tavis: good evening from los angeles. first up tonight, a conversation with george packer of "the new yorker," a look at what is being done to combat wrongdoing on wall street. pucker profiles a u.s. attorney who is trying to clean up wall street. also, actor jami gertz is here. she is behind the camera as a producer on a critically acclaimed new project, "a better life." the movie opens friday in new york and l.a. we are glad you joined us. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley.

with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. >> nationwide is on your side >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- books george packer's include "the assassin's gate." he is also a staff writer for "the new yorker." his article this week is called "a dirty business." he joins us from new york. always good to have you on this

program. >> it is good to be with you for the first time. tavis: there is someone who cares about washing -- wall street misdeeds and is doing something about it. tell me more. >> he was going in india. he went to harvard, columbia law school, did all the right things, and ended up as the u.s. attorney for manhattan, the southern district of new york. he inherited this case that had already been three years in the investigating when he arrived in office, which turned out to be the biggest case of insider trading in history. a couple of months after he came into office, he announced the arrest of raj rajaratham, who headed a big hedge fund called galleon, and a few of his associates in crime. the wire tops when did --

wiretaps ended up netting dozens of hedge fund people, lawyers, and corporate types across the top levels and middle levels of industry and finance. and it has become his signature case. the case was tried this past spring in manhattan. on may 11, reuter rodham -- rajaratham was convicted on all counts. insider-trading is hard to get because it goes on all the time and it is easy to elude detection. this lawyer has put his signature on fighting corruption on wall street. >> -- tavis: i am going to place cynic right now. insider-trading happens on wall street all the time. it is littered with white males.

what about this reality as a person of color -- the person who gets brought down is a person of color. he becomes the poster child. am i supposed to believe this is the only guy and worst guy, a person of color come up with all the guys on wall street? >> he is from samba -- from a tree -- and most of his associates are from asia. there is a trail that goes from company to company that ends up on the desk of the guy with brown skin, whether he is from india or was going in this country. i would say two things. there were a lot of white guys and girls that got caught in this. hong -- raj rajaratnam is the one who fought it all the way to

trial. he also made the most money and seemed to have his tentacles in the right places. all of the road seem to lead back to him. he was the master manipulator who had services across the country and across the world, but there were feeding back to him. there was another trial that happened last week in new york, in which a fellow by the name of gofer and his brother all got convicted. it may not be quite as much of a case of profiling as it seems from the outside, because it is actually a cross-section of multicultural america that has been caught in preet bharara's net. and preet bharara himself is a person of color. in a sense, the south asians have arrived. they are on both sides of this big case. they are the prosecutors and

investigators and are at the top of finance and industry getting caught. earlier generations of other minorities in america have been in this situation before. in an ironic way, it was a sign they had come to the center of american society. tavis: i am done playing thespian. >> there is one more thing we need to talk about as far as cynicism goes. why is it that hedge fund managers who are relatively small players, whatever the color of their skin, getting caught, and the big bankers are not going to jail? i do not know if you will ask about that, but that is the cynical question. tavis: i am glad you raised that. you are not a cynic. you are prophetic. that is where i wanted to go. race set aside, why are some guys being caught and others are not? you are making the distinction. and packet for us. >> insider-trading, while it is a crime and is insidious and

ubiquitous in certain financial circles, is not the thing that brought down the banks, and with it the american economy. with that, millions of people's jobs, houses, savings, retirement, and future. that was the financial crisis, and that was caused by reckless practices of executives at the top of the biggest banks and lenders and insurance companies in america. not a single one of them not only has gone to jail, but has even been prosecuted for what happened in 2008. tavis: why not? >> asked preet bharara. i went into this article thinking this was an outrage and a failure of political will, and possibly even a coziness between top officials and top bankers. i would say it is a failure of political will. i think washington has failed to make it a priority under the

bush administration and the obama administration. the higher priority was to stabilize the banks. that might have seemed like it would be undercut by prosecuting the bankers. the decision was made, or the trend of things went toward stabilizing rather than prosecuting. but i think at the level of preet bharara, a u.s. attorney, it is hard to make a case like that. it is hard to ask guys with limited resources, after the fact, what they call a dead body case, the crimes have already happened. the bankers are huge and insulated by lawyers and accountants. they have the best representation money can buy in america. they are hard targets to get. criminal law sets a hard standard, which is criminal intent beyond a reasonable doubt. in my article, a walk through ofet bharara's explanation

why it is a tough case to make. tavis: some would call me a cynic to ask this question. i think it is so much easier for laetitia and hector to be caught on the street corner. the bar seems to be so high. why is it that every day, people can go to jail, get thrown under the jail, but the bar is so high portaging white-collar criminals? >> i think it is because they are so insulated from the crimes. here is an analogy. it is a little bit street-level drug dealer and the international narcotics trafficker, who may be a guy in a suit, sitting behind a desk in a corporate office. they are so far above the level of where the crime can be more easily identified, which is, say, a fraudulent mortgage or a fraudulent financial report, or

an investment that was sold under spurious auspices. there are so many levels between them and the guys who are doing that, and they are so careful. they do not leave an e-mail trail. they know people will look into this. they have lawyers and accountants telling them it is ok and they can point to that if it comes to court. they are very well padded. in a sense, they have outsourced criminal activity to people at much lower levels. tavis: i wonder. over the years, of course, because of the nature of the position, there are always stories about the u.s. attorney covering manhattan, the nature of the job. you will get press because you are in new york city. tell me about the kind of profile of the kind of person that would want this job, that would be good at this job. it is a tough job and you do not make friends. you have to prosecute the elite.

>> that is true. you are right. the southern district of new york has a long history of trying big cases, swinging for the fences. giuliani was a prosecutor, the u.s. attorney for the southern district. he went after political corruption and the milken insider-trading case, which was big in the 1980's. it made his career as a politician. i do not know that preet bharara has political ambitions, although there are suggestions he does. i think what preet bharara brings to it is a toughness combined with real intelligence. he has gone after some big players not only on wall street, but politicians, terrorist cases. he went after gangs that were destroying life in a little town on the hudson river. he has gotten some very, very

big cases in his short two years in office. i think it is his toughness and thoughtfulness about society. he gave a series of speeches when he came into office about corruption in the white-collar world. he made that his focus. not the mob, which is more traditional for the u.s. attorney in new york. not drug-dealing. not immigration. white collar crime. that became his target. he did not make friends on wall street with that target. but i think he understood that we have a serious problem of erosion of trust in these financial institutions. and it took a prosecutor to put a little bit of fear into the heart of people, and to concentrate the mind of people on wall street. tavis: 20 seconds. i wonder whether, your article notwithstanding, the american people should believe or hope we will see more wall street prosecutions in the future.

>> i think it is less likely with every month. these are called cases. the evidence is drying up. the statute of limitations will expire in a couple of years. the opportunity was 2008 and 2009. it is less likely now. it is not impossible. he held out the suggestion there may be cases. but we missed chances and they will not come again. tavis: that is whack. good to have you on the program. >> good to be with you. tavis: up next, actress jami gertz. stay with us. jami gertz is an emmy nominated actress known for her role on seals like -- on series like ally mcbeal." she is a producer on a project called "a better life" that opens this week. here are some scenes. >> do you even have a license?

>> this is my only chance to make this grow. we can move out of here and get to a better school. >> i got a bounce. >> all right, louis. i want to talk about your future. >> my son is none of your business. >> good for us. >> what happened? >> i stole it. >> eject the truck? >> i have to find it. >> this is my problem. tavis: how do you make a movie about an issue as, -- as controversial as immigration? the movie is not about immigration, but above family. but how did you touch that issue of immigration these days in a movie that is entertaining, that does not proselytize? >> that is a lovely way of

putting it. first of all, it is time. it is important to tell the story. i think a lot of times the movie industry has become such that we are not telling our best stories. i grew up where you could see "flash dance" and then you would see "ordinary people," which was telling a story. when "a better life" came to the production company, it was a beautiful story. it does have an element about illegal immigration. what i did not love about chris white, our director, who directed "new moon" and "about a boy" -- he does not hit you over the head. it is part of life. there is between 12 million and 15 million undocumented workers in this country. tavis: tell me more about the story. >> it is a father-son tale.

what i was most interested in was the teenager-parent element of this, because there is a point in a kid's life where your peers are more important, and what they think is much more important to you, then what your parents think. for me, i love that these are two characters who are very far apart. you are a teenager. you care more what your friends think. your father speak spanish. his music is not your music. you were going here and want to be american. he is mowing lawns all day. there is embarrassment there. there is not a great deal of respect there. there is a lot of anger from the father and embarrassment from the sun. they have to go on a journey together to start getting back into each other's lives. for me, that is a universal theme, whether you are hispanic, black, white, rich, poor.

that is father-son, parent- child. that is an amazing story. tavis: by and large, we know you as an actress. you are getting into producing. how did that happen? >> when i thought about aging in the entertainment business and how to do it as gracefully as i could, i am also one of those people you go see the movie with and i will tell you why you were not satisfied. my husband and i have been married 22 years. he said to me, "put your money where your mouth is. go create art. you know scripts and what you are doing." i knew what i knew. i knew i did not know a lot. i needed a partner. i have a wonderful partner, stacey loveliner. she was a literary agent and started reading scripts. i have been reading scripts for 25 years and a lot are crappy. when this one came -- i was reading the script and it is so

rare that happens. a lot of times, i start movies and the script is not even finished. you do not know how it is going to end. how do you start any business without knowing and having the basics in line? that is what was there are ready with the script. with chris white directing it and meeting with chris and seeing what tlc he was bringing with it -- he was handling it with kid gloves. tavis: what makes a good script for you? >> telling a good story. you could tell a good story about superheros, but a lot of times -- i say this summer there are a lot of superheros. there are a lot of people in tights to have a super power and are going to save the world. i have the ending for you. we have the everyman's super hero who is wearing and work boots, blue jeans. every day, he is doing a

yeoman's job to put food on his table and make a life for himself and a better life for his family. i think that what makes a good script is that you are telling a great story that people should be interested in. if you tell it the right way and let them know it is out there, i believe they will come and enjoy it. tavis: you said something a moment ago that i think is important to go back and unpack. he said that if you tell a good story people should be interested. let us the s.e.c. that should be part. i hear the point you are making, and i agree that we reveled -- that we love to showcase the humanity of a character and we should all be able to get into that. yet you and your company have taken a risk, to some degree, in this project, because it features a largely hispanic cast. tell me why you believe america is ready to embrace that, when we see how hard we have had to

fight to get these kinds of projects made. it is a universal story, but you are rolling the dice. it is not a bunch of white folks. >> it is not. i think there are only two white people in the movie. 42% of our population now is hispanic. it is interesting. my oldest son goes to georgetown and we did a screening their. it is a very international school. there were kids there from ethiopia. there were kids there from egypt. there were kids there from spain, all over, who now live in america. there were like, "do not say it is a hispanic story. my mom slipped on the couch and gave me the bedroom. this is an immigrant story." this is not specifically a hispanic story. it happens to be we use a hispanic backdrop, but it is universal. i do not think it is a gamble to

tell a good story. i could be blowing smoke, but i believe if you tell a good story people will come see it, and these are good stories. the lead actor is so extraordinary. he underplays this and he has such humanity, and it comes through in every frame of that film. tavis: tell me more about the decision to go with actors who are not -- there are hispanic actors who are much better known, much bigger box office. but you went a different route. tell me why. >> so many people were clamoring for this script because it was well written. chris stuck to his guns. he wanted this actor. he had seen him in performance. he brought him into meet on "new moon" and to see if he could work with him. he stuck to his guns. it is hard to do in hollywood,

but chris white is that guy. he hung in there and was going to have this actor and shoot in l.a. most of these movies are like albuquerque for l.a. this is such a love letter for los angeles. you see it in such a different way. the thing about l.a. i am struck by -- i grew up in chicago. when you go downtown, you had to go through the bad areas, the tough neighborhoods. you had to get to the like. in l.a., these freeways you can bypass anywhere. you never have to get off on the area that maybe you do not want to look at. you never have to. this film forces you to take a look. it is a love letter to los angeles. it is shot so beautifully. for me, getting off that freeway and hanging out in south central -- it is what i loved about being on the set. there is beautiful life out there and wonderful people, and

we are not paying a enough attention. tavis: this may seem like a simple, silly question, but how important with a project where you are taking risks is it to have a director you are in love with, who you put all your trust in? >> i put my trust and my money in him. that is a big deal. it is an investment in his ability. i am so proud of what he has created. we are around the same age. i am not going to out myself on television. tavis: but you have a son at georgetown. >> i do. do the math. tavis: you have been married 24 years. >> i am proud of him like a mother of a child. he was in front of the calendar section yesterday and i literally said to him, "i hope you are sending copies to your mother and grandmother, because this is what makes parents excited." i have to mention him because he is my leader.

being an actor for so long, that is who i look to ansett. my director, as an actor, is the captain of the ship. i have been on ships were mike captain is if the or i think he should walk the plant -- where i thinkain is iffy or he should walk the plank. tavis: you are not giving up on acting with is producing role? >> never. i hope to produce for myself someday. but it is creating art for today in the medium i love, which is film, theater, and television, and helping artists create. it gets harder. development money has dried up. i come in and do my part to create great art. tavis: in this town, you mentioned two or three white people. i'm -- i remember you helping

when we were trying to convince p.b.s. to do this show many years ago. you came in to help. here you are. >> thank you. i have been on tavis. tavis: if jami is behind it, it is probably going to work. we have been on it for nine seasons. good to have you back on any time. that is our show tonight. thanks for tuning in. until next time, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org tavis: join me next time with the iranian-going journalist held captive in iraq. plus actress gabby sidibhe. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james.

>> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs. >> be more.

uh, sometimes, yes. okay. i'll tell you what we'll do. i'm not a gambler. i was once told to take a bet on the grand national, and i lost, and i thought, "well, this is ridiculous. - there goes £10. i'm not doing this again." - mm-hm. but, i will make an exception. this has just come out of my pocket-- what have we got here? 20, 40, 60, 80... there's about £100 there. i bet you £100 you haven't had these for very long. you would be correct. you owe me 100 quid. the best-- quickest 100 quid i've ever earned. now let me tell you. you've been going either round fairs

- or auctions? - yes. not recently. it was something i did about four to five years ago... - yeah, and you add to it... - ...when i got the interest, yeah. when i got the interest to have a look at them. and have you now stopped? - yes. yes. - because? i stopped because i enjoyed the pieces i bought to look at, and thought, "if i gain more pieces, i'm not gonna have time to concentrate looking at the ones i like." okay. what did you think you were buying? in some instances, probably very modern... netsukes. i think that there is possibly one there that is a bit old. - that one? - yeah. yeah. - it isn't. - no? - none of them are. - no? - the whole lot are brand new. - yeah.

i didn't think any of them were really old. there are millions of them about. i was at an antiques fair yesterday-- day before yesterday, and there was a stall there - which must have had a thousand of them on. - yeah. yeah. now, i don't mind that, because they were all wood. you can keep that one, you can keep that one, you can keep those, but you can't keep any of those. why? because they're all ivory. - yeah. - these are modern ivory. - mmm. - elephants are being killed for these... - that's it. yeah yeah. - ...and you mustn't buy them. - mm. - no problem with old ivory. - if you want to collect old netsuke... - that's it. ...i have no problem with that at all. and so, i'm delighted you've stopped.