tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, part two with our conversation of one of the central figures in the arab spring uprisings, the formal google executive -- former google executive wael ghonim. events continue to unfold in the least and beyond. his book is called "revolution 2.0." we are glad you are joining us for part two of our conversation with wael ghonim. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you.

thank you. been -- tavis: that now with more of our conversation with wael ghonim, whose book is "revolution 2.0, the power of the people is greater." the egyptian people, i am paraphrasing, have a distrust of american foreign policy, and i laughed, because it was funny, but there is some truth there that we americans do not always trust our foreign-policy, at

least some of us feel that way. we love our country, but we have one day we bounce around, as you are our friend, and then you are not. we will turn on your if you are not a friend or do not fit with our strategic interests. is your assessment that the egyptian people do not trust american foreign policy? tell me more. >> as i mentioned yesterday, there is a long history of taking decisions based on interest and not on value. this is crucial in the trust building. it i know who you are, what you stand for, and i see you acting in a completely different way than who you are and what you stand for, this problem is i do not trust your actions. i do not see your actions, and this is what i was saying that, for example, we do not really care that much about what the u.s. is going to say about the

revolution and about us taking to the streets. the ones that care about the egyptian people are the egyptian people. i believe just to be progressive and to look at what should happen, i believe in the next few years, democracy is a process that is going to take time. we are going to pay a lot of prizes, and we will see a lot of challenges, but there should be a shift in the way relationships are established, and i quote here thomas friedman. i read one of his articles. he said the time of solving problems using phone calls is over, because we're talking about a region where the people who are elected first care about first those voters who gave them their boats, which never would have happened before. mubarak would have taken the decisions and told people, "that is it," and the second is that

those people are the representatives of the masses, of the majority of egypt, for example, so the time for solving problems with phone calls are no longer going to be there. i hope in the next few years we establish a more solid relationship based on interest and value and not just interest. the revolution was very idealistic. no one believed in it. tavis: how annoying is it, and that is my word, not yours, of those experts who appeared to be awfully impatient with the egyptian people where this thing called democracy is concerned, and we are still working on this 200 years later, still trying to get it right, and my friend bill

maher, my friend on hbo, we got into a. we were arguing about the treatment or the maltreatment of women in egypt, and i said we are still working on patriarchy in this country, and we got into a huge fight that the thousands of hits that bill and i got into on this issue. >> you are still friends? tavis: we are still friends. i think we are still friends. the question is, how annoying is it with the impatience of some of our leaders that the violence is ongoing and that you guys are not going about this the right way and etc., etc.? >> again, i am speaking on my behalf, on behalf of myself. i just think that recovering from 60 years of military rule and 30 years of dictatorship is not going to happen in months. i always liked this concept of the helicopter view. when i get frustrated, i get

frustrated like everyone else and am frustrated with the pace of change, but then i like to look back and see the big picture. there have been lots of achievements in the past 12 months. we never thought it would have happened in years. it is good to keep seeking the right way to go, and yet it is also important while you are doing that to be kind of realistic and celebrate successes. we have a success such as the first time in egypt history, they took to the street, almost 50%, more than 50% of the voters, and we are having presidential elections coming very soon. so the egyptian people are finally having a say on democracy. a lot of the frustration happens because that is not what they have been visions, as the people's choice, and to me, i

took to the street not to tell egyptians who they should choose or replacing one dictator with another one button is much better. i went into the street because egyptians were denied the right to choose, and it is time they get the right to choose, and i was disrespected that george w. bush was reelected in the united states for a second term after what happened in iraq. yet, for the american people, that is the choice, which everyone respected because this is democracy, and pretty much the same thing should happen everywhere in the world. again, let's go back to any country recovering from a dictatorship to democracy. it is a process. it will take time. there will be a price. i want to remain optimistic, passionate, and a believer that those who woke up, the critical mass, who now care a lot about the country are no longer scared

and are going to dig the country in the right direction despite the hard times we might be facing. >> -- tavis: not everybody respected and that decision about electing him a second time, but that is the topic for another show. but since you raised george w. bush, let's talk about that many americans and many egyptians and others in the middle east where a very happy about the connection of barack hussein obama. -- the election of him. celebrating the new way we are going to do business in the middle east and the new way we are going to be doing business in that part of the world, and then when the real test comes, where re-staff and onboard versus the people, and then we get we at the knees, so ss or may. i know you said last night that in the end, people were just

happy where mr. obama and where mrs. clinton actually came down, but there were some rocky days, so let's talk about mr. obama specifically. >> they were happy that they took the stand. it was not the reason why this was succeeding. we did not have that during the revolution time. the problem of mistrust requires action. in order to rebuild trust, it is not speeches, it is not media. this will require work.

this is an institution base, not just making the key decisions. you have to work with a team and so on. because the relationship that would happen after we have the president is based on the mutual respect. the people of egypt. the policy reflects the values of the u.s. and not just the interests. tavis: tell us what you were thinking about during those 11 days, having been arrested, blindfolded the entire time? the physical torture and others had to endure, but how much of this reprocessing during the 11 days? >> the hardest part no one knows

where i am. i was taken out of the street, taken on the night of the 27th. i just did not know days were passing. i did not know anything that was going out, and interrogations ended after the third day, so i was waiting. and then the second hardest thing, at least you know where you are, but your family does not know where you are, and my wife was living in dubai, and my kids, i kept trying not to think about them because if i think about them, i would definitely get more broken two years and get more frustrated, which happened one time, because what is she telling them, and will i

be able to see them again? this is what happened when they put me in the car and put my head down and covered my eyes, i was asking myself that. tavis: how did you serve -- survive those 11 days? that process? >> it was very slow. the hours seemed like days, and days seemed like years. i pray five times a day. that was such a relief. every day, i was able to do the prairies. they would not prevent me from doing the prayers. during the time, i was trying to tell myself that at the end of the day, something big was happening outside. i have to pay sort of a price. i believed in it, and it is time to pay the price.

i am very thankful to everyone who helped me, including my family members and global as a company. they did amazing work, and the pressure that happens from the different -- a lot you did not know me were pressuring to get me released. tavis: how much of what was happening on the outside were you aware of on the inside? >> nothing. that was very hard. i thought they were keeping me because everything is going on, it is strong outside, and they do not want me out. i had the opposite feeling that they managed to basically stop it, and i am left year because no one cares anymore, just let him pay the price of doing that. tavis: be referenced awhile ago about the company it google, who, as you say in the book,

worked very hard to raise their voice to get you out. thankfully, you got out, but tell me more about this relationship and whether or not they at times were disappointed, where they frustrated -- again, you are a google executive. you are doing the right thing in many respects, but on the other hand, companies do not like to get involved in controversies. tell me about google. >> i did not tell them about my involvement. i told them i had a personal reason that i needed to be in cairo for for a couple of days. i disappeared. they made a great job, a job that many companies, as you mentioned, would want to stay out of, because we do not know

to what extent, what did i exactly do, why did i disappear, who is capturing a, and it was a very brave action from the company, very unexpected -- i have to say unexpected in general, but when i was in jail, i was expecting it. i know how good will things of their employees, and i knew they would try to help me out. the company hired security companies to try to locate me. they went to the morning's end asked about me in prisons, and they did the campaign for anyone who knows any information about me, they would call in number. that was very personal, and that is what i like about the company, and this is actually what i like about the revolution. it was very personal. i have a lot of people who do not know me, and i feel very connected as if we are brothers and sisters, but the experience

of tahrir square, which i detailed in the book, was very personal. there is this bonds, this unity bond, that was developed among the people during the 18 days, because all of us all of a sudden dreamed that something big could happen, and that was so big that required all of us to unite, which is something i hope happens again, and i am confident it will happen again in a few months, but this time about the future of the country. tavis: tell me, as you say in the book, about how you got out? >> i was told that i was wanted, and without any further notice, he said, "i have very good news for you. we have found that you are not guilty and that you are not part of a plot to destabilize the country, as they said in the beginning, and you are going to be out to." he talked with me for hours

about what i should say when i go out. he told me that i was going to be a very high-profile person, that my words would be accountable, that they have basically done what is possible for the egyptians, and whenever you are dreaming of, which is pretty much true, to a large extent, it is happening. he is no longer growing to reelect himself. but still blindfolded until i was taken out of the prison and going to back home. tavis: when you got out, what did you say prove >> it was a

very happy feeling. i went from being frustrated and afraid to feeling empowered and happy, and i am finally smelling the breeze of freedom. it was like i was out, and i have to say, i should not make myself a hero out of this, but there were a lot of egyptians who were in jail for months, years. some of them were tortured serve nearly. i was not ready tortured by the end of the day. yes, i was handcuffed and blindfolded, psychological torture, but there are those that are tortured with tools that you think came from the 18th century, not the 21st century, or they would stay in prison for years. yet, because i never had this experience, having a very hard impact, i was very proud of what the people did. i was very proud of what the

people did. i met the new minister of interior affairs. he asked me what irritates me, and i said, "befuddle above view," because in egypt, in most of the places, we have the photograph almost everywhere. -- and i said," photograph above you." he asked me why i hated him so much, and i said i did not hate him, but he is not god. he is not faro. why do you have his picture everywhere? he is just a servant for the public. tavis: so you went to jail, and you still did not learn your lesson. you came out talking that way. >> i did not calculate the risk at the time. i felt we had to kind of change this culture of being silent, saying exactly what we believe

and, and the core value of the revolution, they said exactly what they believed in. tavis: since we are talking about mubarak, let me jump ahead. we are close to elections in your country. what is going to happen, and are you going to endorse anybody? >> first, we need to make sure that the elections take place, because that is the core. by having the election and having the president, you are practically speaking, taking away the and executive power, taken away the legal stuff from the military, and now by having a president, you take away the executive power from them, so we need to make sure it happens as soon as possible for the stability of the country and for the better of the army, because the army right now is in a very weak position, in fact, and we

do not want to see our army dissolved, or we do not want to see our army having such issues, so as soon as the presidential elections take place, this is equivalent to february 11, as critical, no matter whom it is elected, democratic, and this is representative of most of the egyptians. and i think i will endorse someone. i do not want to discuss that at the moment, and i am not sure my endorsement will be good or bad at the end of the day for the candidate. tavis: let me ask you this way. is the person you want to doors in the race right now? or is this someone to talk into it? >> i am not going to get into that. i think it is better -- by the way, in the previous election, a

lot of people were asking me, whom are you going to vote, and i did not want to say. at the end of the day, we want to see a democracy. go do your job. research people. do not pick them because x or y or z has picked them. can there be a mistake? so many picked up the wrong candidate. tavis: so as long as the person is democratically elected, you are ok with this? >> i want to help anyone who is democratically elected. i think at the end of the day, what matters for this country, as i mentioned earlier, we want to help deport people first, to help with education and to get the basic needs that they want, and we want to make sure that what happened in the old regime when it comes to violations of human rights are no longer going to be there.

we are talking about a nation that was so strong and so proud of a nation in the past, and the egyptians were so proud of being related, a nation now where people are going to the lottery can get different citizenships or escape through trying to go to europe or travel to the gulf, this needs to be changed, and this is not going to be changed with a mentality of i do not like you. i am not going to work with you. so i am going to work with anyone who is democratically elected, and to make sure that the revolution demands are going to happen. tavis: i want to close our program, wael, asking you about what you hope for the future of your country. you have given me some of that, and i think i want to close with a quote, and i read this to get it to the essence for

television, and one of my favorite artists is a genius by the name of stevie wonder, and stevie wonder has one of his more famous songs called "i wish," and this piece that is written by you is called the same thing. "personally, i wish i had a true voice and my country, a true democracy, not a sham of democracy. i wish we could stand up against corruption and that teachers would establish in the hearts and minds of students and love for knowledge and learning. i wish police of a sears would be the way they were depicted long ago in the movies. i wish the government would stop treating people as if they were children who can be applied to. i wish people would treat one or another without classism. i wish we could rid ourselves of the negativity and passivity. i wish we could learn to differ in opinion without insulting one another. i wish we could love one another, really love one

another. by the way, it is my right to dream and to pursue my dream, and it is your right to dream, and, series a, if we stop dreaming, we would die." >> i wrote that five days before the revolution. tavis: it is a powerful piece, and not just four egyptians, for americans. >> thanks. tavis: we are honored to have you on this american television network called pps. he is wael ghonim, and his book is his memoir, "revolution 2.0, the power of the people is greater than the people in power." that is our show for tonight. we will see you next time on pbs. good night from l.a., and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org.

tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with actresses viola davis and octavia spencer. that is next time. we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where walmart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.