tavis: good evening. as we prepare to celebrate the independence and freedoms that helped define america, is a sober reminder when men and women are wrongfully accused and often sentenced to die. the state of illinois is ground zero these days for numerous cases of false imprisonment. recently, i joined rev. jesse jackson in chicago for a two- part conversation with four men, black and white, who, combined, spend more than 50 years behind bars despite their innocence. we're glad that you have joined us. we're looking at the plight of the wrongfully accused in america coming up right now. >> all i know is that his name is james and he needs extra help

with his reading. >> i and james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference. >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. we're happy to join him in helping to improve literacy and empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and the contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: the human toll on those who have been wrongly accused and falsely imprisoned is staggering. as you will hear from the four

men from illinois that you are about meet. 85 people wrongfully convicted in illinois has spent a total of 556 years in prison. but that is only part of the story. consider what it means for all of us as taxpayers. in the same city, it was revealed that those wrongful 85 convictions cost taxpayers in illinois $214 million. that figure will likely grow to $300 million when all is said and then could 81 of the 85 cases were found with misconduct or error from state officials. in the meantime, the actual perpetrators continued to their crime sprees which included 14 murders and assaults. what can we do to about it? that is why we traveled to chicago for an in-depth look at one of america's under-reported stories.

let me start by asking what is happening here in illinois? why are so many people in this state wrongfully convicted? why is this an issue in illinois. >> it may be the they have a basis in other places sell well -- as well. there is a movement here to uncover the situation. fowomen know the case of dan burch -- we know about the case of dan burich. he was in the right place at the right time. he was in school. it was pulled out and in jail for 30 years.

he is innocent and out. once his pardoned, he can sue for some kind of compensation. one is getting their records out and exposing the fact the they are innocent. then it is the governor having the courage to set them free. then when they're out of jail, getting them to fully function. >> i want to come to you because i read about you in california where a live. i read about it because it was your case that brought to the four this particular number. your case raises to the level of 6% in significance. it raises to the level of 6% the number of persons wrongfully convicted on death row. 6% of the people sitting on death row in illinois are

wrongfully convicted. that comes to live because of your story. tell me more the back story of your case. >> i was arrested, charged, convicted, and sentenced to death for the murder of a young newlywed couple. i had corroborated alibi which remains corps raided to this very day. yet every appeal process with two execution dates for over 12 years in state courts i was denied. if it had not been for the efforts of people outside the system, an honest a police officer, a federal judge who actually read the record for the very first time, i would be dead today or, at the very least, doing time without parole. there is so much -- there are so many systemic problems with the death penalty in illinois that finally we have it abolished and

it is over with. but that does not mean that the system is fixed. how many others are out here doing life without parole which is a passive death sentence for 30 years or 40 years that were railroaded with the same system that put me on death row and almost took my life? what would you say to people watching, randy, who feel the you and your comments on this stage right now? there is no perfect public policy. so mistakes might be made along the way. by and large, we get most the people who are guilty. by and large, we get most of the folks who are doing the wrong doing and we are sorry for what happened to you. but mistakes were made because no public policy is perfect. what do you say to those persons? >> i say that it is a human factor. the capital punishment system was put in place by humans who sometimes have agendas, who have blind allegiance to the system, to where they believe what a

police officer or a prosecutor says no matter what because you are the defendant. i honestly believe that the defendant has the burden of proof, to prove that you are innocent in a court of law. this system has been broken for decades. when you have prosecutors and police officers who have qualified an absolute immunity for their conduct, they will continue that misconduct in order to gain convictions. they deal lead to much. in my case and in the rest of these guys cases, that is what happens. that drives people into the system. tavis: before we go on, you are the only white male with five african-american males. when we tend to think of criminals, when we tend to think of those who are sitting on death row, those who are incarcerated, for whatever reason, we tend to think of it

in color coded ways. we do not think of white guys in this country being wrongfully convicted. we do not think of what guys sitting on death row. what do you have to say? >> is very clear. two-thirds of those who were innocent on death row work of color. but we were innocent. so it shows you that it goes beyond race. that is the systemic problem with the system that we have in place. tavis: what you think you were pulled out of school and spend three decades wrongfully convicted, falsely imprisoned? three decades, johnny. >> much the same as i am now, i met all but the system could be so cruel and the people can -- i that a system could

be so cruel and that people can be so blind. i was left unprotected. i did not know how or what to do. my dad had a fourth grade education. he could not really respond to what they were doing. it was not what i was talked by officer friendly, the religious sector of my community. i was just relying on the people of my community to protect me. i never spoke during trial. the only time i ever said anything -- there was no physical evidence to time to the case. there were no eyewitnesses. there was nothing really thing that took place in today's was interrogation -- the only thing

in two days was in today' interrogation. tavis: how did they torture you? >> it was more of a psychological torture. they took my clothes. they took hair samples from me. they took blood samples for me. those were without a court order. the give me no real reason why i was a suspect. i was just a person that could have possibly helped solve the case. but it went from one extreme to the next. through the questioning, i broke down. when i admitted as they wound along -- when i refused to sign the confession, i found myself sitting on trial.

>> you ended of confessing to -- tavis: you ended up confessing to what? >> to a double murder. to the death of my friend. that was an order for me to go home. but they say, no, you can go home. but i told you what you wanted to hear. can i go home? but it was not to be. i was at trial at age 14. i was prosecuted and found guilty by a jury with no evidence whatsoever. he asked for the death penalty at 14. that was the only time i spoke. so the judge sentenced me to 50 years to 100 years. i was given an attorney, ted godfrey, probably one of the most awesome appellate councils in the country. he came to see me and he told me he would bring me home.

i won the right to a new trial. the appellate court ruled unanimously that i was in custodial interrogation, no right to read, nothing they said the word "badgered," rather than tortured. they send me back. throughout the confession, they had no substance, no nothing one of the most awful things that happened in this case is that a former prosecutor, who is now a federal judge, two prosecutors came out and said that there was no evidence to tie you to the crime or the to the scene of a crime. now the question is not if you would be released, but when. that did not take place. they convicted me with absolutely no evidence. they brought three witnesses that they did not bring in the first trial.

the brolin from a drug rehab center can all of them had criminal records against them. they, too, became victims in this grand scheme. tavis: how does it feel to sit here after the ordeal and still not have complete closure on this because you cannot, at the moment at least, get a full pardon from the set of illinois? >> through the grace of god, in the situations like mine, like theirs, to be used to bring attention -- yes, i hurt. i did not get to go to high school, go to the prom, play football, all of those things that i desired to do. but reverend jackson has given me an opportunity to head up this project here. i feel like a soldier in the

military. i get to go behind enemy lines and bring those home and give my voice to those who do not have a voice. this is my way of healing. there is no curriculum to deal with what we went through in any institution. tavis: let me ask one last question for you, john. how does a teenager process the state wanting to give him the death penalty? how does a teenager psychologically process that? i ask that because we know there are other underage youth in this country in various states having this conversation right now. >> i did not process it. i cannot process it to this day.

to read what happened to him, i felt like i am thankful that i was allowed to be alive because i could have been the first person ever executed in the united states at that age. that is still emotionally strain upon me. i stay away from it because i cannot believe that they actually wanted to take my life and they knew that i was innocent. so i cannot do with that. >> he has this passion to go behind enemy lines for others who have themselves been victims of this kind of system. poor withoutck and legal representation, you are subject to be hit. tavis: i am not sure how much more of this bidentate, how much my heart can take. the stories you have heard from john and randy are arresting to

the soul. i want to get to markets and can -- to marcus and ken. tell me how you found yourself falsely imprisoned? >> i was older. i was 29 years old. i was fresh out of the navy. i had done seven years in the navy. i was working for a fortune 500 company in the suburbs. there's a knock on my door and it is the police. a white woman had been sexually assaulted by a black male. i am the only one in this high rent complex. i am also in the army reserves. on top of that, i am a college they knock -- i am a psychologist didn't. then knock on my door and i think, it cannot be me. they said to give them my clothes. take it.

i can help you in any way i can. not a problem. they came back and said, come down, we want to talk with you. i said, no problem. i went down there and they took my photo i.d. from my job and said that the woman identified your photograph. i am the only one in the photographs line up with a necktie on. i am the only one who could afford to stay there where i work. to make a long story short, i found myself indicted in front of a jury that convicted me with no evidence and i was just shocked. my mother hired an appellate attorney. he was telling me all the time that i was in cousin, "you have to be patient, be patient, be patient." i got out and found out that he

never filed the appeal. i lost it. i took a wooden cross out of railroad ties and a ticket to the court house and i yield myself to the cross. i mother told me when i was a child, when you have a problem, take your problems to the lord. they were upset. tavis: we minute. to get the attention of the criminal courts system that was not giving you the respect that you deserve, you went to the courthouse and nail yourself to a cross to get the kind of the media attention needed to get. >> in my navy uniform. tavis: what happens when you did that? >> i nailed my foot and the officer grabbed it and said, "your 15 minutes of fame has come to an end." they took me to a hospital and then they took me back to the

courthouse. the judge said, "disturbing the peace. $100. here you go." i am supposed to leave. i am leading. next thing you know, "we in this room." i am not waiting anywhere. i am leading. my school was caved in -- my skull was caved in by one of the police officers. when i came to, i was in a mental hospital and they would not release me. i guess the prosecutor said, "this nigger is crazy." so they kept me for a week and they would not release me. i had to find someone who could come get me. when i got out of prison, they had put me in a homeless shelter because i could not leave the state. i was originally from indiana. i started doing my own investigation.

i came across some other things that i needed. i applied to those things. i applied my military training. that is why i feel that i am an example for young blacks here. the rev. oakridge as education, education. my education over -- the rev. preaches education, education. my education overturned my conviction. i out with a federal agent to do it, but it worked. -- i outwitted a federal agent to do it, but it worked. tavis: we honor those people who put their lives on a one for our country. you did that in the navy. how could this happen to a man who served this country in the navy? >> they did not know i was in

the navy when they did this. they had no idea. how can happen? i was astonished. all i saw was black face. there was no other black males around. it is you. no evidence. you are in it. they just grabbed me and use me. that is how i feel. i went to washington to talk with the military. that was in 2009. they told me, "we cannot help you." i have spoken with my congressman and he had given me some names. so i flew to washington to talk to somebody because i want to be reinstated. i want my 24 years back. >> reverand, what do you make of the fact that -- obviously, we can see black and white.

can we falsely accused, falsely convict, falsely imprisoned again and then have them go to these kinds of extremes, putting themselves onto a cross outside of the court house, just to draw attention to this case? why does it have to be this difficult? >> my father came from world war ii. he had to sit behind nazi pow's. he could not vote. it hurts. it took so long. 25 million people are arrested in half of them are african american. most of them are non-violent offenses. they are destroying families and

disrupting the lives of people. when it is all over, they cannot get a job. they come out of jail without an id. the come out without an "i sorry."e" or clo"i am tavis: did the state give you a check? >> $26.45, that is all i got when i was released. thank god i had a loving and supportive family tavis: john, i see tears running down your face. why the tears after all these years? >> it should not take the slow -- is should not take this long. it has been a tough 35 years for me, 25 years for randy -- justice is not what we seek.

justice is what prevents injustice from taking place. all we ask for is to let the truth what the truth does. all we as this to be conversive conversators so we can get on with the rest of our lives. we should not have to struggle. we should not be compared to willie horton. politicians keep using him as an excuse for not doing the right thing. willie horton was guilty when he went into prison and he was guilty when they let him out. he has nothing to do with their situation. no just legislator, no just clergy's, no just people can sit here and watch what we have been through. if it had not been for jonathan, reverand, and especially the

media -- they have been wonderful at exposing the injustice in this country and around the world. we would not have a voice. we would still languish in those places. and they would pretend like nothing happened. tavis: next time, we will hear the story of a former police officer who was wrongfully convicted of a serious crime while on duty at the university of chicago. we will also look at the work being done to combat wrongful convictions. keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smi ley. tavis: join me next time for the work being done in illinois. >> all i know is my name is james and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james.

>> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> mission when interest supports tavis: myerlee -- tavis smiley. nationwide it on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.