tavis: good evening from los angeles. as the showdown looms, there was hope that a group of six senators might be able to form a compromise in debt reduction. of a deal.talk with us is one of the men who helped form the group of six, senator warner. also, so creators royce eand ray romano are here. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading.

>> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference, you help us all live better. >> nationwide supports tavis smiley. nationwide is proud to join in working to improve financial literacy and working to remove obstacles to economic empowerment. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions from your pbs station -- to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- tavis: mark warner is serving his first term in the u.s. senate from virginia. he is a key member of the senate budget committee, who helped organize the bipartisan group known as the gang of six.

it is always good to have you back on this program. >> thanks for having us back on. tavis: is it five or six? >> we have one republican who was going to take a break, but we have congressman who wrote a letter and said, hang in there. we have got to have some bipartisan solution, so we are still at it. tavis: what is the mission? what is the strategy? how did you farmout -- how to the five or six of you get the others to see it away you see it, to find some common ground? what is the strategy? >> you hit the nail on the heads. we have seen the republicans come up with mr. ryan's budget. we disproportionately made cuts out of medicare. it showed us how hard it is to take care of this problem.

if you completely keep military spending off the table -- we saw the president come up with a proposal but also did not get a lot of attraction, so we have been saying, we have got this crisis triggered it is like we are about to drive over a cliff -- we have got this crisis. it is like we are about to drive over a cliff. every day $4 billion is added to our debt, that we will have to pay off. we used to say we will pass it to our kids. we are going to get stuck with it as well. some of the entitlement programs, we have got to reform them. now we have to say to our republican colleagues, spending may be at an all-time high, but revenues are at the 60-year low. we have got to raise revenues as well and start with something bipartisan, and a lot of people are probably saying hang in there, but we have to go against the orthodoxies of both new

parties and put the country first. i hope we can build on this, get a plan out there, let the arrows fly, but hopefully find a path to get us out of this financial crisis. tavis: i asked about the mission and strategy. going forward, what is the strategy for your group? how do you get others to sign up with what you come up with? >> we have gotten most of the way there. we met for for five months with no details coming out, and we now felt it was time to share some of these ideas with other members who have been privately saying hang in there. we have not finished everything. there are a few issues left to be resolved. i think they are resolvable, but we have got to share some of these ideas and say to folks, if we come out with something or if we move forward, you may not like every part of it, but is the sum of the parts good enough for you to kind of say, an

imperfect product will move forward? if we do not make everybody a little bit mad with this plan, chances are we will not have done our job. tavis: how does congress do deficit reduction and raising the debt ceiling at the same time? the speaker of the house has the knowledge of the debt ceiling has to be raised, but members -- has acknowledged now the debt ceiling has to be raid, but members of his party have said they want this raising of the debt ceiling if it is going to be tied to deficit reduction. how did you do both simultaneously? can you do both at the same time? >> i think what mr. boehner has done is say, we are going to have to cut back on government spending. i have said, it is not just a small piece of the pie. everyone of our cuts so far, whether they have come from hell

grants, education, transportation, energy, -- whether they have come from pell grants, education, transportation, energy -- let's look at all of them. we have to make medicare sustainable for the next 30 or 40 years, not just the next eight or 10 years. we have got to make social security sustainable for 75 years and not have it go into the kind of deep deficit where we would have to steve benefit cuts in 2037, and i have also -- going to have to see benefit cuts in 2037, and i have also said to look at the revenue side. we have to bring up the revenues, and bring down the spending, and we have to get our republican colleagues to say they will put everything on the table as well. it is going to be hard, but i believe it is so important, because one reason we are doing this is not just to get through the deficit. the problem if you do not deal

with the debt ceiling is you could have a dramatic spike in interest rates. if you suddenly had a dramatic interest rates, that would more than cut back on job creation. we have got to not play chicken with each other about this debt. at the same time, if we put a plan in place, it will take a decade plus to get us out of this whole, but if we put a plan in place, i believe it will start to tell american businesses we are sitting with a lot of the deficit, that will give them the confidence that we will get this fixed, and i believe they will start spending money and creating jobs. >> standard and poor's does not have so much confidence in the economy and now, so they have lowered their credit rating. we are hearing that moody's may do the same thing if something does not give in congress and the next few weeks. house geared should we be about moody's threatening to lower our

-- how scared should we be about moody's threatening to lower our debt rating? >> the effect this will have on american families is if interest rates were to suddenly go up to eight or 10%, if you are trying to buy a car or a house, if you work for a business and needs to buy money to expand, all of that will cost money. right now for every dollar we spend, we are borrowing 40 cents, so we have to go into the marketplace and issue treasury notes, and if interest rate goes up, the cost of borrowing goes up, so this is much more than a political battle, and what i am worried about this american people have started to lose their faith that we in congress to put the country first, and i am a proud democrat, but we have to put the country first and come up with a plan where both sides to give a little bit, and i am hoping that some other

senators might be a path out of this, because we have seen if it is just the republican plan is not going to go through. if the president comes out with anything, no matter how good, they are going to be against it, so if we start bipartisan, i think that might help. tavis:, to more difficult is the journey you are trying to navigate -- how much more difficult is the journey you are trying to navigate, given that we are entering an election season? this is politics? >> i think a growing amount. what we have been trying to do is not just get a plan that would get us through the debt ceiling vote but would actually put a plan that would reform the tax cut and would say, we can lower tax rates if it the same time we lower tax expenditures. we collect one trillion dollars in income tax this year. we actually spend 1.1 trillion

dollars on things like charitable deductions, other tax breaks, some of the very popular like interest deductions, but we can actually lower revenue if we cut back on tax expenditures. that is going to take some time, and if we do not get started, all of these things will be planted until after the next presidential race, and -- will be punted until after the next presidential race. the sooner we can get a plan out there, the sooner we can actually do with people hired us to do, which is to put a longer term plan in place rather than just dealing with an the debt ceiling -- i think the better the country will be. tavis: use the phrase playing chicken with each other. you were talking about democrats and republicans, but tell me why i should not believe that a person who is ultimately going to blink is president obama.

he has done it before on issues that matter to us who happen to be progressive. tell me why the president is not going to give in to your good -- give in. >> i believe this president has done a very good job with a set of cards he has been dealt with, but it is challenging as we saw with some folks who were willing to basically shut down the government over not much of a major issue, and i get afraid with some of these newer members who say they do not think there is any downside to the government defaulting on its debt. that shows a remarkable lack of basic econ 101. i think we need to support the president. i think the best ways to come up with a bipartisan plan and take some arrows from both sides, but that would help the ability to go forward. >> always delighted to have you

on. thank you for sharing your insights. >> thank you for having me. tavis: up next, ray romano and his co creator of "men of a certain age,"mike royce. they also collaborate on a popular television comedy, "everyone loves and raymond." >> what did you mean? >> does she play? >> no. >> automatically she likes softball? >> maybe. >> you realize that is like saying you are good at sports

because you are black. >> i guess i just assumed. probably because of those movies. -- goes baseball movies. one with all the women. >> "league of their own"? they were not lesbians. tavis: let me start by saying thank you. i believe this may be the first term there was a tv show giving an honest portrayal, not making fun of, a show but not really shows what it is like to be -- that really shows what it does like to be a man of a certain age. i am your core audience, but thank you for making the show. i appreciate it. >> it is only on us because we were writing what we know, and we were -- only honest because

we were writing what we know, and we decided to just write what we know, and we do not try to fancy it up or anything. we try to keep it as real as weekend. -- as we can. tavis: what is the challenge of trying to roll out a show of midlife crisis for men verses midlife crisis for women? i have seen a bunch of those movies. >> first, it would not exist without him. you like him, and when we were talking about it, we felt -- first, we were just talking, and then we decided to start writing about it, and we realized it was weird there is nothing on about this because it is so relatable, and if you get to this age -- sometime in your 40's, 50's, it does not matter where you are in your life, how successful you

are or the opposite and -- you question. something in you start to see guest coming. for the first time, you are aware of it -- you start to see death coming. for the first time, you are aware of it. >> they call it dancing with mortality. we were talking before we came on the set the fact that this is not raymond's first show to be critically acclaimed by everybody and yet having challenges, trying to find a massive audience. you have had massive audiences before, so what is the eternity like, trying to understand what the story -- what has the journey been like, trying to understand what the story is? >> the first year with raymond, they were in trouble also, and

the critics kept it alive, because we could have been canceled after six weeks, and they are kind of doing it show. tnt has never had a show like this that is getting these critical reviews, so they are giving it some time, and i think it takes time. i think people are coming and seeing me and middle-aged men and they think it is going to be funny and we are going to be talking about groups and all that. they do not realize what -- talking about boobs and all that. they do not realize that audience has not found it yet. they are coming. tavis: our men ready for a show like this? are we capable of showing our a motion and how we relate to this by watching it -- our a motion and how we relate to this is by getting in touch regions -- our

emotion and how we relate to itch? >> the show is tough to describe. people have tried to describe it as "sex in the city" for men. >> there is no city. which one am i? >> not samantha. apparently i watched "sex in the city." i go back to "friday night lights." it also had struggles. it is a show about football, but it is not really about football. tavis: when you went in to pitch this, other than the fact that ray romano was with you, how did you sell this? >> we went to a bunch of other places, and we went to one

network said said -- they liked the script. they enjoyed the script because they thought it was well written and about something, but one person said it was not loud enough. >> what does that mean? >> not enough car chases and sex and whatever and trauma. >> people have tried this before, a show about men talking, and the trap you fall into is you write it from that perspective. here is how men are, as opposed to write it about these specific characters, so we tried not to fall into that trap of here is how men behavior. we are trying to stick to these three guys and how their lives unfold. >> tnt -- michael is a man of a certain age, and he fell in love with the script. for them, i have got to give them credit, the is there is nothing like it on another

network. -- because there is nothing like it on another network. there are a couple of networks that have shows that are tone- wise more the same way ours is, but at&t took risks putting it on, and they are in -- tnt towbin risks putting it on, and they are behind it. new -- tnt took risks putting it on, and they are behind it. tavis: how would you describe these three characters? it is about these characters. >> he is recently divorced, and he got throw pulled out from under him. it came as it -- gotkine the rug pulled out from under them -- got the rug pulled out from under him. he is in this new world which in

dating and his kids are grown up, and he has this dream of golfing. in many ways, he is a draft, but he has a lot of questioning going on. tavis: does the schumer fit into his character? >> the thing -- does the humor fit into this character? >> the thing is these characters may each other laugh. now people feel like they are watching their good friends and that they have fun together, and our goal is when it is dramatic, it hits you, but that the comedy is also funny. owen is married with three kids, a lot of financial pressure, and he works for his father at a car dealership which was never his dream. and there is a perpetual bachelor, also the perpetual

actor trying to make it. he is of great actor, but he never got over the hump, and now he is 50. tavis: just a few nights ago, at the white -- betty white was here. i told her, i totally love "golden girls." i really appreciate the right thing, even though i am not a core audience. i wanted to ask what the value is. why would women enjoy watching a show called "men of a certain age"? >> the woman audience is bigger than the male audience. they like to see what is going on for real. now they do not know we are not showing them everything. [laughter]

i think that is it. it is kind of a version of something -- these guys are really thinking about something. there is some truth. they are seeing a little bit inside what makes a guy tick, and it surprised me that when an -- there is a larger female audience. even "golden girls" -- hopefully, good writing and reality, people get connected to it. people get invested in it. tavis: for me at least, shows work because i think the right thing is smart, funny, witty. and how much of the success long term will have to do with the right thing? >> it certainly starts with that, and as a writer, thank you.

it is all about that, and they have been at tnt good enough that they never say it has to be this way or that way. they have opinions, but i think that network television you get over-noted. tnt is never saying, you have to get a big guest star. i think we have been allowed to let it grow in a natural way. >> when you try to ride for everyone, you end up writing for no one. tavis: you have reference it a few times in this conversation. how rare is it in his business to have a network to give you this kind of time to find your legs? the story is if you do not hit it in the first few weeks, you are out the door. >> raymond was saved by the critics. we were at 110th place.

we were just ahead of "moisha." tavis: is still kills -- it still kills. >> especially now when there is so much on and so little attention span -- when we won a peabody, so that helps. tavis: congratulations. >> it is rare to get a little leeway, but i think they believe in the show. >> we are doing ok. we just want more, and they want more. tavis: if you were not doing ok, you would not be here. we know you are doing ok. >> all the critics in the world to not play the -- do not pay the bills. there are great shows that got canceled. tavis: if anyone can make this

work long term, it would be ray romano. if the show continues to go, you will have to come back. good >> even if it does not go, we will come back, because we will have nowhere else to go. >> that is our show for tonight. we will see you next time. until then, good night. thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on the show a visit now have a smilep atbs. -- visit pbs.org. >> next is william h. macy. >> all i know is his name is james and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> to everyone making a difference, you help us all lives better. >> nationwide insurance helps

tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide is proud to work to remove obstacles to economic empowerment one obstacle at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station and buy viewers liked you. thank you. -- from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television]