tv Tavis Smiley PBS October 25, 2011 12:00am-12:30am PDT
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with "new york times" excessive editor jill abramson. her thoughts tonight on a very busy last several days in the news business and her new book "the puppy diaries." and also john carlos. his defiant salute at the 1968 summer olympics. he is out now with a new memoir called "the john carlos story." we're glad you have joined us. "new york times" excessive editor and olympian john carlos coming up right now. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side.
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>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. kcet public television] tavis: a few quick programming notes. first tonight, some terrific conversations coming up tonight and all this week. tomorrow night nile rogers is here. a conversation with anita hill. hard to believe it has been 20 years since the scandal that propelled her into the public eye and jerry west on thursday and friday jackie collins. tonight, though, we are pleased to kick off this week with jill abramson. last month she took over as
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excessive editor of the "new york times". the first woman to lead the paper in its 160-year history. she is also the author of a new book called "the puppy diaries." raising a dog named scout. let me add my congratulations to the millions i'm sure you have been receiving. >> thanks so much, tavis. so glad to be here. tavis: i'm delighted to have you on. a lot of us celebrated the decision when you were named excessive editor. i never thought it possible that a woman could lead the "new york times" and that the managing editor would be a black man who spent some time with us here in los angeles. what are we to make in the most multiethnic america ever that an african-american and woman run
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"new york times" every day. >> they take it very seriously. i think dean is the best news man in the country. so of course i turned to him to be my pick for managing editor. tavis: for those who don't know your back story and how long you have been with the times and the assent to the top, tell me how you got to be excessive editor. >> how i got to be excessive editor i'm not sure i know the full story because our publisher picked me but i came to the "new york times" in 1997 in washington where i spent most of my career, basically, i covered investigative stories and all matter of political scandals and became an editor in 2000 at "new york times" and the first woman to become washington bureau
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chief, which is an important post at the times and i came up to new york in 2003 to be managing editor for news. and did that, working very happily for bill keller for about eight years and then was promoted to be excessive editor. tavis: there are a lot of people, as a matter of fact, i'm reminded of a joke which really is funny but had some serious points to be made in the telling of it. i remember a friend of mine years ago was telling me a joke about the fact that at the time american cities started to tank all of the african-american mayors started to pop up. things started to get so bad, you can have l.a. tom bradley. you can have chicago, harold washington. you can have newark. you can have cleveland. so what does it say given the turmoil that the newspaper industry is in that now we have
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the asovepks women and people of color -- ascension of women and people of color to the top. is this a good time or a bad time to be running the new york times? >> it is a good time. our future is very bright both in print and digitly. we have more readers than ever who have subscribed to the newspaper for two years or more and our audience digitally has remained very strong while we have gone to pay a subscription model. tavis: let me talk about a couple of issues. your sense of twhornts "new york times" and the media more broadly. now we have the president selling us we're getting out of iraq at the end of the year. was the media too complacent? did we not ask the questions
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that werked have asked in the first place? -- we should have asked in the first place? >> it is a question, tavis, that i have thought a lot about over the years. the war in iraq started march 19, 2003, and when i look back on the way the media played its role back then, i think one thing we didn't do enough of, although there were a few news organizations that did, is listen to the dissenting voices inside the bush administration, particularly at the c.i.a., who thought the evidence that iraq had a weapons of mass destruction program was very flimsy indeed and instead, we let the war of other top government officials drown out those voices and it was not a moment of glory, broadly speaking. tavis: some argue in retrospect that the media gave mr. obama a
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pass. that a few years ago everybody seemed to want him to win, hence all of these accusations of the so-called liberal media bias. your thoughts about that and how you think the times is going to cover successfully this race for the white house? >> we have always been equal opportunity tough at the "new york times." during the 2008 campaign, we ransom investigative stories that the obama campaign definitely did not care for and we have had very sober assessments of his performance in the white house and will cover the campaign the way we always cover campaigns. we get behind the curtain and dig and look at the donors and what the candidates are saying and truth tests of statements. tavis: all of the black ink on my hands not withstanding, i read "new york times" first thing every morning. i'm an old school guy and i love reading the paper.
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i go online but i love putting the paper in my hands. i love reading books. i love the old school way. there are those who ask whether the times will be the times as we know it several years down the road? >> i think it is very hard to be a soothsayer, that's for sure. i think they will be publishing in print and digitally at the same time, one news report for all platforms, we public stories when they are ready to be published and i think that is going to be my reality for my tenure as excessive editor. tavis: have you already figured out or is it too soon to ask what you want your legacy to be? every leader comes in with things they want to achieve. do you know what that list is or what is on the short list? >> one for sure that is on the short list is that we are in the middle of a digital
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transformation where our news room has undergone tremendous change. one thing by the way that hasn't changed is the quality and the high standards of our news report. finishing that journey is going to be my legacy. we used to talk about the digital future. it is the digital present and making sure that everyone in our news room is comfortable with that and able to do their best work for that kind of reality is my mission right now. tavis: there are a lot of people talking about not just your new job but about your new book "the puppy diaries, raising a dog named scout". what is it about books about dogs that seem to make the "new york times" best seller list consistently? >> well, from your lips to god's ears, tavis, but you know, i think that people feel very
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passionately about their pets. and that a simple reason and why i wrote "the puppy diaries" is it began as part of the new york times online news report and i chronicled our boisterous, wonderful, affectionate puppy's first year in a column and the response to it was passionate in the extreme. every aspect of dog life seemed to invite not only interest but argument and that fascinated me and the chance to weave it all into one narrative story and develop many of the characters who we came across during her first year was just a total joy. tavis: the character we're talking about, her name is scout, and there she is on the cover of jill abramson's new book. the book is called "the puppy
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diaries: raising a dog named scout." how you got the dog and bonded with the dog when she was recuperating. i'm delighted to have you on the program for the first time. i pray not the last. >> thank you very much. i would love to come back. tavis: good to have you on. >> up next, olympic icon john carlos. stay with us. tavis: john carlos was one of the most iconic symbols of the 1960's after a medal winning performance at the 1958 games. he is out now with a wonderful new text, a memoir called "the john carlos story." the sports moment that changed the world. john carlos, sir, an absolute honor to have you on this program. >> thank you, mr. smiley.
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it is an honor to be here. tavis: my friend, dr. west. >> dr. southwest a god send to. i'm so appreciative. tavis: let me jump to the end. then i'll come back to the beginning. this one person was left with this basic question, which is whether or not after all you have had to endure, was it worth it? >> let me just say i wouldn't add nor would i take away anything. it was very much worth it. if we enhance the lives of just one individual. tavis: you said you would do it again tomorrow if it was necessary. what made this moment necessary in 1968? >> well, as a kid growing up and seeing so much strife taking place in society, particularly on blacks and people of color, i had an opportunity to witness a change taking place in harlem.
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the exode us of white folks. they felt they needed to leave. becoming involved in sports and traveling the world and seeing how people of color were treated around the world and america being such a great nation, probably the greatest makes the in the world, i think the thing that would destroy this nation more than anything is the inequalities that we have amongst people of color. tavis: speaking of inequalities, we focus on the salute and on the black glove. what we never talk about are the beads, the bare feet. walk me through symbolic parts of the attire that you had on that day. >> let's start with the black gloves. we felt for the first time ever they had been televised worldwide. the second thing, the fact that it was in color. no games had been shown in color
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before. we wanted to be understood that we were representing america but black america in particular. that's why we put the black glove on. the beads around my neck indicated there were so many blacks throughout the history of this country that have been maimed and killed by way of hangings. then the black socks emphasize the fact that we had so many blacks. the greatest country in the world running around in poverty every day. had to walk 20 miles to and from school every day with no snuse the greatest country in the world. we wanted to bring attention to the fact that we had so many zeals taking place that we could have -- deals taking place that we could have brought about change. tavis: to those who still think now that the olympic games is no place for political statements, your response what? >> well, i think the olympic
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games have been stared to political statements. if i go back to berlin in 1936, it was politically ore yen tated then with the nazis taking place relative to -- and that was then. if you look at the olympic games as a whole, if you say we didn't boont interject politics -- want to enter jebt policies why do we use the nation's flags? why don't we just say man versus man? tavis: how were you treated? you go into this in the book in detail for the audience. how were you treated or mall treated wheven you got back -- when you got back to the country? >> it was chaotic everywhere. i think making the adjustment why so many people you grew up
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with in the sport found it necessary to turn their backs and walk away from you. they didn't particularly say they didn't like us or had the love for us that they had in the past nor the respect, i think they chose to leave based on the fact they felt a reprisal for having a friendship with john carlos or tommy smist or peter norman. tavis: i'll come to peter in just a second. you mentioned they walked away from you. i know that had to be. . there were a lot of folks who stayed with you. every major negro athlete of the day from ali to jim brown to bill russell to kareem adbul-jabar. there were a lot of folks sympathetic to your cause. >> there were but you take into account that tommy smyth, we were not recognized.
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never got a voice. those figures such as the individual you just mentioned the muhammad ali's, the jim brown's, the bill russells, kareem. when you say the coverage that was done relative to the support was shallow. they blocked their support of us but those individuals were old enough and wild enough and they knew their history. this is why they came out in support of us because they knew we had our finger on the right move. >> you mentioned the name peter norman. i must admit that name escaped me for years. one thing i want to thank you for is bringing back to our remembrance who peter norman really was. what his contribution was. the way he suffered. the indignity with which he died. tell us who peter norman was. >> he is a man's man. a humanitarian. and i say is because in my life, he is never deceased. he is always going to live with me. here is a man of principle and
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pride and had strong moral character. he was born and raised under the auspices of his mom and dad being involved in the salvation army. i'm sure it was people that told him hey, man, you shouldn't have done what you did. yet still, peter norman took oo into account that the aborigines were suffering just as much in australia as the blacks in america. >> when you sit back and think about tommy smyth, they can go beat up on tommy smyth and try to find john carlos and beat up on him. when peter norman left and went to australia, there was no switchoff. they beat him from sun up to sun down. peter never denounced us. never turned his back on us. never walked away from us.
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never said one thing against what he stood for in mexico city. that was freedom, justice and quality for all of god's people. tavis: there you go. for all the talk about tommy smyth and john carlos, what john did not say because he is such a good friend. peter norman is the third guy. the other members on the stand, who was a to tommy and he heard john say he went to australia, for standing with them, the hell that he caught for the rest of his life. he died in what year, john? >> he died in 2004, i think it was. tavis: were you a pallbearer? >> no, he actually died 2005 the year after the games. yes, i was a pallbearer. i felt when i god got the call that he died, i didn't have a bank account but there was no way in the world that i was
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going to miss peter norman's service. tavis: what did peter say the day after that incident where he was the third man, the white guy on the stand? >> we say collectively in terms of the fact that we were getting ready to face the biggest storms of our life and we had to stand strong for what we believe in and carry on the legacy what we just laid down for society. tavis: did he ever recuperate or recover from that in australia? >> i think peter norman recuperated in the sense that peter norman knew who peter norman was. he billed built his character around the legacy of his family. he never vacated from himself as to who he was. i think society had to grow up to the mentality of peter norman. tavis: we see today athletes who are as successful as you were come back home and make all kinds of money with endorsements and the like. obviously that wasn't going to happen for you and tommy smyth,
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when you returned but tell me about the economics. i worked for tom bradley when he worked for this city and i was just a kid. you were economically destitute when you got back. >> well, you know, it is amazing. when you have all the money that you have saved going out and you have nothing coming in. fortunately for me, i was able to see the newspaper and saw they were hiring in a new program and i recall going one of my olympic buddies and saying this might be a shot in the arm for us. let's go apply for these jobs. i took a job as a gardner caretaker. tavis: a gardner caretaker. >> yes. i had this experience this particular day. i was down there pulling weeds out of the ground. i saw these big shoes wac walk up on me. i looked up and i saw this big
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belly and when i looked, it was rosey grier dressed up as santa claus going to give the kids some good cheer for christmas. rosy was amazed. what are you doing there? i said i have to do what i have to do to take care of my family. he said you don't have to do that. i said i'm not too proud to do any job to support my family. he said take this number and give a call to mr. tom bradley monday, which i did. rosey grier was a springboard to the return of my life. tavis: you mentioned your family. you got married really young and one of the tragedies is that your wife, you were separated at the time, your wife from all the stress and strain that your family had to endure took her own life at some point down the road. how do you prostezz pain this
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brought on your family? >> this is a pain that i live with every day of my life. i think about how beautiful my wife was as a person and such a caring person and had a lot of concern about what we had to face as a family. the government did a lot of things in terms of sending pitches to my house, singing a song. they would send things to my wife saying i had sex with this woman and that woman and it got to the point my wife didn't know what to believe any more. the fact that i didn't have a job and wasn't able to pay my bills and was getting ready to go through a mental setback and depression. teachers denying my kids the grades they should have once they found out i was their father. as many things as she had to deal with, she got to the point where she didn't know what to
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believe anymore, she just didn't care about life anymore. i think it was devastating at that particular time and it was even more devastating today as we grow older. tavis: what is the john carlos story these days? how is john carlos doing these days? >> god is good. i'm blessed every day. i'm strong. bottom line to my life is i'm going through or thements in my life but it -- torments in my life but it made me stronger. i'm not a dope fiend or a drug pusher or a stickup man. i'm a man who has a vision how this world can be. i'm a well-rounded person who still fights for justice. tavis: he was a humanist then and is now. in my mind john carlos is an authentic american hero. it is a powerful book. called simply "the john carlos story" with a forward by cornel
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west. i love you and i am honored to have you on this program. >> thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. tavis: you deserve it. you have earned it. that's our show. as cules, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavisleat p >> join me next time for a conversation with nile rogers. that's next time. we'll see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy
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