smiley. tonight a conversation with robert reich, former secretary of labor under bill clinton, about economic growth, national debt, sequestration and the baltics of austerity. -- politics of austerity. his book is just out now in paperback. also tonight, a conversation with jim wallis, an outspoken advocate for social change. the title says it all, "on gld's side." we are glad you've joined us. those conversations coming up, right now. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every

day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: just how successfully this country is pulling out of recession depends on what side of the economic divide your on. the housing market is rebounding in some areas, the stock market soaring and the latest jobs

numbers are encouraging for some, but maybe not so positive for the rest of us. sequestration is taking its toll programs from school lunches to defense contracts the long-term unemployment. joining us to talk about where we are and why we are here and where we are headed, robert reich, professor of public policy at uc-berkeley. he joins us tonight from his campus. good to have you back on this program. >> it is good to be here. tavis: the job numbers are still anemic, as i see it. how do you see it? >> this is one of the most anemic recoveries we have experienced in this country in terms of job growth and wages. wages continued to drop. i am talking about the median wage of about half of americans, even if they have jobs are in jobs that pay less than the typical job paid before the recession. ?avis: why is this so stubborn

>> i think largely because america is suffering, something that people won't talk enough about, in my view, and that is widening inequality. most of the gains of economic growth since the recession have gone to the very top, the top 1%, the top one-tenth of 1%. the middle class and everybody aspiring to join the middle class just doesn't have the purchasing power to go and keep the economy going. you cannot have a strong economy without a strong and growing middle class. tavis: i am not naive been asking this question, but louis brandeis once said you can either have the will concentrate in the hands of a few, or you can have democracy, but you cannot have both. that is becoming more and more, to your point, the way the country is run, the way the deck is stacked, and yet there is not a lot of conversation about it, what is it going to take for us to have a real conversation

about income inequality, could you cannot sustain a democracy this way long term? >> you also cannot sustain an economy long term. even the rich would do better with a smaller share of a rapidly growing economy in a society that was not as divisive as we are now, than they are now with the very large share of an economy that is barely growing because the middle class doesn't have that purchasing power, and it is increasingly divided. thatit takes, the parallel is most revealing is 1901 when we had, again, a wide divide between rich and poor prevent corruption of politics by big money, and teddy roosevelt became president and we suddenly had this great yearning that people showed, almost a kind of desperation that they needed for progressive

reform, and had progressive reform. they put pressure on politicians. they became organized and mozed an energized. to demand the kind of reforms that are necessary. i think that will happen. i don't know what the tipping point is, but we are going to have to reach a tipping. pretty soon, because we have not seen any quality to this extent in the ninus dates since the late 19th century. consistently said that poverty is threatening our democracy. americans either in or near poverty. that is to say in poverty are low-income. again, those numbers are unsustainable long term. i have argued that poverty is threatening our very democracy. what i love in part about your book is the subtitle. it is a long way of getting to this particular point. how might we advance the cause of this conversation if people saw this not just as an economic

conundrum, but something that is threatening our democracy long term? all of the way you are linking these two. people either want to talk about democracy or the economy, but the link between the two is not often a. does that make sense? >> you have to connect the dots, and that is the problem in this country. we are not connecting the dots. we are not seeing that this kind of raging in the quality and the shrinking of the middle class, the difficulties the poor are having even getting into the middle class are definitely related to the divisiveness, the bitterness that we are experiencing. the inability of congress to do much of anything. we've seen historically that times of high inequality are also times of high divisiveness. in american politics, high polarization. why is that the case? and so many americans feel frustrated and angry, when the film like they are doing everything are supposed to be doing that they cannot get

ahead, they are very susceptible to demagogues on the right or the left, who are basically pointing the finger of blame at stake road -- this scapegoats, the rich, the french, or anybody else that might be an easy target to blame, instead of looking at the system as a whole. tavis: how then in the midst of all that does austerity become the answer? >> austerity is not the answer. in fact, austerity economics of the kind where practicing right now has shown to be a huge failure. if you look what is happening in europe, most european nations are already into recession because they decided that cutting their budget deficits was more important than creating jobs. when you have a lot of unemployment, that is the worst time to cut your budget deficit, because the government has got to be the spender of last resort. this is something we understood

and learned during the 1930's, 1940's. got ther ii actually economy going. i don't want to suggest that we need another war, but that mobilization, that government spending on such a grand scale got us out of the depression and finally into prosperity. ourbudget deficit, in fact budget debt at the end of world war ii was much greater than it is now. but instead of hunkering down and cutting the budget, what we did in the 1950's was invest in our work force, invest in college education, invest in retraining. we created the interstate highway system and invested in the infrastructure. we built the middle class and helped poor people get into the middle class. it is what we are not doing now. tavis: i am frustrated consistently by this pseudo debate in washington.

words make a difference and words have meaning, and you keep using the word investment. i agree with the that in these kinds of outlays, these kinds of budget priorities would in fact be read by me and many other fellow citizens as investments, but you have folks on the right who don't read it as an investment, they read it as trying to spend your way out of the mesh or in, and you don't dig deeper hole by spending money that you don't have. you have to live within your means. you have heard this rationale time and time again. talk to me about the difference between what you see as an investment and what others on capitol hill see as throwing money down a black hole. >> is entirely different. families understand the difference. a family faced with the choice of borrowing money for a family vacation or barring money to send a kid to college understand that sending a kid to college as an investment in the future because that kid is going to earn more. he is going to be more

productive and more of a contributor to society. taking a family vacation doesn't do anything. we ought to see the budget in that way. there are things in that budget that are the equivalent of taking a vacation. nice to do, not necessary. we have huge amounts of corporate welfare, bailout's, we have subsidies going to be corporations, to agriculture, to the pharmaceutical industry. we have a giant defense industry. but in terms of productive investment, in terms of making the nation more productive in the future, there is nothing better than education, including early childhood education, access to college education for many of our children who cannot afford it. better roads, better bridges, better ports, better sewers. all of this bill of our productive capacity for the future. there is a world of difference between the two kinds of spending. tavis: what are we to make of

sequestration at this point? congress could not unaware resulted do anything the year ago. now that we are into sequestration they are starting to walk it back, at least on certain projects and not on others. how do the american people read what this equation is or is not going to be in the coming weeks and months? >> quite frankly, i think most americans don't really know what sequestration is. it is a complicated word that causes the eyes to glaze over, which actually happens. we are cutting programs for the most vulnerable people in our society and for the lower middle class. programs having to do with education and job training, nutrition assistance for the port and the middle-class and working-class, women, infants, and children, head start programs. all of these things that are actually helping or would otherwise help the poor and lower middle-class become more

productive citizens, we are basically cutting all of these things out. i the same token, if you have some middle-class or upper middle-class people get inconvenience that the airport, and congress has of course, those people should not have to deal with sequestration and we should not have air traffic controllers who are being cut. we've got to save the whole ball of wax. sequestration right now makes no sense of all. it is dangerous and is why the economy is not creating as many jobs as we should be creating. tavis: to read more about the solutions to the financial quagmire we find ourselves in, pick up a copy of his new book, now out in paperback. the book is called "beyond outrage, what has gone wrong with our economy and our democracy and how to fix it." thanks for your insights. the conversation up next with jim wallis. stay with us.

tavis: jim wallis, who heads the group sojourners has never shied away from controversy, insisting that faith and politics should go hand in hand, after taking a sabbatical to reflect his priorities. he has written a new text called "on god's side." jim wallis, good to have you back on this program. once a sabbatical? the needed to take -- why sabbatical? >> i need to take a break and i got up every morning and had some quiet and some exercise and i read and wrote all day. it was more and more depressing , the vitriol, the polarization,

the kind of anger, even hatred. we have lost this an idea called the common good, which goes back centuries. we've got to regain that somehow. that is why i wrote the book. tavis: who is primarily responsible for advancing this notion of common good in our society? >> to be honest, i think we are. tavis: hoon is weak? >> the common good comes last washington, d.c. we've got to make choices in our lives. it was really millions of decisions that people made that made the civil rights movement succeed in come to washington. our decisions for the common good create a social movement that may change possible. so yes, i want to hold politicians accountable. democrats calmer but republicans in the white house, i try to push real hard. i am telling them -- they are

like people with their fingers up in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. we have to change the wind if we are going to change washington. tavis: so you are talking about the demos. i try to figure out how that works in a contemporary moment, when most of that demos, if i read the surveys and polls correctly, the majority of that demos things that washington is broken, dysfunctional, does not have much trust in those institutions that once had trust and faith in. i am just trying to figure out where the momentum to generate the movement that you referenced imam ago, where does that come from? you don't get a movement without some momentum. >> that is the right question. i am doing 18 cities, 40 of -- 40 events, and what i am hearing is just what you were saying. they are skeptical about washington. cynicism is a buffer against our

commitment. john lewis and i were in birmingham last week for a symposium on the anniversary of dr. king's letter from birmingham jail, 50 years. at thei got to speak opening of that and john talked about what it takes -- he was almost killed in selma. it change the wind, and we had a of voting rights act five months after that, not the five-year jump that john talked about. it is a matter of us deciding what we are going to do. but i think cynicism is a dangerous thing, particularly for secure people. hats off to you and your brother cornell. in this country, one of every six americans is hungry. the highest poverty rate in 50 years. they are cynical, that all have

the wherewithal, so how we act not cynically but responsibly and change washington? that's got to happen from outside. immigration is one form where it is happening, not from within. it is happening from outside. the faith movement has been game changer and all that because we are finally bringing attention to 11 million vulnerable people. what most of us are up against, those of us who fundamentally want to change the dysfunction that has run amok in washington. list,ith cynicism on that with skepticism on that list, i think what tops all that is money. >> exactly. tavis: so how is it particularly on this side of citizens united and the republicans haven't done anything about it. the democrats, mr. obama, have not done anything about it.

they participated in the cycle this time around. >> what struck me most was how, watching the election, held the czechs have replaced all the balances in our public life. chedcks harborplace the balances in our public life. there is a whole chapter called redeeming democracy. white was at first was landed men got to vote. that was it. and then all white men. finally, all white women. not until 1965 did african- americans get to vote, and now south africans, nelson mandela -- but do we think about one person, one vote? we we have three pharmaceutical lobbyists for every member in congress. the just white votes will not be enough anymore. the demographic that runs the

country has not changed, not even close. so how we change the demographic, not just election results? i think the new generation all over the country is a great blessing, but they no money has to be changed. if we don't change that, we will not get very much done. from yourl me more perspective about this coming clash between the folks who run the country, that is to say the money interest, and those who make up the demos? this is the most multicultural, multiracial, multiethnic america ever. , thisare certain patterns demographic time bomb, but the residual event, the shrapnel from that explosion is not going

to be felt for years to come now. talk about appear clash between the monied elite to run the country and the demos. >> let me be very specific. to break the power of money over politics, we'll all be living in a democracy. it is a plutocracy, not a democracy. a couple of weeks ago we had replanted religious symbols for all those who died from gun crosses, crescents, and stars. .e had to plant 3,264 it was a powerful visual image. we had 90% of the american people, 90% favored background checks, and we have lost it in the senate. because the money from the gun lobby's comes from gun

manufacturers, i am going to call these guy gunrunners. gunrunners order democracy in washington. people are really upset about that. theiren should bury parents, not the other where around. pastors, our vocation is to bury older congregants, not teenagers. something has gone wrong. parents and pastors long term may change this. washington is bought and sold. that is not hyperbole, that is political fact. social movements are what change. this book is about how we can make personal decisions in our lives, our families, our neighborhoods, and that bge even washington has to deal with the winds of change. tavis: your response to the following. my sense is that parents are

more engaged and outraged, that parents are more activist these days than it pastors. the goal these days is to pastor a mega church in nagin tillis of burke, give your television ministry off the ground, but there are not any martin kings. there has been no growth of that kind of prophetic, progressive weakness, because everybody wants to do as i said a moment ago. i see parents much more engaged on these questions today than i see pastors in gauge. >> you will recall that dr. king said the church should be not a thermometer but a thermostat. and we have a lot of thermometer churches, which reflect the culture. the younger generation, they want to be thermostat. the pastors, clergy, we had them on the mall with us.

they are tired of talking about the second amendment. you think about the straw sale and the trafficking in the background checks would have helped that. i am finding a new generation of young believers, some of them are the none of the above. they still believe in god, just not religion, for the reasons you are suggesting. when people do and say the things that our faith says we should say and do, two things happen. it surprises them and then it attracts them. jesus this book will -- said in the second amendment, love your neighbor as yourself. that is the foundation for the common good. s get that. the above the young people want to give their lives for the common good. we are at a time now where we are looking away from washington

to change washington. it will have to be a challenge for parents and pastors of a new generation who want to make a difference. i meet them all the time out on the street. come and be part of the conversation. they are doing the job in chicago where we have lost more people to gun violence than in afghanistan in a year. i think a new generation -- highview inspired the common good, and then how do you apply it -- how do you inspire the common good and then how do you apply it? the role of government to our household life, to how the diversity in america cannot so much be managed, it is fundamentally in the scriptures, it is the attention of god -- intention of god that there be a diverse creation to be creative. this is what our asset is. the beloved community welcomes

all the tribes, and that's what it does. behind montgomery in selma, there was a vision for a beloved community. tavis: the new book is called " on god's side, what religion forbids and the public has not learned about serving." good to have you on the program. that is our show for tonight. thanks for watching. until next time, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with carol burnett about her new book which celebrates her daughter. that is next time. we will see you then. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only

halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.

hello and welcome to this is us. i'm becka king reed. this week we're experiencing the rich history of san jose. right now we're in the heart of the city at the sight of the first state capital. san jose was founded in 1777 and is the oldest settlement in the golden state. today we're going to find out what makes san jose one of the most fascinating cities in california. we'll also meet a revolutionary biologists who's one with the dolphins. an astronaut who took flight aboard the discovery. and one of california's most famous rugby coaches. we have some great stories to share and it