tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. a conversation with donna britt. she has written a poignant memoir about the death of her brother at the age of 26. the new book is called "brothers (& me)." also, country legend merle haggard is here. we are glad you have joined us. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better.

>> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: donna britt is a former pulitzer nominated writer for the washington post. her first book is a look at her upbringing in segregated gary, indiana. it is called "brothers (& me)."

she joins us tonight from washington. i was surprised, as long as i have known you, i did not realize that this is your first book. >> it has taken me a while. i waited until i had something to say. tavis: you waited until you had something to say. topline for me, what did is you felt you wanted to say or needed to say at this particular moment? >> the book is about two different things. it is about how the death of my brother affected me in ways that i had no idea. it is interesting for everyone who experiences a loss, you know how difficult it is to get through. most of us really do not want to go? that deep into pain.

it forced me to go deeper and to understand what it meant. the other part is about women and giving. it is something that i have thought about. women i know give so much. i was just talking to the woman who did my makeup. we were saying that this is the secret that women have. we offer so much. especially to the men in our lives. those two things are joined together. my brother's death exacerbated by an increase it and deepened my giving. i do not know if i am not special. tavis: i think you are pretty special. is there something special that was going on or happening in your life around this time that made you finally want to go wrestle with this? i take your point that people do not want to deal with these kinds of tragedies.

what's happened at this point in your life that made you say, i am going to deal with this. >> i was meditating. when you go into meditation, you get really still. my son asked me to do something i had absolutely no time to do. in meditation, and i had to stop. if i do not do this for my son, he will die. it makes no sense, it is not rational. i realized that the 30 years -- for 30 years, i felt responsible in some way that did not make any sense. it informs my life from the moment that my brother died. his death was at the hands of police. to this day, i do not understand what happened.

there were no drugs in his system. it made no sense. what i did was, and i think a lot of women did this, i took the responsibility for not have taken- for not haven't care of them. i was not checking in with them. i was not protecting him. i felt like i had to take care of all the men in my life. this came as a complete surprise to me. you have read my column and you know how personal id is. i had so little knowledge of myself. tavis: how is it that you make sense out of something that does not make any sense? to this day, you do not know what happened. even when the boat is completed, how have you come to making sense that does not make -- out of something that does not make any sense? >> my youngest son, he asked me

early in this but, if you could have been a super power, what would you have? i am thinking of all the stuff that i could do. he says, would you like to go back in time? you could save your brother. i was paralyzed. i could not move. i had to think about it. his death changed me so much. in some ways, i would not know who i was. being able to go back, i can not make sense of his passing in such a violent way. what i can do is try to make sense of the effects. it feels wonderful to have this book so that i can maybe help other people and other women steady losses in their lives and see what the effects of them are. this giving thing is not just

for me and not just about made. when i was writing this book, i would describe it to other women. inevitably, it does not matter how powerful they are. they told me these amazing stories of giving. usually, to the men in their lives. there husband, boyfriend, there -- their sons. we are supposed to be so independent and autonomous. this getting think is something that so many of us have. tavis: i wonder if this is a black woman thing or a white woman thing. black mothers love their sons. they raised their daughters, but they love their sons. you referenced already all three

of your boys. you could not help but just talk about your boys in this conversation. >> it is a woman thing. most of the women i described the book to or white women. i talked to every kind of woman about it. what i discovered when i discovered my own -- the way my giving was tied up in my brother, it made sense to me about black went in. i used to write articles that i would wonder why a black women's would be raising signs in defense of guys who have done things that i felt were on -- indefensible. but it was killing their ex-wife and their friend.

sleeping with voice out there fairy tale ranch. i think about all of these instances were black men's behavior, to me, i did not kill any compunction to defend these guys. and yet there were all these sisters out there feeling they deserve the benefit of the doubt. tried to make sure they got a fair shake. my brother's death made the understand those women. in some ways, it made me like them. i grew up middle-class. i grew up with college educated parents. i went to graduate school, a professional career. i was supposed to be protected in ways that so many black women are not. they know how vulnerable their men are. having that happen to me made me realize and understand some much almost these women's

reflexive impulse to protect black men. tavis: protecting black men is one thing, spoiling them is another. my mother is watching this right now and i know she is laughing. i happen to have seven younger brothers. part of the problem with a couple of my seven younger brothers is that my mother has spoiled them to death. not to me. it is one thing to want to protect black boys, black men. it is another thing to over protect them. i ask how your brother's death has impacted how you've raised your boys. >> it has made me be very clear with them on how to behave with police.

who tend to target and kurtz and kill black men -- and hurt and killed black men. i really want my boys to be appreciative of everything that is given to them. not just by me, but i know my son c.m.e. talking about appreciating the women in their lives. and wanting them to make -- to be good brothers. i feel so blessed to be growing up with three smart and created an independent and wonderful black men. they taught me early on to love black men. expressing appreciation for all the good brothers there out there doing the right thing. and one in my sons to be among them. and they are. i am incredibly proud. tavis: put the cover of this

book back on the screen. before i got into the book, i had some expectation because of the way the title is laid out. i can tell that you were involved in this. the way the title is laid out -- "brothers (& me)." i ask whether or not you have gotten over that. have you changed your perception about your relationship to the men in your life? does this cover still reflect where donna britt is? does that make sense? >> it does make sense. i think most people would say that i am pretty self-sufficient and independent. i do not have a problem speaking

not for myself. it is much more subtle than that. it is my own impulse to do for the guys in my life. that is why the small letters and parentheses because sometimes i make that choice myself. no one forces that on me. we give because we want to. we feel a need to do that. it is part of our dna. a brilliant creator would ensure the survival of the race by having one sex be the one that nurtures and supports and does the work that is not so interesting, but required for life. one thing that i would like to happen with women reading about is that they can all and they're giving and not be so ashamed of it. this is a beautiful thing. it is a spiritual gift. if we can understand it and college, maybe you can control its a little bit better.

that is what is happening with me. it has helped me to pull back and to give a little bit less and began to take) away. that is my temptation, to step back and let them have the floor. tavis: it takes a great deal of courage to write a book like this. i think you are pretty special to put this on the pages of a text. the new book is called "brothers (& me)." donna, honor to have you won the program. >> thank you for having me. tavis: up next, merle haggard. stay with us. please welcome merle haggard to this program. the country music legend is considered to be one of the most influential country artist in

history. his latest disk is called "working in tennessee." an honor to have you on this program. are you doing all right? good to have you here. it has been a long road. that is a lot of hits, man. >> we have had over 100 and the charts over the years. it has been an enjoyable life. tavis: how do decide, who convinced you to take your music seriously? >> i made that decision. it was either the guitar or the cotton patch. it did not take a lot of intelligence to make that decision. tavis: tell me about the project. >> it is our latest effort.

it is a song that has a couple of different meanings. it is partly current events. flood down there in tennessee and it is kind of a ball back. i looked up on television one day and they were talking about a flood. i imagined what i would feel like if i saw my guitar floating by. i wrote that song for the trailing thoughts of that song writing endeavor. does that make sense? tavis: you mentioned to the guitar. held important, how would you describe the relationship you have had with this instrument all these years? >> it is like a woman. it demands attention.

you have to loved it to do it. there is no, nothing in the world that can make you work that hard. it is a tremendously hard instrument to play. especially when you get older. you know, you fall apart. the things you take for granted when you are young, you cannot do any more. guitar falls into that category. it is hard to do. tavis: you are still managing. >> i am still doing it and getting paid. tavis: i saw this and i did not know what to expect. i thought the pbs special about you was pretty amazing. what did you think? >> i thought it was good. it stirred up a lot of ticket sales for us.

we travel all the time. each little thing stimulates. every new album will stimulate ticket sales. tavis: the still like a live performance? >> it is necessary. it is part to of it. it is also -- got hour or so out on stage, we do about 75 minutes. nothing is going to change. we are in charge of that hour and 15 minutes. it is enjoyable. we go back to real life when we are done. it is necessary for record sales, it is necessary for my career. that people find me among the living, i have not passed on.

i did not die a few years ago, i am still alive. we will play in their town. we played their town and they come see the show. that is pretty much the intention. tavis: what inspires your lyrics? does it come from a variety of different sources? >> i am a writer. that is what i do. that is what i have been successful at in my life. i am very much conscious of the things going on around me. politics and the current conditions of the world. i am a spiritual man. i tried to watch all levels of that, and maybe grasp something

different and put it into music. the world is an interesting place. there is a lot of great songs to be written. i at -- i hope i am one of the writers. tavis: to your point that the world is an interesting place. i agree. it is complex, it is getting more and more difficult for people to navigate. people are becoming much more chancellor -- insular. i ask whether the condition of the world is making it easier or difficult to write good stuff. >> communication has made it -- joe blow does not need special equipment to make a record.

there is a lot more people competing, and the communication is so great. at the push of a button, you can hear a new artist. or an old artist, which makes it better for me. did i get off the question? tavis: i love your organic way. i was asking whether or not the condition of the world, with all that is going on, it is making it easier or more difficult as a songwriter. >> both. the wife and i, we try to keep track of the royalty checks. are you a publisher?

are you a writer? are you an artist? they tax us in different manners. it is overwhelming. trying to keep our income straight. a $10 check here and a $5,000 check here. it is overwhelming. today, we have never been in a situation where we had this much intelligence under our belt. we will know more in the next three years that we have known since the beginning of time. tavis: there is a question i have asked countless times. i only ask it of persons who i regard as great songwriters. for you, what makes a great song?

>> "amazing grace" is a great song. everybody knows it. that is what is supposed to happen. "white christmas" is the number- one singles of all time. tavis: i think you're right about that. >> it was written in 1940. at the biltmore hotel by irving berlin on a hot august day, i think. he was dreaming about a white christmas. bing crosby recorded back. he said, we got all that is that

we could get all of that. it went on to be the biggest single of all time. it probably will not change. tavis: it has to resonate with people. >> those are good examples. songs are not poetry. there is a difference. the rappers are doing poetry. but there's no melody. i write a lot of poetry. what poetry is is a song without a melody. it is two different things. a song is different from poetry. tavis: i totally agree. these days, most songwriters do not know how to write a good melody.

>> amen. tavis: the new project from merle haggard is called "working in tennessee." if you did not see the wonderful special on pbs, go on line and find it. you will not be disappointed. a great special about this wonderful artist. it is an honor to have you on this program. >> nice to be here. tavis: that is our show for tonight. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with robert blake. that is next time, we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard.

it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television]