african-american soloist with the american ballet theater and wonderful company and if you're fortunate enough and their schedules continue to mesh and you catch her on the road anywhere with our friend prince it is a show and a performance you will absolutely enjoy. misty, congratulations. thank you for coming on the program. >> thank you very much. tavis: that's our show for tonight. until next time, thanks nor watching pbs, good night from l.a. and keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: i'm tavis smiley showing me next time with potential g.o.p. presidential candidate muck huckabee and legendary tv producer george slatter next time. -- schlatter next time. see you then.

>> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.