tavis: good evening from los angeles. first up tonight, our conversation with the in the gatt -- indiana governor and potential gop candidates, mitch daniels. he is now in a similar budget crisis similar to that in wisconsin despite calls from the gop for him to run for the white house in 2012. also environmental advocate an actor, ted danson, is here. the new text is called oceana. if we are glad you joined us, on a governor and daniels an actor ted danson coming up right now. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better.

>> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. >> nationwide is on your side >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: mitch daniels is serving as -- in his second term as governor of indiana. he is also on many people's list of who they would like to seek the presidential nomination to

channel -- challenged president obama in 2012. gov. daniels, good to have you back on the program, sir. >> tavis, you are still on the -- the top of the list of the hoosiers we are proud of tavis: thank you for that. the state is once again making national news. we'll get to some other stuff in a moment. as we speak tonight, the democrats who ran out of indiana to illinois who did not want to be part of this legislative agenda. they were supposed to come back today. the same thing happened in wisconsin. update the first on whether or not the legislature is going to get moving in indiana. >> i am not taking anything to the bank with these folks until i see them in person, but it does appear they will be back after a world record, or a national record of thirtysomething days. " we will make up for lost time. it has not been a pretty spectacle, but i'm glad it's over. tavis: from your point of view,

the walkout was about what? or you had what to say about it in indiana? >> he would have to ask our democratic colleagues what it was about because the story changed several times. initially, it was said to be about a private sector right to work bill, which had been offered in the house. but when that was taken off the table, they stayed over in the hot tub in illinois on different grounds for the last several weeks. i have tried not to say too much about it. i am not sure anything i would say would have affected their decision making. it has not been a proud moment for our state. again, i am just glad it's over and glad that there is still time to pick up the pieces and do some important work for our economy, for our kids, and for future. tavis: you defended governor walker over in wisconsin, who has been of against the same thing you have been up against, that is to say, with democratic

legislators feeling compelled to step away from these debates that they thought were unfair. you defended governor walker and i went back and did a little bit of reading about your own past, which i feet -- i know fairly well being a hoosier. one could argue that you started this six years ago when you killed a collective bargaining in indiana. >> i would not call it a mess. we had 160 pages of state work rules that used to handcuff citizen government. and we have transformed state government in a variety of ways since then, and i can prove because we measure everything that citizens are receiving more prompt and more accurate service today. we could not have done it under the old system where you could not move a xerox machine from one end of the room to the other without a consultation. yes, i believe scott walker is trying to do what he said he

would do and we want our elected officials to keep their commitments. secondly, in our experience is not just about saving taxpayer money, although we did by the hundreds of millions, but it is also about serving the public better. tavis: how much of an issue you think these issues are going to be in 2012? it seems to be the issue now is about the rights of workers in this country. governments are going to be front and center in this race, whether you run or not. what do you make of this on the national level? >> i do not think there will be that much debate on the private sector side. i do not think there needs to be one. collective bargaining is an important right. of course, of collective bargaining has been dwindling down to 6% or 7% of the workforce, but they have the right to be there. even the strongest proponents of collective bargaining for the private sector, people like franklin delano and roosevelt,

never thought there was a place in government where no one is playing with his own money. the representative on the government side is playing with the taxpayers' money. i think that is a legitimate issue. who works for whom here? is the government there to serve the public? tavis: if the debate is about the rights of workers, we could have a whole conversation tonight about government in this country. however government being oftentimes the worst discriminator, the worst offender. let's not talk about civil rights or slavery or woman suffrage -- i mean, i could do this all night, giving examples where government has been the discriminator in chief. why not access to collective bargaining? just because they work for government? >> there was a time when in the old days of of patronage and so forth when government workers were put upon and vulnerable, but that is a long time ago.

now in 41 states out of 50, they are better paid than the taxpayers to support them. in the federal government they are almost twice as well paid. this does not even count the benefits and the almost complete job security they have. it is a very legitimate question at a time when government does not have enough money to do the things that it is committed to do, whether we ought not restore some balance to this process. i think is a legitimate debate and one that is overdue. tavis: your having a good run, obviously, as governor of indiana. how badly do you feel, if at all, for the current budget director? you have been the budget director for the united states president. it is a job, i assume, that you would not want at all right now. >> it is a great job, and yet i do feel the spirit of fraternity with whoever is there, whether i agree or disagree with the policies of that person's president. it is a job where you have to say no to a lot of people, or

should. it is not always a job where you enjoy a lot of thanks for the efforts put in. but it has never been more important than it is right now. our nation has built up debts through over promises and the prospect of even greater debts that really do threaten the livelihood of every american, and most particularly, those were looking for a first leg let -- let up on the ladder of life. we have got to welcome everybody out there in both parties. we have a lot riding, all of us, on a big change in national policy. tavis: we have been trying to talk about domestic policy and i will get one more question about that before you go. even the president tonight has spoken about libya. your thoughts about what we are doing there or should be doing or should not be doing? >> indiana does not have a foreign policy.

i, for one, have always believed that partisanship stops at the water's edge. i am not going to second-guess any decision that the president and administration has made. i am glad he is talking to the country tonight. many people have said that the administration needs to explain itself. what are we doing there? what are -- what is the extent of our commitment? who are the folks that we are trying to help? what is the end objective? i'm glad that the speech is coming and i also agree with those who say that there should get -- that there should have been more discussed with congress. they need to involve congress before they put young americans in harm's way. tavis: you are brilliant and sometimes unpredictable, so i knew that you were going to answer the question exactly as you did, that indiana does not have a foreign policy. i want to close by asking if mitch daniels runs for president, he is going to have

to have a foreign policy. what about all the talk about your running in 2012? >>, obviously, your the brilliant one since you know the answers before i give them. tavis: [laughter] >> and i told you would be the fifth or sixth to know if i made that decision. i have not made the decision to do it or not to do it. i am really absorbed and as of tonight, much more so now. we have the legislature back. we are trying to do some important things here. we are trying to reward our best teachers, improve teacher quality in our state, turn around our worst schools, the great charter schools and give parents more options. i will be fully absorbed in that until the job is done. if the other question you ask is still of interest to folks, we will address it. >> let -- tavis: let me ask you what your process is going to be for making a decision about

whether or not you are going to run. >> i would just say that there are two main elements. one is, i have been watching to see whether people in one party or the other would step up to the life-threatening, i should say republic threatening, problems that we discussed a moment ago. there a danger to our economy and the american dream if we do not shape up -- they are a danger to our economy and the american dream if we do not shape up. and secondly, it is not just one person involved. there are five women in my family and what they think has an awful lot to say about what i'd do in life. tavis: i will stop pressing for now. for now is the operative phrase. >> that is fair enough and we will talk about it again, i'd bet. tavis: i appreciate it. gov. daniels, good to have you want. up next, after an environmental advocate, ted danson. stay with us.

tavis: please welcome ted danson back to this program, the emmy- winning actor and longtime political advocate for the environment with a new text about what happens to the world's oceans. the book is called "oceana." it is always an honor to have you on this said. >> thank you very much. tavis: you doing all right? >> i am. tavis: you have done so much good work over the years, etc. there is a local station that plays becker reruns' at every day. i have gotten hooked all over again. >> that is always a double-edged compliment. it does grow on you. you get people in airports, you know, the people who work late and come home and catch it at night. they have grown to appreciate it

more and more. tavis: when you look back at your work, whether it is becher or it is cheers, those two series specifically, how do you view in hindsight the work that you have already done on a comedic side? >> as sam malone said, i am the luckiest son of a [bleep] in the world. now i am playing this slightly senile, depraved manner on hbo in the "board to death." -- bored to death. i seem to be around great riding. tavis: how important is that and where is that too have been in the business as long as you have been and to be had these stages of your own personal about and aging process, which you are all going through -- which we are

all gone through, and you find the right roles? >> i do not know if it is rare or less or whatever, but i have been lucky. -- rehr or blessed or whatever, but i have been lucky. i am 63 and i'm around kids. i am acting with jason schwartz men and kazakh galifianakis -- lezak galifianakis, who are my kids aged. they're sweet and a want to include me. but when the hell that i have to be included? i used to be the clude. tavis: you are already included in and now you are being the clude. >> at this stage, you want to be relevant still. i have a character who desperately wants to be relevant, hanging around young people, smoking dope, and do not leave me out. whatever you are doing i want to do, too. it resonates with me.

tavis: this book, first, it is a beautiful book. i am a design and layout person. that is to say nothing about the empowerment that is in here. let me start by asking how this became your cause because there are so many personalities, so many celebrities in this town who at certain points in their careers attached their name and their work and their value that this sum -- to something that is necessary. how did this become ted danson? >> in a lot of ways -- you know, cheers with paying me a lot of money and i felt guilty and responsible. i was walking along the beach with my kids in santa monica and they were like eight and four and they wanted to know what the assignment, you know, water polluted, no swimming. how could something that big and beautiful be polluted? i had no idea. i also ran into a man who was

driving 60 oil wells brought along will rogers state beach. all of these things came together aita fdot -- and really come out andnaivete we decided to create this campaign. it merged into oceana, which is the world's largest single issue marine conservation group. that is where i am now. i'm on the board of directors. that is really what inspired me to write this. i have learned a lot as a layman, as an actor hanging around these amazing scientists and lawyers and policy people. i wanted to share what i have learned because it feels like we are at 18. with the oceans. -- at a tipping point with the oceans. tavis: you have learned a lot, but have you seen a lot of change with this issue? >> shourd, but what we are

dealing with is so vast and global that it does need to be energized and kicked into high gear. basically, what is going on is that we are overfishing. that is the biggest danger. there are a lot of things that are going on with the oceans that are threatening. the biggest danger is that we are overfishing. we really could over -- out fish are oceans in the next 40, 50, 60 years. one of the great scientist that is in this book, dr. daniel polley, a friend of mine, he discovered in 2002 that in 1988 for the first time ever, fish catch around a world was going down. every year, for the first time in history we catch fewer and fewer fish with more and more sophisticated boat's going out to try to find them. nine out of 10 of the fish that were around when i was growing up, the swordfish, tuna off, marlin, and sharp, 90% of them are gone.

we are fishing out the top of the food chain. it is pretty crucial because about 200 million people depend upon fish and fishing for their livelihood and about 1 billion people, mostly in poor countries, depend on fish for their prejean. this is a big problem. the good news is that is fixable. tavis: i ask how that is this- fixable because we live in a country, certainly an environment, where obesity is certainly an issue. and when you talk about losing weight, fish is one of those foods that is relatively healthy for you as opposed to other things. i am trying to juxtapose fishing out the oceans and things that you want to eat more of. i am trying to make sense out of all this. >> it is not just that we are taking too many out. it is how we are doing it. we are wiping out some of their nurseries, because some of the

fishing techniques are just huge. some of these boats are like a football field. they have these huge nets that 50 years ago you would have to live when it came to coral reefs or rocks or notes and crannies. now they are so sophisticated, so heavy, the equipment and the boats are so powerful that they can just drive right over the coral reefs. they turn them into a gravel pit. there are some amazing photos. the focus -- the trouble is, those are the nursery's. that is where the little fish hide and get bigger and then begin a for us to eat. if you wipe out the nursery's, you have an impact on the oceans. stop doing that and you allow fish to rebound, because they will. for example, in the no. 7 and during world war ii people were afraid to fish because of the u- boat's. the stock of fish just went through the roof. here is an example.

there are about two and half times the amount of boats out in the water that can sustainably fish. the reason why that can exist is that it is so heavily over subsidized. it is about and $80 billion per year fish industry worldwide. $20 billion to $25 billion of that is subsidized. this country is pretty good, but the rest of the world over subsidizes the fleet to go out and do the wrong thing. if you cut those subsidies, they would not have the fuel or the what ever to go out and in the wrong places to the wrong thing. for the first time ever, the world trade organization has this language indeed doha round where they will try to reduce fishing trade agreements. that would be huge. farmed fish, we thought that would be the solution. farm salmon, in most places, especially in chile, which is

where we get most of it in our country, you have to grind up the three to 4 pounds of wild fish to feed the salmon to make 1 pound. that kind of ratio is crazy. in your wedding of the fish for the local people. you know, and -- you are wiping out the fish for the local people. not a smart thing to do. stay away from farmed salmon. tavis: at the top of the conversation you said you have been a political activist for a long time. of course, we all know your relationship with the clintons. assess for me how things are on these issues. >> pretty good. pretty good. if you read the book, you will see that we have to turn things around in a huge way. new problems are global. the good news is that it is possible to do that. he scared me, to be honest.

i am a huge fan. i campaigned for him. but he scared me when he opened up offshore oil drilling off the coast of the atlantic and lifted the moratorium. he put it back in place. that is a good thing for the oceans. he signed a bill to stop shark's fin -- shark thing in this country. if we kill about 70 billion sharks' per year for their fynn so we can sell them to china for shark fin soup. this book, i hope, encourages all of us to do the right thing. pommells -- tavis: let me in this conversation where it really began. this is the first time seeing you face to face since the bp spill. now that we are on the other side of that -- i think we are on the other side of that. of course, the implications are

long term. the beginning of your book, you begin talking about it and how we can keep it happening again. >> to keep it from happening again, from my point of view, do not open the coast to offshore drilling at all. clearly, they are not going to shut down the wells in the gulf, but do not more offshore oil drilling. i think we dodged a bullet, basically. there were models. it did happen in april and on the day that it happen, if you look at years past, that specific day the currency did this and swept up florida and along the coast of the atlantic, or it slammed into the marshes of texas and louisiana. it did all of these bad things in previous models. this particular year, the currents created an eddie that kept the oil in one place and allowed it to evacuate. the damage was not as bad as

people thought. we do not know what is happening to the nursery's, the larva that was exposed to the oil. i have heard stories in this last month of baby dolphins washing of dead, 10 times the amount as normal. we do not know. may i add one thing? tavis: certainly. >> because we are talking fast and talking about some scary stuff. what makes me happy about the way this turf -- this book turned out is that at the end of every chapter -- because it is important for us to know what is going on -- is also what you can do to make it better. the biggest thing i would like to end with is, go to the ocean. have a fish dinner. remember how much you love the ocean. because if you do not start from a place of joy and excitement, it is too overwhelming. do this work, with all -- but with a light heart. tavis: he is a fine thespian, of

course we all know that, but also a committed advocate. in his new book, "oceana: our oceans and we can do to save them." he is a good friend. thank you for being here. until next time, keep the faith. ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: join me next time for a conversation with controversy o education reformer michelle rhee. that is next time. we will see you then. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports

tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. >> nationwide is on your side pbs station from viewers like -- and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- --www.ncicap.org--

bringing things in-- in a pram. can you tell me a little about what you've got here? this is my father's collection. he was the therapist for the australian cricket team for many many years. and he was in the beginning of world series cricket. - oh really? - so he realized there would be - some valuable things to hand down to his grandchildren... - right. ...and great-grandchildren, et cetera, et cetera. - would you mind if i have a quick rummage around? - no, i'd love you to. everything's signed. right. okay. - ah, this looks like world series cricket. - definitely. there's three teams. this is the australian team. - okay, open it up. - and in here is the west indies...

- right. - ...and possibly the international or english team. that is the english team. i notice a few that i recognize here. there is graham dilley; bob taylor who was the wicket keeper. this is a nice piece. the signatures are in fairly nice condition. at auction that would probably fetch in the region of $200-$400. - wow. - so you're looking at around £100 to 200. wow, okay. now... okay, now this... this is something rather special. can you tell me anything about this cap? - it was ian chappell's. - man: right. possibly my dad fixed something for him. - mmm. - and he went on to do quite well in a game somewhere, because my dad's 90 with alzheimer's and he doesn't remember. right. this-- this is a very significant piece of sporting memorabilia. it's actually initialed here, you can see it's initialed "i.c."-- ian chappell.

- ian chappell was the captain of australia-- - he would have been. yes, he was unbeaten. he never lost a series as captain. he played in over 70 tests. and the baggy green is considered really to be the most collectible type of cricket memorabilia. and cricket is really the most collectible australian sport. uh, this-- this is fantastic. if it were to appear at auction in australia, this would conservatively make - between $6,000 and $8,000... - ( gasps ) my goodness! ...which translates in english pounds to around £2,500 to 4,500. - ( laughing ) - so it's quite-- - quite a find. - wow.