tavis: good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. tonight a conversation with a true legend over the civil rights era, diane nash. she was on the student nonviolent coordinating committee better known as sncc. she takes part in a documentary about the freedom riders. it airs next month on pbs. a conversation with diane nash coming up right now. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley.

with every question and every answer. nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: an honor to welcome diane nash to this program. in the early 1960's she became a key figure in the civil rights movement as a student at fisk university. she led an toast desegregate bus

stations in the south. this marks the 50th anniversary over the freedom riders. this month on pbs you can catch "freedom riders." here now a scene from "freedom riders." >> my phone in the hotel room rings and it is the attorney general and he opens the conversation, who the hell is diane nash. call her and let her know what the waiting for the freedom riders so i called her. i said i understand that there are more freedom riders coming down from nashville. you must stop them if you can. her response was they are not going to turn back. they are on their way to birmingham and they will be there shortly. tavis: so as that moment in history, who was -- who the heck was diane nash?

[laughter] >> well, i was a student at fisk university in nashville, tennessee. and i had gotten extremely upset and outraged and angry really because nashville was segregated and there were signs and it was very dehumanizing. so i became involved in the sit-in movement and in 1961, the freedom rides had begun. we in nashville, in the nashville movement absolutely shared the objectives that the -- racial equality had in doing that project and we had said that we will stand by in case they need help. and so when the riders were viciously attacked in birmingham

nashville ,e understood that the ride must not stop right then, because if it had, the message would have been sent that you could stop a non-violent project by inflicting massive violence. if that message had been sent, we would not have been able to have a movement about voting rights or anything else without getting a lot of people killed. so it was critical that it continued right then. tavis: i'm glad i have you the full show. there is so much to talk about tonight. you mentioned that the freedom rides started in 1961. let me come back because i want to make a point that you'll appreciate. the march on washington happened in 1963. >> yes. tavis: we have talked about it so many times in 1963 because patriarchy, not a single woman

could get up and speak at the march in washington. in 1963. dorothy hite was there but couldn't speak. malalia jackson could sing but she doesn't speak. no woman speaking at the movement at the march in washington in 1963. back up. you were a 21-22-year-old student? >> 22. tavis: at fisk but you happen to be a woman. where does the courage and the conviction and the commitment and the character come from for a woman in this movement to be as bold and outfront as you were at such a young age? >> well, the many, many, many women participated in the movement. it was just that the civil rights movement came before the women's movement and so just about everybody's consciousness was very low when it came to gender. actually in the nashville -- the

local movement to desegregate lunch counters in nashville, i was the third chairperson. the first two were men and they held office, i guess each one held office for maybe 10 days or two weeks and they missed meetings and they missed demonstrations and when they came back to a meeting, we said where were you and they said they were busy studying or something. [laughter] >> and we thanked them for their service. but said that we could not afford to have officers that were not forget because someone could get killed or injured and we replaced them. so i will not be modest at this point. when i was elected, we had worked together for a few weeks and i think my colleagues thought i was efficient. tavis: when you say elected, was that your choice or was it by

chance? we go back to dr. king. he didn't choose to be the leader of the movement. he was thrust into that. were you thrust into this or did you choose it? >> thrust. i tried repeatedly to decline when i was nominated. i was afraid. in fact, the night i was elected, even past my attempts to avoid it, i remember coming back into my room in the dormitory. my roommate wasn't in and the room was dark and i really didn't have the strength to walk across the room to my side of the room, so i remember leaning against the wall and thinking what have i gotten into? we're coming up against southern white men who were in their 50's and 40's and who were businessmen and government officials and who were we? a bunch of students, 18, 19,

early 20's. i remember not being able to imagine what things would be like in two months or three months. tavis: let's go back to chicago and then come back to nashville. you were born in chicago. if i'm to believe what i read and you tell me whether or not what i read is correct, you were born to a middle class family that wasn't the most radical and yet you end up being one of the leaders of this movement. take me back to chicago and tell me about the family that you were raised in. i'm trying to make the connection, the juxtaposition how you got into the movement. >> well, i spiled when you say -- because we really -- smiled when you say, because we were really not political in terms of civil rights at all. i remember when i got in the sit-ins.

my grandmother wrote me a letter and said diane, you have goten in with the wrong bunch. she didn't know i was the chairman. [laughter] they were very conscious of you know, citizenship and politics in terms of being americans but not in terms of civil rights. when i got to nashville, my sense of dignity was attacked. i came from a very loving, caring family. when i complide with segregation and used the back door or something, i felt like i was agreeing. that somehow i was not good enough to use the front door and the facilities that the public used. i think at that time, blacks as a whole had really had it with segregation. it was demeaning. if you went downtown in nashville during the lunch hour,

blacks were sitting along the curb or in a lonely alley eating lunch that they had either brought from home or purchased at a restaurant on a take-out basis. you could buy it to go but couldn't sit there and eat it. i just found segregation insulting and demean demeaning. tavis: when you saw what happened to that first group, you saw the photos a moment ago of their bus being bombed, firebombed, as it were. you were with the second group. you feel the movement has got to move forward because you don't want these cowards to win. tell me about the fear, the trepidation that you must have felt seeing clearly what had happened to the first group. >> well, anyone with average intelligence would understand that if you took up the freedom

ride after what had happened to the first group, chances of getting seriously injured or killed were great. we were about to get on the bus and one of the students in nashville said someone ought to stay out. for a number of reasons. so that what we were doing would be accurately interpreted to the press in order to keep the freedom ride going and recruit more people in order to relate to the federal government and to relate the several communities by then who had become involved. and they electeded me to do that, to be coordinator. in that capacity as coordinator, several of the students gave me sealed envelopes that were -- that i was to mail in the event of their death. so people understood precisely what they were getting into. but they were willing to make

that sacrifice. in order to -- for the collective good. tavis: what was the import and the impact of white students joining these freedom rides. not just african-americans. >> well, after the riders were jailed in jackson, we put out a call across the country. for people to come and join the freedom ride. again, we still felt it was important to keep it going. and people of all races came. and so i think it was -- i think it was important. tavis: what was -- when you -- no students in your group

boarded those buses, the second wave. what was the goal? was the goal to -- i don't want to put words in your mouth. >> to desegregate bus travel. tavis: there was nothing short of that? that's what i was really trying to get at. if that hadn't happened -- >> if that hasn't happened, we would still be working on it. we were determined. that's one of the ten ents violent direct action. you don't stop. you keep on until you have prevailed. you don't start unless you know what you're doing just and correct. tavis: how do you make a decision to move this cause in front of your -- the cause of your education at that moment?

>> the movement needed someone to work full time. and i remember i had found my volkswagen when i -- vocation. i had planned to be a high school teacher. i could hardly sit through one more class and you have to be a -- a whole dignified, self-respecting person in order to be an english teacher or whatever kind of job your education would prepare you for. and i just knew that segregation was wrong. and i knew that i should not be going along with it.

i have managed over the -- i've always had a good relationship with myself. tavis: that's important. >> it is. it really is. part of that is making decisions that would cause me to respect the person i see in the mirror. tavis: do your parents, your grandmother who had written that letter, did they come over time to respect the choice tcha diane had made for her own life? >> i spent a lot of time writing letters to them explaining what i was doing. i don't think my grandmother would ever be convinced, but my family was convinced that i was convinced and actually they came around. my mother ended up going to fundraisers in chicago that were raising money to send to

students in the south. and actually over years, she went to an elevated train and bus station one day at 6:00 a.m. to hand out leaflets protesting the war. tavis: so she was encouraged and empowered by her own daughter. tavis: yes. tavis: that is powerful. we talked about chicago a few times already. had you experienced any kind of racism in chicago that would have prepared you for what you were about to encounter at fisk in the south in tennessee or was it a night and day experience for you that you were not really prepared for? >> you know, i had experienced some racism in chicago but i hadn't quite known what to do with it. i didn't quite understand. when i was in elementary school, three of the nuns -- i went to a

catholic school. had said this. they were sisters to have blessed sacrament. that was a teaching order and they only worked with negros and indians. i remember the nuns saying you know we must love god because we work with the least of god's children, negros and indians. i remembered that. i didn't fully understand it at the time. tavis: i don't know if there is anything here but since you raised it, i want to ask because i'm curious. you grew up in a catholic family as you mentioned in chicago. >> well, they were not really catholic. we lived across the street from the catholic school and the catholic school did not allow any fighting and we lived across the alley from a public school. and there were fights everyday.

and so that's how i got -- and once i got to the catholic school then i became catholic. tavis: you didn't grow up catholic but you became catholic when you went to this school? >> a very devout catholic. >> tavis: my question still works. what i really wanted to ask was -- and this is not -- when we tend to think to have movement and king and we tend to think of blacknologist the south in baptist churches, we don't tend to think of catholics in the movement. you know where i'm going with this. was that ever an issue for you? how was that for a catholic girl in the movement when all of these black baptists, etc.? >> i fit in. there were a lot of, you know, songs that i didn't know and some of the culture was different for me.

and they used to tease me. tavis: sure. >> they would say things like the reverend likes to tease me and said yeah, diane would get excited about the sermon and she would shout too but she would say hail mary's. so they had a lot of jokes. [laughter] tavis: it occurred to me checking out this freedom ride, it is a wonderful piece, american express had done a great job. >> yes, that is a wonderful film. tavis: you're pleased with it? >> more than pleased with it and it is accurate, which is something that can't be said for many of the pieces that have been written about the movement. this one is really good. tavis: have to be accurate around here. >> well, you did it. tavis: when i got the chance to

watch this, i was struck by the fact. it is in your face. you all were young, young kids, basically. who didn't wait on elected officials. you were not waiting on the body politic. you were not waiting on the government or on washington. you took matters into your own hands. i'm saying this not to cast dispersion on this generation today but so many of them got excited about the candidacy of barack obama from your hometown of chicago. putting your hopes and aspirations on an individual rather than government. taking control of your future that way. >> that is a really important point. put your hopes and dreams on an individual that is you. because who'll look out for your interests more than you will? voting is important.

but voting is not enough. that 10 minutes that you send in the voting booth every two years does not fulfill the requirement for being a responsible citizen. tavis: mm-hmm. >> i personally wish that american citizens would stop depending on elected official to do the things that need to be done in this country. can you imagine how long it would have taken if we had waited for elected officials to desegregate public accommodations or to desegregate interstate bus travel? it still may not have happened. and i think that's true today. back then we didn't know -- i didn't know.

but now it is hard to argue with success. remarkable changes. i think people would do well to study how to have a nonviolent movement and to take the future of this country into their own hands and use direct action to make changes. tavis: i've got less than a minute to go. thanks for coming. a beautiful segue. i was wondering whether or not you think direct action would work. it worked then but there is no way in a world of hamas and al qaeda and bin laden, nonviolent direct action would not work today. you have heard before i assume? >> i have heard it before. i think gandhi, his i vention of

a way to declare warfare and make social change without killing and maiming human beings is one of the most important inventions of the 20th century. i think that many of the tactics that we use now cause more trouble and more enemies and more violence, violence begets violence. if you bomb somebody and kill their relatives and their friends, you have made an enemy and i think that -- and you haven't solved any problems. i really wish governments would look at this as a viable alternative to the killing and maiming that they do. tavis: maybe those in government will check this out next week when this wonderful piece premieres. it is called "freedom riders." it is a powerful piece. diane nash is featured in it. it is an honor to have you on this program.

as empty as its might seem, i can't think of anything more to say. thank you. >> thank you, tavis. >> i don't mean for the conversation either. the conversation was nice. honored to have you here. that's our show for tonight. until next time, keep the faith. >> the people that took us on these buses that went to jail in jackson, they were never the same. we had moments there to learn. to teach each other. the way of nonviolence. the way of peace. the freedom ride created an unbelievable, yes, we will make it. yes, we will survive. now, but nothing, was going to stop this movement.

dionne warwick and her new c.d. "only trust your heart." that's next time. see you then. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and removing obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you.

thank you. >> be more. pbs. >> be more. pbs. >> be more. pbs.