tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. have and to time, we bart on conversations about the achievement gap in america, but lets discuss is the opportunity gap that is ice a leading citizens, a gap that is especially grievous or young, black men. tonight, a conversation with cortlan wickliff. at 22, graduating from harvard law school. plus, patty griffin, a singer- songwriter who has just released an album called "american kid," which features back of singing from her partner, robert plant.

we are glad you could join us for those conversations, coming up right now. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only about halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. so often these days, the

media focuses on negative stereotypes on black men, rather giving a nuanced view. it always brings me pleasure to address this issue head on. i have known cortlan wickliff since he was just 10 years old. at 15, entered rice university to become the youngest in one field, and he is about to get his law degree in a matter of weeks from harvard. me why, hedo not ask is going back to texas in them to get a ph.d. in engineering. i welcome my young friend to this program. first of all, congratulations. >> thank you. and thank you for having me. tavis: it has been quite a journey for me to have met you when you were 10 and follow you all of these years. on may 30, your graduation. i thought i could get you to come out here and say

congratulations here. it is clear, a degree from rice, our board law, going back to get the ph.d. in engineering. how did that happen to you? >> well, for me, it has always been about bowls. one of the goals i set for myself early on is i wanted to own and start a biomedical company, and so when i was figuring out what that have looked like, my mom sat me down and said, "other people you have done that to grow and i thought that was not enough. a ph.d., that is good, but i love the law. since you told me to stop doing it without a license, let me go and get this license i keep hearing about. i have been saying i was going to do it for so long, i am glad i was able to follow through.

tavis: why engineering proved >> well, those were the people got to be the most exciting things to me. my mom, of course, an engineer. took things apart, and i used to get in trouble for taking things apart, and at that time, i did not have the skill to put them back together. apart our i took television set and put it back together again, and it was fixed, so she was happy that i took apart a few things. tavis: you mentor a lot of people. i want to come back to that. on an interview, in you are paying it forward by mentoring other individuals. in this country, across-the- board, students and students of color, and across the board, americans have a problem. it is not that we are not teaching it, it is that we do

students achieving as they should it. these programs are being supported by major companies across the country to try to get more kids into the pipeline. what say you about them considering this pipeline? and why are we having trouble giving young people to enter it? >> it is actually the responsibility of people in my age group, the young engineers. we have to make it accessible. it is hard for somebody to go to a manager and understand that pathway to get there, and also, a lot of things that engineers do, people do them all of the time. it is just that people do not realize they are doing them. when i was younger, we would have things break around the house. the cable would be wobbly. we would identify the problem and find a solution. but if you focus on the high

level questions, you can get a disconnect among students, so you demystify it and show them what the engineering process is and get them to apply it to everyday life. tavis: dr. king. the greatest american, i believe, this country has ever produced. he went at 15. you went to rise 6 at 15. at 15.ice give me an idea of your doing that as a 15-year-old. >> designed to stand out. meet allited to get to of these people. you got to get exposed to so many different things. the biggest thing to me is i had to remind people of my age because i was regularly in situations. for instance, i got a job

time, and because of my they did -- my resume, not know about my age. they were not supposed to hire someone under 17. they were a bit surprised by that. and so, that was actually the only challenge i face. it was because i have a lot of grounding, and i was exposed to higher education at a young age, so it felt normal to me. i was comfortable. tavis: you did rice. there were a lot of schools you could have gone too. he wanted to have a background so you could run the company. i get that part. but of all of the law school's you could have gone to, why harford? harvard is harvard. course,eason why is, of harvard is harvard, and when i was younger asking, what's the best lost all i can go to so i can really be the best at running this company, mom told

me harvard, and i said, ok, that is the law school i had to go to. tavis: that is a very important question. to the extent you have to be successful, asking the right questions. what is the best out there? >> yes, i think that is really important. i do not want to say that the best in the number one ranked or being some abstract idea, but really the best. i think a lot of times, people do not ask that question. jimmy, going to rice undergrad, that was the best for me. there was family. it was a close, tight-knit campus. it was the best school for me. i think that was the question i also asked about going to harvard, is that the best school for me as well as the best so i can get to my goals. harvard is a wonderful school. they have a lot a great

profrs things that sets them apart as they bring in some talented people are really willing to mentor students and take time out of their schedules to help you succeed, so one of the most valuable experiences i got is that harvard allows you to work on startup businesses, and there were mentoring in how to love start of companies get off the ground. tavis: so going to harvard around 19. did you ever feel intimidated or over your head when you got there? >> ok, i have to give a shout out to rice again. their bioengineer and program beat me up so much that there was really nothing so intimidating after the all- nighters i had to pull. is it is awill send really wonderful realization when you realize how great the student body is, and i thought if i could not handle it, i knew somebody else who could handle it and show me out, so the come

moderate was just wonderful. tavis: i have always believed that one of the most the the the id and villages of going to these big ivy league schools, not just a high quality education you get, but the contact you make. people in your classroom at harvard law are people you know are going to be running the world, tell me about those relationships that you will be able to call upon for the rest of your life. >> the big thing in those relationships, which i kind of took from our relationship is that you always bring something to the table. making sure i am therefore people and that people are there for me. i was really happy to see how down-to-earth the student body was. just like me. we have cookouts, barbeques. it was wonderful. and it is really nice that no matter where you go, people are people. tavis: you in

this conversation about demystifying these places that just frightened and scared and intimidate people, and over the laws being and harvard school, you had some people go to class with you. what was the purpose of that? >> it is really easy for me to say, "you can do it, too." it is different when you sit in the classroom and say, "i understand what the professor is saying." i brought them in in the middle of the semester to show them that they will not be here tomorrow, and they were not here yesterday, but they can get the material. i even had one of my high mentees, and he had a question, and i raise my hand, and the professors said, "great

question." people think they are somehow not getting something, or they cannot be right, and just showing them that, no, you got it. you can be here. you can do this. tavis: you were at rice, and he went to harvard law school. you were gifted and talented and happened to be in a black body. about this achievement gap, this opportunity gap, where people of color are concerned. >> well, i think the problem and the answer is on the stage. on other stages, they do not a positive role models, and here, you do. pushing for a positive black role model, you can show people what you can do. if all you see on television is criminals, this is on the news today, wat you're going to

believe is your maximum capability, so for me, i was blessed that i got to interact with some young black professionals at an early age. this is the option laid out before me. i do not of any of the one but to be like them, so i think going forward, we can positively affect the achievement gap if we put forth a positive images and not just emphasize the negative. the audienceother, cannot see her, but she is never too far from her baby, and i love your mother because she is the one who brought you to see me when you were just 10 at one of the book signings, and i will never forget it as long as i live, but your mother has been supportive. >> truth be told, she is not only supportive of me, but she is supportive of everyone around us. all of the cousins, they can count on her being there for something positive.

going to regionals. for me, she taught me it is not just about your professional responsibilities, so as a lawyer going forward, as an engineer, i am going to have some professional responsibilities, but regardless of those professional responsibilities, and point of personal responsibilities. i can take them on and make sure i am on my way back to houston and that i can pick up the phone and talk to some people who are trying to follow in my footsteps or doing something big. for me, it is always about i want you doing something big. i am really enamored. i am really fascinated by the idea that if i can help you, you can use me as the shoulder to stand on when you do something out there. tavis: that is what i love this kid. you are not a kid. i love this young man. take a look at this base. look at this base. of you are going to see it

again. you're going to hear the name cortlan wickliff, now on his way to texas a&m to get a degree in engineering. before you leave, i will not be there on the 30th. an envelope with something in it. you cannot open it until may 30. whatever you do, do not loseif l stop payment. number two, this is a collector's item. this is the 10th anniversary of our show. i know you long enough. our 2000 episode, and just for the staff, i had this custom made. it has the logo on the front, right here, and on the back, tavis 10. one for you. >> thank you. and you have it in rice colors. i am very happy about that. tavis: thank you. coming up, our conversation with patty griffin.

griffin's mostly lyrical style is called americana, but there is the range of heafter w. to aa gospel cd, she went personal album entitled "american kid," which she dedicates to her father, who died. here is a tribute to the underground railroad. she sings this with her partner, robert plant. ♪

tavis: tell me more about how that track came to be. >> i got asked to write a song for a friend of mine producing a young band, and he was looking for songs for them. that this sort of a groove i had been working on, and i thought i would just write a song around it for them. i thought it would be right for them, but they did not dig it. tavis: yes. >> oh i had it, and i decided to keep it. tavis: i am glad you did. it is a nice tribute.

so how does it feel how do you process, how did you not take personally being asked to write something for someone, in you write it, and they do not feel it? i guess it is not a personal thing if they do not like it. you write a song, and they say, "thank you, but no thank you." how do you processed it? >> it does not bother me. it is so personal. it is very personal. you are to love what singing. tavis: but, obviously, it is the case that you can write something for someone else, it not work, and you can still relate to it enough to do it yourself. >> usually, i write something that moves me. that story moves me, and when i was studying for the gospel record, we studied some old tiny field holler type of the lyrics, and there were some lyrics i

used in that song, and it is such an incredible story, the underground railroad, the things not aeople did, and it is very often told story. tavis: i was going to say, it is not a story that gets told often, but i am glad you did it. saidproject inspires, as i earlier, it was inspired by your father and your relationship with your father, the sab loss of your father. tell me about your dad. guy. was a little irish his parents were from ireland. he grew up in boston. he was just a little scrapper. he is probably about 5 feet, 8 inches, and shrugged down to about 5 feet, four inches. he just lived a crazy life. he was a real seeker. he was one of those guys born in

the 1920's in boston. his parents were servants, he lived in the depression. he did the d-day invasion and came back home to be an orphan. he had this crazy life. on thed up in maine, canadian border, where he met my mother, and then proceeded to have seven children in seven years, and here i am, no. 7. i guess there are a million lives that are that amazing, but and i wanted to, just for my own benefit, i wanted to dig into thinking about him, him thinking about his life, and he was not able to -- there were some stories that he was not able to complete towards the end of his life, so

i just made stuff up, and i got to know him, i think, better that way. tavis: are there things -- i am just curious here. are there things musically that you want to or find that you can say to your dad or about your dad that doesn't always come so easily with conversation? >> oh, yes. tavis: does that make sense? >> yes. tavis: tell me about it. >> i wrote one before he passed away. he was really suffering, blind and deaf. wasas a big reader, and he always this intellect, and he lost a lot of brainpower in the end. he was really suffering and was really angry a lot of the time. i wrote that song for him. i never played it for him, but

it did help me to say something to him. i am going to miss you when you are gone. i know you don't believe that, in the line. tavis: when you do something that was inspired by something that was so personal for you, what is the hope for how the audience relates, how the audience interprets and rebels and a project like this? >> i am at a point in my life where people are starting to say goodbye. it is just a natural part of your life. i just hope that somehow there tosome place in the heart maybe help in that part of their lives. about thel me more

collaboration, musically, with robert plant. >> on this record? >> -- tavis: yes. >> we co wrote one of the songs, which i do not usually do. making things up at sound checks. "ohio," he is such a brilliant band leader, organizer, when i had that in a certain shape, it just was not working, and i played it for him, and he said, oh, well, just do this and do this and do this, and you are done." it took him about five minutes to come up with the idea, and it made it happen. tavis: if i were to ask you to name the song on your that is the most fun, you would say what?

there is a song called "get marie." there is a pgr my french canadian grandparents that was taken moments after they were married, and my grandmother has got this look on her face like wow, this is probably a really bad idea. grandfather is a very handsome, lumberjack type thing, and he is leery, like he cannot wait to get his hands on her, and she told this story, and they had a pretty crazy relationship, but i always thought when you grow up around the family stories, it had this little framework of tragedy, but i never really framed it in another way. i never saw the point of view of

the sense of humor with my grandfather, so i decided to write this song about him. he could not wait to get his hands on her. you had to get married back then to do that. tavis: yes, not so much these days. the new project from patty griffin is called "american kid ," and there is a robert plant collaboration on there that i think you will want to check out. that is our show for tonight. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with love,er expert, dr. susan an economist dr. peter blair. we will see you next time. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right

thing. we know that we are only about halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. you. thank you. music ♪)

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