tavis: good evening, tonight, a conversation with a claim richard.homas charre the book deals with his childhood in visibility and have added a good his church and development. the new text is called "house of prayer #2." we're glad you have joined us. >> all i know is that his name is james and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference. >> thank you. >> you make us all look better. >> with every question and every

dancer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis to improve literacy. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> mark richard is a writer who has a collection of short stories and the novel "fishboy." his latest novel is a memoir. we're glad to have on the program. >> i am delighted to be here. tavis: this is your for stab at

nonfiction. what do you make of it? >> it is a story that found me. it is a story that i felt i had to write. thvoice it in the pos that spoke to me. tavis: how does one write a inmoir without the word "i" the text? >> if you have something to tell somebody that you are not certain they will accept it or believe it right away, have you not always been told -- but some leases, which did you do to your car? you know, down there at the turn and there is a little tight and you do not know if you can make it -- it gets to a point where something incredible happens and you say "you" so you can incorporate them into the narrative. it was suggested to me a couple of weeks ago that the bible has

so much second person. maybe that in tuesday. but i think it gave me a little distance early on to talk about more personal things, which was my hips and all that. later, it allowed me to get into more spiritual aspects of the trip. tavis: you said two things that have to go back to a very quick. the first is the hips. i will let you explain that. you mentioned the bible. there are a couple of questions that i want to ask about that that you talk about in the book. for people who do not know your personal story, the hits that you referred to -- >> as a child in the late 1950's and the 1960's, the defining moment with my hips was that it was a weird congenital fit -- a weird form a congenital displays appear and the doctor said, regardless of what we do, your son will be in a wheelchair by the time he is 30. i heard that at 10 years old.

it's set me off in a couple of different courses. number one, cram as much life into my life as i could. no. 2, a deep and resentment -- a deep anger and resentment toward god. tavis: about that, to issues, one is funny and one is not so funny. the not so funny first -- when you're a child, spending some time in hospitals and in rehab, having some time having surgeries, there is a part in the book that is arresting when you say that you would walk around the hospital and look and see so manyibs gods mistakes. >> which i felt one of. you are called the special child in the south for many reasons, none of them flattering. but this was one place in the

crippled children's hospital where i was one of those. i was not special. that possibly gave me -- it changed my world view. we are all flawed. some of us make it and some of us do not. some of this literally do not make it. i had friends in the hospital did not make it. back then, they used to treat children with bone cancer with amputations. i would go home for a break and come back and they will lose a leg. i would go home and come back and they would lose both leagues. and then i would go home and come back and ask where is jerry? and jerry was dead. tavis: there were some moments that were funny but that was not one of them. >> that was not the funny one. quoteunny one is a bible of that said "suffer the little

children to come in to me." tavis: you did not get that. >> i never got it. i am not sure the of the kids even looked at it. but to said that? jesus christ did, man. well, i do not want to know him. i do not want to know him at all. making little children to suffer to come to him first. i was not going to be on board with that. tavis: scripture trip you build it. >> a little bit. tavis: when you were a child, there were some teachers, some adults, who sought in view the genius that we now appreciate. some saw that the genius early on. some thought that you were mentally retarded. how does one person -- >> it was difficult for my

parents. some teachers would go, you have to get this boy tested. he is coming to school. he has a big wad of confederate money he is trying to spend. he is drawing pictures of chinese junk coming to the new world for thanksgiving. [laughter] but he cannot coverage -- he cannot color the state bird. but i was an early reader and i could read my father's college textbooks. i had no comprehension, but i could sound it out. so they were all confused. we were all confused about that. talk about people who are influential -- a blessing was that i had, at every step of the way, somebody who put their hand literally or figuratively on my shoulder. it could have been the black coach when we integrated, coach sam which, god bless him. he did not let me cut his head -- cut phys ed.

he said, you are going to do laps. even if you have to use your kaine around the field. he was the only person who can ditch on me when i was home. -- who came in to check on me when i was home. there was a preacher who came over and put his hand on my shoulder and said, "mark, god has his hand on your shoulder." i am sure you would not remember that to this day. i remembered it. my trip in this book is that there are so many people along the way to touch you when you need to be touched, that help you in a way that they have forgotten. i am sure you have found it, too. people write to you later, you know, that one thing that you did that you forgot, that prayer at dinner, that book when you

were in class, you fundamentally change their life. so you do not know. tavis: what does it mean, though, when you are shunned, cast aside by certain folks in the community? some teachers think your retarded and they're telling your parents to get you tested because they do not see your genius. some of those folks are black folks. you are in the south. you have black folks affirming your humanity while they are being treated -- you see where i'm going with this. >> absolutely. you have to remember this was in the 1960's. tavis: it was jim crow. >> in some aspects, it defines my town to this day. someone to put a statue of nat

turner up in the park with concrete and immoral and others say, "are you crazy? that guy is a mass murderer." we are not from there. we are cajun. i guess we are more white than not. but the country club was not our first stop. [laughter] for us and i think for my family, it felt more normal -- for me, it was ok. it is hard to describe. in this instance, one way the coach was going to help the integration along was to be a good example and to be a loving person, love, kindness, do justice, walk humbly with god. that was my coach. i love -- i learned a lot from that man. right before we entered into that, it was black schools/white schools.

then boom. i had the coach, who i had never met. and i with -- and i was with kids i had never met. tavis: there is another arresting story in this book of a kid who brought something to school. i will lead to share the story. >> fifth grade show and tell, i had just come out of the hospital. it was mostly white kids from appellation and black kids from inner city. a kid from the county brings a board to school with a carpet tacks on a. i did not know what it was feared he said it was a family heirloom. it was a piece of nat turner skin. tavis: a family heirloom? a piece of nat turner's skin? >> i was in fifth grade. i estimate that my head around that. i think that is -- i still cannot get my head around that. i think that is a big part of

this book. i know his school is in chicago. his bible is in -- his s kull is in chicago. his bible is in virginia beach. when they caught him, they hung him. they cut his head off. they put his head. they skin him and boil them in the fat. they made bible covers and coin purses. i wanted to ask people how this came into their possession. you know? as you can imagine, those are a lot of dead ends. people don't want to talk about it. a lot of people have come forward and said, by the way, my daddy had -- but they would never cop to it or show it to you. that interested me. how could you do this?

tavis: somewhere along the way, what you thought would be a good cook proposal and the shifting. it is the book we have now. tell me about the shift, how it came to this. >> i think the shift came in that i hit that dead and and it actually said wade into what you're asking. at the same time, a very interesting man was my father, but a strange cat. when he left the house, my mother had no skills. she began a night shift at the hospital. her friends were a lot of the women who worked that shift, a lot of the black nurses and people who work in the administration. they were prayer warriors. tavis: my mom is one right now. >> mamen.

she started going to their church. she went to her little white a visible church in the morning and go to house of prayer in the afternoon. tavis: you know they would be going all day anyway. in a white church, you are out in 60 minutes. in a negro church, you're there all day. [laughter] >> she came out one time -- i used to have to take her. oh, man, the pews are hard as coal. the 12 listed not work. the house was in the back -- the toilets did not work. the out house was in the back. how many collections or how many sermons? this church was one of each. and then you go to the country club. [laughter] and i remembered distinctly this

afternoon, it was raining. i was taking her home. the sermon was about jacob. then it was about fighting. i said, you know what. i was a snarky guy. i said what i will do. the next big check i get, i will tithed & to get a space heater so i can -- i will tied 10% to get a space heater so i can come back. one voice sent you did not have to do. the other voice said 10% net or gross? [laughter] one of my spiritual brothers is a man i know. i know you have been looking at

a property, but i think i may have some seed money. he said, ok. he was not excited or anything. he knew it was god's plan. he knew this was going to happen. it started us on this journey. we looked at other property. we looked at tearing the church down. then we were looking at getting trusty convict labor, but you have to have the materials. do not go too fast. we only have four pallets of bricks. but his faith sustain him through the whole process. i had seen the collections taken up. it was just dollars. we wanted to a church with this? we did a church with that. if you go on his web site, house of prayer holiness, pastor see

is rex, it is a beautiful church. so many miracles happen along the way to build this church in my hometown. coincidentally, the sermon was about jacob who left and had to come back. you have to come back to where you started from. he was absolutely right. that sermon was speaking to me. i did not hear it at the time. i have heard it now. [laughter] it is very exciting. i spoke to him this morning and i told him i was going to be on your show. he was very happy. he said a prayer for clarity of thought and clinics of tongue. tavis: he is working it out. >> he said, if you walk in there, you will not be alone. tavis: i think the moral of the story is that we have to be out of the churches that our mom turned the sun to. i went home. i grew up in a holiness church.

another is a minister in a holiness church. i still go to a holiness church. i go in for christmas and i am sitting there and the minister talks about how the air conditioning and heating unit has gone out. he looks over kind of in my direction. is he looking at me? i was home one day for christmas. i ended up writing a big check to get the air conditioning and heating unit back on line. you know that when you do that and that kind ofing giving, you will be blessed. you cannot out-give god. as you well know, dr. king said this many years ago, that the most segregated time of the week in this country is sunday morning. white folks go to their church. black folks go to their church. sunday morning is the most segregated time in this country.

you now see some multiculturalism, some of that. but i am curious of what you have learned. what did you take away from the episcopal church and visiting, spending time in a different kind of holiness black church? >> i have never been asked that. we still go to both. but we're still the only white congregants at house of prayer. look, we are christians. we are still living in the word and trying to read here to the two british commandments. -- two greatest commandments. we are all neighbors. it is a sense of who our neighbors are. i know who my neighbors are now. that's what we understand as people, who our neighbors are. the hungry, the thursday, the

greeting, -- the hungry, the ieving., the greetin what do we want out of this? what do we really hope for? i do not think that pastor rick's conservation is going to that church. but he says that he's getting some drug buys -- some drive- bys. we have expanded. we have used for people to sit in. we are loving god and we're loving our neighbor together. who is our neighbor? it is you and me and everyone else. i think that is where we are going. tavis: i want to circle back to the conversation we had privately. you sat down and says something

-- you sense -- you sat down and said something profound. if you survive your childhood, you have a story to tell. for all that we have talked about in this conversation, let's get a sense from you. how do survive the childhood, for all that you had to endure, the hips, being labeled mentally retarded, etc., etc., etc. how do survive that childhood? >> there were two big things. my mother would go to the library and get your free bags full of books. i was in a body cast, face up or face down. books got me on my mind. i had those people, when i got out and i was on crutches and i was week, had people coming up to me, like the coach who pushed me.

tough hutchins, we call them the preacher, who would come up and affirmed me. i was blessed with people like that. in the absence of my father. and in the absence of god. at the time, i did not believe. i guess i believe in god as a child believes, but i felt an absence of his love. if you love me, why would you do this to my body? if you love me, why? tavis: had to navigate past that or through that? -- how do you navigate past that or through that? >> my spiritual what has been slippery. as i have gotten to be an adult, i have gone back to loving god and loving your neighbor. if you want to feel the presence of god, it is a simple little trick. you love your neighbor. when your counter helping the person who is homeless,

thursday, starting -- homeless, ,hirsty, starving, grieving you may catch a glimpse of god passing through. for me, it is just a glimpse. i am suspicious of people who have all the answers. that is where i found it. it is not looking up and pleading with the heavens. it is me getting down and trying to lift somebody else up. that is when i feel the presence of god. it is a selfish thing for me. i feel good when i do. i know i am helping them, but it is affirming for me. i know you know what i am talking about tavis: in . tavis: amen. you have students. what are you teaching them? >> i am teaching at usc's masters of professional writing program.

i am also working on a tv show. i am trying to teach my students to tell the truth. tavis: that is so rare these days. >> the truth means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. can you write something that can help someone get it through their life? can you write something that makes a sense -- to me what it means to be human. i saw this story last night about science fiction and this and that. just talk to me about a conversation with a dying parent. write a story about that in an honest way. even things that are not flattering. we have a little voices. he says things about a dying parent that are not flattering to anybody. but it is true. it is not hearts and flowers and gumdrops and rainbows. tavis: you mentioned a while ago

that you saw a glimpse of god. i think i have seen a glimpse of god. the new text is called "the house of prayer #2." i am so glad i had on this program. i have been uplifted by this conversation. >> i enjoyed it. tavis: you worked it out. i appreciate it. i will see you back on pbs. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show today's showt visit -- for more information on today's show, visits tavis smiley on pbs.

>> all i know is that he needs help with his reading. >> helping you all live better. >> nationwide supports tavis smiley. working together to help remove obstacles and bring impairment. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. d seen

this kind of case before, i have a pretty good idea of what i'm going to find inside of it. because these leather cases with gilding were actually what you got a nice cup from from the sevres factory in the 18th century. and this is a sevres cup from the 18th century. how long has it been in australia? that one is difficult. probably 100 years.

- i'm not sure. - this cup we know, because it's got an "f" on it, was actually made in 1757. this lovely-- what is called a bleu lapis ground, you see, it's got a blotched blue and then the gilding, very finely done with a honey flux to it and then engraved to give it life, that's what only the sevres factory did. and that's what makes this very very exciting. so with this fantastic case, and the case is very important, it's probably worth $7,000 or $8,000... - that's extraordinary. - ...or maybe a bit more. if it came up in the european market, it's quite possible it would fetch as much as £7,000-10,000, because it's such a very specialized and french-taste thing. and i find i've got a row of no less than six golfing buttons, it sets the pulse racing for a few people.

do you come from a golfing family? i don't, not that i know anyway. - so you're not a golf widow or anything like that? - no no. well, they're printed on celluloid, so it's a sort of an early form of plastic. the fact that they're wearing the sort of costumes that we've got here dates them to probably around about 1910, maybe 1920. golf collectors, you know, they're on an international scale these days, you know? so if you were to put something like this up for auction, what do you reckon they'd be valued at? - i have no idea. - do you wanna have a stab? - £100? - £100. actually, if you could get these for £100, you'd be doing very nicely, because you wouldn't get them for less than £400. really? - i wouldn't tell you a fib. - no.