tavis: good evening from los angeles. tonight a conversation with dr. marvin thompson about what it will take to make certain every child in america has a sound education. dr. thompson is tackling one of the most difficult jobs in america -- turning around failing inner-city high school. his no-nonsense approach is being chronicled in a documentary series called "blackborad wars." a conversation about america's schools with principal dr. marvin thompson coming up right now. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminate hunger and we have work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: figuring out how to turn around and save inner-city schools is one of the most important challenges this country faces. i know firsthand from doing reports on education that there are no easy answers but there are individuals who refuse to give up. one of those persons -- dr. marvin thompson he's heading a team that is taking over a

failing school in new orleans. it is the subject of a six part series airing on own. >> we are enforcing a dress code, a zero tolerance for violence. general respect for staff and students. pull your pants up. i expect a little bit of resistance from students as we enforce these rules. >> get them. get security. go. let go! tavis: whoo. so, why did you sign up for this? >> i did not know i was signing up for that. but i guess to answer your question, why am i there? it is about giving young people opportunities they do not have.

i have always had a passion for education, knowing what impact it can have on our children. but in this environment, some of the things that i have experienced there, we anticipated but you cannot walk away from. to have to step into the fray. tavis: what kind of resistance are you getting to these changes, and where is that resistance coming from? >> and initially when you look at the students, that was the initial push back. they were comfortable with the rules -- because they did not think where there were coming from. they saw as control. over time, they understood it was about the culture of the school. if you ask me about the resistance now, it is more external and internal. most of the resistance we have comes from the community. and there are a host of reasons why that happens. the charter movement in new orleans has been expensive. and in many ways, the community feels pushed out. a lot of the teachers who had taught in the community and from

the community are no longer teachers there. from their vantage point, a lot of outsiders are coming in to run the schools. it creates some bank and animosity. -- some angst. tavis: i was working on a special called education under arrest. new orleans was one of the stops. so i spent a few days there. i heard a lot about this charter school movement in new orleans. and one of the rubs against charter schools is that they get to pick and choose who they want to let in. and because they get to pick and choose, they do not have the same burden of any other public school. to take whoever shows up. and you can kick out who you want to kick out. you can weed out -- how to respond to that allegation about the fact that charter schools can be picky and choosy?

>> i think that is a component that does exist in the charter school movement. every school has its own concept. but i can speak to john mcdonogh high schoolin this context. we do not have a draft. we take what land on our field. and so much so that we have even broadened the range of what we are able to build ourselves to support. we take on a large number of over age students. i had a young man who started high school and he disappeared on us in mid october. he showed up yesterday. and i wanted to know where he was and he said he had been in jail. i had no idea because there are lives are at side of school -- there impacted in the ways we cannot imagine. this is a young man that does not need to be pushed away. he is a 19-year-old who has enough credits to be a junior. so the horizon for graduation is still in front of him. i would be remiss to push about that door.

this may be the only place he feels comfortable coming to. and we have the resources. so, yes, in some cases, there are charter schools that have caveat to attending and admission and even dismissal. at our school, admission is open. dismissal, i think the criteria is if you violate what we are trying to do and disrupted consistently without any effort to change, you have to go. tavis: the scene that we saw a moment ago that was a resting to see these kids going at it inside the school. it raised for meat the thought -- for me the thought, of what i saw time and time again, shooting the special. it was about the criminalization of kids. you know this will carry the special is called education under arrest. we are talking about the criminalization of kids. back in the day, we would get into a fight, i would meet you

in the parking lot after school. the fight is what it is. or we go about our business. but the stuff that we were sent to the principal's office for in the worst-case scenario -- that very stuff nowadays gets you the criminal record. once these kids get a criminal record, they are in the system. it is one thing for me to do a special about this. it is another thing for you to have to navigate this every day. talk to me about the criminalization of our kids. >> it is often overlooked. the concept of discipline with kids. the event -- my belief is that the event you are dealing with in front of you is the symptom. when you're dealing with young people and this type of community with the troubles they have, they are bringing to you, the table an absence of skills. so those are opportunities when you are sitting in front of them to educate. discipline should be corrected. it should not be punishment. i should not be -- these are

young people. you said it. with their lives ahead of them. it is not my responsibility to label them. it is my responsibility to provide corrective action so they understand. tavis: are already labeled. they are labeled by the law. >> goo dpoint. these young people need some counseling. we talk about role models. role models are not fixtures. they are people who provide something that changes or impacts your life. if there is nothing more than some advice and taking the time -- it is time consuming. i said earlier, it is about saving lives. if we criminalize our kids in our schools, everything is about a consequence. and a consequence create a paper trail that leads to something else. and oftentimes, the court cases, someone pulls back and says, what is their school record? schools should not be the first stage towards that journey. tavis: you used the word earlier

-- culture. you said, i think i know you meant but my mind was trying to process. does he mean the culture inside the school or the culture in which they are raised and have to navigate every day? and it can mean either. talk to me about the culture, that broader societal culture you are up against that produces these kids. and how when they get to you, you have to create a culture in sight of your school which is oftentimes diametrically opposed. your culture is diametrically opposed to the culture from which they come. >> i had a colleague, a mentor tell me a long time ago was when i was complaining about -- i was an assistant principal and complaining about the kids in our school and how much i was having to deal with. i think he got tired of my wining. he said, do you think the parents keep the good ones at home? they send us the best they have.

it stuck with me. you're right. the good ones are not sitting at home. they do not want good or bad. that culture -- that was when i began to understand that if the parents are sending us the best they have. then what is the best they are? they have given their best. this is not a position of judging parents and judging what they have given, but understanding what they are capable of giving. most often the kids we are looking at our products of the same community that produced the previous generation. and i think there is a misnomer about generations when it comes to education. generations are not you and tavis and our demographers compared to somebody in their 20's. and the younger people. a generation in education is less than a 8 years. so it's every 8 years.

when you start looking at what impact it has on the community. it is not the longevity of k-12. it is less than that. going into a school trying to change it is a constant culture building. you are having to absorb that, -- to me, i never try to judge the extern the culture. not my place. not my job. i am not the mayor. i am not a politician. i stay away from that. i do not project outward. i will change what is inside. and really, that is what schools are supposed to do. if i can build a stronger culture with our young people understanding their own communities and what their communities, how they impact their communities positively, i now have an opportunity to strengthen them and change that cycle of less equality. tavis: i hear you. you are not the mayor. you are not the police chief. you are not the pastor.

and yet, you do have to deal with these best of kids that are being sent to you. that is true in any city. but it is particularly and especially difficult to pull that off in a city like new orleans. that had pre-existing conditions, shall we say, before katrina. and it has not gotten better since katrina. so i was struck when i saw -- when i was doing this series. and it was based specifically at your school. it was a long way of asking, how much more difficult is it for you to navigate this journey at this school in new orleans post- katrina? >> wow. i did not know much about new orleans, other than a tourist view. when i arrived, i got an eye opening -- my dad was a marine.

we lived all over the country. sometimes in civilian communities and sometimes on base. i thought i had seen and heard enough. these young people and the city itself have yet to one, recover from katrina. as he said, there are pre- existing conditions. i find that my young people have a very narrow vision. the inability to project long- term outside of that world. in the world of school, that is the biggest shock to me is that they can't project beyond their immediacy. and when i talk to them about best case scenario, the things the present to me are things that most of us take for granted. i asked a young man at some point what did he think it was going to take for him to have his own apartment and have a card? and he tells me a half a million dollars. this is an 18-year-old young man

who has no concept of the monetary value of things. and what in the next steps in the next couple of years, what world he will step into. the gap between the reality of that dynamic and his perceptions can cost him -- can cause him to do several different things. if he thinks he needs a half million dollars to do something, is that the driver for some of his actions? so there are some of the different questions that have coeome to me and awakenings about where the larger community is. tavis: what your experience is primarily responsible for those fears, for those dreams come of those aspirations of being in their mind at least already foreclosed on? >> i do not think they hear hope. these young people are loved.

the community loves them. as much as the crime and the hurt that happens in the community, much of it is done by themselves to each other. it is not adults. so there is love there. but one of the things -- i said this last week. we in poor communities use that love to keep us uplifted. but that love sometimes lead to failure because it does not mean and move to that village mentality of pushing us forward. if no one is pushing you forward, no one is looking forward. i do not hear a lot about -- o fthis is where i want you to go. there is not a lot of possibilities. and i think that is something that is absent in their daily dialog. tavis: i have been in new orleans a lot of years and this is something i have personally not figured out. i suspect that being seen in new orleans, i will get a ton of e mail. of all of the american cities i have traveled to, i have never

gone to a city that is more from the wheel than-- familial. everybody in new orleans knows everybody. they are all related -- that is my cousin, that is my uncle. it is great. i love that. it is a walking city. it is a family city. everybody hangs out. literally everybody in new orleans knows everybody. half of them are related. you know where i am going with this. how could you have an environment that is that familial and have so many of these problems? >> you know, it is a paradox. that is one that i have yet to come to an understanding of. tavis: so you are lost. i am not the only one. >> he described it as -- as many times as my family has moved as a military brat, i have never been anywhere where people are so inviting and open. i made friends on the first two

days i am there. tavis: it is a warm, loving city. >> absolutely. this is a paradox. when you find the answer, please call me. i would love to know. tavis: what you find then, what are your greatest challenges on a day-to-day basis? what are your greatest challenges, what are your greatest obstacles to being able to turn this school around? >> i think it is going in stages. initially it was really what you saw there. building connections with kids, not just for myself but with my teachers. getting kids to trust my teachers. my teachers to trust my kids. we have grown tremendously. as the show airs, we are four months beyond that airing. and it is a totally different environment. that hurdle has we are probably mid-air over that one. as i look back, that back leg is going to cross that one. our next hurdle is building

stronger systems. we spend so much energy and effort on this part. it was important. i would not change anything at all. but i do know this -- this next opportunity for us is probably the most critical juncture, which is connecting our students with learning. and i'm seeing signs of that. our attendance from last year to this year is more than doubled. last year the average was 34% daily attendance. we are averaging between 7% and 80%. we're getting them to come to school. the beginning of the year, there were talking about their grades in letter grades. now they are talking about their grade point average and asking questions about act scores. where is the after-school program? i started that, and they did not want to come. here we are in january and february and they're going, i need help. so our next journey for me is pulling the teachers in and

giving them a greater voice by setting up some committees to tackle the big challenges but also connecting our kids to learning beyond things they've seen before. not just grades. it is about the daily questioning and the daily activities that occur in the classroom. and having them take a greater role in learning. tavis: i am glad you raised the issue of attendance because it seems like a small thing. but is the thing. if he cannot get the kids in the classroom, cannot teach them. but i am also glad you raised -- one of the things i think has to be at the top of the list of the dumbest things that are education system has done over years now is to punish kids for being truant. you are laughing already. he skipped school. we punish you by kicking you out. that is stupid to me. if you are skipping school, there is a reason. and the punishment cannot be to kick you out for playing hooky.

so what have you learned about how to get kids at least to get up in the morning and just come? half the battle is showing up. what have you learned about how to get these kids -- what is the rationale you get for them to come? >> one, in our environment, caring and the sense of direction and a sense of purpose. the second thing we do is we do not beat them up every day for not being there. we do not crack the whip. we are comfortable. they have a great impact on whether or not we are successful. we are accountable to the numbers. i used to be 15. i used to be 16. that is a good way to get me to not do what you need me to do. at the same time, we have to maintain that accountability. to give an example of some of the ways, creative ways we have gone about it. we have eset up make updates. i am not getting diplomas. i am passing people with 30 day

absences. everybody else is coming and you need to be here, too. what message am sending if i let you missed 30 days in the past year? that is not going to happen. we have assemblies with every student in that category. it was about 90 out of 400. then we invited their parents and educated them and let them know what we were going to do. four days a week, students can stay after school and to make a park. and for every three hours that you spent, you earn a day back. because there are some inherent realities that our young people face -- we have teenage mothers, teenage fathers. young people who are supporting their families. the people who are supporting themselves and homeless students. five categories that impact the child attendants' of 400. out of that 95, those five categories exist. tavis: i am blown away by the number of kids who for a variety

of reasons have to work. it reminds me of way back in the day when kids could not get to school -- my grandmother could not go to school because she was needed on the farm to work. but here we are in 2013, and that need still exists. kids cannot get to school because they are needed to make money. >> they have to make money. it is real life. you and i, for me, i remember begging my parents for a job. he would not give you 20 bucks, but he would not let you get a job. but these kids do not have the basic necessities. a lot of the kids who are working, and i found it appalling. i did not have to do this and to my late 20's. these kids are having to raise themselves. they are having to take care of themselves. they're having to be contributors. the whole new orleans scenario. it is not just new orleans. you can take this to detroit or

any major urban city and you will find the same plate. there is something inherently wrong when as a nation the greatest commodity is our children and i just have the belief when you want to examine which direction your country is headed, look at how you treat your kids. look to how they're living. and you will find where you are in the progression. tavis: the white americans who are watching our work on pbs if they think this is an inner-city problem, then what gets done? >> i have worked in rural, suburban and inner-city communities. i will tell you to some degree on any level what i am seeing here exist. what you will find is that in many of those communities is easier to hide, because there are more people will look like the norm. or who are in the front.

it's not cool to come out and share what your plight is but they exist. tavis: let me close by asking -- for you what the value is of this series "blackboard wars" being seen on tv? what is the value of the american people seeing this? >> first and foremost, young people that are portrayed in the show and these teachers. they are just like teachers and young people all over the country. i would hope that this fosters a greater dialogue about how we raise and how we care for our young people. regardless of where they are. and to take a different look at what we've value, what we say we value about education. there is more than testing. there is more that creates change in young people's lives and the countries future. tavis: dr. marvin thompson is the principle of the john mcdonogh high schoolin new

orleans. he is one of the stars a long up with these children of the series called "blackboard wars ." our report on americans education called education under arrest. at looks at the school to present situation. and what is being done to keep kids in school. it airs on march 26 at 8:00 p.m. until next time, thanks for turning in. keep the faith. ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with controversial educator michelle rhee. that is next time. we will see you then. >> there is a saying that dr.

king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminate hunger and we have work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. >> be more. pbs. pbs.